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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/8/2008 8:39:36 AM
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AllForIsrael
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I am not calling anyone names thank you...... Now to your question at hand. In G-ds image yes. He did create land animals not arguing with that. I believe it occurred. I am not saying that the facts in Genesis never occurred either. What I am saying is that there is no proof that man was here before the dinosaurs. Could they have co-existed at some point yes I believe they could have. But Doc just because the mention of dinosaurs got left out of the Bible does not mean they were made up creatures. I have a problem with this Creation Theory it don't make sense. Now if everyone else believes it thats fine with me but I just have a problem with it...There are things that could have happened outside Biblical context thats all I am saying.My questioning this theory is no worse that people sitting around and questioning End Times theory. If I gave anyone the impression I do not believe the Bible then I was wrong, but no proof has been presented here that would justify man before the dinosaurs.
< Message edited by Two -- 3/8/2008 8:46:54 AM >
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/8/2008 9:12:25 AM
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drmark
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Two, maybe you're not name-calling, but you're certainly not reading clearly. Genesis 1:24-31 states that G-d created all the land animals (surely that includes the behemoth!) and then created mankind. Where did you get this before nonsense?
So, I ask you again, why do you believe we're created in G-d's Image yet you don't believe dinosaurs were created during the same day humans were? Your reading is inconsistent!
BTW, Genesis is not a theory - it is the authoritative, inerrant divinely-inspired historical account of the origins of the universe!
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/8/2008 2:21:59 PM
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unclemonkey
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ORIGINAL:Twoquote:
quote:
Accepting the Bible as the inerrant word of God is a “fanatical view”?
Accepting it the way some folks do is.
I see. You are ranting about something other than what I have presented in this thread. That’s nice to know.
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Get a life.
Again, look in the mirror.
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Agian look it up.
Could you please provide me with some assistance on this? I have been trying to find references of alligators eating grass “as an ox”, but I haven’t been able to find any. I be willing to bow to your superior intellect if you would please enlighten me on the subject. Got any cites?
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You don’t think God eye witnessed the creation?
Yeah he did.
Then please explain why you refuse to accept the Bible as God’s eyewitness account of creation. You don’t think God knows how to say what He means?
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Correct it is. But that don't make you an expert.
I am not claiming myself as an expert, but rather that the expert is the author of the Bible, i.e. God is the expert. That’s why I quote the Bible for my references. Unlike you, I accept the Bible as authoritative over my own ability to reason.
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Believe that if you wish but it contradicts the Bible.
Agian for those that cannot read "MILLIONS OF YEARS"
Do you suppose that shouting something makes it true? Please provide the Biblical reference for “MILLIONS OF YEARS”. If you can’t then your ascertain is an obvious contradiction of the Bible.
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“All scripture is given by inspiration of God,” – 2nd Timothy 3:16a
I will take God’s word over yours any day.
Yeah but humans did the writing.
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” – 2nd Peter 1:20-21
They wrote as inspired of the Holy Ghost to write. The Bible is God’s word, not man’s word.
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Do you think that asserting your belief over and over somehow makes it true?
No but apparently you do....
I have been quoting Scripture. YOU are the one who keeps asserting your personal view as though repeating it enough times makes it so.
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/8/2008 2:23:30 PM
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AllForIsrael
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Have a nice day...............don't agree with your info in the website you have either. Agian have a nice day......
< Message edited by Two -- 3/8/2008 2:47:58 PM >
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/8/2008 3:07:23 PM
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unclemonkey
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ORIGINAL:Twoquote:
Had they been would not have scripture mentioned dinosaurs? It don't.
Ah, but that’s where you are wrong. Scripture DOES mention dinosaurs. As correctly pointed out by drmark ALL land animals, which includes the land dwelling dinosaurs, were created on the sixth day.
I doubt that you realize that “Behemoth” is a ‘phonetic’ translation. When the King James translation was prepared the translators were unable to match the description of the Behemoth to any known animal so they used the English spelling that matched the Hebrew sound of the word. Believe it or not they DID know of alligators, elephants and hippos. We do know of an animal now that does match the description of the Behemoth and that animal is a dinosaur.
I also doubt that you realize the reason you can’t find the word dinosaur in the Bible is because the word dinosaur wasn’t coined until several decades AFTER the King James translation was completed.
You told me to “look it up”, to which I replied you need to follow your own advice. Please cite where you have looked up the information convincing you that an animal “which eats grass as an ox” might be an alligator.
I am not asking anything of you that I am not willing to comply with myself. HERE is a cite for dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible.
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An account given to Moses after the fact. Why? Cause Moses could not have been around at the time of Adam and Eve...
Have you already forgotten 2nd Timothy 3:16? Or have you simply chosen to ignore it?
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Not nonsense.
Your claim that we assert that man existed BEFORE dinosaurs IS nonsense. No one here has made any such claim.
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I like I said before I have a problem with this creation junk.....
What you have been confronted with is what the Bible says about creation. Think about it.
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/8/2008 3:14:41 PM
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unclemonkey
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ORIGINAL:Twoquote:
don't agree with your info in the website you have either.
You don’t agree with my presentation of “Life’s most important question”? I agree that I need to redo it with a higher quality camcorder, but what is it about the content you disagree with?
By not being specific you imply that you disagree with everything on my website.
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/8/2008 3:23:36 PM
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AllForIsrael
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No not everything just the dinosaur part is what I disagree with. Site looks pretty good I really see no need to re-do it.....
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/8/2008 4:12:57 PM
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unclemonkey
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ORIGINAL:Twoquote:
No not everything just the dinosaur part is what I disagree with.
I hate to pop your bubble, but your disagreement with it doesn’t make it wrong.
Could you please be more specific? You do agree that dinosaurs did exist don’t you?
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Site looks pretty good I really see no need to re-do it.....
What I need to redo is the video taped portions of “Life’s Most Important Question” to get rid of the distracting background noise. The noise is there because I used a cheap camcorder.
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/8/2008 5:44:08 PM
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DanJames
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It seems like this site is filled to the brim with people that start threads and never stay around to direct the conversation. Jbow, did we answer the OP or not?
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/8/2008 6:33:27 PM
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unclemonkey
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ORIGINAL:Twoquote:
Well, thats the beauty of it, opinions are not forbidden are they?
The only time I have a problem with opinions is when people do as you have done in this thread and assert that their opinion should be accepted as authoritative over Scripture.
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You do agree that dinosaurs did exist don’t you?
Yep that they did.....
Ok. We agree on that point. What specifically do you disagree with? Just a blanket “I disagree” in not conducive to discussion.
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/8/2008 6:55:47 PM
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AllForIsrael
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quote:
The only time I have a problem with opinions is when people do as you have done in this thread and assert that their opinion should be accepted as authoritative over Scripture.
Alright, your right, I am wrong. You happy? I never tried to assert or say that my opinion was authorative over scripture. There is no mention of dinosaurs in the Bible just references to large animals. I have done research and discovered that the term dinosaur was not coined until 1821 or something like that. Now that would explain why there is no direct reference to the word dinosaur in the scripture.....that would also explain the fact that they used the terms they used. It would have been impossible for the authors of the Bible to have known about them in their time frame or period. That said, there is some confusion here in Genesis simply due to the fact that Moses wrote the first five chapters of the Old Testament (Torah). The disagreement I have is in the terms or definitions they used. Now it is possible I misunderstood the use of those words in scripture. There is no law that says I cannot question the scripture people do it every day.
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/8/2008 8:13:52 PM
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drmark
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quote:
It would have been impossible for the authors of the Bible to have known about them in their time frame or period. You're really not getting this, are you, Two. Unclemonkey and I propose that both the behemoth and leviathan are extinct dinosaurs well known by the ancients as described in the Bible. Do you have some other reasonable explanation as to why you feel they were not known in Bible times or just your reliance on faulty dating techniques?
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/9/2008 6:06:43 AM
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EcclesFruitcake
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Unclemonkey and I propose that both the behemoth and leviathan are extinct dinosaurs well known by the ancients as described in the Bible. Do you have some other reasonable explanation as to why you feel they were not known in Bible times or just your reliance on faulty dating techniques?
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ORIGINAL: Unclemonkey
“Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. – Job 40:15
How many alligators have you seen eating grass as an ox?
“He moveth his tail like a cedar:” – Job 40:17a
Have you ever seen an elephant’s tail or a hippo’s tail?
I suggest you take your own advice to “look it up”. The description of Behemoth in Job is an excellent description of a sauropod.
The descriptions of the behemoth and the leviathon in Job 40 and 41 are neither excellent or specific, this leaves ample room for different interpretations:
For example Job 40:
“Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox." Job 40:15
Hippos eat grass. Are sauropods more likely to eat tree foliage or grass? Especially those which held their necks upright!
“He moveth his tail like a cedar” Job 40:17
This line is describing a tails action not size. Trees sway in the wind perhaps akin to how hippopotami swish their tails, which they do frequently. Moreover the tail of a hippo is somewhat of a strange sight in that it is out of proportion with the rest of the animal and active whereas the tail of a sauropod is a feature less remarkable than the animals long neck or even the sheer scale of the beast - also their tails likely did not move much!
Compare a cedar branch with a hippos tail.
"He lies under the lotus trees, In a covert of reeds and marsh." Job 40:21
Can a sauropod hide in the reeds and marsh of a river like hippos habitually do?
"The shady trees cover him with their shadow" Job 40:22
I find it far easier to imagine hippos in the shade of trees rather than sauropods - the largest animals known to have lived on land.
Positing that the behemoth and leviathan are dinosaurs is purely wishful thinking - an attempt to reinforce a bizarre and impossible worldview which necessitates dinosaurs and humans living concurrently.
< Message edited by EcclesFruitcake -- 3/9/2008 8:54:33 AM >
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/9/2008 7:33:33 AM
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AllForIsrael
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quote:
behemoth and leviathan are extinct dinosaurs
Neither are dinosaurs I don't have to get it. Terms are to broad and encompass a wide range of animal life.
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Can a sauropod hide in the reeds and marsh of a river like hippos habitually do?
Agree. They cannot. Some of these creatures reached up to 60 feet long and 40 feet tall be like trying to hide a Mack truck in a parking lot full of VWs.
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Hippos eat grass. Are sauropods more likely to eat tree foliage or grass? Especially those which held their necks upright!
Agree.
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I find it far easier to imagine hippos in the shade of trees rather than sauropods - the largest animals known to have lived on land.
Agree.
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The discriptions of the behemoth and the leviathon in Job 40 and 41 are neither excellent or specific, this leaves ample room for different interpretations:
Agian I agree.
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Do you have some other reasonable explanation as to why you feel they were not known in Bible times or just your reliance on faulty dating techniques?
No fault in dating. Scripture reference is too broad to have encompassed a creature as large as a dinosaur. The terms used are often given to mammals of large size such as the whale.
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/9/2008 7:37:18 AM
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unclemonkey
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ORIGINAL:Twoquote:
There is no law that says I cannot question the scripture people do it every day.
I constantly question my understanding of Scripture. However, my way of resolving those questions is by digging deeper into Scripture rather than trying to make them fit what seems reasonable to me.
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/9/2008 8:02:28 AM
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AllForIsrael
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quote:
rather than trying to make them fit what seems reasonable to me.
I am not trying to make it fit any thing in light of that I really do not care to be honest. Post #40 said it better than I ever could and I agree with what Post #40 said. You and drmark have presented your case and evidence I don't buy it so with that we have hijacked this thread long enough sorry to the original starter of this thread did not mean to take over. Been a good debate enjoyed it but this horse has been beat to death with no reasonable solution in sight.
G-d most likely figured that people would question the word its only natural its going to happen and nothing you or anyone else can do about it. Taking the scripture at its literal meaning it in no way points to the dinosaur. I have said all I am going to say on the matter....G-d said it I read it but that does not mean I cannot question it. That makes me a sinner so be it we are all sinners no one is perfect and no one is an expert on the word of G-d but G-d himself. If I have a revelation low and behold telling me otherwise then I will accept what is written.
Times change, people change things get twisted. Words get lost in translation, meanings change, writers get distracted things happen its the way of the world. The Bible has been translated in so many different langauges till its hard to know which one to believe. Like people no two versions are the same.
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/9/2008 9:14:01 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Positing that the behemoth and leviathan are dinosaurs is purely wishful thinking - an attempt to reinforce a bizarre and impossible worldview which necessitates dinosaurs and humans living concurrently. An impossible worldview, EF? - only for the evolutionist whose nonbiblical science requires 500 million years of RM + NS! Mark 10:27
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I am not trying to make it fit any thing in light of that I really do not care to be honest. I've asked you twice now, AFI. How do you understand Genesis 1:24-31 to mean that dinosaurs (part of all land animals) were living 100 million years before humans when both were created on the sixth day? What is your honest explanation of this apparent contradiction? If you "really do not care to be honest", why are you posting on a Christian Forum?
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Words get lost in translation, meanings change, writers get distracted things happen its the way of the world. The Bible has been translated in so many different langauges till its hard to know which one to believe. Like people no two versions are the same. So go back to the original Hebrew, AFI, and read an interlinear text for yourself. How long was evening and morning, the sixth day? What are land animals? How were humans created? Believe the Holy Spirit if you are a Believer. G-d's Word means what G-d's Word says!
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Times change, people change things get twisted. But God never changes - Hebrews 13:8
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/9/2008 9:28:09 AM
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AllForIsrael
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quote:
If you "really do not care to be honest", why are you posting on a Christian Forum?
You getting tired of beating this horse? I am a Christian not for you to judge weather I am or am not. Thats the problem with it today we are quick to judge each other and then call ourselves Christians kind of an oxymoron don't you think? Maybe a little Anti-Seminitic
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/9/2008 10:30:59 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Maybe a little Anti-Seminitic I have nothing against Seminole Indians.
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/10/2008 5:22:41 AM
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AllForIsrael
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You don't know what that means? An expert and you do not know? Shame,shame................hehehehehehe
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/10/2008 6:08:12 AM
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unclemonkey
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ORIGINAL:AllforIsrealquote:
You don't know what that means? An expert and you do not know? Shame,shame................hehehehehehe
It does help to use actual words when you want anyone to understand you. Possibly the word you were after is “anti–Semitic”?
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/10/2008 6:01:14 PM
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AllForIsrael
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Yeah but an expert should recognize these things would you not think?
< Message edited by AllForIsrael -- 3/10/2008 7:39:50 PM >
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RE: Well then, back to the dinos... - 3/10/2008 6:55:00 PM
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DanJames
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Dinosaurs? Where is the guy that wrote the OP?
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