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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/14/2009 7:57:46 PM
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littlemary
Posts: 16
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From: Drexel Hill, PA
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: littlemary
quote:
I am curious too about this date. I keep seeing presentations about it on the History chanel, and other chanels.
I saw that 12/21/12 is on the aztec or myan calender (not quite sure which one or if either one is right).
It's the Mayan Calendar, it ends 12/21/12. The calendar is said to be so precise, it forecast solar eclipses 1000 years in advance. Only Gods knows if the date means anything other than the end of the calendar
This is my first post
- Mary
Wouldn't it be strange if God the Father gave the date of the end of the world to a bunch of pagans and not to His Son or any of the Apostles?
[:) I guess we will all find out soon enough, my guesss is sooner.
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/14/2009 11:10:01 PM
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PinkCarnations
Posts: 10801
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Hi Littlemary and welcome to the boards! Why did you take so long to make your first post?
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Thank you Veterans.
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/15/2009 11:30:04 AM
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littlemary
Posts: 16
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From: Drexel Hill, PA
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 Thanks for the welcome... I have been reading posts and finding my way around.
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/16/2009 12:48:41 PM
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LoveNeverDies
Posts: 174
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From: The Imagination! :D
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12/21/12 is like all end of the world predictions, not entirely true. Jesus said He would come when we least expected it. Jesus could come right now or in two months for all we know.
_____________________________
Wind sweeps past the vulture's wings
As it glides through the air with grieving grace
Watching the world from above
Longing for the thing it's wanted for so long
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/16/2009 4:20:41 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 3617
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: upstate NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
As Bob said, he's looking at a Feast Day to commit on the pagan date.
It's just like Y2K, it was bunk.
well $300 BILLION dollars were spent on y2k corrections ... here i don't think any money gets to be spent to find out nothing drastic will happen ...
_____________________________
Photoblogging My Life
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/16/2009 5:21:07 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1971
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
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Perchance. Daniel said the Angel stood with one foot on the water, and one foot on the sand, raised his arm and swore: that time would be no more. The Inca calender expires on 12-21-12 (perchance, time no more).
Then, consider, in 2014-15, there are three lunar eclipses, and two solar eclipses; all on Gods Feast days. Further consider, that in 2016 there are three eclipses, in a three week period (something I can not find happening before).
Take 12-21-12, count back 3.5 years, and we have June 21, 2009.
Then, count forward 3.5 years, and we have June 21, 2016. (Wow, I'm good with dates, ha)
All we would need, then, would be a Peace treaty, for seven years, signed between now and June 21 (+-).
Hamas, and Israel, are getting close to a Hudna treaty, and could sign it within a week or three. Homeroom.
Pack you bags, and shine your shoes, as we enter a time that never has been before, and will never be again.
I am treating this lightly, so, if I miss guess, good laugh. If I am right, then we all need to be in a good mood, so that the joy we suddenly feel, will not put us into cultural shock.
Just a thought, too good to not offer. Perhaps 12-21-12 fits into God's plan?
In Messiah, His Shalom, and answers. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/16/2009 5:59:29 PM
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FreeAtLast09
Posts: 82
Joined: 1/1/2009
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I thought the Antichrist signs the seven-year peace agreement with Israel. Because there have been several major peace treaties signed between Israel and her Arab neighbors, we would have to look for one that will allow Israel to rebuild the Temple, which was destroyed in 70 A.D.
“And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate” (Dan. 9:27).
I was raised a pre-tribber. That's alot to happen in six months don't you think? If you are a pre-tribber, then the rapture would have to occur before this happens and if you are right Navyblueret, than Jesus could be coming for us really soon! But this is my view. I understand other have their own.
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/16/2009 6:27:00 PM
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littlemary
Posts: 16
Joined: 11/19/2008
From: Drexel Hill, PA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lexi_09
I thought the Antichrist signs the seven-year peace agreement with Israel. Because there have been several major peace treaties signed between Israel and her Arab neighbors, we would have to look for one that will allow Israel to rebuild the Temple, which was destroyed in 70 A.D.
“And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate” (Dan. 9:27).
I was raised a pre-tribber. That's alot to happen in six months don't you think? If you are a pre-tribber, then the rapture would have to occur before this happens and if you are right Navyblueret, than Jesus could be coming for us really soon! But this is my view. I understand other have their own.
Maybe, but with current economics, the escalating conflict in Israel and a new President, one big catastrophy could make things happen very quickly. Who knows, maybe the coming 12/21/12 alignment plays it's part.
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/16/2009 6:50:58 PM
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FreeAtLast09
Posts: 82
Joined: 1/1/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saviyd
Amen. And if the year calculation starts from the ordination of the Temple of God in 2014 or 2015: we have 2018 and 2019 respectively for 3 1/2 lunar calendar year placement for tribulation trials of the Saints and Children of God Most High to endure the mark of the number of the name of the false prophet: plus 30-75 days (1290-1260 = 30, 1335-1260 = 75).
quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
Perchance. Daniel said the Angel stood with one foot on the water, and one foot on the sand, raised his arm and swore: that time would be no more. The Inca calender expires on 12-21-12 (perchance, time no more).
Then, consider, in 2014-15, there are four new moon lunar eclipses, and two solar eclipses; all on Gods Feast days. Further consider, that in 2016 there are three eclipses, in a three week period (something I can not find happening before).
Take 12-21-12, count back 3.5 years, and we have June 21, 2009.
Then, count forward 3.5 years, and we have June 21, 2016. (Wow, I'm good with dates, ha)
All we would need, then, would be a Peace treaty, for seven years, signed between now and June 21 (+-).
Hamas, and Israel, are getting close to a Hudna treaty, and could sign it within a week or three. Homeroom.
Pack you bags, and shine your shoes, as we enter a time that never has been before, and will never be again.
I am treating this lightly, so, if I miss guess, good laugh. If I am right, then we all need to be in a good mood, so that the joy we suddenly feel, will not put us into cultural shock.
Just a thought, too good to not offer. Perhaps 12-21-12 fits into God's plan?
In Messiah, His Shalom, and answers. Arley
Oh man  ... um the numbers thing REALLY confuses me and I have no clue how to understand it! I have come to realize that I have been so consumed with the date thing that I have sadly missed out on really connecting with the Lord and paying attention to Him rather than being so focused and consumed with date setting and when things are going to happen. Which isn't bad, but when it takes a hold of all your thinking (like me) its tie to back track and focus on what HE has to say to me. I have learned much from this forum. You are all very informative and I appreciate all that i have learned!  But it all comes down to one shared belief we all have... Christ has tight grasp of us all. And he loves us to pieces!!!  I want to share this message with you all. I am a catholic but hold a different view of the end times than other catholics who do not believe in anything from these forums. It was a message given to a recipient who encountered Christ after being slain (or rested) in the Holy Spirit in Hereford, AZ, USA, and relayed this message to all who were present:
“My Children,
Accept this blessing with great faith. For with this blessing received in faith …. healing shall come. You will be able to withstand the onslaughts of the world and its temptations. Fear not …. for I am always with you. Though you do not see Me …. search for Me. And soon My beloved …. you shall find me. I am the hand that reaches out to you. The hand that lifts you when you fall and though you may fall many times …. I am always there to protect you …. to take you in My arms …. that you may have the peace to continue this journey. This journey comes with many trials and temptations …… but you whose faith has continued to grow ….. will be given the insight to see the snares that have been placed before you …. and you will be able to side step around them …. and continue your journey as my child.
How can I give you my peace? I give you my peace thru prayer. Come to Me …… whisper to Me …. all your needs and allow me as your loving Savior ….. to heal the brokenness within you. Smile My children and rejoice ….. because you have come to holy ground. Holy ground …. where many shall find the peace and healing they desire in their lives. I have already blessed you this day …. so now I leave you with the blessing of one who loves.
Look at the cross …. I am the one who loves”.
I share this with you all because no matter what happens, Christ promises to take care of us all. No matter when the Lord decides to come, rest assured we have such a wonderful future ahead of us... and I hope I will get to meet with you all in paradise with Him! We're gonna be bro's and sister's in Chirst! Cool beans huh!!! God Bless and I love you all! (Even though I don't know you all personally!) Okay okay I'm done! 
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/16/2009 7:20:25 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 804
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shabbat shalom, iwillfearnoevil!
quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
As Bob said, he's looking at a Feast Day to commit on the pagan date.
It's just like Y2K, it was bunk.
well $300 BILLION dollars were spent on y2k corrections ... here i don't think any money gets to be spent to find out nothing drastic will happen ...
As a COBOL computer programmer, I worked on Y2K. The problem was a lack of memory and computer storage size for computers back in the 70s and 80s. To use less memory and storage size (less bytes), they abbreviated the year, as is commonly done, to the last two digits. To compare a future date (such as a due date) to the current date, a simple subtraction was performed. When the number turned from positive to negative (or vice versa depending on the way the subtraction was performed), the current date was past the due date and some action would be required. That worked well while the first two digits remained "19" but presented a problem in the last year of the 20th century, "2000." The year "2000" represented with two digits, "00," would NOT be greater than the previous year "99," and would therefore "hiccup" in the comparison by subtraction mentioned above.
Since those early years, computer storage became cheaper, larger (from kilobytes to megabytes to gigabytes), and more reliable as we moved from floppy discs and bulky hard discs to smaller hard discs that could also be removable; therefore, the concerns in the 70s and 80s were no longer applicable. Since we could apply these better storage methods to the problem, our job was simply to change from 6 bytes to store a date to 8 bytes. Dates were expanded to include the century years as well as the 2-digit representation of the month and the 2-digit representation of the day of the month. That was it.
What was the problem? The VOLUME of the programs! In our company, we had over 6000 individual programs to scan through for any named variable that might represent a date in any form. Then, we had to look for links within those programs to other programs to which those dates may have been cryptically transferred that might not otherwise be recognized as dates. The lateness of when the projects to convert those dates were started and the immense mountain of data most companies each had to go through started the panic.
Of course, the fearmongers took up the cry and expanded upon it to include the Second Coming of Christ, the start of the Seven Years of Tribulation, and the end of the world! Ridiculous and shameful!
As a reality check, I would recommend those who are really concerned about this date to simply Google the date! You will find all sorts of organizations and sports events that are already being scheduled for that date and the surrounding dates, and life is expected to go on as usual by all but those who make a living from worry. 
Have a terrific day in the Messiah!
Roy (aka Retrobyter)
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/16/2009 8:30:34 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1971
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
Status: offline
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For what it is worth, I only offered the above to sober the banter that was getting thick. Do not count on any accuracy to the time-line above, but I believe what I offered to be worthy of some consideration.
(Ooops, I just realized that I called the Myan calendar the 'Inca',,,,,ooooops,,,,,
That calendar, coupled with teachings by Mark Biltz, of El Shadai Ministries, www.elshaddaiministries.us , about the Feasts of God, and his teaching about Solar, and Lunar eclipses in 2014 - 2015 (five total, each on a Feast Day Moed). The signs seem to have some possibility of indicating something going on which will have some magnitude of impact on the world.
Then there is the teaching on 'Daniel's Time line, from www.danielstimeline.com , with an interesting approach which calculates out to end in 2016 (also finding three eclipses within three weeks, just after the Great Tribulation; indicates a possibility of being fairly accurate.
All three events, real or imagined, may, repeat may, have some possibility of needing watching.
Again, don't worry about these events, as the only way to prove anything about prophesying is to look back and say yep, I was right, or nope, I was wrong. I can tell you this, folks, perhaps we are not to know the exact hour, or even day, but we are supposed to stay alert, keep the watch, and be ready for what happens, when happening. When over 25% of God's word is Prophecy, me-thinks, He wants us to discern something from his word; perhaps a quarter of what we know.
I do have the hope of 'Pre-Trib.' Therefore, yes, I feel we could be snatched out of this mortal fiasco mankind is generating, very very soon. I guarantee, beyond doubt, Rapture was not five minutes ago.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and patience. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/19/2009 5:51:37 PM
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syzito
Posts: 11
Joined: 7/10/2005
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The Bible is very clear that the Earth will not be destroyed....period.It states plainly that the Earth endures forever.God will change the Earth but no it will never be destroyed.That is if you believe the Bible instead of some witch doctor or pagan.
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/19/2009 7:07:48 PM
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perfectWeakness129
Posts: 28
Joined: 10/7/2005
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Just heap it up on top of all the other "End of the World" dates. I have a feeling if Christ comes back in our lifetimes, we are all going to be very suprised when it happens.
_____________________________
"If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it." -Mark 8:34b-35
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/19/2009 7:33:53 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1971
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
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quote:
ORIGINAL: syzito
The Bible is very clear that the Earth will not be destroyed....period.It states plainly that the Earth endures forever.God will change the Earth but no it will never be destroyed.That is if you believe the Bible instead of some witch doctor or pagan.
Wow, aren't we confrontational? Shalom syzito.
Please forgive me, if I think that your tirade, addresses my entry #88, since yours is #89. Yes, the Bible does say that Heaven and Earth will cease to exist, but 'My,' (Jesus') words shall never pass away
(Mat 24:35 KJV) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mark 13:31, and Luke 21:33 also say the same.
(Rev 21:1 KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
(emphasis mine//as//)
"...witch doctor or pagan..."? Both of my referrals are ministers. I might be called a witch way doctor, or worse, but never a pagan. Not since my God and Messiah adopted me, and charged me to 'Keep the Watch.'
Here at Crosswalk, most of the participants are considerate but firm. Please join into the respectful nature of our forays of differences, and Welcome aboard, me-hearty. Argggg. Hope to agree with you more often than not.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and cordiality. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/20/2009 2:08:59 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 3617
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: upstate NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: syzito
The Bible is very clear that the Earth will not be destroyed....period.It states plainly that the Earth endures forever.God will change the Earth but no it will never be destroyed.That is if you believe the Bible instead of some witch doctor or pagan.
actually there's a lot of scriptural support on both sides of the 'new earth' debate. it is not a cut and dry issue.
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Photoblogging My Life
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/22/2009 7:53:46 PM
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gentlefriend
Posts: 50
Joined: 11/25/2006
From: Massachusetts
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
quote:
ORIGINAL: IonMoon
quote:
ORIGINAL: cowgirl28
I am having a hard time processing what Scientists are saying about the year 2012 and what that means for earth? Are you guys familiar with what I am talking about? I don't know what to think or feel about it except it quite frankly freaks me out. I keep telling myself that only God knows the end of things and that He wants His children to be prepared, not fearful, but honestly, I am going through a myriad of emotions. How do you guys feel about this?
Scientists aren't saying anything will happen on this date! Some astrologers and other "mystic" minded people are. Don't worry, it is bunk.
Basically, the Mayan calendar ends on or around that date. No problem.
Tara P
Yup.
Actually I was watching the History channel and scientists do talk about 12/21/2012. Something about the earth being in the milky way galaxy which has a black hole and its alignment to the sun. They got pretty technical but its supposed to throw the earth off its axis a bit so the equator will no longer be the center of the earth which is supposed to cause huge earthquakes and flooding and deserts will have rain and plush areas will not..lots of ice melting due to temperature changes & etc.
But reading the Bible...when has God done anything that the whole world expected. As someone stated-a thief would not warn the household before attempting to rob them. We should watch & be prepared and live as if Jesus was coming tomorrow-because for some of us...He very well may be.
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/30/2009 8:47:52 AM
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StrokesJohnson
Posts: 92
Joined: 7/19/2008
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Jesus said to live today & not worry about tomorrow as tomorrow will come with all of it's own cares. If I happen to find myself alive upon Planet Earth in 2012 on 12/12/12 then whatever happens on that day is what happens. If anything happens it will probably be like the movie Groundhog day where the only thing that happens is the same rerun over & over again.
The "Bills" will come in & need to be paid. Perhaps by then the Two Witnesses will appear & begin their days of Prophecy/Witness against this world. Regardless I live today without worry about tomorrow as tomorrow will come with all of it's own cares while the world of man fears in it's flesh about loss of worldly power, & worldly wealth as they plot & scheme upon the earth to obtain more worldly power & more worldly wealth even though Jesus is going to replace their worldly system with the Kingdom.
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/30/2009 10:54:11 AM
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WildByNature
Posts: 622
Joined: 3/17/2006
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quote:
Jesus said to live today & not worry about tomorrow as tomorrow will come with all of it's own cares.
Jesus was talking about not worrying about daily cares such as food, clothing, etc. -- that God will provide such things. With regard to the end of days and His coming, Jesus more emphatically stressed the importance of "watching" and being ready. He even told us the signs to watch for and rebuked those who thought it less important to see IT approaching than seeing the approaching change in seasons.
As for 12/21/12, I believe there IS some validity to it. Satan knows prophecy better than we do. I believe Satan is setting the stage of deceipt to explain away some biblical prophetic happening to the people of the world.
If the world is aware of the possibility that something could happen at that time that could possibly cause millions of people to disappear from the face of the earth ... how easy would it be to explain it away scientifically and refute any claim that the happening was biblical?
Mind you, I am not trying to say that this is when the rapture will happen or that this will be the day of His coming ... I'm just ready and watching.
Maranatha !!!
_____________________________
Wild by nature; grafted by Grace
(Rom 11:13-25)
<><
FYI: According to US Code, flying the flag upside-down is a recognized signal that our nation is in distress or crisis.
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/30/2009 11:27:59 AM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 728
Joined: 10/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WildByNature
quote:
Jesus said to live today & not worry about tomorrow as tomorrow will come with all of it's own cares.
Jesus was talking about not worrying about daily cares such as food, clothing, etc. -- that God will provide such things. With regard to the end of days and His coming, Jesus more emphatically stressed the importance of "watching" and being ready. He even told us the signs to watch for and rebuked those who thought it less important to see IT approaching than seeing the approaching change in seasons.
As for 12/21/12, I believe there IS some validity to it. Satan knows prophecy better than we do. I believe Satan is setting the stage of deceipt to explain away some biblical prophetic happening to the people of the world.
If the world is aware of the possibility that something could happen at that time that could possibly cause millions of people to disappear from the face of the earth ... how easy would it be to explain it away scientifically and refute any claim that the happening was biblical?
Mind you, I am not trying to say that this is when the rapture will happen or that this will be the day of His coming ... I'm just ready and watching.
Maranatha !!!
yep, and another observation might be this; If Satan wants to make a messiah figure out of AC, then what better way than to get best part of the world anxious of the worlds end, then when it seems like it may just be happening through various world troubles, up steps AC with his solution. Causing the world to believe that he truly is a saviour.
The Christian should know that when the world stresses that it may be the end, that it is not, only a time of trouble that actually raises faith the the return of Jesus is soon, and will put the deciever under foot !
One things for sure. Lying wonders and 'false' signs are a foot! This claim just may be 'the lie' that those that did not believe the love of the truth will believe. This and many other 'Lies' that even now the masses are taking in!
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies. Rom 8:33
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/30/2009 12:21:11 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6344
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WildByNature
Jesus was talking about not worrying about daily cares such as food, clothing, etc. -- that God will provide such things. With regard to the end of days and His coming, Jesus more emphatically stressed the importance of "watching" and being ready. He even told us the signs to watch for and rebuked those who thought it less important to see IT approaching than seeing the approaching change in seasons.
Watching, which was rebuked immediately after the Lord ascended, makes you ready how?
I'm ready right now and it has nothing to do with date-setting nor fear nor even who the Beast is and when he'll be revealed.
It has to do with my relationship to Jesus that was made by God's grace through faith with the witness of God's Holy Spirit within.
Until He returns, He has charged us to Go and make disciples, not watching in dred or fear.
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/30/2009 12:48:46 PM
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WildByNature
Posts: 622
Joined: 3/17/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Watching, which was rebuked immediately after the Lord ascended, makes you ready how?
LOL. "Watching" for the Lord's return was NOT rebuked after the Lord ascended. And, I NEVER said watching "makes you ready".
quote:
I'm ready right now and it has nothing to do with date-setting nor fear nor even who the Beast is and when he'll be revealed.
Ditto.
quote:
Until He returns, He has charged us to Go and make disciples, not watching in dred or fear.
Who is watching in "dred or fear"? I am watching in eager anticipation of the glorious return of my Lord and Savior -- my whole reason for living.
As to your belief that you have been charged with a "great commission", I would be happy to debate that with you in an appropriate thread.
Meanwhile, I pray that you have made mention to any disciples you have "gone and made" that He is soon to return.
_____________________________
Wild by nature; grafted by Grace
(Rom 11:13-25)
<><
FYI: According to US Code, flying the flag upside-down is a recognized signal that our nation is in distress or crisis.
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/30/2009 12:58:04 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6344
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WildByNature
As to your belief that you have been charged with a "great commission", I would be happy to debate that with you in an appropriate thread.
You think Matthew 28 has no application to us today?
Explains a lot...
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RE: What do you guys think about 12/21/12? - 1/30/2009 1:38:36 PM
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WildByNature
Posts: 622
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
You think Matthew 28 has no application to us today?
Explains a lot...
My friend, your constant jumping to wrong conclusions is tiresome and judgmental.
Since you are obviously not interested in discussing anything with any degree of civility or Christian witness, I will simply wish you a blessed day so that others may get back to discussing the OP.
_____________________________
Wild by nature; grafted by Grace
(Rom 11:13-25)
<><
FYI: According to US Code, flying the flag upside-down is a recognized signal that our nation is in distress or crisis.
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