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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 12:15:03 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5181
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To expect someone to say what each person believes he should say in order to clarify to everyone's satisfaction isn't even reasonable.
IOW, "this is a work of fiction" is enough of an explanation.
_____________________________
Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you.
Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 1:05:33 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5603
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quote:
ORIGINAL: desertgirl
... and one of the books I read was before I was saved, so please stop implying that unbelievers are unable to discern fiction from God's Truth.  Just because one is an unbeliever does not mean that they are incapable to discerning what is or isn't God's Word. You are making an unfair, and imo untrue, judgment of people.
1 Corinthians 2:14 would disagree
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
_____________________________
Thanksgiving dinners take eighteen hours to prepare.
They are consumed in twelve minutes.
Half-times take twelve minutes.
This is not coincidence.
~Erma Bombeck
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 1:43:41 PM
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phylumlepidoptera
Posts: 27
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quote:
ORIGINAL: desertgirl
To expect someone to say what each person believes he should say in order to clarify to everyone's satisfaction isn't even reasonable.
IOW, "this is a work of fiction" is enough of an explanation.
Maybe for you...not necessarily for a new convert.
_____________________________
"The only closed systems in the universe are hardened hearts and darkened minds." Scott Becker, Valley of the Shadow
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 1:52:20 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 8033
Joined: 1/25/2008
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Someone gave an example of how "part truths" are more dangerous than full out lies.
If you look at a clock and the actual time is 4:57 you could say it's 5:00 but it's not. But it's so close to 5:00 that the extra 3 minutes don't really matter. Sure, you could be slightly vague and say, "Almost 5:00" or be specific and say, "3 till".
5:00 is not the actual time but it's so close that it appears to be.
To the untrained eye this book is close enough to the truth that it appears to be. To the person who only has a limited knowlege of the Trinity could be swept away in the 'close enough'ness about it.
To be honest, when I read it I couldn't sit down and tell you all of the specific things wrong with this book that have been listed in this thread, but I could tell you a few. To me that was enough to make me want to stay away from the book forever, and to warn anyone else around me, believer or not, to stay away.
_____________________________
When I've shown you that I just don't care
When I'm throwing punches in the air
When I'm broken down and I can't stand
Will you be strong enough to be my man?
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 2:04:23 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5181
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
quote:
ORIGINAL: desertgirl
... and one of the books I read was before I was saved, so please stop implying that unbelievers are unable to discern fiction from God's Truth. Just because one is an unbeliever does not mean that they are incapable to discerning what is or isn't God's Word. You are making an unfair, and imo untrue, judgment of people.
1 Corinthians 2:14 would disagree
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
An unsaved person is capable of reading the Bible and understanding that it is God’s Word. They need the Holy Spirit to understand the Scriptures on a spiritual level (and even then some are not able to understand until God decides they are ready), but lack of the Holy Spirit does not mean a person cannot recognize God’s Word. I certainly recognized His Word prior to being saved, I didn’t understand it on a spiritual level, but being a nonbeliever didn’t mean I was incapable of recognizing it for what it was. I take the attitude that others also possess enough intellect to tell that something is holy, whether or not they understand it is something altogether different.
The reason I am passionate about people not poo-pooing such fictional books is because it was reading a work of fiction that talked about God that caused me to want to know more about Him and to get a Bible and start reading … and that was the first step before I was saved.
I firmly believe that God is more than capable of meeting people at whatever level they are at. He doesn’t expect them to reach a certain point in their lives, or read only certain books, or attend only certain churches, or hang out only with certain people … He is much bigger and greater than that! Prior to becoming a believer, I was perfectly capable of discerning what fiction was and I was able to recognize what the Truth was (as I said, recognizing Truth and understanding Truth are not the same), and I guess I give people enough credit to have the common sense and intellect to do the same.
_____________________________
Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you.
Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 2:11:21 PM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 128
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quote:
I think the problem is, and yes, I've read it, that although most people realize it is a fictional story they believe this is the truth of Christianity. THe author, who professes to be a Christian I believe, must believe that is what is true of Christianity. Why would a CHristian present a view of God that he knows is heretical? As far as I know he has not said "I am a CHristian but this book does not accurately portray the God of the Bible or who I believe Him to be."
I totally agree with what you wrote and that I put in bold letters.
I have read it thoroughly, although the Spirit of God that dwells within me kept warning me not to. I felt like I was forcing myself to sit through something evil. I only read it because I was going to hear the author speak and wanted to know what he was talking about.
Mr. Young no longer professes to be a Christian. His two partners, who were pastors, have also left the church.
When I heard him speak in person he presented the book as Fiction, but also as a true description of God and the Trinity. He said that he wanted to help people in a weekend make the same journey that it took him 40 years to make - to removed the "features of his Dad off the face of God". Now that is because he suffered child abuse at school because his Dad sent him to a poor school in some foreign country - forget the name of it.
He also said that he admitted to having an affair with his wife and walked down a railroad track with a gun trying to decided which was worse - shooting himself or facing the wrath of his wife. He also said that he wrote the book as "penance" at the demands of his wife.
His life is one thing, and I am sure effected the writings of the book and his logic. But leaving the church and blaming God for everything bad that has happened in his life definitely explains the heresies and blasphemies in the book.
Not all Christians and non-Christians have the wisdom and strength to recognize un-truths about the Bible. This is proven by the response that the book has received and the letters that the author has received from thousands and thousands of people who have told him that they found the True God through his book. It is now being published in 14 languages.
Do you not call that dangerous and just plain ole' scary??? How can someone find the True and Living God through a book full of heresies and blasphemies? It would be like finding Jesus by watching the movie 'Poitergist". (sp?)
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 2:11:52 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5603
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: desertgirl
The reason I am passionate about people not poo-pooing such fictional books is because it was reading a work of fiction that talked about God that caused me to want to know more about Him and to get a Bible and start reading … and that was the first step before I was saved.
I would say it was the Holy Spirit, not the book.
 Giving depraved, sinful people credit for recognizing the word of God?
Fortunately, this book is not the word of God.
_____________________________
Thanksgiving dinners take eighteen hours to prepare.
They are consumed in twelve minutes.
Half-times take twelve minutes.
This is not coincidence.
~Erma Bombeck
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 2:18:31 PM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 128
Joined: 6/17/2009
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quote:
The reason I am passionate about people not poo-pooing such fictional books is because it was reading a work of fiction that talked about God that caused me to want to know more about Him and to get a Bible and start reading … and that was the first step before I was saved.
You are an unusual and wise person, plus the Holy Spirit was leading you into the truth even before you accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior.
Even born-again Christians are being deceived by this book. It's is dangerous and I would never, ever recommend an unsaved person read it. I wouldn't recommend that a Christian read it because it's a total waste of their time.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 2:28:11 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5181
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
quote:
ORIGINAL: desertgirl
The reason I am passionate about people not poo-pooing such fictional books is because it was reading a work of fiction that talked about God that caused me to want to know more about Him and to get a Bible and start reading … and that was the first step before I was saved.
I would say it was the Holy Spirit, not the book.
Giving depraved, sinful people credit for recognizing the word of God?
Fortunately, this book is not the word of God.
First, you just implied that prior to becoming a believer I was incapable of recognizing the Word of God. That is not true.
And, yes, it was the Holy Spirit that lead me to Him, please don't put words in my mouth by implying that I said otherwise. And, btw, we are all depraved, sinful people. I recognize that about myself and am a believer. I certainly hope other believers do as well. To do otherwise is, well, a sin. And just to clarify things, I did not say or indicate or imply that The Shack was the Word of God. (Just wanted to clarify since you seem inclined to put words in my mouth. Please don't do that.)
doink ... have you ALWAYS been saved? Did you not understand that the Bible was the Word of God before you were saved? I did. And I don't put it beyond the normal unbeliever to understand it either. Do you think it's not possible?
demons also believe, and shudder James 2:19
tsk tsk tsk ... shame on those demons
_____________________________
Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you.
Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 2:31:42 PM
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poetessfree
Posts: 569
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quote:
ORIGINAL: desertgirl
quote:
People need to make a stand for the truth, or I am afraid that they will answer to God for leading people astray.
First, this sounds like you are encouraging censorship ... and that's a whole other topic unto itself.
God has allowed us all free will to make our own decisions. I have read the book of my own free will, I am a believer, and I certainly don't believe that having read this book is going to cause me to go to hell. I have a brain and am perfectly capable of understanding that something is a piece of fiction. It seems to me that most of the people in this discussion who are vehemently against people reading this book, some of whom haven't even read the book, and IMO, if you aren't going to read a book, please don't bother giving a critique ... you are basing your opinions upon the opinions of others, which is not a particularly intelligent thing to do ... if others say the book is really great and recommend reading it, who's to say who is right and who is wrong? It all really boils down to nothing more than personal opinion. I don't understand why everyone is getting so bent on a piece of fiction. And yes, I read Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons and enjoyed them as well. And once again, I have the intellect to understand that these are works of fiction ... and one of the books I read was before I was saved, so please stop implying that unbelievers are unable to discern fiction from God's Truth. Just because one is an unbeliever does not mean that they are incapable to discerning what is or isn't God's Word. You are making an unfair, and imo untrue, judgment of people.
Secondly, yes, people who lead others away are indeed going to answer to God. Of that I have no doubt.
I've read to my disgust and displeasure, the shack, and I stand by what I wrote previously. This is just me but as far as dan brown, I don't see how any child of God would even want to read a book written by an author who clearly doesn't acknowledge, doesn't honor, doesn't glorify or even respect the God of Israel, the One and True Creator. That is like reading a book written by a child of the devil. In dan brown's own faithless words:
ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN?
Yes. Interestingly, if you ask three people what it means to be Christian, you will get three different answers. Some feel being baptized is sufficient. Others feel you must accept the Bible as immutable historical fact. Still others require a belief that all those who do not accept Christ as their personal savior are doomed to hell. Faith is a continuum, and we each fall on that line where we may. By attempting to rigidly classify ethereal concepts like faith, we end up debating semantics to the point where we entirely miss the obvious–that is, that we are all trying to decipher life's big mysteries, and we're each following our own paths of enlightenment. I consider myself a student of many religions. The more I learn, the more questions I have. For me, the spiritual quest will be a life-long work in progress.- Source: The Da Vinci Code - FAQs Official Website of Dan Brown Last accessed online, March 28, 2006
This confusion will abound more & more as swift talking, charming, "entertainment only", self-proclaimed believers in Christ lead others on the path of "enlightenment", or in other words, down the wide path which leads to hell.
Not everyone walks your walk, desertgirl. You say that you are okay reading those kinds of works. Well, others may be affected by the load of inaccuracies & untruths and be led to worship and follow other faiths based on what they read or what was recommended from others to read. They may take every word to be true. Just because you don't, doesn't mean everyone won't. There are different people, with different minds and how they grasp and take hold of things varies from person to person. The BIBLE is true and to add to it is blasphemy says the Lord Jesus in Revelations. Even under the guise of "its only fiction" is not fooling anybody but themselves. Praying that people will open their eyes and "see" what is really going on behind the scenes. Let us wake up! And be alert to all tactics of the enemy and be armoured to the hilt. For the sake of our children and our children's children in Jesus name, amen!
_____________________________
The Sum of us is greater than all of our parts
Maya Angelou
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 2:52:24 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5181
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Curious ... if the Holy Spirit prompted me while reading a fictional book, is it so hard to believe that the Holy Spirit is capable of reaching others through The Shack?
Are we trying to limit God because of our opinions?
Before words are thrown into my mouth for making such a comment (*gasp*), I am not saying I would recommend this book to someone to introduce them to God. What I am saying is that this book certainly has the possibility of providing an avenue for the Holy Spirit to work.
_____________________________
Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you.
Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 3:29:47 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5181
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I was doing nothing more than clarifying myself because I felt I was being misunderstood and that my comments were being misrepresented and taken as meaning something other than what I was actually saying. It's only appropriate that I stand up and explaining what I mean. I was feeling personally attacked for believing that this book is not some horrible evil book that is going to send readers down the slipperly slope to hades.
I'm sorry if you have an issue with that.
_____________________________
Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you.
Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 3:38:20 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5603
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
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My issue is only with the book.
_____________________________
Thanksgiving dinners take eighteen hours to prepare.
They are consumed in twelve minutes.
Half-times take twelve minutes.
This is not coincidence.
~Erma Bombeck
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 4:17:16 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5181
Joined: 5/19/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
My issue is only with the book.
My issue is with the book too. And I don't think it's a horrible evil book.
_____________________________
Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you.
Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 5:52:23 PM
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makarizo
Posts: 2524
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
Giving depraved, sinful people credit for recognizing the word of God?
Fortunately, this book is not the word of God.
are you talking about the shack, or about the left behind books?
I read the shack I read the shack a while ago, it did nothing to increase or decrease my faith, didn't inspire of uninspire me, wasn't offended, a couple of eye rolling spots in the book, I read if for entertainment, nothing more than that. wasn't looking for some hidden bible code..... no book burning parties, leave the swastikas in the drawer.
If anyone would ask me, I would tell them I enjoyed it, and they should read it.
_____________________________
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 6:42:46 PM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 128
Joined: 6/17/2009
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quote:
If anyone would ask me, I would tell them I enjoyed it, and they should read it.
I will pray for you so that God will enlighten your mind and keep you from recommending a book full of heresies and blaphemies to anyone. It is a dangerous weapon used by the Devil to deceive multiples of people.
If ONE unsaved person finds the True and Living God and understands the realness of the Trinity through reading The Shack, I would dare say that they are ONE in a MILLION.
The book is a spawn of the Devil and will deceive even the very elect if possible.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 7:36:37 PM
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makarizo
Posts: 2524
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrannyofSix
The book is a spawn of the Devil.
there is a flaw in your finger pointing.....
if you were a tv set, i would change the channel right at that point.
In Act 17, did Paul stand on the hill and declare the power of satan over it?
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 7:37:55 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4173
Joined: 4/11/2005
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That's a bit different, but there is a nice conversation about Mars Hill going on down in Theo. Look for a thread about Rick Warren and Muslim convention.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 8:13:08 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: desertgirl
quote:
ORIGINAL: phylumlepidoptera
quote:
ORIGINAL: desertgirl
To expect someone to say what each person believes he should say in order to clarify to everyone's satisfaction isn't even reasonable.
IOW, "this is a work of fiction" is enough of an explanation.
Maybe for you...not necessarily for a new convert.
I just truly have no issue understanding that fiction means ...... not real. I've read the book I can't understand where anyone would think this was some real honest book explaining God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
Do people really have a hard time understanding that it's not real? That it's not the Bible? That these are fictional characters? Maybe the problem is I'm giving people credit for having common sense. I don't know, maybe I have too much. 
Unfortunately, this is a true statement.
People will believe anything. Especially when that anything has a lot of hype around it. This is quite obvious with all the other false religions and the books that support them.
Though this book is fiction, people are still thinking after reading it that the God in this book, is the real God.
So that is where the problem lies with this book.
Fiction or not, many , many people have a hard time separating fiction from truth. Especially when they are searching. It is so easy to be led astray.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
http://followtheleader-mat1624.blogspot.com/
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 9:13:46 PM
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Reform_Dave
Posts: 320
Joined: 6/14/2009
From: Where the mountains touch the sky.
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: desertgirl
quote:
If ONE unsaved person
Very interesting ......... would that ONE person not be worth it?
That one in a million person would have been saved in spite of the book, not because of it.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/23/2009 9:28:32 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5181
Joined: 5/19/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Reform_Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: desertgirl
quote:
If ONE unsaved person
Very interesting ......... would that ONE person not be worth it?
That one in a million person would have been saved in spite of the book, not because of it.
Maybe, maybe not. The bottom line is, you don't know, and therefore you cannot make that statement as a fact. It is nothing more than your opinion.
_____________________________
Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you.
Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.
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