RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (Full Version)

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clag4christ -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/4/2008 9:57:51 PM)

I think Sandy covers her head all the time. [:)]



LaurainAL -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/4/2008 10:09:55 PM)

My husband says that if you genuinely prayer for the person you are angry with that God will change your heart and theirs. You can not hate or stay angry with a person that you are genuinely standing in the gap for.

I have been there too, Nicole.



HisCovenant -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/4/2008 10:11:59 PM)

I understood about when you got angry... you are a lovely woman, not a beast!



BlessedMamaofmany -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/4/2008 10:12:24 PM)

I do, (thanks Kim!)
and I don't want to get nudged for taking this off topic..so I'll answer your pm Nicole =)
Sandy



nicole6598 -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/4/2008 11:17:46 PM)

Thanks Hiscovenant, I just thought I should clear it up, some posts of others were sort of making it seem or whatever that I was angry all the time and at everyone and everything.

Laura I have been praying for the people off and on, but I could do it more.

Sandy I don't mind if you talk about headcovering here as its something that you have said that helped you with your anger, bitterness etc.



nicole6598 -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/4/2008 11:20:07 PM)

Oh, I remembered what I was going to say. I also find it hard to not tell others when a person has wronged me in real life. And that is slander really isn't it? Where do you draw the line about talking to someone to get things off your chest or for advice on the situation and just sort of gossiping about what that person did?
I remember someone said in the 30 day encouragement thread something like "before you go to the phone, go to the throne". I reallly need to get better at that!



Mrs.Wifey -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 12:01:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaurainAL

My husband says that if you genuinely prayer for the person you are angry with that God will change your heart and theirs. You can not hate or stay angry with a person that you are genuinely standing in the gap for.

I have been there too, Nicole.


Exactly this, and it's a lesson I actually learned within my marriage before I learned it anywhere else.

When I humble myself enough to genuinely pray for someone then the anger dissipates and the Lord replaces it with His grace and mercy.

As for gossip, I usually only talk to Micah about things unless I need an outside perspective on them(which usually has to do with certain family members). I have made a deal with God to never, ever talk bad about my husband or to continue to "pick" someone apart past the point of "venting". If I continue to talk about them, IMO, then it becomes gossip.



nicole6598 -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 12:14:48 AM)

see what is venting? It's a fine line I think...



LaurainAL -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 7:44:49 AM)

I think keeping a journal to vent is a good way to get things off of your chest with out running into the gossip trap.



HomeSpunLady -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 8:19:58 AM)

I think if you have a few close friends that you share everything with and vent to them, it's not gossip. It's just sharing with a friend. However, if you share with everyone, then that's gossip. If it comes from your mouth to the ears of one friend and then you use that time to work through it, it's not gossip. We need to get things out. It's a good thing.



Mrs.Wifey -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 9:19:15 AM)

Venting is "I'm so angry because "Sally" just did XYZ", gossip is more like "I'm so made because Sally blah blah blah and she always does this and ugh, can I just tell you, I am SO tired of her attitude".

For me, it's when I go past what the person actually did and start to pick apart their character or personality, and like Kathryn said if I talk about with more then just Micah or a close friend.

I also have a journal like Laura suggested, it's been helpful at certain times when I need more release then just venting.



HisCovenant -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 9:45:51 AM)

And those friends ought to be true friends. If you know one will pass it around, don't use that friend to vent. I also think it's important to use friends who will give you good counsel and who are mature enough to not hold your venting aginst the person you are venting about. For example, you don't want to turn your best friend against your husband. You want a friend to vent with who will look beynd the circumstances and see with God's eyes... impossible, I know... but you want one who is as mature as possible.

Another person to vent to is God. Reading Jeremiah's writings and the Psalms help me to vent and give me a companion in my pain that always eventually leads me back to God's wisdom. Praying through them helps, too.

FYI, Slander is speaking lies and/or is done for the purpose of being malicious to harm a good name. Gossip is divulging personal info about someone to others who have no business hearing it. Gossip is true initially, but often dissenigrates into half truths.



manda59 -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 9:46:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicole6598
Thanks Hiscovenant, I just thought I should clear it up, some posts of others were sort of making it seem or whatever that I was angry all the time and at everyone and everything.


You know, when I read this, I had to check back, thinking that I'd missed some posts - but now I am puzzled, because I've read them all and there's not a single one that does this. Nicole, it's really important to not do people's thinking for them, and presume they must be meaning something negative. Any one of us, including me, who has a tendency to paranoia, needs to learn how to hold themselves in check and not immediately jump to conclusions over what people may mean.

You may well have been concerned that you might have given that impression, but rather than put that on other people, you could have just clarified your own position.

quote:


Oh, I remembered what I was going to say. I also find it hard to not tell others when a person has wronged me in real life. And that is slander really isn't it? Where do you draw the line about talking to someone to get things off your chest or for advice on the situation and just sort of gossiping about what that person did.


The thing I do is to check my motives for telling someone else. If it's not actually just to vent, but to either gain sympathy or get that person on my side against the other one then it's probably best not to do it at all. Truly therapeutic (and constructive) venting is venting that shares how I feel, rather than focussing on what the other person did. If my motive is to get help with dealing with my emotions, in an objective way, then I think that is helpful and constructive (so long as I listen of course!). The most helpful consel I could receive would be the counsel that helped me look at why I was so upset and why I reacted the way I did, and assisted me to find a different, more constructive way of coping next time.



nicole6598 -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 4:04:05 PM)

thanks for your ideas, I think I will try journaling alot of what I feel.
I do have a good friend that I go to to vent etc, she is very mature and although she annoys me (coz sometimes we just want to stay angry at the person a little longer[:D]) she always makes me see the other side too and helps me get through things in a Godly way.



HisCovenant -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 4:15:52 PM)

Another thing I wanted to share with you is something I heard a Christian Speaker say about 7 years ago. She was giving her testimony about how horrible her circumstances were and about how angry, bitter, and hurt she was because these circumstances were caused by others. Then she moved on into speaking about what an ugly woman she'd became to others... always justifying her ugliness because the people she was being ugly to had been ugly to her first. It was the first step in her maturing... recognizing her own lack of control, discipline, goodness, love, patience, kindness, forgiveness, etc.

She then made this statement, "The hardest thing for a Christian to deal with is responding well when they have been wronged." I have meditated on that statement for all these years, and I think there's a measure of truth in that. It may not be the hardest thing, but it is a hard one and quite common among Christians. It's really hard to be humble when you are 100% right and being 100% right can bring you down further than you ever meant to go. Being right can beget hatred, pride, anger, unforgiveness, a haughty attitude, gossip, mailce, slander, self-righteousness... and it's so easy for us to justify these things because we're right.

Anyhow, that statement has given me a lot to chew on over the years, and I thought it might mean something to those of you also dealing with the issue Nicole brings up.



nicole6598 -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 4:18:59 PM)

Thanks Hiscovenant, yes that is hard to respond well when you are wronged. And I do like to be right too [8D]
Thank you I will be trying hard to work on all of this.



HisCovenant -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 4:23:23 PM)

I'm working on it, too. This is a sin that "easily entangles" me. I think that's one reason I can still remember that quote seven years later... God keeps working on me. [;)]



Royal.Fortress -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 4:32:03 PM)

quote:

The thing I do is to check my motives for telling someone else. If it's not actually just to vent, but to either gain sympathy or get that person on my side against the other one then it's probably best not to do it at all. Truly therapeutic (and constructive) venting is venting that shares how I feel, rather than focussing on what the other person did.


Hmmmm ... way to get me thinking! I have this problem a lot at work. We've got a LOT of workplace 'politics' at my place of employment that make it very easy for it to become a "she did/he did" sort of thing. I must confess that I do a lot of 'venting' that is meant to gain sympathy and win people over to my side. That's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to quitting work once the baby's here - to be out of that toxic environment! I know that I'm still responsible for my actions and that I will continue to struggle with this, but I find it particularly difficult at work.



nicole6598 -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 4:36:50 PM)

Yeah Kim I do find that hard too, I am guilty of wanting people to be sympathetic to me and be on my side. I think that is very hard to stop all of a sudden though, its going to be a process. So that's why I think journaling or just going to my one friend who I know tells me the truth will help.
Its hard too when people come to you and you know they are drawing the fine line between gossip/slander and just venting and you find yourself sort of encouraging it instead of stopping it... arrgghh so much to work on!



Mrs.X -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 4:43:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlessedMamaofmany

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59

quote:


Really? That is interesting. Can you explain why?




I'd imagine it's not the actual covering of the head, but what it symbolises (submission and humility). Some people need an outward sign to help them process what it means inside. There's pride in anger, and often that pride needs to be let go of for healing to begin.


Manda stated it very well....thanks Manda!
but to add to it, once I started covering my head, my desire to be honoring to God became much more visable to me (as in the actual covering). It's a tangible symbol of the fruits I want to display....and my covering has been very humbling (in a good way)
My desire is to be empty of myself (and part of that being my tendency towards anger and a short temper). I want to be empty of myself and full of the Spirit..my covering is a constant reminder of that
Sandy

You put it really well Sandy. I'm finding it does the same thing for me. I notice it on my head all the time, probably partly because it's new, but because I can feel it there. I am constantly reminded to be more how God wants me to be.

Nicole, I learned this technique in AA, but I think it applies to anyone with resentment. This is very short version, and if you want the whole thing, you can read Step 4 of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, which you might able to find a free version that is readable online.
The definition of resentment is "anger after the danger is gone." We feel angry when someone or something has threatened something valuable to us, whether it be our pride, pocketbook, self esteem, sex relations, work relations, personal relations, time and there's a bunch more that I forgot what they were. A regular person might be feel justifiably angry WHILE one of these are being threatened. Resentful people continue to feel angry, but they are no longer threatened.

So, this is what you can do. Write down everyone you're resentful at in one column, and the in the column next to them, write what valued thing of yours was threatened, and in another column next to all that write what the resentment is for. Example "I am resentful at my SIL for not helping with the laundry which affected my personal relations and my time. It helps to get it on paper. Then when you're done with all that, pray for them. Pray to God that He will take your resentment away and pray that you can forgive these people like Christ forgave everyone for their sin. Now, AA left out the Christ part though.

Hope this helps!



castrobi -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/5/2008 4:45:57 PM)

Oh by the grace of God an mercy I had to learn to just let go of the anger and hurt because if I didn't then I was getting roots of bitterness into my life and you know who end up in a mess its you (ME). I also went to to the apointed one in the church to get help for the anger they minister prayed and I was able to get to the root of the problem and many times it wasn't the person fault it was some other hidden thing that had happen as what James 5 tell us Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses[e] to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.



nfranick -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/23/2008 10:52:09 PM)

The Lord is able to expose to us who we are so that we can bring it to Him that He may work Himself through us in order to be glorified. This bitter acknowledgement is not easy to digest but how wonderful it is to know that the Lord is working in us. That we are His chosen!

It can sound absurd to be happy with such an acknowledgement but we can still be happy that the Lord wants to impart more of Himself into us. He must rid us of ourselves, our natural man, in order to grow Himself in us, His Spirit!

1 Cor. 4:4
For I am conscious of nothing against myself; but I am not justified in this, but He who examines me is the Lord.

When we count something as a negative and try to change it we think that we are capable of making a worthy exchange. Taking the negative and replacing it with a positive. In reality we as sinners do not own any true positives, only the Lord can make us holy and without blemish. By any material that we use, He will count as ruble. But, when He exposes our natural self to us, then an opportunity arises for us to allow Him to move in us and change us by His life. By our experiences of Him do we transform to what is pleasing to Him.

Also, we should not let Satan use this as another strategy for distraction, keeping us from enjoying the Lord. Satan uses this very type of thing to keep us in our natural man by self-loathing, attempts to clean ourselves and many other ways. We cannot let the enemy have his way with us. We must remember that our Lord has overcome this world and since we are in Him we have this to draw upon.



BrowneyedAL -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/24/2008 3:32:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicole6598

I like to be in control and I don't think that leaving it in God's hands does much to be honest. Because that person can still go about doing the same thing they always do to hurt you and others and they seem to "get away with it". Know what I mean? [;)][8D]


Nicole, this gets to the heart of the issue IMO. Particularly the part that I bolded...but all of this text really. If we are trying to control our own lives then we are not allowing God the control that He needs in order for His will to be done in our lives. Our plan for our lives is flawed, because it comes from a flawed human...but God's will for our life is perfect. He waits with great anticipation for His children to surrender completely to Him so that He is finally able to pour out the blessings that He has reserved specifically for us.

I'm going to paraphrase an illustration I've heard used before and hope that in my effort to condense it a bit that I don't lose the meaning. Many of us go through life fancying ourselves as the director of our own show. If all the actors would just follow our direction and do as we wish for them to do, we believe that life will be perfect. One of the biggest flaw in this illusion is that many of those other actors also fancy themselves the director of the show. In reality, we are all just actors in this show. As long as we continue to fight with the other actors and try to do the directors job the whole show falls apart and is a dismal failure. When we finally stop trying to manipulate the show to our own liking and allow the director to do his job and we do ours as actors under his direction the show comes together beautifully and is a success.

In the above illustration think of yourself (or people in general really) as the actors and God as the director...desperately wanting to do his job and take that immense responsiblity from the actors so they can simply focus on following his directions so that the show will be an acclaimed success. Wanting to be in control is a form of pride, and a very crippling one at that, it's in essence saying "I'm capable of doing God's job as the director of my life better than He is". That's a pretty big declaration, don't you think?

I'm not saying it's easy to let God be the director...it isn't...I tend to want to control things myself. (that tendency nearly killed me both literally and spiritually by the way) Sometimes I have to say 'Here God, take it back' a dozen times in any given day when I realize that I've tried to wrestle control of my life back out of His capable hands...but what's important is that I keep giving it back...that I am learning to recognize when I'm stepping out of my role as the actor and trying to become the director and I'm willing to say "Sorry God, I forgot again...that's Your job"

Ever since I started giving that control back to the director, my show has been running much more smoothly. I've accepted that in my role as actor, it's not my position to direct the other actors...therefore I have no business having expectations of other people. It's amazing how infrequently you are dissappointed or angry with people when you don't have expectations in your mind of their role in the show. I have a peace about life that I can't describe honestly. I find now that when someone says or does something that used to leave me fuming for days because it was rude or inconsiderate that I'm no longer angry...instead I feel badly for them...because I know that their behavior shows that they are still trying to be the director and I know first hand how miserable that is!!

I'm not saying that we should be doormats or let someone abuse us...and I don't think our director would call for that either...but the next time you find yourself upset with someone ask yourself a few questions:
Why did their actions/words upset me?
Was it because I expected something else from them?
If so, were those expectations even reasonable?
If they were reasonable, am I sure they knew what my expectations were?
Were my expectations selfish?
Is there a way to serve God in this situation?
Did my reaction make the situation better or worse?
What, if anything, can I gain by continuing to hold on to this resentment? and what do I lose?

Really all those questions can be summed up into one...'What is my role here?'



nicole6598 -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/25/2008 5:57:02 PM)

Thanks Lisa-I bought a book "When people have wronged you" and it says some of what you have covered. I know that it is in my best interests to move on and forgive the people so I am in the process of doing it :)



BrowneyedAL -> RE: anyone else gone through this? how did you change? (3/26/2008 2:42:18 PM)

Good for you Nicole...I've been praying for you...and will continue. Anger is a very tricky emotion...it can sneak up on us and make us miserable if we aren't vigilant to keep it in check. Good luck!



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