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RE: "The Shack" - 9/29/2008 8:37:56 PM
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DWinMadison
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Hey all...newbie here. I'm fairly conservative, but I read The Shack and thoroughly enjoyed it. I understand why the emergent crowd identifies with it...basically, one of the messages is the "Jesus wasn't religious." I don't this it's a replacement or even an "addition" to the Bible, but it made me think. You have to know that Mr. Young wrote this book as an allegory for his children. It reminded me of how I felt when I read This Present Darkness and other books by Frank Peretti several years ago. If you take the stance of not reading it because it's not scriptural, would you give the same advice to someone about reading Pilgrim's Progress? It's not "scriptural" either.
One last thought... I'd say read it because a lot, and I mean A LOT of non-Christians and people struggling with their faith and church in general ARE reading it, and it could give you a great in-road to encourage or share Christ with them. At least if you have issues with it, you could explain to a younger brother or sister the REAL story of the Trinity.
Blessings. And, sorry to be so wordy on an initital post.
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/2/2008 11:54:56 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4179
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<sigh> I had no intention of reading this book, but a friend who is a quasi-new-Christian is reading it and says she finally "understands the Trinity." Also, I work on a college campus and I've come across at least a dozen people who are reading it. It was also recommended to my mother.
I had heard the book was heretical, albeit fiction, but if people I know are reading it, especially people who are unbelievers and new believers, I feel like I should know what they're talking about. I haven't read any of this thread yet. I'll be back after I'm done.
_____________________________
I do it for the joy it brings, because I'm a joyful girl, because the world owes me nothing, and we owe each other the world.
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/4/2008 12:27:56 AM
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Liveloved
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I read The Shack and am planning on rereading it soon. I think it is absolutely excellent. Young says some very profound and truthful things---things that I think we need to listen to and learn from. When I get back to rereading it, I plan on posting some of the 'profound' thoughts and perhaps we can discuss specifics.
Anyway I think every mature believer should read it---and be challenged! 
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/4/2008 9:43:07 AM
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Tea-Tea
Posts: 415
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From: Mr. Sippi
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One thing I really like about the book is it points us to relationship, not religion. And there's a HUGE difference between the two. The Bible does the same thing so it was encouraging that this book backed that up. Unfortunately, a lot of churches don't teach that.
_____________________________
~Tammy~
"If people can be taught to hate, they can be taught to love."
spoken by Betsie ten Boom in The Hiding Place
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/5/2008 3:43:46 PM
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TammyIsBlessed
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Very true Tammy!
_____________________________
I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do. Helen Keller
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/5/2008 9:56:16 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1763
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quote:
I think therein lies the rub. I think books like this are least likely to be read by mature believers and most likely to be read by new believers.
I think what you have said is true, stellaluna. And it is not a good reflection on the 'mature'. Or those who consider themselves to be 'mature'. Those who truly are mature can benefit greatly from a book of this type. Thinking deeply is not an attribute of many in the church today. Yet deep calls to deep.
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/6/2008 9:51:26 AM
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Tea-Tea
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Well, I'm a part of two Christian book clubs and both have chosen this book. Both clubs are full of mature Christians (one is a "younger" sect and one is an "older" one). The only people I know who are reading the book ARE mature Christians.
Of course, I know I'm speaking from just a very small corner of my world.
What would be so wrong with people reading this book who are, in fact new believers? It's fiction. It's not presented as gospel...it's fiction.
_____________________________
~Tammy~
"If people can be taught to hate, they can be taught to love."
spoken by Betsie ten Boom in The Hiding Place
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/6/2008 9:23:44 PM
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bettymackII
Posts: 1537
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stellaluna I was just going to tell the posters who have read the book, "The Shack" that I appreciate their thoughts about this book. I want to tell you that
I appreciate what you have stated and I appreciate your skills of explaining yourself better than I can.
I know, that a fiction book can be be Biblically sound and I believe the
author should write his novel(s) with that in mind.
It is hard for us to put God and the Trinity in a neat box in which we all can see and fully understand. God is showing in His Word terms that we finite minds can get a little glimpse of Him and the rest of the Trinity.
And the Bible view of the Trinity is awesome to me!!
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/6/2008 11:26:54 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
I'm not sure what it is with books like this. Yes, it is fiction. You're definitely right there. But I know a lot of people (my corner of the world!) who tend to blur the line between fiction and theology when it comes to a lot of Christian fiction, not just this book. I'm about halfway through the book now (and they're lucky I kept reading because the prologue was terribly written ) and I can see the appeal for someone who is a new Christian.
However...I don't think it's that great a book and if you knew me better you'd know I'm the kind of person that thinks Christians don't read the bible enough and the population in general doesn't read anything enough. I think people do need to think deeper, but if a Christian needs a fictional account of God being a black woman to grow in their walk, to me that's a problem.
It's like when The Prayer of Jabez came out. I had two different friends say they never knew how to pray before that. I was like, "Um...the bible tells us how to pray in quite a bit of detail."
Do I make any sense at all?
Yes, you make sense. And I agree with you re: the prayer of Jabez. But that really is about people wanting formulas, easy answers, and simplistic ways of getting to God or for using God to get what they want, etc. That is an oversimplification, of course, but they are being driven by a selfish motive rather than one rooted in the desire to know God---and that is the problem.
As far as The Shack. . . no one should 'need' a black woman to be God. And I will admit that I initially was somewhat shocked by the representations of the Trinity. But I set aside my 'first thoughts' and instead of going with my first thoughts, I let myself be drawn into what the author was saying, seeking the bigger picture, the meaning he was presenting. And by doing that, I was able to really appreciate the things he was saying. And he is right on about many important things---and those are aspects of today's 'church' that I think are in serious trouble.
I want to reread it and respond specifically. But right now I'm in the middle of two books, The Book Thief and The Rising Tide, and both are lengthy and I need to finish them before rereading The Shack.
But when I do, I plan on posting specific statements from the book that I think warrant discussion.
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/6/2008 11:46:34 PM
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TammyIsBlessed
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The part I don't like is that both the forward and the epilogue make it seem like it's NOT fiction.
_____________________________
I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do. Helen Keller
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/7/2008 9:57:58 AM
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Tea-Tea
Posts: 415
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From: Mr. Sippi
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Stella, yes you do make sense. However, if something fiction or non-fiction (such as the Prayer of Jabez) leads us to a deeper walk, better understanding, prayer life, and studying the Bible, isn't that okay? God uses many tools in His toolbox to help us. Yes, the Bible is the MOST important book but other books (and movies, people, etc.) can help us too. I do see how it could be misused, especially by immature Christians.
As for God being a black woman...that wasn't the point of the entire book. The reason for God being a black woman was spelled out in the book--it was to get Mack out of thinking in a small box. It was to show him how nuturing God is. It was to show him that God isn't male or female and we shouldn't assume he's a white old guy. It was to show him that God shows himself differently to people. Just like when God became a man towards the end of the book--because Mack needed a father figure that day. I admit when I first read that God was portrayed as a black woman, I almost threw the book across the room.  Glad I didn't...I would have missed a blessing.
Tammy, I see what you mean about the prologue and epilogue. I guess since I went into it knowing it was fiction, it didn't bother me. But I didn't think about others reading it and taking it for a true story.
There were a couple of things I disagreed with and felt like they were not scriptural but it was still very much worth my time and I still gained spiritual insight from it and I'll still recommend it to others.
_____________________________
~Tammy~
"If people can be taught to hate, they can be taught to love."
spoken by Betsie ten Boom in The Hiding Place
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/7/2008 11:57:56 PM
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TammyIsBlessed
Posts: 625
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tea-Tea
I admit when I first read that God was portrayed as a black woman, I almost threw the book across the room.
LOL
_____________________________
I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do. Helen Keller
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/8/2008 10:32:16 AM
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floydette
Posts: 811
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tea-Tea
I admit when I first read that God was portrayed as a black woman, I almost threw the book across the room.
TT,
Do you know what sparked that initial reaction?
Cool that you worked through it and were able to accept the invitation to unpack God!
_____________________________
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” Henri Bergson
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/9/2008 10:12:10 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4179
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Okay, I finished last night, so I'm going to read the rest of the thread today and then post.
_____________________________
I do it for the joy it brings, because I'm a joyful girl, because the world owes me nothing, and we owe each other the world.
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/9/2008 10:42:12 AM
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stellaluna
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All right, I'm ready.
I think this book is a marginally-interesting murder mystery mixed in with a lot of preaching. I didn't personally find it to be particularly enlightening. I think there is a whole lot of speculation. I have some problems with the hierarchy stuff that someone else mentioned earlier--Jesus being the head of the church, God having no anger or wrath, etc. As far as God being a black woman and the Holy Spirit being named Sarayu...it's kind of dumb, but I don't have a problem with it as long as people aren't getting the idea that God is our Holy Mother. I haven't heard anyone say that yet.
I found out yesterday another friend who is a new Christian has read this and she was gushing about it to my husband. I'm sorry, but this worries me. I have a hard time convincing Christian friends that reading the bible is important; they simply don't read it. But books like this do blur the line, even if everyone in this thread firmly understands it is fiction. I do not believe that the general population reading this sees the distinction and it puts forth enough theology that it can be confusing to someone not firmly rooted in scripture.
I also have serious problems with the end of the book. I was reading it on Kindle, so I have no idea what appears at the end of the book in print. At the end of my book is a few pages on something called The Missy Project. It encourages people who have read the book to go above and beyond to make sure other people read it. I guess it saves money on marketing, but I have never NEVER read a book that wanted me to do the following:
* post a promotional jpg on your website
* give the book to friends, even strangers, as a gift ("They not only get a compelling page-turning thrill ride, but also a magnificent glimpse into the nature of God that is not often presented in our culture.")
* if you have a website or blog, consider sharing a bit about the book and how it touched your life. Don’t give away the plot, but recommend that they read it as well and link to http://www.theshackbook.com.
* Write a book review for your local paper, favorite magazine or website you frequent. Ask your favorite radio show or podcast to have the author on as a guest. Media people often give more consideration to the requests of their listeners than the press releases of publicists.
* If you own a shop or business, consider putting a display of these books on your counter to resell to customers. We can make books available for resale in quantities as low as 10 at wholesale rates, so that you make some money as well as have an excellent discussion-starter on your counter.
* If you know of people (authors, speakers, etc.) who have a voice to the wider culture, ask them if they would review a copy and make it some comment on it in their website, newsletters, etc.
* Buy a set of books as gifts to battered women’s shelters, prisons, rehabilitation homes and the like where people might be really encouraged by the story and its message.
* Talk about the book on email lists you’re on, forums you frequent and other places you engage other people on the Internet. Don’t make it an advertisement, but share how this book impacted your life and offer people the link to The Shack website.
I really really don't like that.
_____________________________
I do it for the joy it brings, because I'm a joyful girl, because the world owes me nothing, and we owe each other the world.
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/18/2008 9:12:22 AM
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redeemedsaint
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I am almost finished with this book and I am enjoying it. It is dealing with some of the things that I am currently going through. Some things may be questionable, but all and all it is a good read.
_____________________________
Woody
"Either your Bible is falling apart and your life is OK; or your Bible looks OK and your life is falling apart."
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/20/2008 11:00:41 AM
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ChristopherJ007
Posts: 159
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From: Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dejavuallovragain
This book is helpful as is Pagan Christianity in stripping away what ideas institutionalized Churchianty has added to Christianity over the past 1900 yrs. These books help us to get back to a relationship with God and not the "church".
I have just picked up the Shack and am reading it for myself (about five chapters into it right now). I'll let you know what I think when I'm done. (Note - I do not like nor agree with most of the 'emergent' 'theology' that is out there).
However, in regards to the book "Pagan Christianity" - this is a dangerous, heretical book that is attacking the church, and I would strongly encourage believers to stay away from it! It is poison!!
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/20/2008 11:05:37 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4179
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dejavuallovragain
This book is helpful as is Pagan Christianity in stripping away what ideas institutionalized Churchianty has added to Christianity over the past 1900 yrs. These books help us to get back to a relationship with God and not the "church".
Didn't see this before, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
_____________________________
I do it for the joy it brings, because I'm a joyful girl, because the world owes me nothing, and we owe each other the world.
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/23/2008 11:12:19 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1763
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I am now rereading The Shack and very much enjoying it the second time around as well.
For example, God says to the main character, Mack, "MacKenzie, I am neither male nor female, even though both genders are derived from my nature. If I choose to appear to you as a man or a woman, it's because I love you. For me to appear to you as a woman and suggest that you call me Papa is simply to mix metaphors, to help you keep from falling so easily back into your religious conditioning."(p. 93)
One person who was criticizing Young's book made the statement "Religious conditioning?" Is that how Mr. Young views Biblical Christianity?
I think this individual has missed the point Young is making and is out of touch with today's church. What do you think?
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/28/2008 7:06:30 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1763
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Aren't there any readers of The Shack out there?????
Let's have a discussion! LL
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/28/2008 8:13:44 PM
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ChristopherJ007
Posts: 159
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From: Canada
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I finally finished reading The Shack today... (I had a good hour long chunk to read last night while my two oldest kids, Caleb & Tori, were in drum lessons - I ordered a large double double coffee at Tim Horton's & enjoyed my Boston Cream donut while I read). Here are my thoughts:
Overall, I would say I enjoyed the book, and am glad that I stuck with it until the end. Even though I didn't initially like the idea of God portrayed as a woman, it made sense in the big picture of the story. We realize of course that God is a Spirit, and is neither male nor female, even though He has revealed Himself through the metaphor of a Father.
As a fiction book, it was an interesting look at someone's personal encounter with God, and how the Lord changed his life. I must admit that the author moved me to tears a couple of times in chapter 18 (I don't want to give too much away to those who haven't read it yet, but it was with Mack's encounter with his friend, and later with his daughter). So, it was an enjoyable journey for me, and stretched me in my thinking a little bit. :)
However, having said all of that, there were definitely a couple of concerns that I had with the book, most of which have been shared already. They are all theological in nature, and concern my understanding of God and the church.
1. I disagree with the author's comments about the relationship of the tri-unity of God on pages 121-124. Although much of the dialogue between Father, Son & Holy Spirit was refreshing and enjoyable, I did not like the ideas Young presented about the Trinity. Is there unity in the trinity? Of course. Is there relationship? Yes. But this does not negate the fact that there is order and headship - see 1 Cor. 11:3.
2. I did not like the author's conversation where the main character asks God, "Are you saying I don't have to follow the rules?" on page 203, and God says, "Yes. In Jesus you are not under any law. All things are lawful." This is a ridiculous thought, to say that it's okay for Christians to commit murder, adultery, etc. And although it is true that Christians are not required to keep the law AS A MEANS OF EARNING OUR SALVATION, those who are saved will keep the law (do good works) which are the fruit that demonstrates that they are really saved. So I definitely did not like this part of the book! And although it is true, as Young writes, that some people use the law to judge others and feel superior to them, this does not mean that the law itself is not good, which the Apostle Paul states that it IS. God gave us His commandments NOT to give us a path to salvation, but rather a pathway to being able to experience the blessed life (see Psalm 1).
There were a few other comments along the way that were eye-brow raising, but those were the two main biggies... however, as mature Christians, we realize of course (1) that this is a fiction book, and (2) that with any teaching (be they a 'fiction' book or otherwise), we must always take them back to the Scriptures to see if these things are so.
Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject... probably not a book that I would promote or give away copies of it to others, but it was an entertaining read, nonetheless...
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: "The Shack" - 10/29/2008 8:08:05 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1763
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quote:
2. I did not like the author's conversation where the main character asks God, "Are you saying I don't have to follow the rules?" on page 203, and God says, "Yes. In Jesus you are not under any law. All things are lawful." This is a ridiculous thought, to say that it's okay for Christians to commit murder, adultery, etc. And although it is true that Christians are not required to keep the law AS A MEANS OF EARNING OUR SALVATION, those who are saved will keep the law (do good works) which are the fruit that demonstrates that they are really saved. So I definitely did not like this part of the book! And although it is true, as Young writes, that some people use the law to judge others and feel superior to them, this does not mean that the law itself is not good, which the Apostle Paul states that it IS. God gave us His commandments NOT to give us a path to salvation, but rather a pathway to being able to experience the blessed life (see Psalm 1).
ChristopherJ,
Yet, this is a direct quote from I Cor 6:12 where the Apostle Paul says, "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything."
Don't we have to be careful that we don't twist the author's intent, judge by appearance, which Jesus condemns?
What I have read and heard (re: criticism of The Shack) really concerns me. The critics have done the twisting IMO and that is not Christ's way.
I'm not saying this of you---but wanting to engage in thoughtful discussion. So thanks for your comments. And please do respond. I'll check out the trinity discussion and get back to you on that as well. LL
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) and I can see the appeal for someone who is a new Christian. 
