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ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

So, Mr. Neanderthal, exactly what sins do you think God will let YOU into heaven with that have not been repented? Unless you have a guarantee of one of those Hollywood deaths where you have plenty of time to reflect to make sure nothing has been missed.

Seriously. I'm wondering which unrepented sins automatically nullify salvation.


To set the record straight, a born again, blood-bought, redeemed and Holy Spirit indwelt believer in God the Son will grow in grace and the knowledge of Jesus Christ and will try to become more like Him every day as long as they are in their right mind.

I rebuke you in the name of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for accusing me of promoting any kind of a license to sin or no obligation to obey Him.

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Biblically speaking, ALL unrepented sin nullifies salvation, because as defined by the Apostles and Christ Himself, unrepented sin necessarily separates man from God.

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Perhaps one of the core dividing points between us is that you sound a lot like someone who believes in OSAS "Once Saved Always Saved".

Is this the case?

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ORIGINAL: phosadaud

When Jesus was dying on the cross and the thief on the cross next to Him asked to "remember me when you come into your Kingdom", let's see what Jesus said and note what Jesus didn't say.

"I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise"

What Jesus doesn't say is: So, you'd better not sin between now and when you die or unless you repent really fast, you will go to hell.

It's grace folks - it's not something we have to earn. God isn't up there with a check off list of our sins and a list of the things we have repented of. He knows we can never earn our way into His presence. That's the POINT!

And no, I do not believe once saved, always saved. I believe there are some who consciously and with intent can turn their back on the gift God gave them.

One sin is not that thing though.

Which is good, because as much as I try to honor God in my daily life, I fail everyday...

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Volitional sin is the issue Pho: doing something we know to be a sin and NOT repenting of it. One of these is the subject matter at hand: Suicide; murdering oneself and the fact is that because the 'successful' Suicide is no longer alive to ask the Lord for forgiveness of the sin of self-murder.

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ORIGINAL: Neanderthal75

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ORIGINAL: crh737

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ORIGINAL: Neanderthal75

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ORIGINAL: crh737

Jesus asked the pharisees,sadducees, and scribes which sin was greater murder or a lie?

His answer: They are equal sin is sin.

Jesus came to save the sinner and died and covers a multitude of sin. The *only sin* not covered is Blasmephy of the Holy Spirit.

Only He knows the condition of one's hearts and no one here has the right to sit on the throne stating their *opinion* or *false* teachings of what God knows.

belief on Him and what He did on the cross to save you.
He will not allow one to slip through his hands. He will never leave or forsake you.
Salvation is secured

There is a mulitiude of sins that we are daily forgiven for and anyone seeking to refute my claims. Please call on my Wise Counselor. He really likes the knee-mail

CRH

Hello there,

I'd like to point out a few particulars about your above:

Believers are reminded that we as members of the Body of Christ do NOT have the right to judge the world, we DO have the right (and responsibility) to judge other members of the Body of Christ and they us; this keeps us all 'honest'.

Further, salvation depends on any given number of issues/doctrines, the key doctrine being a person's belief in Jesus. However, there are a number of "Jesus'" being preached in various churches/temples, but according to both the Apostle Paul and the Apostle Peter, there is ONLY One Jesus who provides salvation.

The Mormons, aka Latter Day Saints, believe in the Jesus who is literally the brother of Lucifer. Their Jesus (pre-incarnation) is also the son of Elohim and one of his many spirit/goddess wives, and Jesus corporeal entry into human linear time was the result of physical sex between Elohim and Mary.

Do you believe in the Mormon Jesus? I certainly do not, as that is NOT the Jesus as described in the Four Gospels, Acts, the Epistles of Paul, James, Peter, Judas, John. We were warned in 2 Cor. 11:4 to REJECT any other 'Jesus' than He whom was preached by Paul and his fellow apostles.

I'd like to provide you with a few other citations and comments, but while the spirit is willing, the flesh is exceedingly weak. I'll try to post again tonight.

I have no clue where you are coming from. I have not judged anyone in my post., so you may be better reading it again when you are awake!

1Peter3:16-18
Having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed, v17 for it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than doing evil. v18 for christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the un just (or righteous for the unrighteous), that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the Spirit.


Speak about judging someone: You do not even know me, yet *YOU* are making accusation or assumptions that I am mormon.

CRH

BTW: I am not

Hey Chris,

The judgment you made was in stating that 'no one here' has the right to state that a suicide goes to Hell.

We all have the right to state our points of view, basing them in Scripture, rather than mere personal opinion.

This is where you were judgmental. I merely stated that we in the Body have both a right and an obligation to judge each other: but using Scriptural basis, not worldly.

Further, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder the size of a California Redwood: I did not call you a Mormon, nor did I even intimate it.

I used the LDS definition of who Jesus is, as an example of the differences in what people believe, pertaining to the issue of Salvation: which IS the main aspect of what we are debating here.

I hope that you'll ASK about something which someone has written, rather than just taking a negative tack.

Cheers.

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ORIGINAL: Qtman

The Bible does not address suicide. The modern Christian view of suicide as a sin is based on the writings of St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas of the middle ages. Prior to that it was not even considered a sin.

Also you can't use the "Thou shalt not kill" or "Thou shalt not murder" as scriptural proof of the sinfulness of suicide. I would recommend everyone not simply quote scripture from the Bible without further studying the Hebrew text. There are some very good reference books available that give a good study of the Hebrew language. For example, the KJV Bible says Thou shalt not kill. More modern versions have translated that into Thou shalt not murder. The latter is the more accurate translation but even then it is not that simple. The Hebrew word actually used is "ratsach". A basic English translation of that word is "Do not take the life of another without cause. Using the Hebrew word and its meaning suicide cannot be murder. You have to consider the original language was Hebrew which was translated into other languages and finally into English. Sadly, there are terms in the Hebrew language that just does not have a counterpart in the English language. That is why studying the Bible with Hebrew references is so important. O.K. Just my two cents worth.

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ORIGINAL: Qtman

The Bible does not address suicide. The modern Christian view of suicide as a sin is based on the writings of St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas of the middle ages. Prior to that it was not even considered a sin.

Also you can't use the "Thou shalt not kill" or "Thou shalt not murder" as scriptural proof of the sinfulness of suicide. I would recommend everyone not simply quote scripture from the Bible without further studying the Hebrew text. There are some very good reference books available that give a good study of the Hebrew language. For example, the KJV Bible says Thou shalt not kill. More modern versions have translated that into Thou shalt not murder. The latter is the more accurate translation but even then it is not that simple. The Hebrew word actually used is "ratsach". A basic English translation of that word is "Do not take the life of another without cause. Using the Hebrew word and its meaning suicide cannot be murder. You have to consider the original language was Hebrew which was translated into other languages and finally into English. Sadly, there are terms in the Hebrew language that just does not have a counterpart in the English language. That is why studying the Bible with Hebrew references is so important. O.K. Just my two cents worth.

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ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

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Volitional sin is the issue Pho: doing something we know to be a sin and NOT repenting of it. One of these is the subject matter at hand: Suicide; murdering oneself and the fact is that because the 'successful' Suicide is no longer alive to ask the Lord for forgiveness of the sin of self-murder.

What are you, a Catholic? I only ask because you've been spouting Catholic dogma. The whole volitional / unvolitional thing is nowhere in scripture, only dogma.

Do you conveniently classify your pet sin "unvolitional" or do you just confess it after each time you do it?

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ORIGINAL: Neanderthal75

Sin on the other hand, is STILL sin. Did not Jesus tell the adulteress, "Go and sin no more."?

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Further, looking more closely at your citation, given the obvious faith of the dying thief, what in the world (no pun intended) would make you believe that the thief, hanging in utter agony on a cross, would do whatever he could to sin?

Your premise is not logical Pho.

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Like you, I too, because of my sin nature, fail to 100% obey God-my mind may betray me at any given moment, depending on pain, frustration, circumstance, etc. These are unvolitional sin and are I believe, taken care of by asking forgiveness for all the sins I unknowingly commit.

Volitional sin is the issue Pho: doing something we know to be a sin and NOT repenting of it. One of these is the subject matter at hand: Suicide; murdering oneself and the fact is that because the 'successful' Suicide is no longer alive to ask the Lord for forgiveness of the sin of self-murder.

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This is my position, NOT based on mere personal opinion, but on substantiated Scripture and biblical doctrines.

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ORIGINAL: ceejaye19

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

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ORIGINAL: Cloud9lives

Suicide is unrepentable.

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ORIGINAL: beyond

Wish I would have came across this thread when it started, but I'm going to jump in here anyway.
This topic is an emotional one for me and I have felt much anger reading through this thread, reading every ones "take" on the issue of suicide. " How ridiculous some people are!! I have had three suicides in my family!! October of 1992 my father stuck a 12 gauge in his mouth and pulled the trigger, March 1993 my brother hung himself in my mother basement, December 1999 my aunt shot herself in the head.
I have personally seen the emotional turmoil, mental illness, confusion, depression, heartache and desperation leading up to a person taking there own life! I have had to learn to live with the pain, confusion, heartache, and emotional turmoil resulting from these tragedies!! Reading these responses in this thread I have found to be INSULTING and insensitive!! What makes you think you are qualified to judge when you have no knowledge of the person, what was going on in their life, what their mental condition was, or where their heart is towards God!!

"suicide is unrepentable" I COULDN'T TELL YOU HOW BAD I WANT TO SMACK YOU!!! You have no scriptural basis for that statement!!

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ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

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ORIGINAL: CCCdnt

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ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

Just because you have read scripture and come to a conclusion in NO way means you've arrived at it's intended meaning.

This could be said of anyone.

Ah, but you implied that only you got it or that everyone else is inernt.

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If you are convinced that salvation is obtained by grace but only kept by works, then I can see why you'd be willing to write off those you don't understand or have not known well enough to have an informed opinion. You and I probably would have been on the same page until I was about 34.