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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/14/2009 7:05:47 PM
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Giulia
Posts: 587
Joined: 9/29/2005
From: Giulia
Status: offline
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Victory 444, why don't you write the stuff you wrote me in a PM on here as you said earlier, it is good material for people to learn with. I don't understand how you give credence to me disrespecting you over my refusal to accept your assessment of me. If I have been made whole I have been made whole. I do NOT accept your assessment that I am not and it's ridiculous that you should feel I disrespected you by that. Or as you say "hurt a broken reed" (paraphrased). I don't hurt broken reeds ever but you are rising up trying to justify suicide and that is NOT OF THE LORD and you are rising up to tell me I am wounded when you are wrong! If telling you that you are wrong hurts you or "disrespects you" then I can't help that, I will not deny the truth! Earlier you also said the LORD gave you a poem BEFORE you committed suicide. You didn't reply when I asked you why you did it anyway. Also a broken reed does not rise up in judgement and that is what you have attempted to do to me.
Saying that people who suicide don't go to hell is basically justifying suicide Victory444. Woman you need someone who will be as gracious to you as I have been and not allow you to tell yourself or them lies and believe them.
< Message edited by Giulia -- 1/14/2009 7:22:42 PM >
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Rejected by the world but loved by heaven
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/15/2009 2:04:49 PM
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Ps103
Posts: 12147
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/15/2009 2:15:52 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 268
Joined: 4/28/2008
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Yes it is forgiven.
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Some want to live within the sound of church or chapel bell; I want to run a rescue shop within a yard of hell."
- C.L. Studd
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/15/2009 2:17:42 PM
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GodsMusic
Posts: 713
Joined: 4/3/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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There is not one place in scripture that shows people who commit suicide are in saving favor with God. No one.
Saul wasn't and neither was Judas.
So why get on this public board and let someone who might be contemplating suicide feel like "why not, I'll just end up in paradise.
Japanese Kamikaze pilots and Muslim suicide bombers come to mind. It's a false way out. It's an eternal solution to a temporary problem.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/15/2009 3:28:21 PM
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AnswersforChrist
Posts: 4
Joined: 1/15/2009
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Saul's case had to do with avoiding his body from being abused. Judas is an entirely different story. Im sorry, but Saul is not the bad guy that many people paint him to be. The man simply wanted to kill David for envious reasons, but that does not make him a devil. David even forgave Saul after all that had occured.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/15/2009 3:35:49 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6377
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
There is not one place in scripture that shows people who commit suicide are in saving favor with God. No one.
Is there a case anywhere in scripture where a saved person who committed suicide due to a chemical imbalance in the brain was pronounced doomed to hell for all of eternity for that single act of unreasoned action?
quote:
So why get on this public board and let someone who might be contemplating suicide feel like "why not, I'll just end up in paradise.
Please point out a single post in this long thread where anyone has suggested such a thing or that any Christian would be so cavalier?
Thanks in advance.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/15/2009 3:43:12 PM
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Mindy-and-Me
Posts: 233
Joined: 1/2/2009
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quote:
quote:
quote:
So why get on this public board and let someone who might be contemplating suicide feel like "why not, I'll just end up in paradise.
Please point out a single post in this long thread where anyone has suggested such a thing or that any Christian would be so cavalier?
Thanks in advance.
Eutychus - all the people on this Post who says that suicide will be forgiven are telling people that very thing. (in bold)
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/15/2009 4:18:25 PM
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Victory444
Posts: 134
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
There is not one place in scripture that shows people who commit suicide are in saving favor with God. No one.
Is there a case anywhere in scripture where a saved person who committed suicide due to a chemical imbalance in the brain was pronounced doomed to hell for all of eternity for that single act of unreasoned action?
quote:
So why get on this public board and let someone who might be contemplating suicide feel like "why not, I'll just end up in paradise.
Please point out a single post in this long thread where anyone has suggested such a thing or that any Christian would be so cavalier?
Thanks in advance.
*******************************************************************************
Eutychus, Thank you for your post!!!! I am so glad that you seem to be including me as you have indicated that you have not seen anyone who has had a cavalier attitude here about suicide. I have certainly NOT recommended suicide! I have merely tried to put the people at ease whose loved ones have committed suicide. And I have tried to make it clear that I agree with the ones who have said that our loving Father certainly takes into account the mental state of the person who is able to follow through with it. It is certainly something you would NOT expect of a person while in their right mind!
It seems to me that we should all try to be understanding and loving to one another, and maybe people who feel that urge won't feel like their life is not worth living. I have seen a lot of people in my life who kick people when they are down. I tried to let people know how it feels to get that hurt and hopeless. I don't recall anyone mentioning that satan has something to do with it. I seriously doubt that the Lord would allow anyone to go to hell for a successful attack of satan at their lowest, most vulnerable point. But, I believe it is good for there to be doubt in the mind of a person who is considering suicide. It may save a life for certain people to not know the answer.
_____________________________
In His Precious Love, Victory444
Psalm 118:17 & 18 "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord. The Lord hath chastened me sore: but He hath not given me over unto death."
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/15/2009 4:25:01 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6377
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mindy-and-Me
quote:
quote:
quote:
So why get on this public board and let someone who might be contemplating suicide feel like "why not, I'll just end up in paradise.
Please point out a single post in this long thread where anyone has suggested such a thing or that any Christian would be so cavalier?
Thanks in advance.
Eutychus - all the people on this Post who says that suicide will be forgiven are telling people that very thing. (in bold)
Well, I do not believe a person automatically goes to hell for committing suicide and I reject the silly notion that any sane person would commit suicide to get a quick trip to heaven or should expect such a thing.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/15/2009 8:12:19 PM
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Robert_G
Posts: 197
Joined: 1/8/2006
From: British Columbia, Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
There is not one place in scripture that shows people who commit suicide are in saving favor with God. No one.
Is there a case anywhere in scripture where a saved person who committed suicide due to a chemical imbalance in the brain was pronounced doomed to hell for all of eternity for that single act of unreasoned action?
No, and the reason is because back then, they didn't have this cultural thing of looking for someone or something to blame for every little trial that happened in their lives.
Christians need to learn how to have God help them work THROUGH their problems, but instead..most expect God to TAKE AWAY their problems....and when he doesn't, they think they are the most harddone people in the world, and having every right to be depressed. And then....when the doctor tells them they 'might' have some sort of brain disorder, they feel even more justified.
The end result is they are so caught up in their 'problem', they forget who they are, why God created them, and are pretty much useless for the work of God's kingdom.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Well, I do not believe a person automatically goes to hell for committing suicide and I reject the silly notion that any sane person would commit suicide to get a quick trip to heaven or should expect such a thing.
You're going about this backwards. I'll say it again. It's not that suicide isn't forgivable. The fact remains that the 'majority' of suicides are from people who were NEVER Christians in the first place. Therefore the issue of forgiveness is totally irrelevant.
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..............
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 8:47:12 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6377
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
Christians need to learn how to have God help them work THROUGH their problems, but instead..most expect God to TAKE AWAY their problems....and when he doesn't, they think they are the most harddone people in the world, and having every right to be depressed. And then....when the doctor tells them they 'might' have some sort of brain disorder, they feel even more justified.
The end result is they are so caught up in their 'problem', they forget who they are, why God created them, and are pretty much useless for the work of God's kingdom.
Bobby, you simply do not understand that clinical depression isn't an attitude, it's like having a raging 105 degree temperature or a massive amount of alcohol or drugs forced by someone else into your system to distort your ability to reason and make rational choices.
You are strying to judge and hold others according to your current state of mind.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 8:50:45 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6377
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
You're going about this backwards. I'll say it again. It's not that suicide isn't forgivable. The fact remains that the 'majority' of suicides are from people who were NEVER Christians in the first place. Therefore the issue of forgiveness is totally irrelevant.
In those cases, you are right. It's totally irrelevant. But that is not the concern of this thread. It's about people that have given their heart to Jesus, repented, and born again and have, as a result of brain abnormalities that MOST people never experience, commit suicide.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 11:49:31 AM
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JustJeannie
Posts: 4395
Joined: 6/14/2007
From: the state of confusion
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I agree with you that no one but God truly knows. I mean, do we know in the here and now with any certainty that Adolph Hitler is in hell, as many people believe he should be? NO, there is no way to know for a fact on this side of eternity anyone's true heart relationship with God.
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Jeannie
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 12:46:42 PM
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PinkCarnations
Posts: 10816
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Focusing
quote:
ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters
I sure hope suicide is forgiven.
He made this post on the 12th .......... then I read this and it saddened me beyond words. 
I don't know if one is connected to the other.
I am sorry to hear that he has passed on. I didn't post in very many of the same threads as he did.
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Thank you Veterans.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 12:47:15 PM
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GodsMusic
Posts: 713
Joined: 4/3/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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I know one thing, I wouldn't want the blood from self-inflicted wounds on my hands.
Until someone can show me one single place in scripture (there isn't any) where suicide offenders are saved, I'll use the scripture 1JN 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.. Suicide is self-MURDER.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 12:48:59 PM
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Victory444
Posts: 134
Status: offline
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Focusing, I am so sorry for your pain. I, too, thought this thread was supposed to be positive and helpful. I am a personal suicide survivor, miraculously still alive/alive again. I shared my story in the hopes of putting some people's minds at ease...but, I have even been accused of "promoting suicide". I don't think anyone who hasn't been through it on either end of it can truly know the pain involved, or the mental state the person has to be in who does it. There are a lot of opinions here, but, very few who can speak from experience.
I agree about us not knowing the condition of a person's heart, and that ONLY God can know that, and we may be very surprised about who we see in Heaven! We hear about death row salvation and repentance, but, how does anyone know what goes on between a person and the Lord as they are dying?! Who can say that that person didn't choose to receive Christ as their Savior at that moment if they weren't already saved!? Who can prove that they didn't repent if necessary for suicide?!
My maternal grandmother did succeed at suicide, and that put a family curse in our family, and I have fought against that family curse ever since. God Himself saved my life and put the prayer of salvation on my lips as I was attempting to cut my wrists way back in 1979, so, I know that He doesn't need human intervention to save a person! I had an emotional meltdown in 1995 when I succeeded at suicide... temporarily. I know I was allowed to go through with that for a purpose/to help people...not to "promote suicide", or to "defend it", or any of the other absurd things I have been accused of for sharing part of my story... It was so that I can help others who have those urges, and to help put at ease the minds of people who have lost loved ones to suicide, and I believe they deserve to be comforted. Yes, this is a painful subject to discuss, but, it is painful for the ones who are hurting over lost loved ones, and I don't believe they should just be left to languish in that pain because it is too painful for others to discuss. I think the thread should remain, but, I think the ones who think it is their job to add more pain to those of us who have survived suicide in one way or another should leave this thread, or remain silent, and let the rest of us help each other heal. That's just my opinion.
_____________________________
In His Precious Love, Victory444
Psalm 118:17 & 18 "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord. The Lord hath chastened me sore: but He hath not given me over unto death."
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 1:26:04 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10577
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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Fortunately, God's mercy and love far surpasses what I see in this thread. When Jesus died and rose again, it wasn't so that only certain sins could be forgiven and only certain people with certain struggles would be saved.
When we are saved, we do not suddently become perfect, with no struggles, no temptations and the ability to perfectly follow Christ. Period. End of story. If you do not and have never struggled in this area, you should be on your knees, thanking God every minute of every day. You are beyond blessed.
There are many things that folks do that I can't comprehend how a believer can do that. Of course, there are many struggles that I, a believer, deal with that others may wonder how a believer can struggle with that. It isn't up to me to decide which sins are unpardonable. God's Word has already spelled that out for us - and suicide ain't it.
As far as a believer never struggling in this area? I would challenge those who believe this to find one single Scripture that would support that idea. Here's a hint. You won't find it. In fact, may I refer you to Romans 7:14-25. 
Suicide is a sin that causes pain and heartache that most of us can never comprehend. My heart grieves for those who know this pain - either as a survivor or it's victim. Yet, it is still a sin like any other and God promises us that no matter how wretched we are, we are covered by the blood of the Lamb and made white as snow. There is no "unless" in Scripture. We ARE forgiven.
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~Kristin~
Did you ever notice there are no recipes for leftover chocolate?
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 1:55:12 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 18169
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Here . . . but subject to change; stay tuned
Status: offline
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Kristin - Thank You. A most excellent post!
For those who have lost loved ones to suicide or who have attempted suicide themselves, I have created a suicide support thread HERE.
Please note that it is NOT a debate thread; leave the debating to this thread.
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❖ Let's Discuss the Advent Season ❖
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 2:13:35 PM
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Mindy-and-Me
Posts: 233
Joined: 1/2/2009
Status: offline
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If a person believes OSAS, then they believe that a person who commits suicide will go to Heaven.
IF a person does not believe OSAS, then they know that a person who commits suicide will not go to Heaven. The only way is if a person doesn't die immediately and has time to repent, but I sure wouldn't want to take that chance.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 2:17:19 PM
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JustJeannie
Posts: 4395
Joined: 6/14/2007
From: the state of confusion
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mindy-and-Me
If a person believes OSAS, then they believe that a person who commits suicide will go to Heaven.
IF a person does not believe OSAS, then they know that a person who commits suicide will not go to Heaven. The only way is if a person doesn't die immediately and has time to repent, but I sure wouldn't want to take that chance.
I have a problem with that bolded, underlined part. First sentence says, believe/believe. Second says believe/know. YOU, nor anyone else, KNOWS anything until you are on THAT side of eternity. End of story!
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Jeannie
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 2:54:48 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6377
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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I think one must have an inflated ego to think that any clinically depressed person is waiting for their "permission" or condemnation before making a decision on whether or not to commit suicide. It also shows a lack of understanding and a lack of compassion for the condition.
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Even though they were not me they were using my body. I have just been through many miraculous situations. I have been shot at and stabbed and I have overdosed and woke up one morning with a pillow over my head and getting punched repeatedly so the Lord has taken me through many hairy situations. It's a figure of speech really.
B 
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 
