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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 9:54:27 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
Which is one reason (not the only one, I think) -but this is also why, I think, lesbians tend to fall by the wayside when people (especially straight men) are criticizing homosexuality. When they say "homosexuality" it's often very clear that they mean "gay men." Which doesn't mean that they support lesbianism (I don't think they "technically" do -or at least not if they are Christian), just that lesbianism doesn't seem to generate the same gut level of disgust and resentment as the concept of two guys together does. Even on this forum, when asked why homosexuality is bad, people tend to fixate (when giving reasons in terms of biology) on male-male sex and not female-female sex.
Which is a cultural thing, I think. Lesbianism has never been as feared or stigmatized as male/male homosexuality has been in our culture. Many straight men enjoy the idea of two women together, even if they may not like the idea of two men together -which is why, I think, there tends to be more "bi-curious" women than there are men, just because lesbianism is often (latently or overtly) encouraged by straight guys. Considering that our culture has been controlled by straight men for the past few millennium (and largely still is), I think you all can do the math from here.
I donate blood on a regular basis. If I have had male sexual intercourse in only a single time, my blood would likely be rejected because of the risk of disease. So, there is more than an emotional component to people's problems with homosexuality.
This is a response to henny as well, because it's interesting that you bring that up given his mention of lesbians. Lesbians are least at risk for STDs and, if I recall, they tend to be excellent parents by many standards. When people talk about the dangers of homosexuality, excepting sin, most of it does not apply to lesbians, and often the inverse is the case for them.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 10:00:57 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Homosexuals and their supporters working first for tolerance, second for acceptance, and finally for normality are what has caused such backlash against them. At each step the activists have claimed that was all they were after.
But again, the same could be said of any group that falls out of the sphere of Christian acceptance. Jewish people have had to go through the same process.
quote:
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is going but it does take someone gullible to believe the homosexuals would be happy with anything less than the silencing and imprisonment of their staunchest critics. For them to achieve their ultimate goals will destroy the First Amendment as it was envisioned when it was written.
Do you feel the same way about the Anti-Defamation League? Why the fear of authoritarianism for homosexuals but not for groups that have been similarly stigmatized for similar reasons?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 10:27:17 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
I donate blood on a regular basis. If I have had male sexual intercourse in only a single time, my blood would likely be rejected because of the risk of disease. So, there is more than an emotional component to people's problems with homosexuality.
This is a response to henny as well, because it's interesting that you bring that up given his mention of lesbians. Lesbians are least at risk for STDs and, if I recall, they tend to be excellent parents by many standards. When people talk about the dangers of homosexuality, excepting sin, most of it does not apply to lesbians, and often the inverse is the case for them.
Perhaps my comment was out of context. I was not commenting on the medical dangers of lesbianism. I have no idea whether the two kinds of homosexuality are even close in regard to risk. I was not suggesting they are because I do not know. I was merely commenting on male homosexuality. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 10:31:08 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is going but it does take someone gullible to believe the homosexuals would be happy with anything less than the silencing and imprisonment of their staunchest critics. For them to achieve their ultimate goals will destroy the First Amendment as it was envisioned when it was written.
Do you feel the same way about the Anti-Defamation League? Why the fear of authoritarianism for homosexuals but not for groups that have been similarly stigmatized for similar reasons?
If I am not mistaken, there is already statutory regulation in Canada concerning people who speak against homosexuality. The fear is not imagined.
http://www.citizenlink.org/CLNews/A000007622.cfm
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 10:40:46 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is going but it does take someone gullible to believe the homosexuals would be happy with anything less than the silencing and imprisonment of their staunchest critics. For them to achieve their ultimate goals will destroy the First Amendment as it was envisioned when it was written.
Do you feel the same way about the Anti-Defamation League? Why the fear of authoritarianism for homosexuals but not for groups that have been similarly stigmatized for similar reasons?
If I am not mistaken, there is already statutory regulation in Canada concerning people who speak against homosexuality. The fear is not imagined.
http://www.citizenlink.org/CLNews/A000007622.cfm
...and in England, hate crime style legislation protects many religious groups as well. I'm not an expert on this kind of law, but I understand (perhaps wrongly) that it's illegal to fire someone in America because of a person's religion.
You may disagree with the idea of hate crime legislation in general (I recognize some good arguments against it) but these kinds of protections are pretty standard for many groups that are not Christian. This is nothing particularly new.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 10:42:10 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
I donate blood on a regular basis. If I have had male sexual intercourse in only a single time, my blood would likely be rejected because of the risk of disease. So, there is more than an emotional component to people's problems with homosexuality.
This is a response to henny as well, because it's interesting that you bring that up given his mention of lesbians. Lesbians are least at risk for STDs and, if I recall, they tend to be excellent parents by many standards. When people talk about the dangers of homosexuality, excepting sin, most of it does not apply to lesbians, and often the inverse is the case for them.
Perhaps my comment was out of context. I was not commenting on the medical dangers of lesbianism. I have no idea whether the two kinds of homosexuality are even close in regard to risk. I was not suggesting they are because I do not know. I was merely commenting on male homosexuality. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.
No, I misread you, actually. Apologies. My point stays but it doesn't really overlap with what you said.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 11:28:10 PM
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Marcus.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Homosexuals and their supporters working first for tolerance, second for acceptance, and finally for normality are what has caused such backlash against them. At each step the activists have claimed that was all they were after.
But again, the same could be said of any group that falls out of the sphere of Christian acceptance. Jewish people have had to go through the same process.
quote:
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is going but it does take someone gullible to believe the homosexuals would be happy with anything less than the silencing and imprisonment of their staunchest critics. For them to achieve their ultimate goals will destroy the First Amendment as it was envisioned when it was written.
Do you feel the same way about the Anti-Defamation League? Why the fear of authoritarianism for homosexuals but not for groups that have been similarly stigmatized for similar reasons?
The ADL isn't pushing to make something evil protected by law. Homosexuals are. The ADL isn't trying to silence its critics but the homosexual groups are. Believing a false religion isn't evil per se, just misled. Homosexuality is evil. As I mentioned in the thread, as they reach for a new level of acceptance, they become bolder. To repeat myself, there are activists waiting to apply the hate crime laws against those who speak out against them. The idea that more evil will be protected by law turns my stomach. We are moving away from a sure foundation to the whims of those absorbed by the spirit of the anti-christ.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 12:22:12 AM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Believing a false religion isn't evil per se, just misled. Homosexuality is evil.
Please justify this distinction. What makes homosexuality evil, while believers of false religions are simply misled? Homosexuals aren't misled?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 12:26:16 AM
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henny
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
The ADL isn't pushing to make something evil protected by law. Homosexuals are. The ADL isn't trying to silence its critics but the homosexual groups are. Believing a false religion isn't evil per se, just misled.
Worshiping false idols isn't a sin? Was God angry at the Israelites for erecting the golden calf simply because they were "misled"?
quote:
The idea that more evil will be protected by law turns my stomach.
Things that the Bible deems "evil" are already protected by law in this country. An individual has the right, for example, to get divorced if they so choose, even though the the Bible forbids certain types of divorce. Similarly, an individual has the right to be Hindu in this country, even though the Bible would deem this evil (as the worship of false idols).
What I don't think many Christians realize is that it would ultimately be bad for Christianity if the state started enforcing Christianity. Christianity has never flourished in theocratic societies -even within Christian theocratic societies (think of the middle ages, for example, when everything was controlled by the Catholic church).
quote:
To repeat myself, there are activists waiting to apply the hate crime laws against those who speak out against them.
I think the difference between us and Canada is the constitution. While I support most hate crimes legislation and see the need for it, I would oppose any legislation along with you that would prevent people from freedom to speak on this issue. If you, for example, want to argue that homosexuals should be put to death by the state, then I'd completely fight for your right to do so, even if I don't necessarily agree with you. But the instant you commit a terroristic act to further your agenda, then that's where we would part ways and hate crimes legislation would take over.
< Message edited by henny -- 10/24/2009 12:33:10 AM >
_____________________________
Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.
-William Blake
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 2:14:04 AM
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Marcus.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Believing a false religion isn't evil per se, just misled. Homosexuality is evil.
Please justify this distinction. What makes homosexuality evil, while believers of false religions are simply misled? Homosexuals aren't misled?
In the OT homosexuality is called an abomination and those sinning in that manner put to death. Their blood is on their own head. In the NT homosexuality is called unnatural and those committing it receive the due penalty.
This is what I get for staying up so late. I didn't get my thoughts together and I'm tired. You're right that worshipping other god(s) is evil. Yet there are examples of God calling worshippers of false gods back. Think of Jonah for one. For some reason there are more examples of God reaching out to unbelievers than homosexuals. I don't remember any in fact. I just remember that in the OT God executes judgement on the homosexual for some reason instead of mercy.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 2:29:31 AM
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Marcus.
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You don't need to be Christian to see the damage divorce brings. I'm referring to the vast majority of divorces where getting a new spouse and getting rid of the old one is the real objective.
You don't need to be Christian but merely honest to know and admit abortion kills a child.
But being Christian makes me feel sorry for those who do these things because they will be judged and without repentance of these sins they will be condemned.
The hate crimes legislation will be expanded over time as hostility to religious belief expands especially among the elites.
It's too late. I'll have to finish this tomorrow.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 7:17:41 AM
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McFatty
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Woah! It was just a question. Lots of conclusions being drawn from this question. Perhaps I used the wrong word then? I don't think I've gotten personal with my questions. I'm sorry if you've taken it that way. Perhaps "intensity" would be a better word. Would you argue against x other sin with the same intensity? That sort of thing.
Well, you have to admit "crusade/crusading" is pretty strong terminology. You seem to reading "intensity" into my words. I understand that people cannot see me behind my words. I tend to be rather direct and as clear as I can without being boring. If that sounds "intense," I have no idea why.
To answer your question, other people's sins is not generally my favorite topic. I have started a couple of threads on alcoholism in the past year, mainly because of my experiences at work. I suppose the answer is no. I was drawn into this particular topic mainly because it comes up in the news a lot.
Fair enough. I have heard this sin discussed, preached about, etc probably more than any other single sin in recent years. It has just gotten to the point where it's almost being shoved down my throat by so many Christians, even though I've never been tempted by this particular sin, that I guess I've almost become numb to it, so it doesn't have the shock for me that other sins do. This is certainly not a good thing, unless, perhaps the Lord is using this numbness to call my attention to helping people who suffer from other temptations. Do you follow?
_____________________________
"O LORD, You have pleaded my soul's cause; You have redeemed my life." - Lamentations 3:58
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 9:03:37 AM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Fair enough. I have heard this sin discussed, preached about, etc probably more than any other single sin in recent years. It has just gotten to the point where it's almost being shoved down my throat by so many Christians, even though I've never been tempted by this particular sin, that I guess I've almost become numb to it, so it doesn't have the shock for me that other sins do. This is certainly not a good thing, unless, perhaps the Lord is using this numbness to call my attention to helping people who suffer from other temptations. Do you follow?
That's one way of looking at it.
I have volunteered at a telephone evangelistic ministry pretty regularly for five years until fairly recently. About twice a month I would get calls from people dealing with habitual sexual sins, sometimes including homosexual sins. Occasionally, if they had one sexual sin, they had another. IOW, they did not always discriminate between liaisons with people of the other sex. However, I cannot remember a woman switch hitting but I do remember some calls from men. I usually have recommended that they seek counseling at various ministries.
Due to some events with family members, I have come to regard homosexuality as a type of addiction. (I do not have any family members who are homosexual, just to be clear.) To be precise, I believe it is a sexual addiction. Addictions of any kind are notoriously difficult to kick. But when you add the political aspect, that it is now considered okay by the popular culture, it's getting harder.
If it is not a sin and if we do not call it a sin, there is no particular reason for a homosexual to deal with it. If we believe people can just drop it, then we are not likely to get anywhere either. Whenever a Christian calls it a sin, it is likely to provoke a reaction that we are harsh. It doesn't matter how we moderate our terms, we are going to be considered mean-spirited. If it is a sin, then God expects the homosexual to repent of it and deal with it. Christians are willing to help but the gay community has decided that they don't need to repent. It doesn't help that some Christian denominations have decided that it is not necessary.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 10/24/2009 9:09:43 AM >
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 1:42:07 PM
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McFatty
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I think we're on the same page overall. I've never called homosexual copulation anything but sinful (temptation itself is not, however). One just gets tired of the same story after a while. I suppose that's how God must feel when we keep coming back to him after doing the same wrong things.
_____________________________
"O LORD, You have pleaded my soul's cause; You have redeemed my life." - Lamentations 3:58
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 1:58:23 PM
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GrahamCracker
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I remember a friend of mine (not a close friend but a friend nonetheless) confided that he was a former homosexual. By the time I met him he had quit the homosexual lifestyle and was living with HIV. He even had one of those skin discolorations that often appear on AIDS victims. As he related to me, he explained to his mother that he had accepted Christ. He had been brought up in church and his mother was certain that he was a Christian. He told her that he had only thought he was.
He continued to have same-sex attractions but was celibate. I lost track of him when he stopped coming to our church. I suspect it was mainly health issues due to the AIDS.
With him and with others, I have always tried to be sympathetic without excusing sin. There's this big elephant in the room and do they really want to hear it again that homosexuality is a sin? My practice was to tell people on the phone that I really didn't know them but felt I need to ask questions with regard to what they knew about the spiritual life. I have told them that my questions were for my own information and not for the purpose of giving them new information unless it was to fill in a few gaps of their knowledge base.
Typically, these people would call and tell me they didn't know if they were saved. They felt if they were saved they wouldn't have these compulsions. By belief has been that Christians can and do have same sex attraction and sometimes do participate in the sin of same sex copulation (to use your term). Some churches teach that genuine Christians cannot do it for long. How long is long? I dunno but it seems to me that genuine Christians can and do behave that way for years.
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/24/2009 11:33:52 PM
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Marcus.
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"When law and morality contradict each other the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his sense of morality or losing his respect for the law." Frederick Bastiat
I was going to continue with my thoughts from last night but as I was reading the musings of a man I respect much I came across this nugget of wisdom. This sums up the problem I have with laws that protect evil and immorality. Why shouldn't we make the law mimic the moral? Then we wouldn't have these contradictions that cause such grief and outrage. God, whom we seek to emulate and grow closer to, never mixes the two.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/25/2009 1:06:36 AM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
"When law and morality contradict each other the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his sense of morality or losing his respect for the law." Frederick Bastiat
I was going to continue with my thoughts from last night but as I was reading the musings of a man I respect much I came across this nugget of wisdom. This sums up the problem I have with laws that protect evil and immorality. Why shouldn't we make the law mimic the moral? Then we wouldn't have these contradictions that cause such grief and outrage. God, whom we seek to emulate and grow closer to, never mixes the two.
So again, why not pass laws banning or preventing the recognition of non-Christian marriages? Why not ban Jews from serving in the military?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/25/2009 7:15:42 AM
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henny
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
"When law and morality contradict each other the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his sense of morality or losing his respect for the law." Frederick Bastiat
Laws only "Contradict" morality in a way that forces the citizen to "choose" when they coerce the citizen into doing something he finds immoral. So, for example, if a citizen sees divorce as immoral, yet lives in a society where divorce is legal, there's still no contradiction here, as the citizen himself can still choose to live his morality by not getting a divorce. There would be a contradiction, however if laws were passed requiring that he divorce, or laws forbidding Jews from recognizing the Sabath, or Islamic women from wearing head coverings, etc, etc.
Basing law on Christianity might resolve contradictions for a very small group of Christians, but it'll only create contradictions for everyone else (including Christians who are not members of the dominant denomination). Given that we live in a fairly diverse society, it's much better for all of us if one religion (or even one specific denomination within Christianity) doesn't start enshrining its reading of morality in the law. Which isn't to say that religion shouldn't inform the law at all (I think it's impossible that it wouldn't), just that the law should never be used as a "tool" to express or further the ends of any specific religion.
quote:
This sums up the problem I have with laws that protect evil and immorality.
As far as homosexuality goes, I don't see the contradiction. Even though gay sex is legal, there's no law which requires Christians to have gay sex. So you can live as a Christian in a state where gay sex is legal without it impinging on your right to live a moral life. Same thing with gay marriage. I'm not sure how your gay neighbors being married contradicts your right to practice Christian morality. Ditto work place protections.
_____________________________
Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.
-William Blake
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 2:51:51 AM
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rynthetyn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Believing a false religion isn't evil per se, just misled. Homosexuality is evil.
Please justify this distinction. What makes homosexuality evil, while believers of false religions are simply misled? Homosexuals aren't misled?
In the OT homosexuality is called an abomination and those sinning in that manner put to death. Their blood is on their own head. In the NT homosexuality is called unnatural and those committing it receive the due penalty.
This is what I get for staying up so late. I didn't get my thoughts together and I'm tired. You're right that worshipping other god(s) is evil. Yet there are examples of God calling worshippers of false gods back. Think of Jonah for one. For some reason there are more examples of God reaching out to unbelievers than homosexuals. I don't remember any in fact. I just remember that in the OT God executes judgement on the homosexual for some reason instead of mercy.
The OT also says that disobedient children should be put to death.
Drinking the blood of an animal was called an abomination. Any time you put gravy on your meat, you're eating animal blood.
Oh, and don't forget, the same passage in Leviticus that discusses homosexuality also says that sex with a woman while she's having her period is an abomination.
I'm not saying that homosexuality isn't sinful, but cherry picking verses is a bad way to make doctrine.
_____________________________
~.~Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines~.~
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 4:41:11 AM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rynthetyn
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Believing a false religion isn't evil per se, just misled. Homosexuality is evil.
Please justify this distinction. What makes homosexuality evil, while believers of false religions are simply misled? Homosexuals aren't misled?
In the OT homosexuality is called an abomination and those sinning in that manner put to death. Their blood is on their own head. In the NT homosexuality is called unnatural and those committing it receive the due penalty.
This is what I get for staying up so late. I didn't get my thoughts together and I'm tired. You're right that worshipping other god(s) is evil. Yet there are examples of God calling worshippers of false gods back. Think of Jonah for one. For some reason there are more examples of God reaching out to unbelievers than homosexuals. I don't remember any in fact. I just remember that in the OT God executes judgement on the homosexual for some reason instead of mercy.
The OT also says that disobedient children should be put to death.
Drinking the blood of an animal was called an abomination. Any time you put gravy on your meat, you're eating animal blood.
Oh, and don't forget, the same passage in Leviticus that discusses homosexuality also says that sex with a woman while she's having her period is an abomination.
I'm not saying that homosexuality isn't sinful, but cherry picking verses is a bad way to make doctrine.
And I'm wondering why people feel the need to make homosexuality super-special super-bad. Why feel the need to cherry-pick about it at all? Where does that impulse come from?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 6:35:38 AM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I'm not saying that homosexuality isn't sinful, but cherry picking verses is a bad way to make doctrine.
And I'm wondering why people feel the need to make homosexuality super-special super-bad. Why feel the need to cherry-pick about it at all? Where does that impulse come from?
Do you know of a pro-adultery or pro-theft lobby in America? Do you know of any teachers instructing our kids teaching our kids (either by example or overtly) that theft and adultery are okay?
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 8:38:11 AM
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TheosCentric
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Homosexuality wasn't cherry-picked out of a list of sins. They did that all of themselves by specifying that it should not be classified as a sin and/or mental disorder.
Like Larry said. If there were a pro-adultery (actually, there are advocates of this), or pro-theft, or pro-lying lobby in America, then they would be subject to the same criticism.
What if there were a lobby that wanted murder to be legalized or shoplifting to be legalized?
To show that there is no partiality with God with respect to sins, look at the following:
With regards to the law -->
1 Timothy 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
In short, Paul is saying that the law is there for the lawless to know what they are doing is wrong. Note that murderers, adulterers, and liars are all listed with homosexuality and as being contrary to sound doctrine.
With regards to those who will not inherit the kingdom -->
1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Again, homosexuality is listed with adulterers, liars, greedy, and thieves. These are people who openly practice these things. They are unrighteous. They will not inherit the kingdom.
However, Paul does say that some of the Corinthians were like this, but God saved them. This follows up on Romans 7 when Paul talks about the law existing to essentially show us how bad we are. There is nothing in us that can overcome the law, unless regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
In short, homosexuality is still wrong, according the laws of God. It will always be wrong. There is nothing one can do or say to justify the behavior of homosexuality other than it is sin akin to murder, lying, and stealing. Anyone who attempts to say otherwise is lying and is the same as a homosexual.
Can one be born a homosexual? Sure, because they have sin in their lives from birth. Can that sin be overcome? Yes, only through the blood of Jesus Christ.
Let's stop the hogwash of trying to justify sinful behavior. An active homosexual cannot be a Christian, cannot be a priest, cannot be a pastor, cannot serve in any capacity of the church. They must repent of their sin and not live as an active homosexual. They cannot continue in that sin.
Can one struggle with the sin of homosexuality? Sure, but one should not justify it as normal behavior.
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God uses our bad will to accomplish His good will. - R.C. Sproul
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 2:33:59 PM
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wunderschon
Posts: 67
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: jmjphe
Well..ask yourself, what is one of the most gratifying experiences human beings can have? If you say, in this paticular case, sex, your right.
I might disagree with your assumption here.
It ain't bad, but watching your children graduate from college, setting on the front porch watching the sun come up and praying to our Creator, and especially participation in someone coming to the knowledge of Jesus Christ is most gratifying.
Thanks
RC
That's what I was saying earlier RC, this culture has become so saturated with sex of all kinds in every arena and at younger and younger ages that it's the be-all and end-all for many lives. (OK literally it is for all lives LOL but y'all know what I meant-nope, can't even say that's true, a woman can become pregnant these days sans sex--oh my--modern science has wrought many beneficial wonders but it has also brought us into many ethical quagmires)
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For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 2:59:17 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6747
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
And I'm wondering why people feel the need to make homosexuality super-special super-bad. Why feel the need to cherry-pick about it at all? Where does that impulse come from?
This has been answered ad nausum, but I will do it one more time just for you.
Scripture, nor Christians consider homosexuality a super bad sin, and it is not cherry picked by Christians.
It is the attempt by the gay community and gay organization to force the acceptance of this sin by the populace and by the Church.
It is one the "Front Page" not by the choice of Christians, but by the choice of those practicing the sin of homosexuality.
If the sin of murder, robbery, rape, etc. was being pushed by those heatherns that practice those sins to be accepted by the society at large, and especially by the Chruch; then murder, robbery, rape, etc. would soon be subject number one.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 5:37:41 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2307
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I'm not saying that homosexuality isn't sinful, but cherry picking verses is a bad way to make doctrine.
And I'm wondering why people feel the need to make homosexuality super-special super-bad. Why feel the need to cherry-pick about it at all? Where does that impulse come from?
Do you know of a pro-adultery or pro-theft lobby in America? Do you know of any teachers instructing our kids teaching our kids (either by example or overtly) that theft and adultery are okay?
I don't. But as I said before, there are pro-Jewish lobbies in America and pro-Muslim lobbies, not to mention pro-Unitarian and pro-atheist lobbies that exist to teach people that it's okay to not be Christian. These lobbies are enormously successful and aside from the fearmongering about Muslims and atheists, not a word is said by Christians about them. Jews are, if I gauge the tone correctly, amazingly popular among the Christian right even though they don't believe in God.
Why do Christians believe that it's not okay to be gay, given their apparent lack of concern about these other groups? They can be married, be open about their explicitly non-Christian (and I would argue necessarily anti-Christian) ideas while serving in the military, and cannot be legally discriminated against in many situations. And yet Christians go after gays with a fervor. Why is this? It's as surely a sin to be a Jew as it's a sin to be a homosexual. But Christians don't care about the former. The former is politically ascendant, but Christians don't care. The Jewish lobby and groups like the ADL make criticism of Jews incredibly politically dangerous. But Christians don't care.
Comparisons are made between adultery and theft and homosexuality. Why are these comparisons invalid when talking about other groups? Being a Jew is like being a thief, isn't it? It's like being an adulterer, isn't it? Being a Jew is like being a murderer according to the logic I'm seeing here, isn't it? Is being a Jew like a murderer? If not, why not? If not, why are homosexuals like murderers but not Jews? Are Jews like rapists, as rcjames seems to imply?
< Message edited by huangshan -- 10/27/2009 5:44:42 PM >
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