Well then, back to the dinos... (Full Version)

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jbow -> Well then, back to the dinos... (3/3/2008 10:32:31 PM)

I tried searching to see if this had been answered but I came to a dead end so I will ask it here.

What about the dinosaurs, not the 'wooly mammoth' or the 'sabre tooth tiger' which are more recent animals but the "*saurs", the allisarus, the triceritops, the brontasaurous, the T-rex, the raptor.

I have heard two theories that make sense to me.

1: Before the flood a mist went up from the ground and watered the earth, there was no rain. Before the flood there was a 'vapor canopy', no blue sky, and no 'full sun'.
After the flood there was rain and blue sky but the dinos could not adapt and they died out after the flood. Noah took them on the ark as babies.
The world that then was, the world that is now, and the world that is to come.
2 Peter 3: 5, 6-7

or

2: They lived in a time before man when Lucifer walked in Eden and there was a gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.
God created the world millions of years ago, Lucifer was here, dinosaurs were here. He fell. God made everything void and started over. Created man. Etc. Ezekial 28: 12-19

FWIW I do not hold to the "fossil fuel" theory, it really make's no sense to me. I think the "abiogenic petroleum theory" make's much more sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

SO... my question is this. Considering the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. Considering we have bones... and we have scripture. Considering that someone here has the Holy Spirit in measure enough to know the truth... what is it?
I do not want your opinion. I want the truth.

If you do not know the truth, please do not answer.

J



Jhud -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/3/2008 10:57:12 PM)

quote:

SO... my question is this. Considering the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. Considering we have bones... and we have scripture. Considering that someone here has the Holy Spirit in measure enough to know the truth... what is it?
I do not want your opinion. I want the truth.

If you do not know the truth, please do not answer.


So does this mean we only allowed to pick from the two choices above?



unclemonkey -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/4/2008 12:08:02 AM)

ORIGINAL: jbow
quote:

not the 'wooly mammoth' or the 'sabre tooth tiger' which are more recent animals

That is a mater of worldview. Dinosaurs and mammals were created within the same 24 hour period.

quote:

I do not want your opinion. I want the truth.

“For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,” – Exodus 20:11a



Cc20 -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/5/2008 1:51:45 AM)

what about the scripture that reads "there were giants that roamed the earth "in genesis? that would apply to dinos right? and other similar beasts.



drmark -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/5/2008 4:26:30 PM)

Both the behemoth described in Job 40 and the leviathan in Job 41 have many characteristics consistent with sauran anatomy. What actually is your "quest for truth", jbow, relative to extinct animals?



jbow -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/5/2008 4:35:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

SO... my question is this. Considering the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. Considering we have bones... and we have scripture. Considering that someone here has the Holy Spirit in measure enough to know the truth... what is it?
I do not want your opinion. I want the truth.

If you do not know the truth, please do not answer.


So does this mean we only allowed to pick from the two choices above?


No, of course not. I am not the thought police [;)]

J



jbow -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/5/2008 4:43:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

Both the behemoth described in Job 40 and the leviathan in Job 41 have many characteristics consistent with sauran anatomy. What actually is your "quest for truth", jbow, relative to extinct animals?


Simple curiosity. I have never been quite sure about old earth/new earth. I believe, without a doubt, that the creation story in Genesis is literal and that it took place aprox 6,000 years ago. I have no problem with that.

I have wondered if dinos were part of this creation or if there may have been a prior creation where Lucifer may have ruled here before his fall, (the Ezekial passage) the thinking being that he was in Eden, he sinned, God turned the earth inside out, (the reason all the gems etc are under the ground), He made the earth void and in Genesis He re-made the earth and gave it to man. Lucifer, now Satan, crept in and fouled it.

Now... I am not saying I believe any of this, it is just a theory I have heard. All I know I believe is what is written in Genesis as regards the world that now stands and the creation of man. Maybe the dinos could not adapt after the flood due to the changed climate...

Again, simple curosity. The reason I set apart the sauros from the mammoth and the sabretooth is because we have found both the mammoth and the S'tooth in the flesh but no saurs.

Also I might add that I do not believe in evolution, I believe in devolution.

J



Jhud -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/5/2008 5:34:55 PM)

quote:

Also I might add that I do not believe in evolution, I believe in devolution.


You know I was a big fan in the late 70's, but thought after "Whip it" came out they had gone commercial.



jfcbrian -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/5/2008 6:34:02 PM)

My suggestion is to read genesis, if it doesn’t line up with that then it is probably comes from man.


Another thing is I would be careful of the theories that tries to fit the Bible into the man made theories.

By the way I believe that there are a lot of problems with the canopy theory, but I still believe that it is the best answer for the size of the fossilized plants and animals.



AllForIsrael -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/6/2008 3:00:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: unclemonkey

ORIGINAL: jbow
quote:

not the 'wooly mammoth' or the 'sabre tooth tiger' which are more recent animals

That is a mater of worldview. Dinosaurs and mammals were created within the same 24 hour period.

quote:

I do not want your opinion. I want the truth.

“For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,” – Exodus 20:11a

quote:

That is a mater of worldview. Dinosaurs and mammals were created within the same 24 hour period.


How exactly do you know that? The earliest period the Trassic period ocurred some 230 millions years ago. The dinosaurs he spoke of only occurred some 65 million years ago. Most likely these animals being referred to or hippos or something of that nature. I do not buy into this New Earth Old Earth stuff or the Big Bang junk or any other theory. Its entirely possible that dinosaurs could have existed along with man but fossil records indicate different. You cannot take the spots off a leopard nor can you rearrange them to fit your scenario...is it possible that as Christians we cannot see the forest for the trees....??



drmark -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/6/2008 6:10:49 PM)

quote:

How exactly do you know that?
Genesis 1:24-31.

quote:

The earliest period the Trassic period ocurred some 230 millions years ago. The dinosaurs he spoke of only occurred some 65 million years ago.
How exactly do you know that? Are there eyewitness accounts from 100 million years ago? Genesis is the Eyewitness acccount of day 6 of creation. That's good enough for me!



AllForIsrael -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/6/2008 7:32:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

How exactly do you know that?
Genesis 1:24-31.

quote:

The earliest period the Trassic period ocurred some 230 millions years ago. The dinosaurs he spoke of only occurred some 65 million years ago.
How exactly do you know that? Are there eyewitness accounts from 100 million years ago? Genesis is the Eyewitness acccount of day 6 of creation. That's good enough for me!


Go interview a lizard or an alligator for an eyewitness account. I am not going to post what I want to post or they would boot me outta here.



drmark -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/6/2008 10:16:39 PM)

quote:

Go interview a lizard or an alligator for an eyewitness account.
Say what? You know some reptiles that are 100 million years old? Or will the answer to that question also get you booted? BTW, there are plenty of folks posting their belief in zillions of years of goo-to-you evolution on these threads. Some of them even profess to be Christians, Two.



AllForIsrael -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/7/2008 5:25:16 AM)

I don't profess to be anything. I am just not blind to the fact that some things existed out of context of the Bible.



drmark -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/7/2008 8:25:56 AM)

quote:

I am just not blind to the fact that some things existed out of context of the Bible.
Yes, but zillions of years of goo-to-you evolution is not one of them! Nor are dinos living and dying 65 million years before sin entered the world.



DanJames -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/7/2008 11:06:53 AM)

JBow, is there a specific question you have about dinosaurs? I don't think it's necessary to try to fit them into a Day-Age theory or a Gap-Theory (which is the label of the pre-Adamic world you described). It's so difficult to imagine a world where man and dinosaurs walked together because all we ever see of them is the dirt-ground palm tree looking world that's been painted and shown to us throughout our lives. I think, though that there is evidence in archeology that man and dinosaurs have coexisted.



AllForIsrael -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/7/2008 4:30:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

I am just not blind to the fact that some things existed out of context of the Bible.
Yes, but zillions of years of goo-to-you evolution is not one of them! Nor are dinos living and dying 65 million years before sin entered the world.

Afraid so....Read the time period some of the prophets existed had they been around they would have surely noted the existence of dinosaurs. Prehistoric begginngs are long before the time of man. They pre-date anything after their existence known fact...Prophets appeared after the Age of the Dinosaurs not before.....trying to explain this away with the Bible not going to work. They were here some 235 million years prior in the Triassic and 65 million years later in the Crecetous period. Not counting the Jurassic period.This Creatism and Evolution stuff is junk plain and simple. God created the heavens and the earth but did he reveal all to man?????



unclemonkey -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/7/2008 5:26:38 PM)

ORIGINAL:Two
quote:

Its entirely possible that dinosaurs could have existed along with man but fossil records indicate different.

What you mean is that the INTERPRETATION of the fossil record you choose to accept disagrees with scripture. It’s a mater of authority. I prefer to accept God’s word over atheistic interpretations.

quote:

I am not going to post what I want to post or they would boot me outta here.

Then maybe you are in the wrong forum.



unclemonkey -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/7/2008 5:35:35 PM)

ORIGINAL:Two
quote:

God created the heavens and the earth but did he reveal all to man?????

So we should disregard what God did reveal?
“For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,” – Exodus 20:11a



AllForIsrael -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/7/2008 5:45:13 PM)

quote:

So we should disregard what God did reveal?
“For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,” – Exodus 20:11a


No. But this impression that nothing exist if its not in the bible I do not agree with...

quote:

What you mean is that the INTERPRETATION of the fossil record you choose to accept disagrees with scripture. It’s a mater of authority. I prefer to accept God’s word over atheistic interpretations.


I accept Gods word. Interpretation is a matter of choice. I choose to believe what I do as you do. This blatant disregard for things that are right in front of someones eyes is another matter entirely...we as Christians are so blind to interpretation we cannot see the forest for the trees.

quote:

Then maybe you are in the wrong forum.


No not in the wrong forum.

Like I said you need eyewitness accounts interview a alligator or a lizard. You have eywitness accounts of when earth was formed? This is all ridiculous and petty debate really. Cause when you get right down to it G-d knows the truth. Dinosaurs may not have been a part of biblical record but they were here long before or with man on earth....

Known fact you cannot accept something you do not acknowledge and your as good as saying they never existed even with the evidence right in front of your noses. Want me to summon up a T Rex I got one here some where...



unclemonkey -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/7/2008 7:10:07 PM)

ORIGINAL:Two
quote:

No. But this impression that nothing exist if its not in the bible I do not agree with...

However, what you are proposing is not simply “something that isn’t in the Bible”. Dinosaurs being extinct for 65 million years CONTRADICTS what is in the Bible and THAT is what I reject.

quote:

Interpretation is a matter of choice.

That is exactly my point. The interpretation we choose to accept is determined by our worldview.

quote:

I choose to believe what I do as you do.

The difference is that what I choose to believe is determined by the Bible. What you choose to believe is determined by your own ability to reason. I find the Bible more reliable than human reasoning.

quote:

This blatant disregard for things that are right in front of someones eyes is another matter entirely...

Like the Bible for instance?

quote:

we as Christians are so blind to interpretation we cannot see the forest for the trees.

If you want to call believing God “blindness” that’s your prerogative, but I strongly disagree.

quote:

You have eywitness accounts of when earth was formed?

Yes. He gave us the account in the Bible.

quote:

Cause when you get right down to it G-d knows the truth.

And God gave us the true account of our origins in the Bible. If you choose not to believe God that again is YOUR free choice.

quote:

Dinosaurs may not have been a part of biblical record

What do you suppose the Behemoth is?

quote:

but they were here long before or with man on earth....

If you call a few hours “long before” I agree.



AllForIsrael -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/7/2008 7:45:43 PM)

quote:

However, what you are proposing is not simply “something that isn’t in the Bible”. Dinosaurs being extinct for 65 million years CONTRADICTS what is in the Bible and THAT is what I reject.


Read. They were on earth long before the 65 million year period thats only the Crecetous period.

quote:

That is exactly my point. The interpretation we choose to accept is determined by our worldview.


Whos yours or mine? No world view to it.

quote:

The difference is that what I choose to believe is determined by the Bible. What you choose to believe is determined by your own ability to reason. I find the Bible more reliable than human reasoning.


Bible was written by humans translating G-ds word.

quote:

Like the Bible for instance?



Your words not mine.


quote:

If you want to call believing God “blindness” that’s your prerogative, but I strongly disagree.


I believe G-d. Just not some of these fanatical views.

quote:

Yes. He gave us the account in the Bible.


Eyewitness account?

quote:

And God gave us the true account of our origins in the Bible. If you choose not to believe God that again is YOUR free choice.


I believe G-d just not some of the rhetoric being spewed out here.

quote:

What do you suppose the Behemoth is?


That could be any thing from a hippo to an alligator or an elephant. The word does not point to dinosaurs....look it up...
quote:


If you call a few hours “long before” I agree.


No such animal. Millions of years not hours. Well I will leave y'all with this pointless discussion and go find another thread. Arguing with a wall never got anywhere.



unclemonkey -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/8/2008 12:22:53 AM)

ORIGINAL:Two
quote:

Read. They were on earth long before the 65 million year period thats only the Crecetous period.

Do you think that asserting your belief over and over somehow makes it true?

quote:

Bible was written by humans translating G-ds word.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God,” – 2nd Timothy 3:16a
I will take God’s word over yours any day.

quote:

quote:

quote:

This blatant disregard for things that are right in front of someones eyes is another matter entirely...

Like the Bible for instance?

Your words not mine.

I am not the one disregarding the Bible. Maybe you should try putting the Bible right in front of your eyes sometime.

quote:

I believe G-d. Just not some of these fanatical views.

Accepting the Bible as the inerrant word of God is a “fanatical view”?

quote:

Eyewitness account?

You don’t think God eye witnessed the creation?

quote:

I believe G-d just not some of the rhetoric being spewed out here.

The “rhetoric” I have been spewing is Scripture. You claim to believe God but not Scripture? Are you familiar with the word “oxymoron”?
If you want to see the person “spewing rhetoric” here take a look in the mirror.

quote:

quote:

What do you suppose the Behemoth is?

That could be any thing from a hippo to an alligator or an elephant. The word does not point to dinosaurs....look it up...

“Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. – Job 40:15
How many alligators have you seen eating grass as an ox?

“He moveth his tail like a cedar:” – Job 40:17a
Have you ever seen an elephant’s tail or a hippo’s tail?
I suggest you take your own advice to “look it up”. The description of Behemoth in Job is an excellent description of a sauropod.

quote:

Millions of years not hours.

Believe that if you wish but it contradicts the Bible.

quote:

Well I will leave y'all with this pointless discussion and go find another thread. Arguing with a wall never got anywhere.

That’s rich. Again you ought to look in the mirror.



AllForIsrael -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/8/2008 7:05:49 AM)

quote:

Accepting the Bible as the inerrant word of God is a “fanatical view”?


Accepting it the way some folks do is. Get a life.

quote:

“Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. – Job 40:15
How many alligators have you seen eating grass as an ox?

“He moveth his tail like a cedar:” – Job 40:17a
Have you ever seen an elephant’s tail or a hippo’s tail?
I suggest you take your own advice to “look it up”. The description of Behemoth in Job is an excellent description of a sauropod.


Agian look it up.

quote:

You don’t think God eye witnessed the creation?


Yeah he did.

quote:

I am not the one disregarding the Bible. Maybe you should try putting the Bible right in front of your eyes sometime.


Agian get a life.

quote:

The “rhetoric” I have been spewing is Scripture. You claim to believe God but not Scripture? Are you familiar with the word “oxymoron”?
If you want to see the person “spewing rhetoric” here take a look in the mirror.


Correct it is. But that don't make you an expert. The one that should be looking in the mirror is you.

quote:

Believe that if you wish but it contradicts the Bible.


Agian for those that cannot read "MILLIONS OF YEARS"

quote:

“oxymoron”?


Yeah Godzilla was little bitty lizard to.

quote:

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God,” – 2nd Timothy 3:16a
I will take God’s word over yours any day.


Yeah but humans did the writing.

quote:

Do you think that asserting your belief over and over somehow makes it true?


No but apparently you do....

quote:

That’s rich. Again you ought to look in the mirror.


Yeah you do the same pal.......have a nice life. Let me see if I can find that T-Rex, hmmm where is he?



drmark -> RE: Well then, back to the dinos... (3/8/2008 8:23:12 AM)

Two, if you would like to take a break from pre-school namecalling with unclemonkey, I have a couple of questions for you. In Genesis 1:24-31, it is "written by humans translating G-d's Word" that He created all the land animals on the same day as Adam and Eve. Since you do not believe this occurred, how do you interpret the passage? Do you believe we are made in G-d's Image? If so, why do you believe that truth and not the other facts found in Genesis 1?



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