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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 4/27/2008 9:43:13 PM
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drmark
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quote:
there is a phrase: "process of sanctification", it comes after justification, and it is not instantaneous. There is another phrase: "entire sanctification", which is a second work of grace wrought instantaneously which leads to the process of living the holy life in Christ-like obedience. Both concepts are Biblical and experiential, doer.
quote:
You wouldn't suggest the Holy Spirit is asleep in you...eh? You wouldn't suggest the Holy Spirit finds us totally alert and responsive in all situations...eh?
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RE: C.S.Lewis to the Rescue! - 4/28/2008 4:13:32 AM
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VCO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Thank you, VCO, for your Scripturally sound reply. I'm sorry, but I still see no answer in your response to the fact that the Bible refers to ""unforgivable sin," "greater sin," "more tolerable in the day of judgement," clearly showing that all sins are not equal, except that all sins condemn the unforgiven to Hell. Do you have an explanation or are these terms unimportant in Scripture because the only important point is to stay out of Hell?
U&U
I do not know why we are not connecting on this, other than it appears that you are focused on man's perspective of sin, and I am focused on God's perspective. Yes there are different kinds of sin, but from God's perspective one is EQUAL to breaking them all. God's purpose for pointing out individual sins, is NOT TO give us reason to think "at least we are better than someone else". It is to PROVE to us that NONE of us can keep His Laws perfectly, because to stumble at one point, makes us GUILTY of breaking ALL of God's LAWS. HE is trying to drive us to the point of realizing that NONE can measure up to HIS STANDARDS, and that we ALL desperately need a Savior. The only reason Blaspheming the Holy Spirit was NOT a sin Nailed to the Cross, is that it is literally rejecting what the Holy Spirit is trying to convince the Unsaved hearts of mankind, the fact that Christ the Lord did to pay for everyone's sins. A gift is free, that is true; BUT equally true is you have to receive the gift, OR you do not have it. If one refuses to receive Christ as Lord, which automatically places that free gift of "PAID IN FULL" in our sin debt account; THAT person does not then have that gift. It is NOT Unforgivable, because it is a greater sin than others, it is Unforgiveable because it is rejecting the ONLY way to Salvation. God loved us enough to give us our choice. Do we want Jesus to be LORD of our lives, or do we want to be lord of our own lives? We get our choice for Eternity, and if we choose to reject Jesus as Lord, are we NOT standing with the crowd in Jerusalem that day, CRYING OUT: "We will not have this man to rule over us, CRUCIFY Him!" ?
So looking from our side toward God, yes some sins appear greater than others. But HE clearly said to stumble at one point, makes us Guilty of them all. So the one who commits the "greater sin" you asked about, is is EQUALLY guilty of all the little ones, and the one who commits a bad thought is EQUALLY guilty of all other sins, including the "greater sin". So at NO POINT can we be guilty of breaking only ONE of God's Laws. Yes I believe we are born in sin, and YES I believe that before knowledge of right from wrong, sin is "NOT IMPUTED". However, that very portion of Scripture clearly implies that sin is there from birth, it is just not counted against us until we know right from wrong, then we are accountable for it.
Romans 5:12-21 (NASB)
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
As for your question about God's usage of the expression "more tolerable" in relation to the judgement in verses such as: Mark 6:11 and Luke 10:14; does that mean that there are places in Hell that are more tormenting than others, thus indicating unequal punishment? I am not sure, but for sure, I am not going there to find out. However, I think it is more likely that it will depend upon the Unsaved's perception and attitude. I think it is HIGHLY likely that the Self-righteous will be much more bitter and perceive that their torment in Hell is far worse, because they do not think they deserve their fate; than the ones who are standing right beside the Self-righteous that realize that they are getting they deserve. For example, on more than one occasion I have talked to inmates with identical Life Sentences, for committing the same type of crimes. Because of a difference in their attitudes and perception, one will say, "I don't deserve this, I should have received a lighter sentence!", AND the other will say, "I am getting what I deserve, in fact I should have been executed."
Matt 13:49-50 (NKJV)
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Luke 16:22-24 (NASB)
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw* Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
See the difference in attitude and perception? The Self-righteous who have no "heart-knowledge" of Jesus as Lord, such as those who will be crying out "Lord, lord we have done many great things in your name," will be wailing and bitterly GNASHING their teeth in Hell, while the rich man seems to realize that he deserves his fate. So even if the punishment is EQUAL, there can be a totally different perception of it between individuals.
< Message edited by VCO -- 4/28/2008 5:44:18 AM >
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VCO
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 4/28/2008 9:33:51 AM
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DaveW
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VCO, you have again glossed over the question with your party line.
What exactly do you think "greater sin" means?
I do not know how to word this so you will comment on these scriptural phrases instead of batting them away in favor of the verses you keep quoting over and over. The one I list here is a quote from Jesus Himself. I would call that "God's perspective." He was also the one who uttered the phrase "unforgivable sin" and differentiated it from other sins.
< Message edited by DaveW -- 4/28/2008 9:41:23 AM >
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 4/28/2008 3:29:14 PM
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Little_1
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Sin is anything which separates us from God.
The Word of God teaches that there is only one sin which God will not forgive and that is the sin of blastphemy against the Holy Spirit which means to continually deny the Holy Spirit's prompting to accept the Lord Jesus' sacrificial bloodshed on our behalf as our only means of salvation from sin. The Holy Spirit will not always strive with man and there comes a point when He withdraws - that point in a person's life is when continual rejection has reached the point of blastphemy. Nobody can know when this will happen - it just can and it is when God deems enough is enough.
< Message edited by Little_1 -- 4/28/2008 3:45:43 PM >
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 4/28/2008 3:39:59 PM
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VCO
Posts: 85
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
VCO, you have again glossed over the question with your party line.
What exactly do you think "greater sin" means?
I do not know how to word this so you will comment on these scriptural phrases instead of batting them away in favor of the verses you keep quoting over and over. The one I list here is a quote from Jesus Himself. I would call that "God's perspective." He was also the one who uttered the phrase "unforgivable sin" and differentiated it from other sins.
U&U
NOW, read it in context:
John 19:5-15 (NKJV)
5 Then Jesus came out, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. And Pilate said to them, "Behold the Man!"
6 Therefore, when the chief priests and officers saw Him, they cried out, saying, "Crucify Him, crucify Him!" Pilate said to them, "You take Him and crucify Him, for I find no fault in Him."
7 The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and according to our law He ought to die, because He made Himself the Son of God."
8 Therefore, when Pilate heard that saying, he was the more afraid,
9 and went again into the Praetorium, and said to Jesus, "Where are You from?" But Jesus gave him no answer.
10 Then Pilate said to Him, "Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?"
11 Jesus answered, "You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."
12 From then on Pilate sought to release Him, but the Jews cried out, saying, "If you let this Man go, you are not Caesar's friend. Whoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar."
13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus out and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called The Pavement, but in Hebrew, Gabbatha.
14 Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, "Behold your King!"
15 But they cried out, "Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!" Pilate said to them, "Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but Caesar!"
Okay, I assume you are talking about verse 11 above. WHAT IS "THE GREATER SIN" being compared to? It is NOT being compared to other sins! It is being compared to "THE TRUTH" that Jesus is the Son of God! If Jesus was not the Son of God, then those that had delivered Jesus to Pilate would have been correct in saying that they had caught him in a sin that required the death penalty. BUT SINCE JESUS TRULY IS THE SON OF GOD, and therefore committed NO SIN; it is plain to see that delievering Jesus to Pilate to be executed for a false charge is OBVIOUSLY "the greater sin", than the Truth which was ONLY erroneously perceived to be a lie or sin. So once again, even in this portion of Scripture we see the difference between man's false perception of sin, and GOD's true perception.
Let me give you an Example that might help clarify the use of "the greater sin" here:
If you locked yourself out your car, and someone saw you using a coat hanger to open that car; that witness would probably then use his cell phone to report a car theft in progress. The witness in his mind would be reporting a violation of the Law or sin. When the police arrive, they find you in the car with the coat hanger still in your hand, and you claiming it is my car but I forgot my wallet at home. And try as you might, you cannot find the registration in the glove box; you therefore would in all probabily be arrested and taken before a Judge, where you would have to prove ownership of the car. ALL THE TIME THE WITNESS would be insisting, "I saw him stealing the car!" Now who committed "the greater sin"? You for using a coat hanger to get into your locked car, OR the one who falsely accused you of trying to steal it?
< Message edited by VCO -- 4/29/2008 2:18:22 AM >
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/1/2008 7:04:51 AM
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DaveW
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Wow.
I have no clue how to get you to look at what I am saying. Your bias is so strong it totally blinds you to the obvious plain text of scripture. He was saying that Judas' and the High Priest's sins of betraying and arresting Jesus were greater than Pilate's sin of condemning an innocent man to death.
In the OT, there were sins (inadvertant, unknowing, falling short), transgressions (willfully disobeying) and iniquities (transgenerational effects and predispositions of sins and transgressions). Some activities God described as abominations (very detestable), others he does not.
It is clear thruougt scripture that God lists differing values of "badness" to different sins. I did not make that up. I wish I could make you see that.
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/4/2008 8:56:32 PM
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VCO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
. . .
It is clear thruougt scripture that God lists differing values of "badness" to different sins. I did not make that up. I wish I could make you see that.
quote:
"Dr. John MacArthur, Jr."
[Commenting on Rom. 1:18]
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/45-9.htm
. . .
To help the Christian reader to understand the significance and the meaning of the fullness of the gospel of Christ. And it all begins in verse 18 with this statement: “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness.” The gospel message begins with a statement about the wrath of God. Frankly that’s diametrically opposed to most of our evangelistic technique. Most of our contemporary evangelism purposely avoids that theme. We talk about love and we talk about happiness and we talk about abundant living and we talk about forgiveness and we talk about joy, we talk about peace. And we offer people all of those things and ask them if they wouldn’t like to have all of those things. But we really very rarely talk about judgment. And I wonder in all of the times that you have presented the gospel to somebody, how many times did you introduce it by saying ‑ By the way, did you know that the wrath of God is revealed against your ungodliness? I suppose Dale Carnegie; he has even affected our gospel presentation. We are in such a hurry to win friends and influence people that sometimes we bypass the starting point.
From Paul’s perspective, fear becomes the first pressure applied to evil men. Let them know about the wrath of God. In fact, the word love, you might want to know, doesn’t appear in the Roman epistle until the fifth chapter.
Now admittedly the wrath of God is a hard subject and I am not here to tell you that it’s an easy one. I find it myself very difficult to begin in speaking to people about Christ at this point. And yet it is the beginning of the gospel and the proper preparation for the announcement of grace. How can people understand anything about love if they don’t understand God’s hate? How can they understand anything about His grace if they don’t know about His law? How can they understand forgiveness if they don’t understand the penalty of sin. Men cannot understand. They cannot seek grace and salvation unless they are affected with the dread of the wrath of God that is upon them. Unless men sense they are in grave danger there’s no pressure applied to them to change.
Now, sometimes when you talk about God being a God of wrath, certain people get disturbed. And they don’t understand how God can be a God of anger and God can be a God of wrath and God can be a God of fury, a God of terror. But that’s because they don’t understand God. Let’s see if we can’t help ourselves to a deeper understanding of His wrath in perspective with all of His other attributes.
God’s attributes are balanced in His divine perfection. And they are perfectly balanced. If God did not have wrath and God did not have anger then He would not be God. God is perfect in love, on the one hand, and He is equally perfect in hate, on the other hand. Just as totally as He loves, so totally does He hate. As His love is unmixed, so is His hate unmixed. Of Christ, it says in Hebrews 1:9, “Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity.” And there is that perfect balance in the nature of God. As I mentioned, one of the tragedies of Christianity in our time is a failure to preach the hatred of God, the judgment of God. We’re so saccharine. We’re so sentimental. We’re so kind of mushy in our Christianity. When is the last time you heard a new song on the wrath of God? Heard one lately? I haven’t.
Just to prove a point in my own mind I have an old Psalter, an old hymnal from the end of the nineteenth century and I pulled it off the shelf and started to go through the hymnal and I found hymn after hymn after hymn on the wrath of God, on the anger of God, on the vengeance of God, on the judgment of God. Hymns that sounded very much like the imprecatory Psalms, where the psalmist is asking God to come down and condemn His enemies. People don’t write hymns like that anymore. People don’t extol the wrath of God. We don’t want to talk about that in our Madison Avenue approach to presenting the message. But we will never understand at all the profound reality of God’s love until we comprehend His hate. That’s why you never even hear the word love until, the fifth chapter. There has to be a‑very clear delineation of what it is that God hates.
And may I add that it is not to say that God doesn’t love, but it is to say that you’ll never understand how great His love is unless you know how great His hate is. I mean, if you understand that God hates sin so profoundly then you will find it all the more amazing that He can love sinners. So that without an understanding of His hate, His love is crippled too in our thinking. Love and grace are favorite terms, are void of meaning if God does not hate.
. . .
Nor have I made up the fact that "sin is sin", PERIOD, and the fact that God hates ALL INIQUITY. Each individual sin PUT CHRIST ON THE CROSS. Jesus Himself even, taught that the thought was the same as the deed. Numerous mainline Churches taught it that way for Centuries, and some still do. Only since the latter half of the 1900's has the Gospel been watered down, into an "easy-believism, God is ONLY Love, and how dare you remind me that God hates my sin", Laodicean dominated Church Age.
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/i/t/itwrahod.htm
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/l/i/d/lidtdwra.htm
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/5/2008 6:56:51 AM
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DaveW
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"Numerous mainline churches" have taught replacement theology,racisim, and other errors for centuries. However I seriously question this was one of them. The RCC has recognized the difference between venial and mortal sin for over a millenium. The original mainline protestant churches also recongnized this.
Are you saying that I do not believe that God hates sin? OR that I am watering down the gospel? Neither could be further from the truth. I understand how much God hates sin. I also understand that He hates people doing damage to the text of scripture. By ignoring or explaining away the passages I have brought up you are doing just that.
Let me make this simple:
There is sin - the base Hebrew and Greek words were archery terms that meant to miss the target. We sin everytime we strive to do right but miss it in any way shape or form. Paul tells us all have sinned and fall short of HIS glory.
There is transgression - this is willful disobedience. It is more than trying to do right and failing; it is knowing what God wants and doing something else instead. Everywhere in scripture this is considered more serious than just sin. Some are called "abominations" which are considered even more detestable than regular transgressions.
Then there is iniquity - this is transgenerational effects of our parents' and grandparents' sins and transgressions.
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We are now grandparents TWICE!!
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/5/2008 11:57:51 PM
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VCO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
The RCC has recognized the difference between venial and mortal sin for over a millenium. The original mainline protestant churches also recongnized this.
U&U
quote:
"The Gospel in Leviticus" A Series of Lectures on the Hebrew Ritual by Joseph A. Seiss, D.D, LL.D., Philadelphia Lutheran Seminary (approx. 1892)
Fifth Lecture.
The Sin and Trespass-Offerings—Gospel in Leviticus, The
. . .
There is a school of moralists, who make a difference between sins. They tell us that while some are mortal, and carry after them the certain judgment of God, others are only venial—mere imperfections, to which no serious guilt attaches. But, I find no such distinctions in the word of God. Sin is sin; and guilt is a part of its essential nature wherever found. True, in their effects upon the perpetrator, or in their influences upon society, some are worse than others; but in their relations to God and his holy law, they are always the same, always evil, abhorrent, and damning. Men may talk of "little sins;" but God never does.
. . .
—Gospel in Leviticus, The
quote:
. . . If you want to get along with God, you will have to agree with Him about sin. Sin is sin and it must be confessed. It does not matter who you are, either. . .
. . .
God doesn't watch the actions of some people and disregard others. I have never understood why some Christians think they can get by with certain things that other people do not get by with. Sin is sin. . .—J. Vernon McGee's Thru The Bible
quote:
. . .
It means that to disobey God is like breaking the marriage vow. It means that all sin is sin against love. It means that our relationship to God is not like the distant relationship of king and subject or master and slave, but like the intimate relationship of husband and wife. It means that when we sin we break God's heart, as the heart of one partner in a marriage may be broken by the desertion of the other. . . —Barclay's Daily Study Bible (NT)
quote:
Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.
1 Cor. 3:1-9
. . .
So a Christian is not characterized by sin; it no longer represents his basic nature. But he is still able to sin, and his sin is just as sinful as the sin of an unbeliever. Sin is sin. . . —MacArthur New Testament Commentary, The
quote:
. . .
But to God, sin is sin, whether you do it to be mean or to have fun. . . —Thompson Kids Treasure Chest
quote:
Iniquity
Usage Number: 1
Strong's Number: <G458>
Original Word: ἀíïìίá, anomia
Usage Notes: lit., "lawlessness" (a, negative, nomos, "law"), is used in a way which indicates the meaning as being lawlessness or wickedness. Its usual rendering in the NT is "iniquity," which lit. means unrighteousness.—Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words
quote:
INIQUITY
See Sin.
—Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary
quote:
INIQUITY
» See: SIN
—New Century Version Dictionary
Hebrews 1:8-9 (KJV)
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
< Message edited by VCO -- 5/6/2008 12:11:38 AM >
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/6/2008 6:59:09 AM
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doer
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Luk 20:47 ".......These will receive greater condemnation."
Luk 12:47 "And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes,
Luk 12:48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.
willful sinning is "greater" that sinning in ignorance
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/6/2008 7:16:23 AM
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deliveredarling
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I do not know if this has been said. I was just reading in Hebrews and it appears that the "sin leading to death" is apostasy. Would this then not indicated a difference in the penalties for sin?
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Luke 8:16
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/6/2008 7:44:03 AM
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Focusing
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quote:
"easy-believism, God is ONLY Love, and how dare you remind me that God hates my sin"
just a quick note ... I haven't been to a church like this
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Though the sound overpowers, sing again, with your dear voice revealing a tone
Of some world far from ours, where music and moonlight and feeling are oneIJ
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/6/2008 8:04:35 AM
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DaveW
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VCO - let me ask you this question another way.
God tells you to do X in a certain way. It is a difficult thing and you try really hard and get 95% of it done.
The fact that you did not get 100% means you fell short, which is the biblical definition of sin.
You are saying from God's perspective that is exactly the same thing as cursing God and saying you won't do X at all?
If that is so, what is the incentive to even try to walk in obedience?
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Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/7/2008 12:25:35 AM
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VCO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
You are saying from God's perspective that is exactly the same thing as cursing God and saying you won't do X at all?
If that is so, what is the incentive to even try to walk in obedience?
U&U
I did not say it, GOD did!
James 2:10 (NIV)
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
Now the way you worded that makes it sound like you think that keeping most of God's commands, earns your Salvation. NO WAY! None of us get to heaven because of what we have done, or did not do. We all deserve eternity in Hell. We serve Him because we LOVE Him, because HE LOVED us enough to pay for all of our sins on the cross, AND we are ALL guilty of breaking all of HIS commands. It truly is an inner personal LOVE RELATIONSHIP, between me and my LORD. That is why I strive to obey HIM.
< Message edited by VCO -- 5/7/2008 2:09:37 AM >
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/7/2008 3:06:35 AM
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VCO
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U&U
Okay DaveW, what do you do with this verse:
Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
Now I will be the first to say, "THANK GOD WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW, BUT RATHER WE ARE UNDER GRACE!" Because the above verse makes it clear that every infraction of the Law makes us Cursed in God's sight. Now that accurately describes the equality of SIN in God's sight. That is WHY we NEED a Savior! That is WHY we NEED His Grace! That is WHY we NEED His Mercy!
I think you will find more Churches still teaching "Sin is equally bad in God's Sight", than you think. Granted in this Laodicean Age, fewer and fewer cling to Sound Doctrine, but we are still here. But maybe not for long. "Soon And Very Soon!"
SOON AND VERY SOON! - link
Romans 6:15 (ISV)
15 What, then, does this mean? Should we go on sinning because we are not under Law but under grace? Of course not!
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2977
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Titus 2:13
VCO
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/7/2008 5:49:34 AM
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McFatty
Posts: 725
Joined: 12/8/2007
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The wages of sin is death, regardless of which sin or how you name it. You don't get ten years for one sin and the electric chair for another.
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“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/7/2008 9:14:13 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3587
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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So VCO you are saying that since it is impossible for anyone to ever be free from sin, that means God looks at the person who tries really hard to please HIM but misses by just the slightest flaw the same as unrepentant serial axe murderers?
Yes or no?
< Message edited by DaveW -- 5/7/2008 2:02:52 PM >
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Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/7/2008 3:33:07 PM
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VCO
Posts: 85
Joined: 1/13/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
So VCO you are saying that since it is impossible for anyone to ever be free from sin, that means God looks at the person who tries really hard to please HIM but misses by just the slightest flaw the same as unrepentant serial axe murderers?
Yes or no?
U&U
ABSOLUTELY, YES! Both are guilty of breaking ALL OF GOD's LAWS.
Keeping His Commandments does NOT earn one ounce of forgiveness, PERIOD. All the good works you can do in a LIFETIME will NOT pay the price for a single sin. AND if you think they do, God says that pile you call good works looks and smells like a pile of FILTHY rags to Him.
Isaiah 64:6 (NIV)
6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
HOW MANY OF US? NONE of us are less sinful than another, because one sin makes us equally guilty of "breaking ALL of God's Laws", just like those we consider the WORST of sinners. That fact should drive us to our knees crying out:
Romans 7:24 (KJV)
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
AMAZING GRACE - link
Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found;
Was blind, but now I see.
When you understand just how sinful we REALLY are, that song will bring tears flowing down your cheeks every time you sing it. For God's Wrath towards our sin is the same as His Wrath towards the unbeliever's sin; EXCEPT Christ is there saying, "Father, I paid the penaltly for that sin on the Cross."
What MOTIVATES us to serve HIM then? Understanding HOW GREAT HIS LOVE IS, and HOW MUCH HE SAVED ME FROM, and HOW HE TOOK MY PLACE ON THE CROSS! Therefore we want to LOVE Him back!
John 14:15 (NASB)
15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
ANY OBEDIANCE NOT MOTIVATED BY LOVE FOR OUR PERSONAL LORD, JESUS CHRIST; is part of that pile of FILTHY RAGS.
Are there different consequences for sin in this life, ABSOLUTELY!
Galatians 6:7 (NASB)
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
And government is responsible to set up a fair justice system that makes the punishment fit the crime, here on Earth.
Romans 13:1-5 (NKJV)
1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake.
< Message edited by VCO -- 5/7/2008 3:54:03 PM >
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Titus 2:13
VCO
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/8/2008 7:01:39 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3587
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VCOquote:
So VCO you are saying that since it is impossible for anyone to ever be free from sin, that means God looks at the person who tries really hard to please HIM but misses by just the slightest flaw the same as unrepentant serial axe murderers? ABSOLUTELY, YES! Both are guilty of breaking ALL OF GOD's LAWS. So you are saying heart intent counts for nothing. It does not matter that the one person hates the very concept of a god while the other wants to submit to God in every way?
< Message edited by DaveW -- 5/8/2008 7:07:42 AM >
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? - 5/8/2008 3:41:09 PM
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VCO
Posts: 85
Joined: 1/13/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
. . .
So you are saying heart intent counts for nothing. It does not matter that the one person hates the very concept of a god while the other wants to submit to God in every way?
U&U
Now I did not say that, DID I ? You may wish that is what I said, but you are sadly mistaken.
quote:
VCO
What MOTIVATES us to serve HIM then? Understanding HOW GREAT HIS LOVE IS, and HOW MUCH HE SAVED ME FROM, and HOW HE TOOK MY PLACE ON THE CROSS! Therefore we want to LOVE Him back!
John 14:15 (NASB)
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