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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/12/2009 5:36:20 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6377
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Eutyclus...there are those who do not control their emotional functions in a rational way and of course God would not find fault in actions taken in such a situation.
I also believe in Gods providence and as has been stated, I'm not sure that we have the ability to override Gods plans for our lives. It might appear we do but is that really the case? Myself I'm pretty certain I will breathe until God deems otherwise, regardless of my desires.
Bob
As long as your mind functions as it does now.
It is easy to judge another person in a different mental state - an illness- than I am now. I have found that God sometimes puts me in circumstances that I assert that "I'll never do such a thing."
BTW, I had a BIL that committed suicide before 20 that was in perfect physical health, happily married, and expecting their first child. That child is now a man, my nephew, in his late 20s. He experienced the same sort of clinical depression as his dad (who was judged harshly by church folk like us) and the boy had no idea what was happening. Fortunately, his condition was diagnosed before he ever reached the point of attempting suicide, but he told me that it was a state of living hell unrelated to his physical or financial or rational situation. It was no more rationally controllable than a diabetic unaware of his condition.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/12/2009 6:06:02 PM
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Victory444
Posts: 134
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
What about situations where people are ill and the illness causes them to commit suicide. Most, if not all, medications have the potential to effect the brain. Medications work differently on different people. Asprin may cure a headache for one person but cause depression for another. So, if someone has an illness that causes them to commit suicide, are they going to hell?
I wish you would read my posts, and give them some thought. The Lord led me into what I feel is HIS answer to that question. Of course the Lord does NOT let people go to hell for committing suicide. NO one is in their right mind when they do that!!! He meets us where we are... We are saved by GRACE. We couldn't save ourselves, and by the same token we can't un-save ourselves. ...even if we could, THAT would have to be our INTENTION. Suicide is NOT renouncing Christ!! Anyway, murder is forgivable... Paul murdered Christians. The Blood of Christ covers all of our sins. The Bible says NO ONE can pluck us out of His hand... that includes our own self! God will take us out Himself before we cross that line, and I know people whom that has happened to.
_____________________________
In His Precious Love, Victory444
Psalm 118:17 & 18 "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord. The Lord hath chastened me sore: but He hath not given me over unto death."
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/12/2009 6:21:59 PM
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Giulia
Posts: 587
Joined: 9/29/2005
From: Giulia
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quote:
He was the ONLY one I had left whom I felt I could trust ,
That's good, you had Him to trust and yes He is the ONLY one we can fully trust when push comes to shove we should not place our confidence in anyone but Him.
quote:
THAT is what God told me in a poem He had me write before I did do it.
If you still did it then that wasn't enough for you.
quote:
I was treated so bad by people, including my own family, I didn't think I deserved to take up space on this planet.
I did so many wrong things and no one needed me here and were fine without me, I had no purpose or function and world was better off without me, I was just a waste of air. Being treated badly is the result of how you allow them to treat you. It is a victim mentality of which I know of well as I lived it. Everything was going wrong for me and nothing I ever did good was noticed by anyone. No one invited me anywhere and I was alone. I allowed all of that. I was not taking responsibility and I was a victim. I might add that it's also a very self engrossed state of mind as there are many things that are not being done on this earth that need to be done and wallowing in self pity is not productive and is not brave. Fact is we all have a responsibility for our own selves, each person will give account of that and to say it is someone else's fault does not cut the mustard. People blame and accuse, people are jealous and it seem to happen en masse, so it's not just one person but the whole lot who join in mindlessly. It happened in the time of Jesus, it happens now when people just follow the actions and reactions of others and if you don't stand up then you will get walked over and that's not Christian to allow people to walk over you as you are His temple and you are worth the blood He shed so cherish that, don't take it as a common thing. Also should examine why people are nasty to you. If it's just that they don't like your deodorant then it's their problem if you like it but you may want to change it if it is offensive as we do have a certain social responsibility. If it's because you are talented or pretty it is also their problem and not yours. If it's because you don't pull your weight then it's your problem that you should do something about, I don't know the circumstances but I am sure you will work it out. Think yourself fortunate to be counted amongst the people who suffer with Him as when you suffer with Him you shall also reign with Him and no servant is greater than his/her master.
< Message edited by Giulia -- 1/12/2009 6:45:45 PM >
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Rejected by the world but loved by heaven
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/12/2009 6:24:57 PM
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ChristFollower21
Posts: 84
Joined: 11/18/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CindySc
I have pondered this question myself, especially when several family members committed suicide, it was hard to think that they would be lost forver. But I've come to believe the answer to that question is in the bible. Remember the story of the first King of Israel Saul and how he went to the medium and conjured up the soul of Samuel. Samuel said to Saul that tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. I believe that the spirit really was Samuel and that even though the next day Saul killed himself, he was still saved and went to the same place that Samuel was. On top of that, I believe once you are saved you are saved and if the person is, the sin of killing themselves will not take them away from the Lord.
lol r u serious im sorry to laugh at you but sweetie did u read it carefully. You know that Saul went to a witch. Witches are evil no good comes from them they are of the devil. Deuteronomy 18:9-13, NIV. "When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord, and because of these detestable practices the Lord your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the Lord your God." It was a fallen angel she conjured up. The devil was using Saul thats why he hated David so much. You can't use that as an example of someone being forgiven of suicide.It doesnt even say that Saul gave his life to the Lord and repented which I dealt because he was fighting against David the one that God blessed so much. We truly dont know what will happen, only God knows, honestly.
_____________________________
Romans 3:23 KJV" For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/12/2009 6:26:57 PM
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ChristFollower21
Posts: 84
Joined: 11/18/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters
quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
Blasphemy the Holy Spirit is rejection of God. As the Three make one
God the Father
God The Son
God the Holy Spirit
3 which are *1*
I dissagree but I'm not going to argue about it.
What r u disagreeing about. Uhm I think he should of worded the 3 which is 1 thing better. One in the bible means unity not one person. THey are seperate but they all come from the Father.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/12/2009 8:10:34 PM
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Mindy-and-Me
Posts: 233
Joined: 1/2/2009
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Victory444 - You stated that no one in their right mind would commit suicide. What about people who commit murder? Are they in their right minds? I've heard many cases of murder defended due to insanity plea. They still broke one of the Ten Commandments and if they don't repent, they will go to Hell according to the Word of God.
I believe that you believe your experience is true, but it isn't Biblical at all.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/12/2009 8:41:22 PM
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PinkCarnations
Posts: 10816
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Victory444
quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
What about situations where people are ill and the illness causes them to commit suicide. Most, if not all, medications have the potential to effect the brain. Medications work differently on different people. Asprin may cure a headache for one person but cause depression for another. So, if someone has an illness that causes them to commit suicide, are they going to hell?
I wish you would read my posts, and give them some thought.
I wish that those who believe that suicide automatically means hell would answer my question.
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Thank you Veterans.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/12/2009 9:18:28 PM
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Victory444
Posts: 134
Status: offline
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Dear Giulia,
I shared a small fraction of my story to try to help some people who CAN relate to me. You have no idea what all I have been through, what it has done to me, what I have learned from it, and what I think about it. Nor do you know how God uses me, and the training/trials, and tribulations He has put me through in order to prepare me for it. Some of us have had to suffer more than others because it is God's training of us to prepare us for His use of us. I have been a Christian for many years, and I DO count it all joy to suffer as my Savior suffered, but, I seem to recall Him hurting so much that He was sweating Blood, and crying out from the Cross, He wept, and He even got angry. I am used to being talked to the way you have talked to me, but, some people here don't understand being given words of shame in response to sharing their broken heart. I have been studying for the past 30 years to be able to help people. I have studied the syndromes, and I have lived them. I don't want to share all that I have been through, especially after seeing the kind of response it can bring to me here. Some of us are true victims, not merely playing the victim, and we have been brainwashed into believing that we can't get out of our situation. Have you ever seen an elephant stay tied to a mere stake pounded in the ground? Do you know why they stay there when they could yank it up as easily as a hot knife through butter? It is because they are tied as babies, unable to pull it up, and after struggling for awhile, they become convinced that it is not possible, so they quit trying. A horse is trained to be tied using that same strategy. Some people have been kept down with brute force. Some people have been conditioned from childhood to be "adult children of dysfunctional families". Some people have what is called an "imprisoned spirit"/wounded spirit that stifles them. You and I do not compare to one another, nor do we compare to anyone else. I am trained to help people according to who they are and what they have been through. No 2 people react the same to the same circumstances. I came here to try to lift others up, not to be brought down myself. I love my Lord with all my heart, and He IS enough for me! But, He allows certain things for certain reasons... but, that doesn't mean that He is not enough or that what He gives us is not enough... It merely means that we all need to heal, and to grow, and to grow up... all at different speeds. If your cup is sweeter than the ones others have been given, drink it with thanksgiving. Many of us have been given a bitter cup for a reason, and we have to drink it with grace.
_____________________________
In His Precious Love, Victory444
Psalm 118:17 & 18 "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord. The Lord hath chastened me sore: but He hath not given me over unto death."
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/12/2009 9:39:36 PM
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Victory444
Posts: 134
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
quote:
ORIGINAL: Victory444
quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
What about situations where people are ill and the illness causes them to commit suicide. Most, if not all, medications have the potential to effect the brain. Medications work differently on different people. Asprin may cure a headache for one person but cause depression for another. So, if someone has an illness that causes them to commit suicide, are they going to hell?
I wish you would read my posts, and give them some thought.
I wish that those who believe that suicide automatically means hell would answer my question.
My Dear, What do you feel in your own spirit? Do you think we have a God who is so void of understanding that He might set it up so that we automatically go to hell if we commit suicide? Why is it so important to you to know the answer? Do you have someone whom you know who has done it? Have you had those urges yourself? If a person has those urges, it is not likely that God will let them grasp the answer to that, because He wants them to get help if they have those urges, not to give in to them. I have tried to answer your question. Now I want to know if you are okay.
Are you okay?
_____________________________
In His Precious Love, Victory444
Psalm 118:17 & 18 "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord. The Lord hath chastened me sore: but He hath not given me over unto death."
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/12/2009 10:51:03 PM
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Robert_G
Posts: 197
Joined: 1/8/2006
From: British Columbia, Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
quote:
ORIGINAL: zacubus
When there are so many people fighting tooth and nail for the next breath
yet one would give theirs up. You cannot take your own life, that decision
belongs to the Lord alone.
That is true, but it doesn't answer my question. What about situations where people are ill and the illness causes them to commit suicide. Most, if not all, medications have the potential to effect the brain. Medications work differently on different people. Asprin may cure a headache for one person but cause depression for another. So, if someone has an illness that causes them to commit suicide, are they going to hell?
Is a person's illness bigger then God? A Christian would know the answer to that.
Can God bring a Christian through their problem, no matter how bad it is?
A Christian should know that answer too.
Perhaps too many people go straight to the medication, without giving God a passing thought.
Perhaps too many people put their trust in a pill, instead of a heartfelt prayer to God.
Can God not work through a brain disorder?
Is bi-polar above God's healing power?
Does God allow people to have brain disorders because he wants people to be tempted to take their own lives?
The answers are simple. A Christian trusts God through thick and thin. A Christian puts his trust in God and prayer BEFORE medication...and note I didn't say INSTEAD OF.
A Christian looks to The Holy Spirit for guidance in tough times, not a bottle of pills or a gun.
Suicide can be forgiven, but Christians don't murder in cold blood.
This isn't a case of an unforgivable sin. Its a simple case of someone who was never a Christian to begin with. Christians do NOT murder in premeditated cold blood....period.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/12/2009 11:12:45 PM
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delete123
Posts: 540
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
Christians do NOT murder in premeditated cold blood....period.
Yes they do. King David had Bathsheba's husband Uriah murdered to hide his own sin of adultry. Imagine that a man after God's own heart 
He paid the consequences for his sin, but was forgiven
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/12/2009 11:22:36 PM
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Giulia
Posts: 587
Joined: 9/29/2005
From: Giulia
Status: offline
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quote:
I shared a small fraction of my story to try to help some people who CAN relate to me. You have no idea what all I have been through, what it has done to me, what I have learned from it, and what I think about it. Nor do you know how God uses me, and the training/trials, and tribulations He has put me through in order to prepare me for it. Some of us have had to suffer more than others because it is God's training of us to prepare us for His use of us. I have been a Christian for many years, and I DO count it all joy to suffer as my Savior suffered, but, I seem to recall Him hurting so much that He was sweating Blood, and crying out from the Cross, He wept, and He even got angry. I am used to being talked to the way you have talked to me, but, some people here don't understand being given words of shame in response to sharing their broken heart.
Victory 444,I am sorry if you feel I have talked to you in a bad way at all/ I am quite firm but I wouldn't say I am mean though some spirits try to make me look that way. True love is tough and some may not like the harshness of being corrected even though it's for your own good. My grandchildren think I am mean when I don't allow them all the sweets they want and they can cry all they like, it's not gonna make me give in and it also doesn't make me mean. I do have some idea of what you may have gone through. I know too well the injustices that can be dealt to a person, the betrayal from a man or woman, the neglect and heartlessness. I have lost a husband to foul play, multiple children to others and to death because I was forced and plenty of money has remained buried or taken by others of mine. I have had chemotherapy and had to fight against the torment from authority figures out to kill me which the bible tells me are put there by God. Doctors have tried to certify me unnecessarily and 5 years ago my family was getting ready to plan my funeral and my children were told not to get too close to me because I was a bad example. Now that's just some of what I have been through, there are others who have fared far worse than that and there is really no progress in comparing war stories apart from, perhaps, having someone relate and then getting hope from seeing your situation has been far worse than their own.
Jesus did weep on the cross, did He get angry? I don't recall Him getting angry, correct me if I am wrong. He didn't cry so people could hear Him or see Him and have pity on Him. He was let down that the disciples didn't stay up and pray and He felt alone but He didn't hold that against them or make them wear guilt from it. If they wore guilt (as Peter did) it was from their own doing.
You seem to be isolating yourself terribly when you tell me I have "NO IDEA" and "I DON"T KNOW" your pain and you seem to justify it real well also. Show me please where I have given you words of shame. My intention has been to help you through the lies which our self usually makes so easy to believe as truth. Our own self tries to give us reason to justify and wallow in our self pity because that is where the devil likes to keep us. There is no victory in that. Which words which I gave you made you feel shame? If I was to give in to your clever justification for self pity would that make me more kind? If I was to even entertain that I would be quite mean in not allowing you to find a way to overcome that, in actual fact and anyone who does engage in pity for your situation is just keeping you down. They can have empathy but to allow you to wallow in it and not get over it and even try to find a way to say God sees you as just for having killed yourself, is that right? To avoid the responsibility of repentance with God's twisted words to make it right and all His people believing you were right. Is that right?
quote:
quote:
THAT is what God told me in a poem He had me write before I did do it.
If you still did it then that wasn't enough for you.
Also you seemed to have cleverly avoided not answering this question.
< Message edited by Giulia -- 1/13/2009 12:38:40 AM >
_____________________________
Rejected by the world but loved by heaven
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/13/2009 1:47:31 AM
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Gentlenatured1
Posts: 295
Joined: 4/21/2008
From: Southern California
Status: offline
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It is one of many age-old questions, debated for centuries.
My older brother committed suicide when he was 20 and I was 9.
Was he a Christian? I don't know.
Is he in Heaven? I won't know until I get there.
Is he in Hell? I cannot say or speculate. I certainly hope not.
Your sister in Christ------------
PAMELA
_____________________________
PAMELA
" . . . show forth the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light . . . " I Peter 2:9(b)
Rejoice----we are another day closer to the Rapture!
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/13/2009 2:38:56 AM
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Evangelistoo
Posts: 70
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline
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I have read some of the comments on this topic, and my heart and prayers go out to those who attempted suicide... BUT GOD!... and to those who have had friends and loved ones who have commited suicide, and to those who have thoughts of... May God's grace and love continue to strengthen and cover all of you.
But the truth of suicide must be spoken. God is love and full grace, and His faithfulness is renewed each morning. PRAISE HIS NAME! But the Word says: THOU SHALL NOT KILL! and when a person takes matter into their own hands, whether its due to illness and he/she no longer cares to endure until the end God's way, or the person is depressed and no longer cares to work things out and endure to see what the end will be, suicide is a SIN of MURDER! How can you be forgiven if there is no repentance?
Truth can't set you free unless you face the reality and pain of the truth. To kill one's self, this is a sin unto death, how can a person repent after they have killed themself?... of course, we know not what happens on the other side when the person takes their last breath on this side, that's between God and that person. And I'm sure God's mercy and grace comes into play somewhere in the beyond. But God's word says, the unrepentant will not inherit the kingdom, so we must face the truth of God's word... and rebuke this demonic act of suicide in the powerful name of Jesus Christ, and encourage those we know who are depressed and in pain, and those suffering from their illness. Pain and suffering is God's way of drawing us closer to him, so why stop the process by killing yourself, just because you refuse to repent and deal with your pain? We all know that being good doesn't get us into heaven, nor does the excuse of suicide due to illness or depression. He who endures until the end and overcomes... suicide is a prideful selfish act of unrepentance of one's sins, influenced by satan himself.
Revelation chapter 21, so states that murderers will not enter the kingdom of heaven. So if everyone knows this BEFORE such happens, there will be less suicides.
Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ SHALL/WILL be saved!
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/13/2009 9:17:01 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6377
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
Christians do NOT murder in premeditated cold blood....period.
Yes they do. King David had Bathsheba's husband Uriah murdered to hide his own sin of adultry. Imagine that a man after God's own heart
He paid the consequences for his sin, but was forgiven
David was not a Christian. Did David go to Heaven (Paradise)? Of course he did, but there were no Christians until Pentecost.
David did not even have the Holy Spirit in him at the time of he murdered Uriah...and we know that because God had to send the prophet Nathan to tell David that he had done evil.
Today...for us Christians, The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, so that WE can know WHEN we sin. If David would of had The Holy Spirit in him, there would of been no need for God to send a prophet to him to tell him what he did was evil.
Again....Christians do NOT murder in premeditated cold blood....period.
Bob, do you sincerely think people were saved some other way in the OT? If so, How, by works or by Law?!?!?!?
The Bible shows that neither works nor Law can save you, just as works cannot keep you - both OT & NT. That's basic Bible 101.
Grace saved and Grace kept salvation both in OT as well as NT. Failure to understand THAT spawns all kinds of false and silly notions.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/13/2009 9:37:53 AM
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Victory444
Posts: 134
Status: offline
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quote:
God does not judge the acts of the mentally challenged as He does the fully rational believers.
_________
Hi, Eutychus, There it is in a nut shell!!!! I wish ALL had the eyes to see and the ears to hear that!!!
Leave it to a man to say in a few words what a woman tries to say by writhing a pamphlet...or a book...LOL. Last week end I talked for about 5 or 10 minutes to my husband on a subject, and I said something like, "Do you feel that way, too?" and his entire response was, "No". Normally I would have been disturbed with him for not being particularly interested in what I was saying, but, that time I burst out laughing.
The Lord keeps telling me that we sow the seeds, and HE makes them grow, so, we don't have to stand over them with a sun lamp and a watering can... and dumping a dump truck load of seeds on a person doesn't make the person hear and see what we feel led to tell them any better. All they will be focused on then is digging their way out from under all of those seeds. What just came to my mind is where the Bible talks about greeting one another with a holy kiss... Do you think the Lord was trying to say, "KISS!...Keep It SIMPLE, Servant!!!"
_____________________________
In His Precious Love, Victory444
Psalm 118:17 & 18 "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord. The Lord hath chastened me sore: but He hath not given me over unto death."
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/13/2009 9:56:21 AM
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Victory444
Posts: 134
Status: offline
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Hi, Guilia, I just want you to know that I am prayerfully working on a response to you. I hope you will be praying for our Lord to prepare you to hear what He gives me to tell you. What I see is that you are a very wounded person, just like I am, and what He showed me is that that can cause us to perceive things that people say to us in a way other than how they really mean it, and it can cause us to say things in a way that comes across as hurtful, but, we don't mean it that way. I would invite you to interact with me via PM, but, I believe our interactions can be very helpful to others. You decide which way you want to communicate. I don't want to make you uncomfortable by talking with you here if that would make you uncomfortable. I would like to share with you what our Lord has shown me. You are right about spirits being present, but, they deceive us as well as others.
I have not had a real life... Father has had me very isolated, especially for the past 30 years, in training for a ministry to the severely wounded whom most others don't know what to do with... I am one of those people. It sounds like you have suffered in that way, too. When I asked Father for someone to help me, He told me that HE would help me Himself, and that He would train ME up to be that person. He wants to "turn our scars into stars"...and "turn our moanies into testimonies". It is up to you to say whether or not you want to hear what I have to offer you.
_____________________________
In His Precious Love, Victory444
Psalm 118:17 & 18 "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord. The Lord hath chastened me sore: but He hath not given me over unto death."
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/13/2009 11:48:10 AM
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bob97
Posts: 2252
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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quote:
uote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
Christians do NOT murder in premeditated cold blood....period.
Yes they do. King David had Bathsheba's husband Uriah murdered to hide his own sin of adultry. Imagine that a man after God's own heart
He paid the consequences for his sin, but was forgiven
David was not a Christian. Did David go to Heaven (Paradise)? Of course he did, but there were no Christians until Pentecost.
David did not even have the Holy Spirit in him at the time of he murdered Uriah...and we know that because God had to send the prophet Nathan to tell David that he had done evil.
Today...for us Christians, The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, so that WE can know WHEN we sin. If David would of had The Holy Spirit in him, there would of been no need for God to send a prophet to him to tell him what he did was evil.
Again....Christians do NOT murder in premeditated cold blood....period.
Bob, do you sincerely think people were saved some other way in the OT? If so, How, by works or by Law?!?!?!?
The Bible shows that neither works nor Law can save you, just as works cannot keep you - both OT & NT. That's basic Bible 101.
Grace saved and Grace kept salvation both in OT as well as NT. Failure to understand THAT spawns all kinds of false and silly notions.
So many Bob's here....I agree Eutychus;
Every person ever saved or who will be saved achieve salvation under the terms of the new covenant and are washed in the blood of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Now actual salvation was not achieved until Christ went to the cross but those dying before were accredited that which would occur later.
All are saved by faith…there is no other way.
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/13/2009 11:58:46 AM
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bob97
Posts: 2252
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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What about those who commit suicide in a rather slow manner? Those who, knowing full well their habit will kill them continue to smoke, drink or over eat until their habit brings them to an early death. Is this really any different then putting a gun to ones head?
Once again there will be the argument that they have no control because they are addicts against their will.
God intended us to live a healthy life and the laws given to the early Hebrews give testimony to this.
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/13/2009 12:09:10 PM
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PinkCarnations
Posts: 10816
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
quote:
ORIGINAL: zacubus
When there are so many people fighting tooth and nail for the next breath
yet one would give theirs up. You cannot take your own life, that decision
belongs to the Lord alone.
That is true, but it doesn't answer my question. What about situations where people are ill and the illness causes them to commit suicide. Most, if not all, medications have the potential to effect the brain. Medications work differently on different people. Asprin may cure a headache for one person but cause depression for another. So, if someone has an illness that causes them to commit suicide, are they going to hell?
Is a person's illness bigger then God? A Christian would know the answer to that.
Most Christians know that they don't know all there is to know about God or how He chooses to work.
quote:
Can God bring a Christian through their problem, no matter how bad it is?
A Christian should know that answer too.
He can, but He sometimes chooses not too.
quote:
Perhaps too many people go straight to the medication, without giving God a passing thought.
Perhaps too many people put their trust in a pill, instead of a heartfelt prayer to God.
Actually, I have found in my own life, that most Christians turn to medication as a last resort.
quote:
Can God not work through a brain disorder?
Yes He can and He uses different ways of doing that.
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Is bi-polar above God's healing power?
Nope, but when and how He chooses to heal is different for each person.
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Does God allow people to have brain disorders because he wants people to be tempted to take their own lives?
I don't know why God allows for any illness.
quote:
The answers are simple. A Christian trusts God through thick and thin. A Christian puts his trust in God and prayer BEFORE medication...and note I didn't say INSTEAD OF.
A Christian looks to The Holy Spirit for guidance in tough times, not a bottle of pills or a gun.
Suicide can be forgiven, but Christians don't murder in cold blood.
This isn't a case of an unforgivable sin. Its a simple case of someone who was never a Christian to begin with. Christians do NOT murder in premeditated cold blood....period.
It's not always mental illness that causes a person to attempt suicide. Medications have different effects on different people. A person can be perfectly healthy mentally and be put on medication for a kidney problem. That medication may wind up having a negative effect on them mentally.
Is that person not relying on God?
Are they less of a Christian than they were before the medication?
Are they wrong for going on the medication?
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Thank you Veterans.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/13/2009 1:16:24 PM
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PinkCarnations
Posts: 10816
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gentlenatured1
My older brother committed suicide when he was 20 and I was 9.
((((Pamela)))) That must have been very painful for you and your family.
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Thank you Veterans.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/13/2009 6:23:58 PM
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Giulia
Posts: 587
Joined: 9/29/2005
From: Giulia
Status: offline
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Victory444
quote:
What I see is that you are a very wounded person,
Not at all, far from it. I have been made whole. Been through nine lives and survived a lot but I am whole and not wounded at all. These day people come to me for counsel because they see my strength in the joy I have and the peace as well.
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"turn our moanies into testimonies".
Please let me know if you heard me moan.
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It is up to you to say whether or not you want to hear what I have to offer you.
I am all ears. Yes I do want to hear what you have to say.
Yes I think sometimes I do say hurtful things, sometimes I am just blabbing without thinking and I apologise when I do that, but mostly it's for a reason. Sometimes people need to get shocked to help them realise the truth.
< Message edited by Giulia -- 1/13/2009 6:34:25 PM >
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Rejected by the world but loved by heaven
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/13/2009 7:35:38 PM
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Robert_G
Posts: 197
Joined: 1/8/2006
From: British Columbia, Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Bob, do you sincerely think people were saved some other way in the OT? If so, How, by works or by Law?!?!?!?
The Bible shows that neither works nor Law can save you, just as works cannot keep you - both OT & NT. That's basic Bible 101.
Grace saved and Grace kept salvation both in OT as well as NT. Failure to understand THAT spawns all kinds of false and silly notions.
You completely misunderstood my post.
I fully understand that salavation is only found by grace through faith...OT or NT times.
What I said was that David did NOT have The Holy Spirit in him when he did the evil he did....therefore he was not a Christian. In fact, the word 'Christian', didn't even exist in David's day.
If you read your scripture carefully, you'll agree that there were no Christians until Pentecost. Read Acts 2 and you'll see.
If I were to ask you if we needed The Holy Spirit in us to be Christians, you would agree that we do.
A person without The Holy Spirit in them is not a Christian...simple as that. Paul states in Romans that The Holy Spirit is our 'seal' from God that we are His.
So no, I have 0 silly notions about Grace in either the OT or the NT.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/13/2009 10:35:26 PM
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Mindy-and-Me
Posts: 233
Joined: 1/2/2009
Status: offline
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Giulia - Do you literally mean that you have lived nine lives???
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