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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 9:11:39 PM
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Marcus.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
"When law and morality contradict each other the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his sense of morality or losing his respect for the law." Frederick Bastiat
I was going to continue with my thoughts from last night but as I was reading the musings of a man I respect much I came across this nugget of wisdom. This sums up the problem I have with laws that protect evil and immorality. Why shouldn't we make the law mimic the moral? Then we wouldn't have these contradictions that cause such grief and outrage. God, whom we seek to emulate and grow closer to, never mixes the two.
So again, why not pass laws banning or preventing the recognition of non-Christian marriages? Why not ban Jews from serving in the military?
Simple because God didn't proscribe unbelievers from marrying or serving Israel.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 9:16:22 PM
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Marcus.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rynthetyn
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Believing a false religion isn't evil per se, just misled. Homosexuality is evil.
Please justify this distinction. What makes homosexuality evil, while believers of false religions are simply misled? Homosexuals aren't misled?
In the OT homosexuality is called an abomination and those sinning in that manner put to death. Their blood is on their own head. In the NT homosexuality is called unnatural and those committing it receive the due penalty.
This is what I get for staying up so late. I didn't get my thoughts together and I'm tired. You're right that worshipping other god(s) is evil. Yet there are examples of God calling worshippers of false gods back. Think of Jonah for one. For some reason there are more examples of God reaching out to unbelievers than homosexuals. I don't remember any in fact. I just remember that in the OT God executes judgement on the homosexual for some reason instead of mercy.
The OT also says that disobedient children should be put to death.
Drinking the blood of an animal was called an abomination. Any time you put gravy on your meat, you're eating animal blood.
Oh, and don't forget, the same passage in Leviticus that discusses homosexuality also says that sex with a woman while she's having her period is an abomination.
I'm not saying that homosexuality isn't sinful, but cherry picking verses is a bad way to make doctrine.
Who's saying that those aren't as God has called them? I wasn't cherry picking but I was a bit punchy when I posted last. If God has described something or activity as evil, it still is. Jesus did change how we are supposed to react to some of these. For example He called all foods clean to Peter not only indicating that the food was clean to eat but that all peoples were able to be saved.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 10:06:39 PM
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Marcus.
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Why do Christians believe that it's not okay to be gay, given their apparent lack of concern about these other groups?
As was mentioned earlier, God has called what homosexuals do together an abomination and that their blood is on their own heads. Other groups haven't been working overtime to usurp God's Word or twist the plain meaning. Also other groups haven't been as successful. Homosexuals are targeting our children in schools to try to negate the morality their parents are teaching them. I don't know of other groups doing this besides CAIR. I am just as vocal about CAIR, I believe all of the founding members are supporters of terrorists groups. They must be negated as well.
They can be married, be open about their explicitly non-Christian (and I would argue necessarily anti-Christian) ideas while serving in the military, and cannot be legally discriminated against in many situations. And yet Christians go after gays with a fervor. Why is this? It's as surely a sin to be a Jew as it's a sin to be a homosexual. But Christians don't care about the former. The former is politically ascendant, but Christians don't care. The Jewish lobby and groups like the ADL make criticism of Jews incredibly politically dangerous. But Christians don't care.
God didn't ban them from serving Israel or from Israel. He did order the Hebrews to stone homosexuals however.
Comparisons are made between adultery and theft and homosexuality. Why are these comparisons invalid when talking about other groups? Being a Jew is like being a thief, isn't it? It's like being an adulterer, isn't it? Being a Jew is like being a murderer according to the logic I'm seeing here, isn't it? Is being a Jew like a murderer? If not, why not? If not, why are homosexuals like murderers but not Jews? Are Jews like rapists, as rcjames seems to imply?
They are idolators as was mentioned before. God has placed homosexuals in groupings with the other sexual sins in Leviticus. In 1 Corinthians 7 God included them with a laundry list of sinners. 9 Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, 6:10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, 3 and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God. Again these other groups aren't working as tirelessly, stridently, or fervently to overturn what God has said about them. The homosexuals most certainly are. Homosexual activists look for possible court cases to use to silence critics. Only CAIR is doing that as far as I remember.
Are you advocating removing homosexuals from the groups God has placed them with? Or the judgement that awaits the unrepentant homosexual?
We are called to spread the Gospel and defend our beliefs. Sinners in other categories except for unbelievers aren't fighting the Gospel tooth and nail as the homosexuals are. That is why they are opposed so strongly.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2009 11:12:29 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Why do Christians believe that it's not okay to be gay, given their apparent lack of concern about these other groups?
As was mentioned earlier, God has called what homosexuals do together an abomination and that their blood is on their own heads. Other groups haven't been working overtime to usurp God's Word or twist the plain meaning.
Yes they absolutely have! The other groups have done exactly what gays have done, only they've been more successful, they have the protections of the U.S. government. The difference in effort these days is that gays and lesbians have not yet achieved the level of acceptance that these other sinners have already achieved. The appearance of "working overtime" is only there because the other groups have already reached the top of the hill.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Are you advocating removing homosexuals from the groups God has placed them with? Or the judgement that awaits the unrepentant homosexual?
I'm advocating some modicum of consistency of doctrine. I wonder, if Jews were as generally frowned upon as they have been in America's past today, would people be advocating the same treatment of Jews as they are of homosexuals? Again, I see all these comparisons to theft, rape, murder, shouldn't people be applying them to Jews, who strut around in public as if nothing were amiss? If these people are like the murderers and adulterers as you say, why don't I see the sentiment echoed every day? Jews have already achieved what homosexuals want to achieve, isn't that awful?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 12:18:40 AM
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Marcus.
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Same treatment?
I thought this was about defending the teaching God has left us with on homosexuality. I never thought it had to do with treatment. To be more precise, how we interact with homosexuals. We are to spread the Good News. Defend the faith. I know of very few Jews who are attacking Christianity. The ones I have heard about would be better secular Jews or ethnic Jews. I do see story after story of homosexuals attacking our belief, faith, and Christian institutions every week or so in the news. There seems to be an increasing attack on private citizens trying to live out their faith in the public eye. Muslim groups have just joined this recently to some degree.
I was under the impression you wanted any defense of God's Word on homosexuality to be silenced. Along with a couple of other posters. I thought you were just skirting the TOS was all. If I am mistaken , my apologies.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 4:11:49 AM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Same treatment?
I thought this was about defending the teaching God has left us with on homosexuality. I never thought it had to do with treatment. To be more precise, how we interact with homosexuals. We are to spread the Good News. Defend the faith. I know of very few Jews who are attacking Christianity. The ones I have heard about would be better secular Jews or ethnic Jews.
By necessity, any non-Christian religion is inherently anti-Christian. And I have been askinf this question for the past two pages: it somehow seems to be more warranted to treat people of a different religion with softer rhetoric and policy than gay people, be they Christian or otherwise. Comparing homosexuality to murder doesn't seem to address this, as it seems like you'd have to compare Judaism or Buddhism to murder as well.
I'm not advocating the acceptability of either Judaism or homosexuality, but I would like to understand the cause of the varied treatments Jews and homosexuals receive from Christians.
quote:
I do see story after story of homosexuals attacking our belief, faith, and Christian institutions every week or so in the news. There seems to be an increasing attack on private citizens trying to live out their faith in the public eye. Muslim groups have just joined this recently to some degree.
How is this any different from Jews attacking John Hagee for his religious views?
And now let me repeat myself: if Jews were as generally frowned upon as they have been in America's past today, would people be advocating the same treatment of Jews as they are of homosexuals? Again, I see all these comparisons to theft, rape, murder, shouldn't people be applying them to Jews, who strut around in public as if nothing were amiss? If these people are like the murderers and adulterers as you say, why don't I see the sentiment echoed every day? Jews have already achieved what homosexuals want to achieve, isn't that awful?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 6:46:27 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
And now let me repeat myself: if Jews were as generally frowned upon as they have been in America's past today, would people be advocating the same treatment of Jews as they are of homosexuals? Again, I see all these comparisons to theft, rape, murder, shouldn't people be applying them to Jews, who strut around in public as if nothing were amiss? If these people are like the murderers and adulterers as you say, why don't I see the sentiment echoed every day? Jews have already achieved what homosexuals want to achieve, isn't that awful?
This thread is about homosexuality. If you want to know about Christians' belief that other religions are sinful, why not check out one of another dozen or so threads concerning faith and doctrine? The other issues are scattered among other threads. If we discuss homosexuality, we have to discuss it here. If you think that means there's an agenda, you're entitled to your opinion. That doesn't make it valid. It merely makes it your opinion.
On other threads, there are discussions about cults, Mormons, doctrines of baptism, the necessity of good works, sanctification and so forth.
Some Christian groups openly seek to witness to Jews. A national Jews for Jesus used our church once for an evangelism campaign. Christians generally react to what they perceive as a threat. Jews normally don't evangelize. Gays seek sympathy for their cause. They want more participants to their lifestyle.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 10/28/2009 7:01:57 PM >
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 7:20:11 PM
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rcjames
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It should be interesting how and if the Politically Correct homosexual hate crimes bill signed by Obama today affect religious freedom to preach the truth from Scripture.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 7:24:11 PM
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GrahamCracker
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RC,
I vote that the PC Metropolitan church invite you to preach on Romans 1. Then we could take up an offering to pay your traveling expenses.
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 7:25:48 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
RC,
I vote that the PC Metropolitan church invite you to preach on Romans 1. Then we could take up an offering to pay your traveling expenses.
Or for my legal espense?????/
Be Blessed Larry
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 7:39:42 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
And now let me repeat myself: if Jews were as generally frowned upon as they have been in America's past today, would people be advocating the same treatment of Jews as they are of homosexuals? Again, I see all these comparisons to theft, rape, murder, shouldn't people be applying them to Jews, who strut around in public as if nothing were amiss? If these people are like the murderers and adulterers as you say, why don't I see the sentiment echoed every day? Jews have already achieved what homosexuals want to achieve, isn't that awful?
This thread is about homosexuality. If you want to know about Christians' belief that other religions are sinful, why not check out one of another dozen or so threads concerning faith and doctrine? The other issues are scattered among other threads.
Again: it somehow seems to be more warranted to treat people of a different religion with softer rhetoric and policy than gay people, be they Christian or otherwise. Why is this? This is the centrality of the issue. People are making comparisons between homosexuality and murder, theft, and rape. I don't see these same comparisons being made between Judaism and rape, murder, theft. Why is that?
What is it that makes homosexuality draw out this kind of rhetoric? Why is it so special, and why does it get the attention it does?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 7:50:31 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
This thread is about homosexuality. If you want to know about Christians' belief that other religions are sinful, why not check out one of another dozen or so threads concerning faith and doctrine? The other issues are scattered among other threads.
Again: it somehow seems to be more warranted to treat people of a different religion with softer rhetoric and policy than gay people, be they Christian or otherwise. Why is this? This is the centrality of the issue. People are making comparisons between homosexuality and murder, theft, and rape. I don't see these same comparisons being made between Judaism and rape, murder, theft. Why is that?
What is it that makes homosexuality draw out this kind of rhetoric? Why is it so special, and why does it get the attention it does?
What is that you don't understand? This thread is about homosexuality. If we could mix the topic up a little and the moderators would let us, I suppose it might be easier. I am opposed to unbelief in Christ (which applies to other people as well as Jews), I am opposed to legalized murder (but we don't have legalized murder lobbies advocating such in our schools).
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 9:48:18 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
This thread is about homosexuality. If you want to know about Christians' belief that other religions are sinful, why not check out one of another dozen or so threads concerning faith and doctrine? The other issues are scattered among other threads.
Again: it somehow seems to be more warranted to treat people of a different religion with softer rhetoric and policy than gay people, be they Christian or otherwise. Why is this? This is the centrality of the issue. People are making comparisons between homosexuality and murder, theft, and rape. I don't see these same comparisons being made between Judaism and rape, murder, theft. Why is that?
What is it that makes homosexuality draw out this kind of rhetoric? Why is it so special, and why does it get the attention it does?
What is that you don't understand? This thread is about homosexuality. If we could mix the topic up a little and the moderators would let us, I suppose it might be easier. I am opposed to unbelief in Christ (which applies to other people as well as Jews), I am opposed to legalized murder (but we don't have legalized murder lobbies advocating such in our schools).
Again, this is about homosexuality. I'm wondering why they're so special. Comparisons are made between adultery and theft and homosexuality. Why are these comparisons invalid when talking about other groups? Are they invalid when talking about other groups? Is being a Jew like being a adulterous, murdering rapist?
If not, why not? Homosexuals clearly are, aren't they? Is being a Jew like being a thieving murderer? If not, why not? Homosexuals clearly are... aren't they?
I admit that I don't spend a lot of time in the forums regarding Judaism and the like, but, and maybe I'm wrong, I don't think I'd see a lot of people making Jews out to be adulterous rapists, murderers and thieves. Am I wrong about this? If I'm right, and the people here don't use this language to describe Jews, why is it that that language is somehow appropriate for homosexuals?
Why are homosexuals lying, raping thieves while Jews are not?
Please help me clear this up.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 10:36:42 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Again, this is about homosexuality. I'm wondering why they're so special. Comparisons are made between adultery and theft and homosexuality. Why are these comparisons invalid when talking about other groups? Are they invalid when talking about other groups? Is being a Jew like being a adulterous, murdering rapist?
If not, why not? Homosexuals clearly are, aren't they? Is being a Jew like being a thieving murderer? If not, why not? Homosexuals clearly are... aren't they?
I admit that I don't spend a lot of time in the forums regarding Judaism and the like, but, and maybe I'm wrong, I don't think I'd see a lot of people making Jews out to be adulterous rapists, murderers and thieves. Am I wrong about this? If I'm right, and the people here don't use this language to describe Jews, why is it that that language is somehow appropriate for homosexuals?
Why are homosexuals lying, raping thieves while Jews are not?
Please help me clear this up.
Who said homosexuals are lying, raping thieves? Homosexuality is a sinful behavior. It is listed with other sinful behaviors. I have never heard of anyone making homosexuals out to be murderers by virtue of the basis of being homosexual. Never heard of it.
Jewishness is not a sinful behavior. BTW, there is more than one meaning of Jewishness. There is Jewishness of birth and genetic heritage and as such there are Jewish Christians. There are Jewish unbelievers and as such they are treated with other forms of unbelief. A dozen other threads discuss Judaism in some form or fashion all of the time. But when we mention Judaism (modern or ancient), we are not relegated to this thread.
There is some disagreement among Christians as to whether or not a person who persists in homosexuality is still a Christian. I know they go to church and even have their own churches but they are defiant towards God no matter what they claim to be.
quote:
Again, this is about homosexuality. I'm wondering why they're so special. Comparisons are made between adultery and theft and homosexuality. Why are these comparisons invalid when talking about other groups? Are they invalid when talking about other groups? Is being a Jew like being a adulterous, murdering rapist?
Did you see Jewishness mentioned with the other sins like murder and theft in the Bible passages? Sorry, but I didn't.
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 10:54:27 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
Jewishness is not a sinful behavior.
Assuming we're talking about the faith, which I am and sorry for not being clear, yes, it absolutely is. It's as sinful as being a Muslim or a Hindu. It's idolatry at best. It's believing in a false god.
quote:
There is some disagreement among Christians as to whether or not a person who persists in homosexuality is still a Christian. I know they go to church and even have their own churches but they are defiant towards God no matter what they claim to be.
Nothing precludes homosexuals from believing in God and that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. If people accept the Jewish faith, this is not the case.
quote:
quote:
Again, this is about homosexuality. I'm wondering why they're so special. Comparisons are made between adultery and theft and homosexuality. Why are these comparisons invalid when talking about other groups? Are they invalid when talking about other groups? Is being a Jew like being a adulterous, murdering rapist?
Did you see Jewishness mentioned with the other sins like murder and theft in the Bible passages? Sorry, but I didn't.
As has been noted, practicing Judaism is actively disbelieving in God, actively believing in a false god. It is idolatry.
Again, is being an idolatrous Jew like being an adulterous, murdering rapist? Why or why not?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 11:03:01 PM
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Marcus.
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Huangshan,
If you have trouble with what groups God has grouped together I suggest you take it up with Him. He is the one that chose what sins and sinners are grouped together. You have been answered a few times but seem to reject or ignore the answer. Personally I do not see an active threat from Jews but I do from homosexuals. If that is not good enough for you to understand I can do no more explaining the same thing over and over.
I do see threats from a few other groups but I won't go off topic here.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2009 11:18:45 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Huangshan,
If you have trouble with what groups God has grouped together I suggest you take it up with Him. He is the one that chose what sins and sinners are grouped together. You have been answered a few times but seem to reject or ignore the answer. Personally I do not see an active threat from Jews but I do from homosexuals. If that is not good enough for you to understand I can do no more explaining the same thing over and over.
I do see threats from a few other groups but I won't go off topic here.
God listed idolatry and worshiping false gods with the other commandments, like lying and stealing and coveting wives and murdering. What sins are grouped with which are not my issue here. This is my issue:
1) Again, why do I see homosexuals compared to liars, thieves and murderers, but I do not see idolatrous Jews compared to liars, thieves and murderers?
2) Are idolatrous Jews like liars, thieves and murderers given that homosexuals are?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2009 12:25:46 AM
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Marcus.
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Check post 3578 again.
quote:
They are idolators as was mentioned before............ In 1 Corinthians 7 God included them with a laundry list of sinners. 9 Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, 6:10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, 3 and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God.
As someone else mentioned to start discussing the other sinners in those groups would be off topic. I don't like getting reprimanded by the mods myself.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2009 12:44:10 AM
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dctalkgirl
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ok hopefully this will help everyone out with this topic on homosexuality...
I found some scriptures so here it goes...
First of all Genesis 1-11 would be a good place to start it explains how God created things and wanted things to be.
Genesis 19 where Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. Although some people feel that they weren't destroyed for the homosexual lifestyle, I believe they were at least destroyed for part of that reason.
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. I looked up the word abomination in the dictionary and here is what it said... abomination: to hate, loathe, to dislike very much. From this I believe that God hated the homosexual lifestyle very much, but not to be confused with hating the people just their sin as with all other sin.
Romans 1:26-27 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. From this I believe that God can't overlook sin no matter if it's the homosexual lifestyle, unmarried couple having sex, lying, etc... I also looked up the word vile in the dictionary and here is what it said... Vile: morally evil, wicked, disgusting, degrading, mean very bad.
Romans 1:32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same, but also approve of those who practice them. I believe there will be consequences for everything we do rather good or bad.
So hopefully this helped.
< Message edited by dctalkgirl -- 10/29/2009 12:51:58 AM >
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2009 1:00:36 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 2308
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
As someone else mentioned to start discussing the other sinners in those groups would be off topic. I don't like getting reprimanded by the mods myself.
Both of my questions involve homosexuality, explicitly. The questions are inextricable from the issue of homosexuality, taking homosexuality into consideration is necessary for the question to have meaning. If I asked them elsewhere on this forum I would be asked to take them here. Please answer:
1) Why do I see homosexuals compared to liars, thieves and murderers, but I do not see idolatrous Jews compared to liars, thieves and murderers?
2) Are idolatrous Jews like liars, thieves and murderers given that homosexuals are?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2009 4:16:56 PM
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Marcus.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
As someone else mentioned to start discussing the other sinners in those groups would be off topic. I don't like getting reprimanded by the mods myself.
Both of my questions involve homosexuality, explicitly. The questions are inextricable from the issue of homosexuality, taking homosexuality into consideration is necessary for the question to have meaning. If I asked them elsewhere on this forum I would be asked to take them here. Please answer:
1) Why do I see homosexuals compared to liars, thieves and murderers, but I do not see idolatrous Jews compared to liars, thieves and murderers?
2) Are idolatrous Jews like liars, thieves and murderers given that homosexuals are?
For both questions, this isn't the thread to discuss those other sinners. For myself I don't see any Jewish people in my area, so it is out of sight and out of mind. The homosexuals however, seem to be everywhere and all over the news. If I saw Jewish groups attacking Christianity or God's Word similarly you would see me on a thread defending our beliefs and fighting against the current apostasy in the body of believers there as well.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2009 4:42:43 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1590
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
I don't. But as I said before, there are pro-Jewish lobbies in America and pro-Muslim lobbies, not to mention pro-Unitarian and pro-atheist lobbies that exist to teach people that it's okay to not be Christian. These lobbies are enormously successful and aside from the fearmongering about Muslims and atheists, not a word is said by Christians about them. Jews are, if I gauge the tone correctly, amazingly popular among the Christian right even though they don't believe in God.
Why do Christians believe that it's not okay to be gay, given their apparent lack of concern about these other groups? They can be married, be open about their explicitly non-Christian (and I would argue necessarily anti-Christian) ideas while serving in the military, and cannot be legally discriminated against in many situations. And yet Christians go after gays with a fervor.
I disagree with the assumption that Christians are going after gays with extraordinary aggression. I don't see it. Are a lot of Christians bumping heads with gays? Sure. But frankly I think the pro-homosexual groups are more vocal and whining more about their lack of acceptance. That seems like a lot of propaganda to me.
Christians have a number of apologetic ministries around. They tend to specialize and are spread fairly thin.
quote:
It's as surely a sin to be a Jew as it's a sin to be a homosexual. But Christians don't care about the former. The former is politically ascendant, but Christians don't care. The Jewish lobby and groups like the ADL make criticism of Jews incredibly politically dangerous. But Christians don't care.
You've never heard of Jews for Jesus? Our church hosted an evangelism campaign a couple of years ago. They used our facilities and those of other nearby churches as bases when they came from out of town to evangelize. If I remember correctly, it received some newspaper space. So, it's being done but the newspaper doesn't address it much. Out of sight and out of mind. You assume, apparently, that there is proportionally more anti-gay activity by Christians than anti-Mormon, anti-Jew or whatever. I don't know that it's the case. I see no evidence one way or other.
About five years ago, when the Passion of Christ movie came out, there was the suggestion that Jews would be targeted for anti-Semitic violence. It proved to be unnecessary but the fear was present anyway, simply because of the movie. There was nothing more. My point is that complaints are often made when there is no evidence.
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Comparisons are made between adultery and theft and homosexuality. Why are these comparisons invalid when talking about other groups? Being a Jew is like being a thief, isn't it? It's like being an adulterer, isn't it? Being a Jew is like being a murderer according to the logic I'm seeing here, isn't it? Is being a Jew like a murderer? If not, why not? If not, why are homosexuals like murderers but not Jews? Are Jews like rapists, as rcjames seems to imply?
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Cor. 6:9-11
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 1 Tim. 1:8-10
Do you see being a Jew mentioned there? We group murder with homosexuality and fornication because the Bible does. But while homosexuals may believe they are targeted more than Jews, I don't believe it is true.
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2009 6:29:21 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2308
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
As someone else mentioned to start discussing the other sinners in those groups would be off topic. I don't like getting reprimanded by the mods myself.
Both of my questions involve homosexuality, explicitly. The questions are inextricable from the issue of homosexuality, taking homosexuality into consideration is necessary for the question to have meaning. If I asked them elsewhere on this forum I would be asked to take them here. Please answer:
1) Why do I see homosexuals compared to liars, thieves and murderers, but I do not see idolatrous Jews compared to liars, thieves and murderers?
2) Are idolatrous Jews like liars, thieves and murderers given that homosexuals are?
For both questions, this isn't the thread to discuss those other sinners. For myself I don't see any Jewish people in my area, so it is out of sight and out of mind. The homosexuals however, seem to be everywhere and all over the news. If I saw Jewish groups attacking Christianity or God's Word similarly you would see me on a thread defending our beliefs and fighting against the current apostasy in the body of believers there as well.
If this isn't the thread to discuss those other sinners, why did you say this earlier?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Could be because folks are trying so hard to defend this perversion. No shame. No repentance. Only looking for ways to claim its moral or good. Twisting God's Word or dismissing it entirely.
At least murderers and rapists haven't formed groups to demand equality to assault people as a right. yet.
This isn't the thread to talk about murderers and rapists, it's the thread to talk about homosexuality. This is silly, please answer the simple questions. It's directly pertinent to my understanding of how people think about the sin of homosexuality:
1) Why do I see homosexuals compared to liars, thieves and murderers, but I do not see idolatrous Jews compared to liars, thieves and murderers?
2) Are idolatrous Jews like liars, thieves and murderers given that homosexuals are?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2009 6:31:23 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2308
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
We group murder with homosexuality and fornication because the Bible does.
...and it does with Jews as well. Ten commandments, idolatry. You're probably familiar.
1) Why do I see homosexuals compared to liars, thieves and murderers, but I do not see idolatrous Jews compared to liars, thieves and murderers?
2) Are idolatrous Jews like liars, thieves and murderers given that homosexuals are?
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