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RE: "The Shack" - 6/25/2009 6:45:47 PM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 128
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quote:
Wonder_Woman
quote:
The problem with this way of thinking is that there are thousands, if not millions, of people by now who have read this book and believe it to be a truthful representation of God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost
Do you have proof of this alleged fact? Do you have actual numbers of people? A list of names perhaps? Where are you getting this information?
I heard the author speak myself and he said this very thing. He gave actual numbers of testimonies to this according to emails that he and his partners receive on a daily basis. I did not write down the numbers, but wish that I could have recorded his speech. I did take notes, but could not write as fast as he was talking. He credits himself with writing a book that has taught all these people the truth about God. He stated that he wanted people to learn the truth about God in a weekend, instead of 40 years that it took him to learn. I wish you had been there to hear him say these things himself.
I wouldn't give anyone credit for influencing so many people if the author themselves hadn't given themselves the credit first.
quote:
quote:
It's too late for many after they read this book
If this statement contained a speck of truth, what you are saying is that it's too late for pretty much everyone who is not already a believer because of what's been introduced into their minds through various avenues of media. This tells me that you lack hope for unbelievers.
Please don't make such unfactual statements as if they were fact. Unless you have actual statistical data to back up this statement, it's nothing more than gibberish pulled out of thin air. Let's stick with truth, because without Truth, we as believers have nothing.
It would be a wise investment of our time and effort to pray that those who read this book understand that the fictional character of god in the book is not the True God. It's not only the Gaithers that need prayer to see the Truth, it's all who do not know it. Wouldn't you agree?
I do not lack hope for the unbelievers, but I have a great deal of concern that they will believe the first thing that is introduced to them that gives them hope (be it false hope) and a solution to problems/griefs/hurt/troubles/etc. (even though a totally false solution).
Again, I heard the author speak about the book being translated into 14 languages and people from all over the world sending him email and letters testifying that this is the first "Gospel" that they have heard in their lives and they found Christ and/or God through his book. I heard these words from the author's mouth, but again, I couldn't write fast enough to take note of the statistics that he freely gave.
I am not making "unfactual statements" or speaking "gibberish pulled out of thin air" as you are accusing me of doing.
Have you heard the author speak in person? Have you researched this book? Have you researched the author's life? Have you compare the Holy Word of God with the heresies written in the book The Shack?
I have.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/26/2009 12:54:26 PM
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angel_wings13
Posts: 2868
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My hairdresser was telling me about this book recently. I'm definitely going to have to go out and get a copy.
_____________________________
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
John 8:7
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/26/2009 1:21:00 PM
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Wonder_Woman
Posts: 57
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Granny, the backup support that you have presented for your opinion gives you much more credibility than the earlier posts you made on this subject.
It's important to support our opinions, whether we are presenting Biblical Truth or arguing against lies of the world. Most unbelievers, in my experience, will tune out a person who is "preaching the evils of this world" to them, while they will engage in a conversation with someone presenting Truth in a gentle fashion and with credible support for their opinions.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/26/2009 1:28:08 PM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 128
Joined: 6/17/2009
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quote:
I'm definitely going to have to go out and get a copy.
WHY?
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/26/2009 4:36:56 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5581
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From: The higher lowcountry
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true story from this morning at the grocery store...
A lady standing in line was babbling about The Shack and how she was going to go back to church as a result. I asked her what was in the book that impacted her so deeply...and she continued to state one untruth after another based on her reading of this book.
I didn't correct her...mostly cause I don't know her at all...and secondly, cause she was so fired up about God's "humanity" she had lost sight that he was in fact, GOD.
We talked a few more minutes. But, she was completely convinced in the God of The Shack over and above the God of the bible.
It changed my opinion...I no longer have anything to say about this book. But I have plenty to pray for about the people reading the book. 
We should all agree to do the same. People enjoy reading about a God with human characteristics rather than The Holy and Magestic King of Kings who holds his children to a biblical standard.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/26/2009 4:44:45 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 2587
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
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quote:
People enjoy reading about a God with human characteristics rather than The Holy and Magestic King of Kings who holds his children to a biblical standard.
Yes and this is exactly what's being taught at the churches we've been to over the last few years. No meniton of holiness or reverance at all.
_____________________________
Deb
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/26/2009 5:05:22 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5168
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quote:
But I have plenty to pray for about the people reading the book
I couldn't agree more. We can't force anyone to make this choice or that just because we said so, but we can most certainly pray for them.
As my siggy says:
It's good to listen to people's opinions, but one should never do
or not do something based solely on other people's opinions
Sometimes the best lessons in life come from choices we made ourselves.
_____________________________
11/21 is the 11th Annual National Survivors of Suicide Day
Please remember to lift those in prayer who have lost a loved one to suicide
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/27/2009 11:37:26 AM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1813
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I think Young's book confronts some very important topics that the traditional church has gotten wrong. And people have rejected God and the church because of man's wrongness/teaching.
These topics are not that God is really a black woman.
Or that the Holy Spirit is a hari krishna guru (?). Come now.
No, it's topics like relationship, judgment, fear, religion, repentance, authority and submission that have been addressed that are speaking to people. The longing for Jesus is within people and they are finding truth through the characters in The Shack, or something closer to the truth, than they have found in church or the other teachings of men that they have known.
That is a very sad thing, isn't it? Yes, much of the church has gone away from teaching the truth. And many who think they are being taught truth are being taught a 'version of truth'. But we don't recognize the filter through which we see and understand and instead think we are right.
How many of us have been in churches who were teaching wrongly? God is able to teach us truth on His own. He's a big God.
If The Shack is spurring people on to truly know Jesus, I say amen. If we seek Him, we will find Him.
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/27/2009 1:19:15 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 2587
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
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quote:
No, it's topics like relationship, judgment, fear, religion, repentance, authority and submission that have been addressed that are speaking to people. The longing for Jesus is within people and they are finding truth through the characters in The Shack, or something closer to the truth, than they have found in church or the other teachings of men that they have known.
What? I asked this before, but where's the proof that people are coming to Jesus? I'm not at all saying that this can't happen because as Paul told us of people were preaching the Gospel for the wrong reasons yet God was still bringing them to Him. BUT and I mean a big BUT, you can't find truth in a lie. I think we forget that God brings people to Him and not us. 
_____________________________
Deb
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/27/2009 2:34:50 PM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 128
Joined: 6/17/2009
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quote:
No, it's topics like relationship, judgment, fear, religion, repentance, authority and submission that have been addressed that are speaking to people. The longing for Jesus is within people and they are finding truth through the characters in The Shack, or something closer to the truth, than they have found in church or the other teachings of men that they have known.
That is a very sad thing, isn't it? Yes, much of the church has gone away from teaching the truth. And many who think they are being taught truth are being taught a 'version of truth'. But we don't recognize the filter through which we see and understand and instead think we are right.
How many of us have been in churches who were teaching wrongly? God is able to teach us truth on His own. He's a big God.
If The Shack is spurring people on to truly know Jesus, I say amen. If we seek Him, we will find Him.
People will NOT find the truth in that book because there is no truth in it. They will NOT find the real God and Jesus of the Bible because they are NOT in that book.
They may find something to relieve their longings because people are searching for help - desperate for help. But if they want to find the true and living God, and Jesus Christ His son, they need to read THE BIBLE, not some fictional book full of heresy and blasphemy. People have "itching ears" and are ready to believe whatever sounds good and easy. They reject the Word of God because it teaches to give up sin and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. They have to lay aside sin and they don't want to do that. They want to have their cake and eat it too. The teachings in that book could easily convince people that they have found the Real God, but they have been mightedly deceived.
As far as being taught the truth in churches, I agree that many are wrong. But people need to study the Word of God to be able to know the truth and reject the untruths. The Bible is the answer. Why do people go to other books for answers? Beats me. Every answer that I have ever needed is in the Bible, the Holy Word of God.
< Message edited by GrannyofSix -- 6/27/2009 2:41:20 PM >
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/27/2009 2:40:53 PM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 128
Joined: 6/17/2009
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quote:
What? I asked this before, but where's the proof that people are coming to Jesus? I'm not at all saying that this can't happen because as Paul told us of people were preaching the Gospel for the wrong reasons yet God was still bringing them to Him. BUT and I mean a big BUT, you can't find truth in a lie. I think we forget that God brings people to Him and not us.
There IS NO proof that people are coming to Jesus through that book. The author says they are and some people think they are, but if they believe in the God and Jesus of that book, then they are NOT finding the REAL God and Jesus of the Bible.
Paul said that people were preaching the Gospel for the wrong reasons - but they were preaching THE GOSPEL - the Truth! This book does not teach/preach the Gospel or the Truth.
You are exactly right - the truth can not be found in a lie - the entire book is a LIE - FALSEHOOD - FICTION. The ENTIRE book, not just the first five chapters of the storyline.
This is where the problem is with the book. People recognize the storyline in the first five chapters is Fiction. Then they get wrapped up in the lies of the book once Mack gets to the Shack and thereafter take it as the truth. It isn't. THE WHOLE BOOK IS A LIE and not to be believed.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/27/2009 4:56:01 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1813
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quote:
As far as being taught the truth in churches, I agree that many are wrong. But people need to study the Word of God to be able to know the truth and reject the untruths. The Bible is the answer. Why do people go to other books for answers? Beats me. Every answer that I have ever needed is in the Bible, the Holy Word of God.
But what about us?
We see/understand things very differently.
I love Jesus and have been a disciple of His for over forty years. I have studied God's word. I have been a part of at least two Bible studies each week for more than sixteen years. I know the NT well enough to find just about any verse without using a concordance. I spend time in God's word daily. My Bible is usually found open on my kitchen counter all day long.
Yet you and I disagree. I think Jesus, the true Jesus, is very much a part of this book. Is every word or thought God's truth? No. But Young has communicated so many needful thoughts that the traditional church has sorely missed or misrepresented.
There is something greater here. How else do I explain it?
And BTW, the story line was inconsequential to me.
_____________________________
Liveloved
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Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/27/2009 5:06:20 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 2587
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
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quote:
I think Jesus, the true Jesus, is very much a part of this book.
Would you show us where?
_____________________________
Deb
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/27/2009 8:18:51 PM
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Reform_Dave
Posts: 317
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From: Where the mountains touch the sky.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
I think Jesus, the true Jesus, is very much a part of this book.
Your bona fides aside, you are dead wrong. There is nothing in all of your years of study that could have informed you that God is unconcerned with His reputation, quite the contrary. A study of God's Holiness, and how He views His own Holiness should dispel any notions of that. God can bless the gospel even if preached out of ill motive, but He wont bless an altered representation of Himself. If you stand by your statement then you must also believe that Christ is a part of all the other books and literature where God is misrepresented, like the book of mormon, and the watchtower to name a couple.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/29/2009 5:15:48 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1813
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
I think Jesus, the true Jesus, is very much a part of this book.
Would you show us where?
He is throughout this book but I will give an example or two.
On page 147 in the chapter on Wade in the Water, Jesus and Mack are having a discussion on sin and repentance. Jesus explains the separation sin created between God and man and Mack asks, "Is there any way out of this?"
Jesus answers, "It is so simple, but never easy for you. By re-turning. By turning back to me. By giving up your ways of power and manipulation and just come back to me." Jesus sounded like he was pleading. "Women, in general, will find it difficult to turn from a man and stop demanding that he meets their needs, provides security, and protects their identity, and return to me. Men, in general, find it very hard to turn from the works of their hands, their own quests for power and security and significance, and return to me."
or on page 149 where Jesus says, "Being my follower is not trying to 'be like Jesus', it means for your independence to be killed. I came to give you life, real life, my life. We will come and live our life inside of you, so that you begin to see with our eyes, and hear with our ears, and touch with our hands, and think as we do. But, we will never force that union on you. If you want to do your thing, have at it. Time is on our side."
Jesus spoke and taught in parables and Young's story is a parable as well. There is much truth in it. But it is His story. Does Young see and understand God perfectly? No. Do you or I? No. But he is willing to risk sharing in story form about the God he has come to know and love. If you or I dared to share in this way, others would pounce on and criticize us as well. But does that mean we shouldn't try?
You and I are not exact representations of God as Jesus is. We are vessels, the containers that hold God, but there is some of 'us' still there. If God did not trust His image to be shared by imperfect people, we would not have Him living inside of us. I'm thankful He's willing. I'm glad Young was willing to risk sharing his imperfect work as well. 
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/29/2009 8:45:50 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1813
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quote:
He wont bless an altered representation of Himself
He blesses me. And I am thankful.
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/29/2009 9:00:57 PM
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Reform_Dave
Posts: 317
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From: Where the mountains touch the sky.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
He wont bless an altered representation of Himself
He blesses me. And I am thankful.
You are not an altered representation of God. You are made in the image of the God of the bible, not the god of the shack.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/29/2009 9:49:01 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5168
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
He blesses me. And I am thankful.
God blesses me too liveloved. I am thankful for those who are willing to share a small glimpse into how they perceive Him through their own personal relationship with Him.
For those who are not aware, there is a discussion in M&E titled "How much freedom should an author take with God/Jesus/etc.?"
_____________________________
11/21 is the 11th Annual National Survivors of Suicide Day
Please remember to lift those in prayer who have lost a loved one to suicide
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/30/2009 3:06:51 AM
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quietly50
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A friend of mine was reading "The Shack" at work recently and loaned it to me when she was done. I have to say that I really liked the book. I have read some of the posts on this thread denouncing the theology and crying foul at the fact the author portrays God as a black woman. What I think is sad is that everyone else thinks they know exactly what God is like so can tell us exactly what and who God is. I find it comforting to think of a God who is near and very involved in my life. This is supported in Scripture, I believe. Certainly this book can't be taken as canon Scripture, but give the author a break! C.S. Lewis wrote stuff that is questionable to me in theology department, but he is considered a giant among theologians. This book speaks to the heart and not so much the head, and in these days of slick evangelism and superficial relationships, I find this very refreshing.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/30/2009 9:27:55 AM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 128
Joined: 6/17/2009
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I don't have a problem with the author of The Shack portraying God as a Black woman specifically, but it did come across as totally ridiculous. The same as the Holy Ghost being a type of Oriental Tinkerbell.
What I DID have a problem with is all the heresies and blasphemies in the book that people, who are ignorant of the Truth of the Bible, will believe as a true representation of scripture. Yes, the book says it is Fiction, but millions of people are now testifying to having found the True God and Jesus through this book, which is impossible.
Folks, just stick to the Bible. Everything you need and every answer you seek is in the ONE BOOK. No need to clutter your mind up with junk, which is a nice word to describe this book.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/30/2009 10:26:46 AM
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Focusing
Posts: 5168
Joined: 5/19/2007
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quote:
millions of people are now testifying to having found the True God and Jesus through this book
Perhaps some, but I think "millions" is quite an embellishment of the truth.
Yes, let's please stick with the truth. And the TRUTH.
quote:
Everything you need and every answer you seek is in the ONE BOOK. No need to clutter your mind up with junk, which is a nice word to describe this book.
I believe most Christians read more than just the Bible. You read this book, didn't you? Why would you read anything other than the Bible?
IMO, if one keeps up with what's going on in the world (because while we are not OF the world, we are most certainly IN the world), it is an avenue we can use to introduce and discuss the real God. Keeping oneself in a shell and out of touch with what's going on in the world is not what we need to be doing. Knowing the Truth is vitally important, and it's important to understand that while believers may choose to read various books, it is not an indication that we agree with and support or advocate what an author is saying.
_____________________________
11/21 is the 11th Annual National Survivors of Suicide Day
Please remember to lift those in prayer who have lost a loved one to suicide
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/30/2009 10:43:25 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4161
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I read The Shack because a dear Christian friend read it and gushed about it and swore to me that she had never understood the Trinity before and now she did. At the time, I had heard of The Shack only because it kept showing up in my Kindle best-seller list. I honestly didn't know anything about it. I looked it up on Wikipedia and saw the subject matter. Before I could read it, I heard the same thing (understanding the Trinity) from a friend who is a new Christian. That spurred me on to go ahead and get it.
It took just a few chapters before I realized not only was the book terribly written, but it also did not show a theologically sound picture of the Trinity. A couple more chapters and there were red flags all over the place about how God was portrayed, not to mention the Holy Spirit. I had the least problem with Jesus (and I'm not talking about appearance here), but even some of the dialog with that character is misleading at best.
I would never never use this book to introduce Christianity to anyone and I've steered a good number of people away from it.
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RE: "The Shack" - 6/30/2009 10:47:37 AM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1813
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quote:
ORIGINAL: quietly50
A friend of mine was reading "The Shack" at work recently and loaned it to me when she was done. I have to say that I really liked the book. I have read some of the posts on this thread denouncing the theology and crying foul at the fact the author portrays God as a black woman. What I think is sad is that everyone else thinks they know exactly what God is like so can tell us exactly what and who God is. I find it comforting to think of a God who is near and very involved in my life. This is supported in Scripture, I believe. Certainly this book can't be taken as canon Scripture, but give the author a break! C.S. Lewis wrote stuff that is questionable to me in theology department, but he is considered a giant among theologians. This book speaks to the heart and not so much the head, and in these days of slick evangelism and superficial relationships, I find this very refreshing.
Right on, quietly50.
Relationship can be very frightening. And that is one of the topics that Young hits head on in The Shack and this is the very topic that disturbs many. That is also why Jesus disturbed many. In fact, this is what Jesus said about this topic.
You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you have have life. John 5:39-40
or in His discussion with the Jews "I know that you are Abraham's offspring; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you." John 37
Knowing His word, being able to 'use' His word, or quote it is not the same as His word having a place in us or our willingness to come to Him. We would do well to ask what Jesus means when He says these things and seek to understand. It is very much a head and heart thing.
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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