|
|
|
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 3:04:50 PM
|
|
|
His_4_Ever
Posts: 739
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho (relocated from California 6 yrs ago)
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
There is not one place in scripture that shows people who commit suicide are in saving favor with God. No one.
Is there a case anywhere in scripture where a saved person who committed suicide due to a chemical imbalance in the brain was pronounced doomed to hell for all of eternity for that single act of unreasoned action?
No, and the reason is because back then, they didn't have this cultural thing of looking for someone or something to blame for every little trial that happened in their lives.
Christians need to learn how to have God help them work THROUGH their problems, but instead..most expect God to TAKE AWAY their problems....and when he doesn't, they think they are the most harddone people in the world, and having every right to be depressed. And then....when the doctor tells them they 'might' have some sort of brain disorder, they feel even more justified.
The end result is they are so caught up in their 'problem', they forget who they are, why God created them, and are pretty much useless for the work of God's kingdom.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Well, I do not believe a person automatically goes to hell for committing suicide and I reject the silly notion that any sane person would commit suicide to get a quick trip to heaven or should expect such a thing.
You're going about this backwards. I'll say it again. It's not that suicide isn't forgivable. The fact remains that the 'majority' of suicides are from people who were NEVER Christians in the first place. Therefore the issue of forgiveness is totally irrelevant.
Robert_G you have no idea what a person who is contemplating suicide goes through. People who commit suicide come from all walks of life. They can be Christian, be successful, have happy marriages etc.. In fact I'd say people who appear to have it all are probably the ones most prone to commit suicide. To say the majority of people who commit suicide were never Christians in the first place and forgiveness is irrelevant, only further shows your lack of understanding. I've heard it said many times suicide is the easy way out or that the person was weak and didn't have enough faith, but that couldn't be furthest from the truth. I would wager suicide is probably the most traumatic, painful and hardest thing a person could do. Sometimes the "problem" isn't realized or there isn't anything a person can single-out to explain what's going on inside them. Everything isn't always cut and dry.
Here is one major example of Suicide from the Bible:
"28 Then Samson called to the Lord, saying, “O Lord God, premember me, I pray! Strengthen me, I pray, just this once, O God, that I may with one blow take vengeance on the Philistines for my two eyes!” 29 And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars which supported the temple, and he braced himself against them, one on his right and the other on his left. 30 Then Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines!” And he pushed with all his might, and the temple fell on the lords and all the people who were in it. So the dead that he killed at his death were more than he had killed in his life." (Jdg 16:28-30)
Samson even asked God for strength to commit suicide and received it. I don't believe he is unforgiven. He could have asked for God to spare his life, but he didn't he asked to die and God let him.
_____________________________
I asked the wise man on the mountain what the secret of a long life was.....and now I would like to pass on his words of wisdom to you.
("Keep breathing as long as possible!")
SIH Perm. Blocked
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 3:37:51 PM
|
|
|
Victory444
Posts: 134
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
Kristin - Thank You. A most excellent post!
For those who have lost loved ones to suicide or who have attempted suicide themselves, I have created a suicide support thread HERE.
Please note that it is NOT a debate thread; leave the debating to this thread.
************************************************************
I so totally agree that that was "a most excellent post"... It brought me to tears. Thank you for that post, and my thanks to the others who have also shown some true compassion and good spiritual sense about this sensitive situation, and toward those of us who have suffered through it.
I need to say that, before I survived suicide, because I had suffered so much abuse and rejection, I felt like I had no value, and like I and others would be better off if I were dead. Having the Lord give HIS opinion by preserving my life totally changed my life. I now feel that I have just as much right to take up room on this planet as anyone else.
I want to thank you for the suicide SUPPORT thread. I am going to go check that out.
Edited to remove some of the asterisks that are stretching out the page
< Message edited by Kath -- 1/17/2009 2:29:34 PM >
_____________________________
In His Precious Love, Victory444
Psalm 118:17 & 18 "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord. The Lord hath chastened me sore: but He hath not given me over unto death."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 4:13:19 PM
|
|
|
Retro80s
Posts: 277
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline
|
This issue largely comes down to one's belief about salvation - whether they believe in OSAS or conditional salvation. Since those that believe in OSAS believe that a Christian can not return to a lost state, they believe that suicide does not affect one's salvation (or they believe that the act of suicide would be possible evidence that the person was never saved to begin with). Those that believe in conditional security would believe that suicide would cause the person who was a Christian to no longer be saved, or they would believe that the act of suicide would be possible evidence that the person had fallen away from Christ and was no longer saved (or also would be possible evidence that the person was never saved to begin with).
_____________________________
http://www.abort73.com
See for Yourself
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 5:09:03 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 6354
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: CCCdnt
This issue largely comes down to one's belief about salvation - whether they believe in OSAS or conditional salvation.
Again, I disagree. I've been on both sides of perseverance of the saints doctrine, but that issue was entirely was irrelevant after I discovered that the majority of suicides come from people with mental disorders.
As a society, we do not condone the execution of someone mentally incompetent. If we being evil can show that little bit of mercy, how much more so a good heavenly Father... to paraphrase Jesus.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 5:11:46 PM
|
|
|
WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 18169
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Here . . . but subject to change; stay tuned
Status: offline
|
Euty, I no longer come to this thread as often as I used to . . . but I'm here now, and I want to tell you how much I appreciate your posts in here.
Thank you!!!
_____________________________
❖ Let's Discuss the Advent Season ❖
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 5:49:09 PM
|
|
|
Mindy-and-Me
Posts: 233
Joined: 1/2/2009
Status: offline
|
I know that a person can be clinically depressed and also be a born-again Christian. However, the belief that they would go to Hell if they committed suicide should keep them from committing that sin. If they believe and have been taught that they will go to Heaven if they commit suicide, then they most likely will go ahead and do it.
I do not think that we are supposed to talk about our own situations, experiences and backgrounds, but I will tell you that I know what I am talking about. If I hadn't been raised to believe that a person goes to Hell if they committed suicide, I would not be alive right now. I am confident that there are many people on this board who are Christians, yet would admit to having the same feelings sometime in their life when totally overloaded and overwhelmed with problems, troubles, losses, financial problems, heartache, grief, or all of that together at the same time. I have been there, and thank Jesus I held onto what I was taught and I am alive today to enjoy my life.
Having all that happen to a person is bad enough, but if they are clinically depressed they may not be able to handle that kind of load. They need to be taught that they will go to Hell if they take their own lives and hopefully that will give them enough fear to prevent them from doing that. It worked for me.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 5:53:22 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 6354
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mindy-and-Me
....However, the belief that they would go to Hell if they committed suicide should keep them from committing that sin....
So it's definitely a sin?
Again, people who are clinically depressed do not commit suicide based on whether someone gives them a go-ahead or if you tell 'em they are going to fry forever and ever and ever and ever.
It does not work that way.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 5:57:09 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 6354
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mindy-and-Me
....If I hadn't been raised to believe that a person goes to Hell if they committed suicide, I would not be alive right now. I am confident that there are many people on this board who are Christians, yet would admit to having the same feelings sometime in their life when totally overloaded and overwhelmed with problems, troubles, losses, financial problems, heartache, grief, or all of that together at the same time. I have been there, and thank Jesus I held onto what I was taught and I am alive today to enjoy my life....
Are you on medication to control your chemical imbalance?
Or did you experience what most of us have gone through, a sad, depressing, even overwhelming period that you made it through without intervention. I have and know many, many people that have. None of us I'm talking about are clinically depressed and can hardly even imagine what that really means.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 6:23:34 PM
|
|
|
Victory444
Posts: 134
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mindy-and-Me
....However, the belief that they would go to Hell if they committed suicide should keep them from committing that sin....
So it's definitely a sin?
Again, people who are clinically depressed do not commit suicide based on whether someone gives them a go-ahead or if you tell 'em they are going to fry forever and ever and ever and ever.
It does not work that way.
*************************************************************
I don't want to post here again, because of how I was treated for it... But, I am still reading the posts, and I just want to tell you that it really makes me happy to read your posts, and to see you standing up and speaking truths that some can't see, or refuse to see. You are so right on!
I think you should change your outfit to something super-hero-ish. You certainly feel like a hero to me... second to Jesus, of course.
Edited to remove some of the asterisks that are stretching out the page
< Message edited by Kath -- 1/17/2009 2:30:51 PM >
_____________________________
In His Precious Love, Victory444
Psalm 118:17 & 18 "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord. The Lord hath chastened me sore: but He hath not given me over unto death."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 6:47:38 PM
|
|
|
GodsMusic
Posts: 713
Joined: 4/3/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Victory444
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Again, people who are clinically depressed do not commit suicide based on whether someone gives them a go-ahead or if you tell 'em they are going to fry forever and ever and ever and ever.
It does not work that way.
*******************************************************
I don't want to post here again, because of how I was treated for it... But, I am still reading the posts, and I just want to tell you that it really makes me happy to read your posts, and to see you standing up and speaking truths that some can't see, or refuse to see. You are so right on!
I think you should change your outfit to something super-hero-ish. You certainly feel like a hero to me... second to Jesus, of course.
Wrong. He's telling something that is false. Murdering oneself is a sin.
This 'chemical imbalanced" thing is not a fact, but theory. But regardless, if suicide isn't sin, then neither is murdering your neighbor if you done it because you were "depressed".
Eutychus, a few have lauded you on here. Trust me, I'm not impressed with your posts.
Edited to remove some of the asterisks that are stretching out the page
< Message edited by Kath -- 1/17/2009 2:31:59 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 7:21:03 PM
|
|
|
delete123
Posts: 540
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
quote:
ORIGINAL: Victory444
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Again, people who are clinically depressed do not commit suicide based on whether someone gives them a go-ahead or if you tell 'em they are going to fry forever and ever and ever and ever.
It does not work that way.
*********************************************************
I don't want to post here again, because of how I was treated for it... But, I am still reading the posts, and I just want to tell you that it really makes me happy to read your posts, and to see you standing up and speaking truths that some can't see, or refuse to see. You are so right on!
I think you should change your outfit to something super-hero-ish. You certainly feel like a hero to me... second to Jesus, of course.
Wrong. He's telling something that is false. Murdering oneself is a sin.
This 'chemical imbalanced" thing is not a fact, but theory. But regardless, if suicide isn't sin, then neither is murdering your neighbor if you done it because you were "depressed".
Eutychus, a few have lauded you on here. Trust me, I'm not impressed with your posts.
I did not realize that today was judgement day!
You do not know for a FACT what God thinks, or Believes on the subject, as in many causes of the Scriptures it is not written clearly on what He says on it.
There are just glimpses that one can gleam from.
I agree with Euty 100% when he states that those who have never experienced suicide attempts or have one pass from the suicide knows how to have Compassion or really understand Mercy.
A person who commits murder can also be forgiven as well. And Actually on FOF they have a 3 day segment on the Son of Sam (?) the NY murderer who killed several people, who thanks God that he did not receive the death penalty for killing the 9 people that he did.
He now serves God from behind bars. (nd no he is not a lunatic like Charles Manson)
You have No proof that God condemns suicide Believers to hell. As was stated in a previous post, they feared when 'told' that they would.
You also do not know the mind or thoughts behind the person during such manifestations when they attempt and whether they survive by the Grace of God, or perish by the Grace of God.
Edited to remove some of the asterisks that are stretching out the page
< Message edited by Kath -- 1/17/2009 2:32:16 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 7:22:33 PM
|
|
|
Victory444
Posts: 134
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
quote:
ORIGINAL: Victory444
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Again, people who are clinically depressed do not commit suicide based on whether someone gives them a go-ahead or if you tell 'em they are going to fry forever and ever and ever and ever.
It does not work that way.
******************************************************
I don't want to post here again, because of how I was treated for it... But, I am still reading the posts, and I just want to tell you that it really makes me happy to read your posts, and to see you standing up and speaking truths that some can't see, or refuse to see. You are so right on!
I think you should change your outfit to something super-hero-ish. You certainly feel like a hero to me... second to Jesus, of course.
Wrong. He's telling something that is false. Murdering oneself is a sin.
This 'chemical imbalanced" thing is not a fact, but theory. But regardless, if suicide isn't sin, then neither is murdering your neighbor if you done it because you were "depressed".
Eutychus, a few have lauded you on here. Trust me, I'm not impressed with your posts.
Inconceivable... I can't even NOT post my own story without getting quoted in a negative way. I didn't notice either Eutychus or me saying it isn't a sin. Whether suicide is a sin or not has not been our main point...but, the Bible says there is ONLY 1 UN-forgivable sin, and that is NOT it.
From where do you get your information that "the chemical imbalance thing is only a theory"? My whole family has a tendency toward low serotonin, among other things, and a history of suicide attempts, with a couple of successes. My daughter is now on medication, and doing fine. If you haven't truly been to the point where you can attempt suicide with the intention of succeeding, you can't possibly know what is going through that person's mind... and I can guarantee you that it is not hell...It is getting out of the only hell they CAN think of, and that is the pain that feels so unbearable that they don't feel that they can stand it another second. No person in their right mind can commit suicide. Haven't you ever heard of temporary insanity?
Edited to remove some of the asterisks that are stretching out the page
< Message edited by Kath -- 1/17/2009 2:32:40 PM >
_____________________________
In His Precious Love, Victory444
Psalm 118:17 & 18 "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord. The Lord hath chastened me sore: but He hath not given me over unto death."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 7:27:24 PM
|
|
|
His_4_Ever
Posts: 739
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho (relocated from California 6 yrs ago)
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
quote:
ORIGINAL: Victory444
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Again, people who are clinically depressed do not commit suicide based on whether someone gives them a go-ahead or if you tell 'em they are going to fry forever and ever and ever and ever.
It does not work that way.
*******************************************************
I don't want to post here again, because of how I was treated for it... But, I am still reading the posts, and I just want to tell you that it really makes me happy to read your posts, and to see you standing up and speaking truths that some can't see, or refuse to see. You are so right on!
I think you should change your outfit to something super-hero-ish. You certainly feel like a hero to me... second to Jesus, of course.
Wrong. He's telling something that is false. Murdering oneself is a sin.
This 'chemical imbalanced" thing is not a fact, but theory. But regardless, if suicide isn't sin, then neither is murdering your neighbor if you done it because you were "depressed".
Eutychus, a few have lauded you on here. Trust me, I'm not impressed with your posts.
So, you're saying if someone isn't the right mind to know or value what they're doing, it still is sin. I don't believe Jesus thought that way about the man who had many demons in him and was crazy. Jesus knew the man was not responsible for his actions. The question here isn't even about whether suicide is a sin, it's about whether or not suicide can be forgiven. If murder can be forgiven, why would God then not forgive suicide? Read post #601.
Edited to remove some of the asterisks that are stretching out the page
< Message edited by Kath -- 1/17/2009 2:33:02 PM >
_____________________________
I asked the wise man on the mountain what the secret of a long life was.....and now I would like to pass on his words of wisdom to you.
("Keep breathing as long as possible!")
SIH Perm. Blocked
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 8:45:35 PM
|
|
|
Victory444
Posts: 134
Status: offline
|
His_4_Ever, I for one love your posts. I haven't been sure if my suicide was a sin or not, all I was ever SURE of is that I was FORGIVEN, and I NEVER felt that hell was a threat! I have been a Christian for a very long time, and I know that I TRULY am one! I know the conviction from the Holy Spirit, and I have had some very tearful times of feeling under conviction for one thing or another, but, He NEVER beat me up over my suicide attempt! In my case, it was not clinical depression that caused me to break to the point where I could follow through with it. It was, as I have said, an incident that was so devastating to me that I thought even God had betrayed me. I do know that I couldn't have been in my right mind at that moment. I wouldn't dare tell the rest of my story here! You might understand, but, I don't believe more than one other one would. I just want you to know that I really appreciate your posts. They have really helped me. Thank you. Now would you be the one to respond to the posts I may get for posting this to you? 
_____________________________
In His Precious Love, Victory444
Psalm 118:17 & 18 "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord. The Lord hath chastened me sore: but He hath not given me over unto death."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 8:56:36 PM
|
|
|
PinkCarnations
Posts: 10816
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
This 'chemical imbalanced" thing is not a fact, but theory. But regardless, if suicide isn't sin, then neither is murdering your neighbor if you done it because you were "depressed".
I think you should take that statement to the MENTAL HEALTH DEBATE (<-- clickable link) and see what others think.
_____________________________
Thank you Veterans.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 10:45:49 PM
|
|
|
phosadaud
Posts: 10572
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
|
I just wanted to make 2 points:
1. Not believe in OSAS does not necessitate believing that a person who commits suicide is going to hell. Most who are not OSAS believe that one does not lose their salvation by committing a sin and not repenting fast enough. That is simply wrong. When Jesus promised the thief dying next to him on the cross that he would be with him in paradise, he didn't put a caveat in there about making sure he repends really fast if he sins before he dies. One does not have to live in fear that they will be struck by a meteor and not have time to repent of the last sin they committed. Most who are not OSAS believe that it is a conscious decision over time to deliberately walk away from God and reject the gift they were given. Committing a sin or forgetting to confess one is not deliberately choosing to reject God. It is a part of the human condition - the part that Christ died for on the cross. All that to say that believing OSAS or not has nothing to do with whether one believes suicide is somehow the one exception to God's promise that ALL our sins are forgiven.
2. Medical conditions including hormonal, structural defects, etc. do affect personality and actions. That IS a fact. Ask anyone who has cared for or known someone who had a serious head injury with permanent brain damage. Or ask someone who cares for someone with Alzheimers. Or has thyroid problems. Etc. Can those things lead to suicide? I don't know how that could be scientifically proven as a fact, but anecdotally, the evidence is overwhelming. Personally, I would rather chew glass than heap horrendous guilt and condemnation on someone who struggles because of these issues - whether it can be seen in a petri dish or not.
3. Some have said that we should tell folks they will go to hell if they commit suicide to prevent them from doing the act. WRONG. That is lying and spiritual abuse and IMHO one of the most heartless things you can do to someone who is in such pain. What they need is LOVE not a lie. What they need is TRUTH to defeat the lies of the enemy. A LIE should never be used to combat another LIE. Period.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Did you ever notice there are no recipes for leftover chocolate?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 10:54:53 PM
|
|
|
Kath
Posts: 17284
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: offline
|
I just deleted a few posts that, at second glance ought not be posted in this thread. Please do not post messages in this thread about other members who may/may not have committed suicide. Lets just debate whether or not suicide is forgiven. Thank you.
Sincerely
Kath
Volunteer Assistant Administrator
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message as I am unable to discuss it further.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns allowing time for a response during normal business hours.
Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.
Please review our FAQ for an explanation as to why one cannot confront a moderator directly.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/16/2009 11:14:57 PM
|
|
|
His_4_Ever
Posts: 739
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho (relocated from California 6 yrs ago)
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Victory444
His_4_Ever, I for one love your posts. I haven't been sure if my suicide was a sin or not, all I was ever SURE of is that I was FORGIVEN, and I NEVER felt that hell was a threat! I have been a Christian for a very long time, and I know that I TRULY am one! I know the conviction from the Holy Spirit, and I have had some very tearful times of feeling under conviction for one thing or another, but, He NEVER beat me up over my suicide attempt! In my case, it was not clinical depression that caused me to break to the point where I could follow through with it. It was, as I have said, an incident that was so devastating to me that I thought even God had betrayed me. I do know that I couldn't have been in my right mind at that moment. I wouldn't dare tell the rest of my story here! You might understand, but, I don't believe more than one other one would. I just want you to know that I really appreciate your posts. They have really helped me. Thank you. Now would you be the one to respond to the posts I may get for posting this to you?
First Kath gotta love your new avatar!!!  Looks like me in the morning.
Victor, I appreciate your liking my posts. I totally understand where your coming from as a suicide survivor myself.
Here's my story:
It was in 2003 I attempted suicide. I prayed and had a long conversation with God before I made my attempt. I don't know what really drove me to it, I had been diagnosed with Moderate depression. However, at the time I wasn't feeling particularly sad. I prayed to God to forgive me for what I was about to do and told him I was tired of all the evil, killing etc.. in this world and to be ready to beam me up. I told him I wanted to be with him. I then overdosed on some serious medication, having been in the medical field I knew what to take. I died on the way to the hospital for like 4 minutes. I was in critical condition. After the first night my organs began shutting down and the doctors told my parents I wasn't going to make it. If I did I would be severely brain damaged. My parents decided to keep me on life support until all my family could arrive to say good-bye and they had already started making funeral arrangements. The morning they were suppose to disconnect me, I woke up. I guess God wasn't ready for me just yet. As far as any near death experience all I can remember is laying in dark room, but I could tell there were others laying around me also. I was scared at first, then I started feeling a nice serene calmness overtake me. Just when I was totally comfortable someone opened a door letting in a bright light and called me out. I didn't want to go, but I had to go. I feel like that was when God kicked me out of my rest and back to planet earth. I was the miracle child of the hospital because I most definitely should have died. They tested all of my organs and everything checked perfect. I know it was all God's doing. I was then diagnosed as bi-polar, put the right meds and having doing o.k. since. I still have up and down times, though not as drastic as they used to be. My faith is probably the strongest it's ever been and now I try to help others as much as I can.
Obiviously, I believe God forgave me and would have forgiven me even if I had died. God can forgive anything he wants too.
_____________________________
I asked the wise man on the mountain what the secret of a long life was.....and now I would like to pass on his words of wisdom to you.
("Keep breathing as long as possible!")
SIH Perm. Blocked
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/17/2009 10:44:57 AM
|
|
|
GodsMusic
Posts: 713
Joined: 4/3/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: His_4_Ever
Here's my story:
It was in 2003 I attempted suicide. I prayed and had a long conversation with God before I made my attempt. I don't know what really drove me to it, I had been diagnosed with Moderate depression. However, at the time I wasn't feeling particularly sad. I prayed to God to forgive me for what I was about to do and told him I was tired of all the evil, killing etc.. in this world and to be ready to beam me up. I told him I wanted to be with him. I then overdosed on some serious medication, having been in the medical field I knew what to take. I died on the way to the hospital for like 4 minutes. I was in critical condition. After the first night my organs began shutting down and the doctors told my parents I wasn't going to make it. If I did I would be severely brain damaged. My parents decided to keep me on life support until all my family could arrive to say good-bye and they had already started making funeral arrangements. The morning they were suppose to disconnect me, I woke up. I guess God wasn't ready for me just yet. As far as any near death experience all I can remember is laying in dark room, but I could tell there were others laying around me also. I was scared at first, then I started feeling a nice serene calmness overtake me. Just when I was totally comfortable someone opened a door letting in a bright light and called me out. I didn't want to go, but I had to go. I feel like that was when God kicked me out of my rest and back to planet earth. I was the miracle child of the hospital because I most definitely should have died. They tested all of my organs and everything checked perfect. I know it was all God's doing. I was then diagnosed as bi-polar, put the right meds and having doing o.k. since. I still have up and down times, though not as drastic as they used to be. My faith is probably the strongest it's ever been and now I try to help others as much as I can.
Obiviously, I believe God forgave me and would have forgiven me even if I had died. God can forgive anything he wants too.
"Beam me up"? LOL. Sounds like Star Trek.
I'm not going to give the gory details of my situation, but suffice it to say I have felt several times over the last 6 years that my life wasn't worth it anymore because of so much evil that had inflicted me and my family.
I've felt like dying. Contemplating. Sick and tired of the pain. In the heat of the moment, and the storm of the battle. What to do. Thoughts of suicide crept in. What to do. I knew in my heart that suicide would not only be turning my back on my family, but also my God. I knew in my heart of hearts that I would face the judgment of God, and I knew I would not be saved.
Tons of people can get on here and tell some story. How we feel don't really mean a thing, though when it comes to the question of this thread.
What does scripture say? Will God just beam us up to paradise? Hardly!
Someone wants to bring up Sampson. This was NOT suicide, but a heroic act of war against the enemy. He prayed God to give him strength to push the pillars down to destroy the enemy! Again, NOT suicide.
Two examples of someone in scripture committing suicide:
1. Judas Iscariot. If you think this man was saved, then nothing I say will convince you of anything. The man died without salvation.
2. The former King Saul. He became rejected of God even before death. Icabod, or "the Spirit has departed". The man was unrepentant, and trying to murder God's anointed was his agenda.
We can go out and kill someone praying "God forgive me, I just can't help myself", but that doesn't mean we will be forgiven. Suicide is no different. You can convince yourself to ease your conscience, but that doesn't mean God's says "Ok, come on up. Your forgiven".
Think of how SELFISH the act of suicide is. Leaving people that love you to hurt. Leaving people that love you in despair. Leaving people that love you to clean up your mess. Leaving people that love you to live the rest of their lifetime trying to answer questions. Many times filled with unnecessary guilt of "what could I have done?"
God has a better way, and that is called faith in Him.
"But without faith, it is impossible to please God, for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."
Suicide is a complete lack of faith. It's tempting God. It's taking God's control of life out of God's hands and unrightfully taking control of life. "God I'm gonna pull the plug. I'm not leaving it to you. But I'm asking forgiveness (not repentance...big difference) so you are required to forgive me." That's not reality.
It's not forgiven. It's not a way out.
< Message edited by GodsMusic -- 1/17/2009 11:32:01 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/17/2009 12:16:06 PM
|
|
|
WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 18169
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Here . . . but subject to change; stay tuned
Status: offline
|
Kristine, we REALLY need an applauding, standing ovation smiley.
_____________________________
❖ Let's Discuss the Advent Season ❖
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/17/2009 1:21:46 PM
|
|
|
Psalms274
Posts: 2867
Status: offline
|
quote:
Suicide is a complete lack of faith. It's tempting God. It's taking God's control of life out of God's hands and unrightfully taking control of life.
You can take out the word suicide and insert any kind of sin/inequities and this statement would be true ... yet God's word says, " Praise the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits- who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases, who redeems your life from the pit and crowns you with love and compassion ..."
I am grateful that your personal conviction has prevented you from taking your own life because God does have wonderful plans for you in-store here in the land of the living (Psalms 27:13) ... but God does indeed forgive suicide. The problem when someone commits suicide is they can no longer be used by God to reach those He had plans for you to reach in your lifetime (though He will still complete His plan). It leaves behind a terrible void and guilt by those who love you, many whom you would probably not even think about when you make the attempt. It is indeed a very selfish act that cannot be taken back. Often the one who goes to this extreme does indeed have an imbalance that does not allow them to see things clearly. And yes, those chemical imbalances can be proven by science. There is a clear difference in the brain scan of someone who is in the deep depressive mode of the bipolar cycle, even a novice would see the difference. That is not an excuse, but rather an explanation.
Certainly suicide is a sin, but it is not the unforgivable sin of denying Christ as your Savior. If Jesus were to come before I had a chance to repent from something I just thought or did, I would still be taken up with Him. Can you imagine having just thought something you need to repent of and in that moment He comes, and you are left behind? Thank goodness we do not have to run around worrying about that. In the same way, though the sinner who commits suicide does not have a chance to repent, they are still covered by the blood if they are His child. Now they probably lost a bit of their mansion with that act since they will no longer get to be used by God,  but they are forgiven.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/17/2009 1:32:35 PM
|
|
|
PinkCarnations
Posts: 10816
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
It's not forgiven.
So if you go to the dr. and he tells you that you need to cut out the fat in your diet and exercise more, but you ignore that warning and you have a heart attack and die. Are you forgiven?
_____________________________
Thank you Veterans.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is suicide forgiven? - 1/17/2009 1:39:10 PM
|
|
|
GodsMusic
Posts: 713
Joined: 4/3/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
It's not forgiven.
So if you go to the dr. and he tells you that you need to cut out the fat in your diet and exercise more, but you ignore that warning and you have a heart attack and die. Are you forgiven?
That's quite a stretch don't you think?
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
