RE: is suicide forgiven? (Full Version)

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Kornelyus -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/1/2008 9:26:06 AM)

Jesus Christ is our Lord and Saviour.
When people accept that; all of his sins are forgiven.
So if the one suicide - generally this is not a normal behaviour
Jesus Christ forgives him/her of his foolish sin. It's so sad!

But... Again... It's a sin and as important as killing a man; killing himself/herself.



doinkdom -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/1/2008 9:36:05 AM)

What is our role as a fellow Christian to the family of the person who committed suicide? The person who died has already reached their ultimate glorification, or not.

So surely, it is not to blame or discuss "what if's."

What if...

What if we comfort those in mourning, stand beside those grieving and love them with the love of the gospel? What if we encourage them in their hour of despair? What if we keep our mouths shut about condemnation (of which we really don't know) and instead preach to those left behind the true and whole gospel of Jesus Christ. The hope we have today and the hope we have tomorrow.

Of course, this would take longer than a handshake at an hour long funeral and might require us to invest some time and prayer into the lives of these people. They want the truth...by investing in them, they will get that truth.

Would that not be one part of the body helping another part heal and learn to glorify God in times of tragedy?



LivingParadox -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/1/2008 10:12:45 AM)

I can't help but think of instances such as the teenage girl who committed suicide because of someone abusing her on the internet. There were no good Samaritans to step up in this case although many knew of her being tortured. I wonder if this really comforts the family to know this could have been prevented?



Cephyr13 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/1/2008 10:27:56 AM)

All of these arguments are not addressing the main issue here, which is the word of Jesus. Jesus said that if you believe in Him, even though your body dies, you will never die. If you can die spiritually by committing suicide after you're born again, then that makes Jesus a liar.

Also, we're told by David in the OT (Ps 32:1-2) and by Paul in the New Testament (Romans 4:6-8) that our sins are not counted against us. How can the sin of suicide count against us if sins cannot be counted against us?



WhiteRoseBlessings -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/1/2008 11:01:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

What is our role as a fellow Christian to the family of the person who committed suicide? The person who died has already reached their ultimate glorification, or not.

So surely, it is not to blame or discuss "what if's."

What if...

What if we comfort those in mourning, stand beside those grieving and love them with the love of the gospel? What if we encourage them in their hour of despair? What if we keep our mouths shut about condemnation (of which we really don't know) and instead preach to those left behind the true and whole gospel of Jesus Christ. The hope we have today and the hope we have tomorrow.

Of course, this would take longer than a handshake at an hour long funeral and might require us to invest some time and prayer into the lives of these people. They want the truth...by investing in them, they will get that truth.

Would that not be one part of the body helping another part heal and learn to glorify God in times of tragedy?
Connie . . . from the bottom of my heart, thank you.



jfaye -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/2/2008 9:27:58 AM)

Dear Father, God,

Please do not allow anyone who reads this thread, looking for 'permission' to give in to the
temptation of the enemy, to find it here! I pray that the one who may be having such thoughts
will be protected by Your Spirit from carrying through with the 'murder of themselves, by such
'promptings' from the enemy of our souls and the one who constantly strives to throw in your
face his victories over Your people!

Give those, who despair of life, cause to rejoice. Give them more of Yourself than they ever imagined
possible for them to sense in their spirits. Give them the comfort of Your Holy Spirit and His promptings
to over-ride the promptings of the 'evil one'!

Let each of us, be so armed to do battle with the enemies, the demonic forces always looking
for a victim, that the very thought that enters the mind to do such a thing as to remove ourselves
from 'the playing field' would be instantly dismissed with the truth of your word. You have a plan
for each and every one of us, and it is not in 'the plan' that we presume to interfere with it or that
we interrupt the time You've set for us to be 'available' to work Your glory in and through us!

It is because of Jesus, that I am able to approach Your throne, with boldness, and in boldness I ask
these things in His name!! Amen!!

Psalm 139:14 "I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Your works,
And my soul knows it very well.

15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;

16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.

17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!

18 If I should count them, they would outnumber the sand
When I awake, I am still with You.

19 O that You would slay the wicked, O God;
Depart from me, therefore, men of bloodshed.

20 For they speak against You wickedly,
And Your enemies take Your name in vain
(they presume to speak for You).

21 Do I not hate those who hate You, O LORD?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?

22 I hate them with the utmost hatred;
They have become my enemies.

23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Try me and know my anxious thoughts;

24 And see if there be any hurtful (or wicked) way in me,
And lead me in the everlasting way.

Jeremiah 29:11 "For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, '
plans for welfare and not for calamity (suicide?) to give you a future and a hope.

12 'Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.

13'You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart."

[emphasis and blue font, my thoughts]



doinkdom -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/2/2008 2:12:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

What is our role as a fellow Christian to the family of the person who committed suicide? The person who died has already reached their ultimate glorification, or not.

So surely, it is not to blame or discuss "what if's."

What if...

What if we comfort those in mourning, stand beside those grieving and love them with the love of the gospel? What if we encourage them in their hour of despair? What if we keep our mouths shut about condemnation (of which we really don't know) and instead preach to those left behind the true and whole gospel of Jesus Christ. The hope we have today and the hope we have tomorrow.

Of course, this would take longer than a handshake at an hour long funeral and might require us to invest some time and prayer into the lives of these people. They want the truth...by investing in them, they will get that truth.

Would that not be one part of the body helping another part heal and learn to glorify God in times of tragedy?
Connie . . . from the bottom of my heart, thank you.


{{{{{{{WhiteRose}}}}}}}}}



Beyleigh -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/3/2008 2:52:43 AM)

I thought that suicide was the only unforgivable sin. If you kill yourself, well you can't ask for forgiveness because you're dead. And if you do it before you pull the trigger or whatever you do, you're not REALLY sorry. Else you wouldn't do it?



zagreb -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/3/2008 3:36:40 AM)

My family has a problem. It comits suicide. 2 of my cousins in my generation- My son struggles daily- my daughters (twins -17) All of us have spent time in hospital for depression. I struggle daily with the peace I know I would find in my Savior. I dont even really want an afterlife. Just disssolve. I think Jesus name would almost gurantee this for me.



PinkCarnations -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/3/2008 12:06:59 PM)

zagreb- I hope your family is able to get the help they need soon.



doinkdom -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/3/2008 12:08:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zagreb
My family has a problem. It comits suicide. 2 of my cousins in my generation- My son struggles daily- my daughters (twins -17) All of us have spent time in hospital for depression. I struggle daily with the peace I know I would find in my Savior. I dont even really want an afterlife. Just disssolve. I think Jesus name would almost gurantee this for me.


You said "would"...are you a born again Christian today?



rcjames -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/3/2008 12:38:33 PM)

This is always an interesting subject, sometimes emotional, sometimes rowdy, but always interesting.

There are the two extremes of thought; on the one hand you have the folks that believe that any uncomfessed sin would negate a trip to Glory. On the other end of the specturm you have the Ultra OSAS who believe that if the person thought they were a Christian that they could be raping a child in the middle of Sunday communion, indiscriminately killing folks with a machine gun, kill himself and the next instant be in Glory.

I personally do not agree with either of those.

I will offer two verses for consideration;

(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

and

(2Co 5:10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Christians are going to stand before Christ for judgment (judgment not necessarily condemnation) I think Christ will be a fair Judge and will consider all things (was the person really saved or was he a Matthew 7 believer, etc).

My first inclination is that the person who commits suicide was not a Christian because they were not obedient to Scripture (casting our cares on Him comes to mind, do not worry is another). This may not be the case every time, but for sure some of the time.

But this verse carries a lot of weight in my mind;

(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Thanks
RC



ladyichigo -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/3/2008 6:47:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

What is our role as a fellow Christian to the family of the person who committed suicide? The person who died has already reached their ultimate glorification, or not.

So surely, it is not to blame or discuss "what if's."

What if...

What if we comfort those in mourning, stand beside those grieving and love them with the love of the gospel? What if we encourage them in their hour of despair? What if we keep our mouths shut about condemnation (of which we really don't know) and instead preach to those left behind the true and whole gospel of Jesus Christ. The hope we have today and the hope we have tomorrow.

Of course, this would take longer than a handshake at an hour long funeral and might require us to invest some time and prayer into the lives of these people. They want the truth...by investing in them, they will get that truth.

Would that not be one part of the body helping another part heal and learn to glorify God in times of tragedy?


Wish more people in the church we used to go to thought this way during our family's hardest moment.



ladyichigo -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/3/2008 7:13:10 PM)

Thinking back, when I thought if I would ever seem dad again, I felt like I needed the answer to be yes. I needed to hear that I will see my dad again in Heaven because the devastation of losing him so suddenly by his own hands was overwhelming. I wasn't sure if I could have withstood the blow that I may not.

I'm at a point in my life where my faith does not rely on the knowledge of where my dad will spend eternity. Where he spends eternity does not affect my hope and faith I have in Christ. I may or may not see my dad again, and yes it's sad to think that I might not....I guess my point is, I don't have time to mope around thinking that I might not. I don't have time to think about the dead. What's done is done. I trust God and know He is just. Right now, I have a role to play, and that is to be Christ's witness to the living...especially my children.

If you know of a family who is going through suicide,...please pray for them, comfort them, and most importantly show them Christ's compassion and love.



Casper22 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/4/2008 6:56:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:

ORIGINAL: slewis I have question that was asked at Sunday School. Someone wanted to know what do you say to someone's family member that have committed suicide? They want to know if that person goes to heaven or not and are they forgiven? When I searched the bible, I found that Judas hanged himself and Saul fell on his sword when his armour bearer would not kill him. Can anyone comment on this subject to help me out. I informed the class that I would research the matter and get back to them.
God would know the answer to who is saved and who isn't. None of us truly knows another person's heart or exactly why God allows mental illness and depression. Do we know if all our relatives went to heaven or hell? I hope to see people in heaven that I hadn't been sure about before they died.
This subject is very near and dear to my heart it made my heart stop when I saw the subject. I am a survivor of this. My family has a history of mental instability and theres a history in my family for suicide. I will just tell you about my mom. When I was 18 she began a spiral into depression she wouldn't seek help because her Four Squair Holiness Church of God told her it showed a lack of faith if she trusted man and there prescription drugs for her healing. I was furious and scared for her but she made a cognitive decision at the time to follow her Church leadership. There were days were things were fine then there were days were she would just sit and cry and pray and read her bible then one day I got up and got ready for work and mom was up and she got up and just hugged me and said you know I love you dont you I said yes mom I know I love you to. She just smiled at me and said today is going to be a good day the Lord is going to take care of everything for now on. I just thought thank you Lord shes coming out of it. Well I leave for work and about 1:30 I get a call from my Nana she is hysterical all I could get out of her was come home now its your mom. I just bolted and went strate home I just knew she was dead. When I get home cops are everywhere so is the ambulance and the coroner had just pulled up ahead of me. When I got out Nana ran over to me and said its your mom honey shes dead. I just went numb and I ran into the house and there she was laying on the couch. She looked like she was asleep but she wasnt she had somehow gotten ahold of some tranqs and she ended her life with them. The most distressing part of it all was the why and when. She left no note just a scribbled paragraph of some of the beatitudes on the table next to her. The rest after that is such a blur it was like a stop motion movie that was being put in slow motion. But the funeral was horrible because I had to deal with her Church who I blamed for her death. I remember the pasters daughter going up to her mom and she asked her mom is Patsy in heaven now and her mom said the most horrible thing in front of me she said no suicides dont go to heaven they commit an unforgivable sin when they die like that I just lost it right there I couldn't believe what I just heard! It was there Church that brainwashed my mom to begin with, I just couldn't take what I just heard and things got out of hand and im going to leave it at that cause I want to say this and this may cause a stink and cause people to not think to highly of me because of the no holds barred sternness but.... I do not CARE what anyone says there is not a bible verse anyone can show me that proves my moms been burning in hell for 13 years now for taking her own life. You serve your uncaring callous unforgiving Jesus I will serve mine his grace was good enough to save my momma too. My family being the perfect little grace killers that they are still to this day try to convince me my mom did not go to heaven my aunt told me I might as well spit on the Lords face for raising my sister to believe she would see my mom again someday. My mom was sick depression is an illness maybe even a disease I dont know but she took her last breath loving her Lord she just felt she had no more options that dieing was all she had left to her. And if God is encapable of seeing that kind of pain and anguish and is encapable of forgiving a person who isnt in there right mind to begin with then tell me PLEASE tell me what buisness do we have serving him anyway!? He is a false God if his love and grace is only 1 dimentional he can forgive Samson but not my mom death is death suicide is suicide no matter the flavor or reasoning excuses behind i. I dont know I dont understand it im sorry im so sorry it still hurts so much to here such things from those who dont even have a clue with how there words can hurt worse than any knife. At least have some cooth about it if Arminianism is your thing and I dont say that with disrespect but some of you need to learn better social skills and learn the right time and wrong time to say things like that I dont care how strongly you believe about your own personal doctrin. Dont destroy a persons hope while there in mourning you want get the respect you think you need for it you will get exactly what you deserve and it want be a God bless you brother thank you. I still havent got over it the anger overtones are deep in this I am so sorry I do apologise for any toes I just stepped on I meant no wrong but I felt I needed to say what was said I just cant believe God is that evil for my moms sake and mine if it is true I want no part of him anymore I would rather go to hell and be with my mom that loved(s) me than be with a hateful thing like that that only loves you part of the time



doinkdom -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/4/2008 11:20:10 AM)

{{{{{mari}}}}}}}

{{{{{Casper22}}}}}

I'm so very sorry that you've had to endure seasons of pain and grief alone.

May you find comfort in the hope of our Lord.



jfaye -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/4/2008 12:54:56 PM)

My heart goes out to you, 'keabird', 'zagrebs', 'Mari', 'Casper' and any others who have had
to be in your places!

I would say, that the determining factor in any person's life, upon their death, whether it be
by 'accident', natural causes, murder or suicide is what they did with Jesus in their lives.
Was He trusted to forgive them of their sins, past, present and future? Did He do enough
to pay for their sins, in their hearts and minds?

Anyone can be in sin at the moment of their death. What about the guy whirling down the highway,
spinning out and maybe letting out a curse upon impact that causes His death? What about the person
who has gossiped about their neighbor and has a heart attack before acknowledging it?

It isn't a matter of a sin that cannot be forgiven, because sin is forgiven in our relationship with Jesus!

But--my fear, in this discussion is for the one who is in a time of despair searching this site for some
hope! I want there to be 'hope' for a better day for them. I don't want to give them 'permission' to
end their problems, be done with their depression because of the one who seeks to murder them by
whispering the lies into their ear.

There will always be a better day! Don't forfeit your life on a moment in time, whether it be a day, a
week or even a year--there is hope in Jesus. This life is not what it's all about! It's a time we prepare
to meet our Savior and a time to be used for His glory! Don't let the enemies of our souls deprive you
and Him of that joy and blessing to yourselves and others! You are very important in His kingdom plan
and you do not want to miss out on that realization!!!!

I believe, that the more the potential for us to be used in a significant way, or the more we are used in
such ways, the more the enemy will try and convince us to shorten our lives, and derail us by luring us
into all sorts of sin, not suicide only but if he can't get us to murder ourselves, he will throw other bait
out and hope we will be put on the shelf in some way!

Don't let it happen--be sober, be ready and be on alert for there is an enemy roaring, and prowling
looking to succeed in ending and preventing our usefulness to the kingdom plan of God!

Be aware of the schemes of the devil![sm=fireanger.gif][:@][:@][:@]



PinkCarnations -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/4/2008 4:29:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladyichigo
If you know of a family who is going through suicide,...please pray for them, comfort them, and most importantly show them Christ's compassion and love.


I don't think that could've been said loud enough!



ladyichigo -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/4/2008 4:37:55 PM)

(((Casper)))

It is truly saddening how you and your family were treated by your church and its pastor. I think most churches and their pastors really do not know how to deal with suicides. It was very wrong of that woman for her to say that your mother was condemned to hell. It’s wrong because she had no clue regarding the state of your mother’s heart. Only God truly knows.

This is the verse that was given to me by my youth pastor on the night my dad committed suicide. And I pray that you will find comfort in it as I have.

Romans 8:35-39 (NIV)
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: 
"For your sake we face death all day long; 
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Surely right now, you are enduring so much pain. I understand. There’s a mixture of guilt and anger. Guilty because you were not there…and that perhaps you would’ve been able to prevent it from happening. I’ve kicked myself time and time again, “I should have stayed home!” You often think, "If only I could see her for one last time". You’re angry at your church and your pastor because they could have done something too. And they could have been compassionate toward you and your family. And instead they showed callousness, and looked down on you like you or your family are not worth their time. You question their integrity, "How do they call themselves a Christian?" You’ve asked God “Why?” And maybe you’ve received the answer but you may be unaware of it as you are overwhelmed with grief.

I’ve asked God again and again, “Why?” He said to me each time “Trust Me, and do not lean on your own understanding”. He said to trust Him. So, I am. I trust God. He is just. He is fair. Honestly, it's been difficult to trust something you can't "see", but I feel, and I have seen the work He does and has done through it all.

I know He loves His creation.
Psalm 139:13-16 (NIV)“ For you created my inmost being; 
 you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; 
 your works are wonderful, 
I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you 
when I was made in the secret place. 
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body. 
All the days ordained for me 
 were written in your book 
 before one of them came to be.”

He loves my dad. He loves your mother. He loves you. He understands your pain, and He suffers with you. Your mother is so precious to Him. Trust Him and find comfort in Him. Your church, and your pastor are humans. They are temporary. The pain you feel now, and the suffering you are enduring are also temporary, and incomparable to the glory that awaits. God had a purpose for your mother, and I do believe her purpose here on earth was served.

Grieve and mourn as much as you need. If you don’t, the longer it will take for you to heal. If you need help with the grieving process, then seek help from a Christian Counselor who is familiar with grief associated with suicide. It's okay to be angry. It's okay to be sad....but don't forget to thank God for all the wonderful things He has in store for you.

Holy Spirit, embrace Casper with your comfort. Lord give her strength to endure. Help her to trust You.



JimboFletch -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/4/2008 5:21:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beyleigh

I thought that suicide was the only unforgivable sin.

Then you think wrong because that is not what Jesus called the unforgivable sin. Go read your Bible and come back and apologize for your statement.

It's a really good idea to check what the Bible actually says before giving advice as if it comes from the scriptures. A LOT of harm can be done if you don't and THAT is something you might be held accountable for doing.



zondie -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/4/2008 7:36:53 PM)

IS SUICIDE FORGIVEN?...I'm not exactly sure of how to word my thoughts on this question, so try to be patient with me as I try to explain how I feel about this matter...

I've always thought that for someone to be able to actually carry out the act of suicide, that they have to be really, really mentally disturbed (sick) at the time. To the point that, maybe they're not really accountable for their actions. (God knows.)

If we're a born again Christian, and something goes wrong with our way of thinking, rationally (mental break down), aren't we 'still' a child of God? In my opinion, "YES!" He's able to keep us! You've heard people say phrases like, "They'd have to be out of their mind to think about doing such and such." Well that's my point. It takes someone who (at the time) are actually out of their mind (or reasonable thinking).

God knows if we're in a stable mind or not when we make our decisions or choices in life. We're allowed to make mistakes and sometimes it's for our own spiritual growth. But to make this big of a mistake...one would truly have to be suffering from insanity! And that's an illness that's not taken as seriously as it should be, IMHO.

So in conclusion of my thoughts...Knowing that 'God knows' the condition of the persons' mind and heart; if they belonged to Him before the act of suicide...then they still belong to Him. But, if they had never accepted Jesus as their personal Savior before the suicide was carried out then..., I hope with their dying breath, they had enough time to receive salvation.

{Suicide, and suicidal thoughts and attempts, are prominent on both sides of my parents family.}



Casper22 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/5/2008 12:29:50 PM)

Mom definitely didnt believe in OSAS but something happend in her mind to make her think she would be ok if she took her own life the old healthy mom before she became this horribly depressed person would worry about her, mine and my sisters salvation if we missed church. I would have never believed suicide would be an option for her. But despair is a mighty powerful thing. I believe shes in heaven a woman so beautiful wouldn't be anywhere else. I want to say thank u to those who responded to my ramblings and to those who have suffered and survived it you ever need me let me know Casper



Cephyr13 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/6/2008 8:57:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames
(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


As a warning to people who don't have an appreciation for reading comprehension and respect for the language and EXACTLY what it says, please, please, please, especially in regard to scripture, do not apply anything to the Bible that is not explicity stated or you will scare the dickens out of people with false doctrines.

Hebrews 10:26,27 does not say you can lose your salvation. Notice it says that if you RECEIVE THE KNOWLEDGE of the truth. It doesn't say that you accepted Jesus or anything of that nature. It just says that you've seen the truth, but it never says you've acted upon it. Contrary to popular belief, a person can see the truth and decide to reject it and God. Notice that after "we have received the knowledge of the truth," there remains no more sacrifices for sins. Why? Because Jesus was the one that gave the only sacrifice for sins.

Once you learn Christ is the only sacrifice, then there is no OTHER sacrifice for sins besides Him. And at that point, if you don't accept Him, you are just fearfully waiting for judgement, because you know you're not saved from judgement. That's all this verse is saying. Remember how Paul says that where there is no law, sins are not imputed upon us? In other words, if we do not know the law, then we are not held accountable to it. Paul even says in on verse that he was alive, but when he heard the law, he died. I'm sure God has other ways to judge people we're not aware of, because He even says that every man will see creation and know that there is a God so that no man will be without excuse. All I know is that the Lord is merciful and says where there is no law, sin is not imputed upon us. So, in this Hebrews 10:26,27 verse, it's clearly speaking of a person that comes to the knowledge of the truth (that truth being that the law defines sin, and tells us that sin brings death), but disregards the law of sin and death and keeps on sinning, knowing they're going to hell, because they will not submit to Jesus and be saved and repent of their sins. Why would you continue sinning, as the scripture says, if you have repented (turned away) from sins? So, obviously, this is not talking about a saved person. No where does it define a saved person.

quote:


and

(2Co 5:10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Christians are going to stand before Christ for judgment (judgment not necessarily condemnation) I think Christ will be a fair Judge and will consider all things (was the person really saved or was he a Matthew 7 believer, etc).


Paul says we will all give an account of ourselves before Jesus. But for us, Jesus and Paul both say there's no judgement nor condemnation. In other words, for us, it's going to be the Refiner's Fire. All our bad deeds will burn up and only pure deeds will stand the test, and that will be our reward at the judgement seat.

quote:


My first inclination is that the person who commits suicide was not a Christian because they were not obedient to Scripture (casting our cares on Him comes to mind, do not worry is another). This may not be the case every time, but for sure some of the time.

But this verse carries a lot of weight in my mind;

(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?


I can vouch for that being incorrect. Satan really works on new Christians, and if after a year or two they kind of fall away back into some sins, Satan can get them so down on themselves that they try to commit suicide. I was born again at age 16. It was extremely powerful! I went from rock bottom to cloud nine in a split second. It was amazing. That freedom and joy and happiness lasted for a couple of years. Sin choked it after two years, though. My sins. I got back into some of them and they dragged me down. Then, by 5 years later, I was beating myself up so badly because of my sins that I tried to kill myself. Yet God had already told me a long time ago that He would not let me die. I told Him, "I'm coming home to You. I don't want to be here anymore." I drove off a bridge at 70mph without a seatbelt and got flung all over that little truck, but only got one bruise and some scratches. That's it. I vowed never to do that again and learned a great lesson about trusting God and never going against His wishes. That was one of the best experiences I ever had. Taught me so much. So much good came out of it.

I'm not saying to try to commit suicide. LOL I'm just saying that God always has a plan for His children, even when they go astray. It's nearly 8 years later now and I'm married with a wonderful wife and an awesome business and life and understanding of the Lord and His unfailing love for me. And He uses me to help others all the time. Now I can releate to those that want to commit suicide and that really helps them, knowing that you've been where they are. It is safe to assume that many people who say they are Christian really aren't. And it's safe to say many really are Christians even if they don't act like it. But we cannot know for sure, and so it really does no good to try to figure it out, but rather to just share truth with everyone.



Cephyr13 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/6/2008 8:59:51 AM)

And still, no one wants to touch my challenge where Jesus says, "If you believe in Me, even if you die, you will never die." If we can die spiritually after we accept Jesus, then Jesus is a liar, as well as Paul and David too, because their statements are made invalid. David & Paul both said no sins are counted against us. So how can sin that's not counted against us condemn us if it's not counted against us?? Makes no sense. That's the biggest issue here and no one wants to touch it with a 10 foot pole.



bob97 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (4/9/2008 5:43:05 PM)

God is beyond time and of course knows full well what will happen in our future…so if we are destined to commit suicide God is aware of that fact. Now if God calls you to be his child and if the Holy Spirit has written God’s law upon your heart and you belong to Christ, why would God reject you because you have committed an act that He knew from the start you would commit?

Does this sound like a persuasive argument? I think so but I don’t plan to shoot myself to find out.

Bob



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