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RE: Container Gardening Help - 3/16/2008 3:21:44 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4650
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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Now I want to plant some things  My problem is getting used to the dryness of Colorado VS the humidity of Maryland. I gardened alot in MD, we had raised beds all growing up but out here everything dies because I forget to water  We have a good amount of sun so maybe I'll order some of Jen's Terra Cotta worms.
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Ryanne Gabriella Alexis born 8-22-07!
The opinions stated in the above post are solely mine and in no way should they be
construed as offensive due to your own insecurity.
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RE: Container Gardening Help - 3/17/2008 11:29:15 AM
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Auben
Posts: 1607
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From: Where pines tower and cranberries float
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I've got sprouts downstairs too. Mostly broccoli with some spinach thrown in.
It is a very exciting feeling!
Have you tried a really thick mulch, Ryanne? I'm terrible too but where I live it doesn't matter too much until later July. If I can remember to water every week or two and I mulch then they're usually ok, even in a raised bed.
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Tamara
~Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time~
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RE: Container Gardening Help - 3/17/2008 11:35:11 AM
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deermousie
Posts: 1399
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisCovenant
How do you get lettuce seeds? Can you explain about harvesting seeds in more detail? And do I dry them? Can I use them in the fall?
I've never gardened before, so what seems obvious to you all will be something for me to ask about! 
Hey, all of us had to have someone tell us about this, so I am happy to pass this on to you.  Seed saving is great.
If you leave the lettuce alone, it *will* bolt and go to seed after so many weeks (like 9; maybe sooner, maybe a few weeks after that. You can't make it stop  ). All you have to do is water if it gets too dry. You'll see the spike come up with little (yellow, usually) flowers, and then the plant will start dying and you'll see the white tufts of the seed heads. Cut the tops of the lettuce off and stick them into a loosely closed paper bag to finish drying in a cool, dry, dark place. For me, that's my bedroom closet.
Aside: My poor husband - the closet gets winter squashes and pumpkins all winter long. He has to fit his clothes around the produce, but he eats well, too!
When you are ready to plant again, open the bag and take out a stem. Pick the white-tuffed seed heads off and roll/crush them between thumb and forefinger - it should give you about 15 seeds. Sprinkle those seeds on top (not in) of damp, loose soil because they need light to germinate.
Throw some bird netting on top so the sparrows don't have a nice meal of seeds, and lightly water. Three days later or so, expect to see little green dots. That's your lettuce! Yay! You can remove the bird netting, and just water gently so the tiny plants get moisture but aren't buried in soil wash.
Write on the calendar when six-seven weeks is up because the lettuce will get bitter. Either pull it up, dig it in as compost, or let go to seed. Each plant should give you several hundred seeds. Ha! No bank in the world gives interest like God's world does!
Happy lettuce growing, HisCovenant!
P.S. You can take seeds from lots of things, even in the grocery store. Blueberries, raspberries, tomatoes, peppers, melons (granted, probably hybrids, and maybe not the best for growing, but they'll still be melons of some sort if you were desperate), really anything with a seed in it that's an annual. If you grow heirloom veggies (you can find out which ones are by the internet) you can keep seeds each year and they will breed true every year after. They generally don't have as much of a harvest, but you're through buying seeds forever. I wouldn't use seeds from tree things (like apples) because they don't breed true and most apples are small and basically inedible. You probably won't get seeds from root crops because it takes many of them two years to go to seed. Radishes are fast growing but take a long time to develop seeds, so you probably aren't going to get a radish reestablished long enough to do this.
I grow heirloom pumpkins and keep a few seeds for next year's crop. But most of the seeds get roasted and the family devours them. Anyone can do this. A great book to read is "Seed To Seed."
God bless your garden, dear one! It's one of the ways God blesses us. And it's better to pay $1.29 for a seed packet and then grow your own butternut squash every year for free than it is to pay $1.50 a pound in the store.
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RE: Container Gardening Help - 3/17/2008 11:44:24 AM
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HisCovenant
Posts: 4689
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Thanks for explaining it to me! I'll see if I can find that book.
My grandfather grew a few things when I was little, but we lived out of state, so he never taught me. He was the only gardener in the family, although my mother has luck with container plants on her porch. She really didn't teach me much about it, though, and when I was younger, I really don't even remember her having flowers on our porch. She may have, but I was too busy playing to pay any mind or maybe folwers were too much of a luxury to spend time and money on. Anyhow, I never learned, so I appreciate you all explaining all this stuff to me.
My tomatoes are sprouting, and the zuc and yel squash are starting to break the surface of the dirt. It's all just so beautiful. I can't believe the seeds are actually sprouting. It's a miracle to me.
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-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: Container Gardening Help - 3/17/2008 11:51:18 AM
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agapetos
Posts: 5536
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From: This side of the lil duck pond!
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Deermousie ~ thanks for that information. I've got some tomato plants growing that I'll probably try and keep the seed from. I received the seeds as part of an experiment (comparing old and new varieties) and so they didn't cost me anything ~ but I've only seen one of the varieties in catalogues.
Thinking about it, I have some lettuce seed for the same experiment. I may try getting seeds from one of those this year.
I've just sown some salad seeds ~ corn salad and some salad bowl. The salad bowl seeds I was given last year and never used. I had to laugh when I opened the packet. Inside were 2 smaller packets ~ unmarked ~ the seeds are for red and green varieties though! I haven't a clue which is which, but I've labelled both packets and marked the seeds in the same way (I hope!). I like red and green lettuce though, so even if I've got it wrong, I'll eat them (unless the slugs get to them first!
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Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
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RE: Container Gardening Help - 3/17/2008 11:57:40 AM
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deermousie
Posts: 1399
Joined: 9/26/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
Now I want to plant some things My problem is getting used to the dryness of Colorado VS the humidity of Maryland. I gardened alot in MD, we had raised beds all growing up but out here everything dies because I forget to water We have a good amount of sun so maybe I'll order some of Jen's Terra Cotta worms.
95% of gardens that die die from lack of water. Think of your plants as pets, and check them every day. Stick your finger in the top of the soil - if it's dry 1/4" of an inch down, water. A soaker hose can cut down on your labor; put it in just before or just after planting.
Mulch on top of your soil will slow down evaporation. Straw is good, hay will work well but needs to be at least 10" deep so the hay seeds can't sprout and take over the beds. I wouldn't use wood chips, as they are slow to breakdown and they will use up the garden's nitrogen that should be going to the veggies. Saving bags of leaves in the fall and throwing them on your garden beds makes great mulch and enriches the soil year after year. Don't use oak leaves as the tannin will kill the wee beasties that make healthy top soil. Pine needles will increase your acidity.
When you have a compost pile producing all that good organic stuff for your soil (humus), you'll find your soil doesn't dry out so fast and you'll have to water less often. It also loosens the soil for roots to go through it, and keeps air pockets that roots need, too. The pH will correct itself, no matter if your soil is too acid or too alkaline.
I have seven 4'x25' beds, and rotate one off every year to go fallow. I put the compost bed directly on it, and the next year that soil is really rich.
If you mulch with 4-10" of straw, deweed the bed in spring and spread the straw. With your hand make holes in the straw to put your plants in. As the plant gets taller, close the straw around the stem. This will keep the roots cool and damp underneath and prevent weeds from coming up. The plant will grow above the straw and get the sun it needs, and should be very happy and healthy. Water and rain will go right through the straw and not hinder watering.
Replenish the straw as it matts down/breaks down to keep veggie roots shaded and weeds shaded out. Dig it into the soil at the end of the gardening year with some manure, or leave it all winter and dig it in two weeks before planting next spring, and watch your soil improve every year! The manure will provide nitrogen, the straw carbon. You'll want to see a 1:15 to 1:30 nitrogen:carbon ratio to keep the soil really rich. Honestly, I guess how much manure and straw that is , but it seems to be working fine.
God's ways give hundreds of times in profit back - in seeds, in soil productivity. Thank Him for wonderful gardening!
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RE: Container Gardening Help - 3/17/2008 4:21:00 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 1399
Joined: 9/26/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisCovenant
Thanks for explaining it to me! I'll see if I can find that book.
My grandfather grew a few things when I was little, but we lived out of state, so he never taught me. He was the only gardener in the family, although my mother has luck with container plants on her porch. She really didn't teach me much about it, though, and when I was younger, I really don't even remember her having flowers on our porch. She may have, but I was too busy playing to pay any mind or maybe folwers were too much of a luxury to spend time and money on. Anyhow, I never learned, so I appreciate you all explaining all this stuff to me.
My tomatoes are sprouting, and the zuc and yel squash are starting to break the surface of the dirt. It's all just so beautiful. I can't believe the seeds are actually sprouting. It's a miracle to me.
It's a miracle to me, too. God does great work!
Gardening is easy with a few basics: most plants need at least 6 hours of sun a day. They need water, and they'll grow even better with fertilizer once they're established. Read the following with a grain of salt, as it's more than you want to do at first. Don't get overwhelmed; some stuff can wait another year or five.
The first job for any gardener is to grow soil. Good soil is made, and unless you're in a natually fertile area (like silt from ancient rivers or such) your soil needs help. Plant legumes (peas, beans, vetch, etc.) and when they blossom, plow them under. Collect leaves (except oak and pine) in fall and throw them on your beds and plow them under. Put in manure and compost it (because most manure has so much nitrogen it will burn your plants, so it needs time to calm down, like 6-12 months). Add anything that was alive (grass clippings, kitchen peelings, chicken carcasses, but bury them so predators don't hang around, etc. I composted half a cow carcass, and two years later it was black, crumbly soil. The very best kind. Every year if you aren't growing something to eat in the growing season, get some legumes in and improve your soil. Weeds are good for this, too, as long as they aren't in seed. Buckwheat is good, too.
The humus you grow with all this plant and animal material will improve your soil incredibly: it will hold water, it will hold air (both are needed by roots), it makes the soil easy for roots to penetrate, it is fertilizer, and it balances the pH.
In the meanwhile, plant tomatoes and zucs and cucs and whatever you want. The timing is important - tomatoes and beans need warm soil, and peas and spinach want cool soil (so plant them now unless you still have snow). Learn what they like. I'd keep your tomatoes indoor/outdoor and transplant them into bigger pots so as to delay putting them in the ground. They like 8 weeks before going out anyway. I move plants in at night and out in the morning in spring and drive my family crazy with all the mobile pots, but they don't complain in July when the harvest starts the avalanche (we have a dwarf lemon tree in a pot with wheels - the Lemonmobile - and we have the only fresh lemons within a couple hundred miles. It's worth the bother of keeping it indoors by a window all winter. It's a pet).
Keep a journal; what you planted when and where. Next winter look it over and see what worked and what didn't. Something is always going to flop, so don't sweat it. Learn from mistakes and know the weather doesn't help all plants. Make plans for the next spring's garden while the snow is flying outside. Don't forget the seed catalog, the marker, and mug of hot cocoa. Gardeners have it *so* rough!
Every year something isn't going to work, so plant a variety. Last year, no one in my county got decent tomatoes. The year before that, the corn suffered. That's just life, and God allows it. Punt.
I check my plants at least once a day - they're pets. I stick my finger in the soil and water if the top 1/4" is dry. I look for wilting, light green color (needs water), bug damage, and fruit ripeness. As soon as something quits fruiting, I pull it out and put something else there (culled plant goes into compost pile). The dog spends summer nights in the garden to keep crows and deer out. He likes to lie on the lettuce. Sigh. I plant lots of lettuce.
I hope this didn't overwhelm you, HisCovenant. Start out with a really small area (my first garden was 4'x4') and enlarge as your confidence grows. Don't take on so much that you get discouraged. God bless, and don't forget to have fun doing this.
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RE: Container Gardening Help - 3/17/2008 4:26:30 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 1399
Joined: 9/26/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapetos
Deermousie ~ thanks for that information. I've got some tomato plants growing that I'll probably try and keep the seed from. I received the seeds as part of an experiment (comparing old and new varieties) and so they didn't cost me anything ~ but I've only seen one of the varieties in catalogues.
Awesome! What kind are they? There's all kinds of tomatoes circulating that never make the seed rack in the store. You might have some that are perfect for your area. The German Queen does great where I live.
quote:
Thinking about it, I have some lettuce seed for the same experiment. I may try getting seeds from one of those this year.
I've just sown some salad seeds ~ corn salad and some salad bowl. The salad bowl seeds I was given last year and never used. I had to laugh when I opened the packet. Inside were 2 smaller packets ~ unmarked ~ the seeds are for red and green varieties though! I haven't a clue which is which, but I've labelled both packets and marked the seeds in the same way (I hope!). I like red and green lettuce though, so even if I've got it wrong, I'll eat them (unless the slugs get to them first!
Hey, have fun growing lettuce. It's easy, and the different kinds look lovely in a bowl on the dinner table. Far fresher than what's trucked in to the store. I bet the Proverbs 31 woman grew her own lettuce, and served it proudly to her family.
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RE: Container Gardening Help - 3/17/2008 7:16:16 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4650
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Auben
I've got sprouts downstairs too. Mostly broccoli with some spinach thrown in.
It is a very exciting feeling!
Have you tried a really thick mulch, Ryanne? I'm terrible too but where I live it doesn't matter too much until later July. If I can remember to water every week or two and I mulch then they're usually ok, even in a raised bed.
Can I put it in a pot? We live in an apartment so everything I grow is in pots, big and small.
_____________________________
Ryanne Gabriella Alexis born 8-22-07!
The opinions stated in the above post are solely mine and in no way should they be
construed as offensive due to your own insecurity.
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RE: Container Gardening Help - 3/18/2008 10:05:22 AM
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deermousie
Posts: 1399
Joined: 9/26/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisCovenant
Thanks for all the advice. It is a bit overwhelming, but the more I learn and disgest can be built on when I am ready to mature a bit more. I'll probably reread all the advice I'm given over the next couple of weeks and glean things I didn't see before with each read. It will be like Bible Study. 
You're welcome! Please don't try to do it all at once, or you'll get overwhelmed. Increase little by little. Get the sun right first, and then the water, and that's the majority of it. Add the little details as you can when you feel like it.
quote:
I do have a question about what you posted: You said to learn from flops. I see lots of wisdom in that... but how will I have the discernment to know why things flop? How can I figure out what went wrong?
I am laughing at this (with you, not at you!). Sometimes, you won't know why things went wrong. We do our best and hope at least part of it goes right. I was really bummed by the tomato failure last year and couldn't figure out what I did wrong until I started talking to veteran gardeners and they had the same problem all over the county. Oh - bad year for tomatoes. It was the weather's fault.
In 1815, a big volcano threw enormous amounts of ash into the atmosphere, and it cut the light from the sun and changed the world's weather. They called it "the year without a summer." There were frosts all summer long; all kinds of things can happen that will affect the garden.
quote:
I also have an unrelated question: In my seed beds, I have several sprouts that are coming out of one spot because I used a couple of seeds in each hole. When do I cull the weaker sprouts? Is it at a certain height...or maybe when one definately appears weaker?
As soon as you can, go ahead and pinch off all but one sprout. It hurts to kill perfectly healthy seedlings, doesn't it? But one will grow well and a few will just interfere with each other, so make the sacrifice so one can do well. Each seed probably cost less than one cent, so protect one of them and let the rest go.
I start a lot of my seeds indoors in those planting trays from Walmart ($2.98, has 72 holes and a clear cover). They're in a dim room until the seed leaves show up, and then they move to 5' away from a bright window, slowly moving closer to the window. When they start getting big enough and it's warm enough outside, I start "hardening" them off: I put them outside on nice days in filtered light and bring them inside when the temperature drops below 50*. I slowly move them into full light in a week (and stay on top of the watering, as they dry out fast in their little pots, and can be lost in less than a day. It's a critical week). They go into the ground at the end of the week, and then the watering is not so critical because the ground doesn't dry out as fast as the little pots. Then I check them twice a day until they get several leaves, and then once a day.
This seems like a lot of work, but it's only a week during hardening off that I really have to stay on top of it. The seeds inside the house I ignore until they sprout, then twice a day checking. In the ground, twice a day, and then once a day until harvest.
Once the harvest is in, I blanche and freeze or can, and then I'm "off" until next spring, and there's food in the pantry and freezer. It's a good deal!
< Message edited by deermousie -- 3/18/2008 10:12:51 AM >
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RE: Container Gardening Help - 3/18/2008 10:29:13 AM
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deermousie
Posts: 1399
Joined: 9/26/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapetos
I've got some tomato plants growing that I'll probably try and keep the seed from. I received the seeds as part of an experiment (comparing old and new varieties) and so they didn't cost me anything ~ but I've only seen one of the varieties in catalogues.
Tomato seeds are great for saving. The varieties usually don't cross pollinate, so the seeds will breed true. When you want to save some for next year, just take a bunch from the tomato you're slicing for your sandwich (with fresh basil leaves and mozzarella cheese on whole wheat bread - to die for!). Put them in a small jar and add half an inch of water. When they get moldy in 3-4 days, rinse them off and dry them on a paper towel out of the sun. The kitchen counter works fine. Then put them in a labeled jar for next year. Done.
I keep my seeds in labeled, folded paper coffee filters. The packets go into a tupperware box so the seeds are all in one place (so I can find them the following spring).
I just started some tomato seeds in the seed tray yesterday. They'll be up in 7-10 days, Lord willing, and when the soil gets warm enough for tomatoes (I use a meat thermometer to check soil temperature 2" deep. Most things won't grow roots at less than 50*, and tomatoes like it 65*) they'll be big enough to go out. Maybe too big, but tomatoes have a weird thing they do you can take advantage of: you can bury almost the whole plant with just a couple leaves sticking out of the ground. Most plants would die from this, but tomatoes will grow more roots on the stem and make a nice root mass... to support that healthy plant and grow lots of fruit later. Bury those big tomato plants - it won't kill them but make better plants (Don't try this with anything else, as it will die).
Happy seed saving, Agapetos! Pretty soon you'll have seed to pass around to neighbors or swap with other seed savers. And you'll be helping keep those marvelous strains from going extinct.
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RE: Container Gardening Help - 
My lettuce is sprouting! My lettuce is sprouting!! 
