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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/24/2008 3:15:15 PM
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JimboFletch
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Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.
-2 Corinthians 4:16
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/24/2008 4:21:16 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.
-2 Corinthians 4:16
Amen
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/28/2008 8:24:14 AM
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DaveW
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A question to Cow451, Jimbofletch and any others who care to answer:
Where do you find in scripture where demonization stopped? We see deliverance from the demonic thru the gospels and see evidence in Acts where Paul and the other apostles practiced it.
When did it stop and on what basis?
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/28/2008 10:14:29 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
A question to Cow451, Jimbofletch and any others who care to answer:
Where do you find in scripture where demonization stopped? We see deliverance from the demonic thru the gospels and see evidence in Acts where Paul and the other apostles practiced it.
When did it stop and on what basis?
That is an excellent question and I wait on baited breath for the answer.
I have personally ran across many a full blown possession in my ministry over the past 45 years. So based on Scriptures and my experience I say that demonic possession is still around and can be dealt with as instructed in Scripture.
Thanks
RC
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/28/2008 11:20:51 AM
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DaveW
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RC, I purposefully do not use the word "possession" as it indicates ownership. We (even in our fallen state) cannot be "owned" by a demon.
But I have seen some pretty sever cases of demonization.
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/28/2008 12:40:41 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
A question to Cow451, Jimbofletch and any others who care to answer:
Where do you find in scripture where demonization stopped? We see deliverance from the demonic thru the gospels and see evidence in Acts where Paul and the other apostles practiced it.
When did it stop and on what basis?
That is an excellent question and I wait on baited breath for the answer.
I have personally ran across many a full blown possession in my ministry over the past 45 years. So based on Scriptures and my experience I say that demonic possession is still around and can be dealt with as instructed in Scripture.
Thanks
RC
I've seen people that thought they or others were "demon possessed". None were actually so, but were clearly mentally ill. I'd say that superstition and mental illness (or other medical condition) account for those cases. We used to see certain types of "Conversion Reactions" (when someone has a physical symptom caused by a psychiatric problem) that are uncommon today. "Glove anesthesia", "hysterical blindness", etc. are uncommon now because most people know more about the body and how these things are not possible. Conversion reactions remit suddenly and people suffering from them are highly suggestable.
The last book of the Bible was written 1900 years ago. It is silly to thing that everything would have remained static. God had to communicate His message somewhat differently in the first century as the world has changed a bit.
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/28/2008 1:42:35 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
I've seen people that thought they or others were "demon possessed". None were actually so, but were clearly mentally ill. I'd say that superstition and mental illness (or other medical condition) account for those cases. We used to see certain types of "Conversion Reactions" (when someone has a physical symptom caused by a psychiatric problem) that are uncommon today. "Glove anesthesia", "hysterical blindness", etc. are uncommon now because most people know more about the body and how these things are not possible. Conversion reactions remit suddenly and people suffering from them are highly suggestable.
The last book of the Bible was written 1900 years ago. It is silly to thing that everything would have remained static. God had to communicate His message somewhat differently in the first century as the world has changed a bit.
So you are denying the Word of God when it says Christ cast demons out of folks?
Or are you just saying the Jesus was too stupid to know what He was doing?
Thanks
RC+
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/28/2008 1:46:08 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
RC, I purposefully do not use the word "possession" as it indicates ownership. We (even in our fallen state) cannot be "owned" by a demon.
But I have seen some pretty sever cases of demonization.
I'll go along with that, I too have worked with many folks who were controlled by demons without any seeming ability for them to help themselves, but that were delivered from the situation by the instruction in the New Testament.
Thanks
RC
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/28/2008 2:04:26 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
The last book of the Bible was written 1900 years ago. It is silly to thing that everything would have remained static. God had to communicate His message somewhat differently in the first century as the world has changed a bit. I guess it must have been mass hysteria and superstition that yelled at Jesus and stampeded those pigs to their destruction......
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/28/2008 3:05:40 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
I've seen people that thought they or others were "demon possessed". None were actually so, but were clearly mentally ill. I'd say that superstition and mental illness (or other medical condition) account for those cases. We used to see certain types of "Conversion Reactions" (when someone has a physical symptom caused by a psychiatric problem) that are uncommon today. "Glove anesthesia", "hysterical blindness", etc. are uncommon now because most people know more about the body and how these things are not possible. Conversion reactions remit suddenly and people suffering from them are highly suggestable.
The last book of the Bible was written 1900 years ago. It is silly to thing that everything would have remained static. God had to communicate His message somewhat differently in the first century as the world has changed a bit.
So you are denying the Word of God when it says Christ cast demons out of folks?
Or are you just saying the Jesus was too stupid to know what He was doing?
Thanks
RC+
First, the "Word of God" is a collection of books worshipped by fundamentalists. These books have been entrusted to man. Man has yet to perfectly care for anything given him. Notwithstanding, I am saying and you aren't reading that these things are not happening today. They were apparently necessary 1900+ years ago. Why God closed His scriptures 1900 years ago is not known. Neither is why miracles and true faith healing no longer happen (or rarely). So, when have you most recently witnessed someone raised from the dead?
Or, Dave, you feel free to jump in with the times you've seen folks raised from the dead.
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/28/2008 3:15:56 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
First, the "Word of God" is a collection of books worshipped by fundamentalists. These books have been entrusted to man. Man has yet to perfectly care for anything given him. Notwithstanding, I am saying and you aren't reading that these things are not happening today. They were apparently necessary 1900+ years ago. Why God closed His scriptures 1900 years ago is not known. Neither is why miracles and true faith healing no longer happen (or rarely). So, when have you most recently witnessed someone raised from the dead?
Or, Dave, you feel free to jump in with the times you've seen folks raised from the dead.
So you do not believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, that our Scripture was inspired by the very Holy Spirit of God, that God heals, that their are demons, etc.
Wow, I am astounded.
Do you Believe that God saves?
And if you do where did you get the idea since you think that Scripture is bunk.
Thsnks
RC
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/28/2008 5:01:26 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
First, the "Word of God" is a collection of books worshipped by fundamentalists. These books have been entrusted to man. Man has yet to perfectly care for anything given him. Notwithstanding, I am saying and you aren't reading that these things are not happening today. They were apparently necessary 1900+ years ago. Why God closed His scriptures 1900 years ago is not known. Neither is why miracles and true faith healing no longer happen (or rarely). So, when have you most recently witnessed someone raised from the dead?
Or, Dave, you feel free to jump in with the times you've seen folks raised from the dead.
So you do not believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, that our Scripture was inspired by the very Holy Spirit of God, that God heals, that their are demons, etc.
Wow, I am astounded.
Do you Believe that God saves?
And if you do where did you get the idea since you think that Scripture is bunk.
Thsnks
RC
No, I am not a fundamentalist. I don't believe biblical inerrancy. I don't believe the earth is only 6000 years old. I don't believe God is a celestial Las Vegas lounge act. I also don't believe scripture is bunk. Inspired and inerrant are not the same thing. I do believe Jesus saves and that questioning another poster's Christianity is a TOS violation.
I also believe you continue to avoid my questions to you. So, tell me about those people you know that have been raised from the dead.
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/28/2008 7:00:01 PM
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lightshineon
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Cow, what parts of the Bible are still true for today in your opinion? How do you pick and choose? Know something we don't? If so please enlighten us. Seriously, no rudeness here, just curious. Thanks a bunch. PS, ask God to show you if demon activity is real today. He says to ask for wisdom, which he freeely gives. Another thing you could do is say "satan have at it." I do not think you would want to do that though.
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/28/2008 7:15:03 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
No, I am not a fundamentalist. I don't believe biblical inerrancy. I don't believe the earth is only 6000 years old. I don't believe God is a celestial Las Vegas lounge act. I also don't believe scripture is bunk. Inspired and inerrant are not the same thing.
Well we have some common ground. I do not think the earth is only 6000 years old either, because the Scripture does not say it is.
So by not believing all of the New Testameent; how does that work?
You believe the promise of Heaven, but not the part in James 5 where God promises healing? How do you choose one item over the other?
quote:
I do believe Jesus saves and that questioning another poster's Christianity is a TOS violation.
I did not question your salvation only ask that if you did not believe all the Word of God to be true, how do you know, and how did you choose this part to believe, but reject the rest.
I aso think that the mods are well qualified and are not bashful about telling me if I have violated a TOS.
quote:
I also believe you continue to avoid my questions to you. So, tell me about those people you know that have been raised from the dead.
Well I co believe that I told you all there is to tell about it. I gave you the time, location, and a description of the event; if you want to call me a liar, then have at it.
There are many istasnces, probably daily of healings, raising the dead, changing lives, etc. They just are not advertized or magnified because our Lord Jesus, as our example, did those things, and did not run an ad in the Jerusalem Post and say look at me. Christ told us in the unerring Word of God that those things will still take place, and that we would do even greater things than he did.
So thats my answer, now please answer me as to how you decide which part of the New Testament is God's Word and truth and which part you consider to be bull pucky.
Thanks
RC
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/29/2008 11:22:09 AM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Cow, what parts of the Bible are still true for today in your opinion? How do you pick and choose?
The same way you do. You aren't stoning anyone, I presume.
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/29/2008 11:49:52 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
A question to Cow451, Jimbofletch and any others who care to answer:
Where do you find in scripture where demonization stopped? We see deliverance from the demonic thru the gospels and see evidence in Acts where Paul and the other apostles practiced it.
When did it stop and on what basis?
Dave, I sincerely apologize if I gave the idea that I think demonic activity has ceased. In fact, I don't even have a problem with using the word possession, because when a person is indwelt by a demon, it's obvious to me that the person has no control at all if the demon exerts itself.
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/29/2008 1:03:41 PM
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lightshineon
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Well no cow, I am not stoning because I can rightly divide the word of truth bwtwen the old covenent and the new. Did you see Christians stoning people in New Testament? That would have to do with Romans CHP5 vs 1. It is very important to rightly divide the word of truth. There is a difference betwen that, and pick and choosing what parts, we want. One comes from flesh, the other the Holy Spirit. And is backed up by the word of God.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Cow, what parts of the Bible are still true for today in your opinion? How do you pick and choose?
The same way you do. You aren't stoning anyone, I presume.
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 4/29/2008 1:12:35 PM >
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/29/2008 1:40:24 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Well no cow, I am not stoning because I can rightly divide the word of truth bwtwen the old covenent and the new. Did you see Christians stoning people in New Testament? That would have to do with Romans CHP5 vs 1. It is very important to rightly divide the word of truth. There is a difference betwen that, and pick and choosing what parts, we want. One comes from flesh, the other the Holy Spirit. And is backed up by the word of God.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Cow, what parts of the Bible are still true for today in your opinion? How do you pick and choose?
The same way you do. You aren't stoning anyone, I presume.
So we must keep the Sabbath (Exodus 20) but not kill anyone working that day(Exodus 31), right? Jesus worked on the Sabbath and clarified that the Sabbath was for man, not vice versa. That essentially makes the Commandments guidelines, then. An example of "rightly dividing"?
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/29/2008 1:51:28 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
So we must keep the Sabbath (Exodus 20) but not kill anyone working that day(Exodus 31), right? Jesus worked on the Sabbath and clarified that the Sabbath was for man, not vice versa. That essentially makes the Commandments guidelines, then. An example of "rightly dividing"?
Now with the strawman argument to avoid answering the question.
We are talking about Christians correct; you know like followers of the New Tetament. Show me where Christians are supposed to stone someone?
How did you decide to believe John 3:16, but not James 5:14, you must have a formula or else you just make it up as you go along.
Thanks
RC
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/29/2008 2:58:21 PM
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DaveW
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Gentile Christians are exempt from the Law based on the decision of the First Jerusalem council in Acts 15. But this is way off-topic.
The WHOLE bible is true and applicable in some way to someone today and everyday until the return of Our Lord.
On that basis alone one can say that demonism is as real today as we find it described in the pages of the gospels.
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We are now grandparents TWICE!!
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/29/2008 3:36:01 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Gentile Christians are exempt from the Law based on the decision of the First Jerusalem council in Acts 15. But this is way off-topic.
The WHOLE bible is true and applicable in some way to someone today and everyday until the return of Our Lord.
On that basis alone one can say that demonism is as real today as we find it described in the pages of the gospels.
So where is it that we are given authority to drive out demons? In Matthew, Jesus appointed the twelve apostles (and later Matthias was chosen by lots by the remaining eleven to replace Judas) and sent them out to, among other things, cast out demons. That gift, power, whatever seems for the apostles, not just any follower. In fact the Bible cautions, again in the New Testament about those claiming to heal, prophesy and cast out in His name.
The scripture doesn't say that the apostles were replaced. Again, I don't see it. This gift wasn't passed along. The only inference might be the "discerning of spirits". If Paul meant casting out, he would've said so, IOW. So, the logical question is why casting out was no longer needed?
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/29/2008 3:42:49 PM
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lightshineon
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Dave disagree respectfully, I agree some is applicable, but not all, it will tell us which ones in the NT. We do not stone other believers. Cow you think there are no demons anymore? Really, where did they go?
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Gentile Christians are exempt from the Law based on the decision of the First Jerusalem council in Acts 15. But this is way off-topic.
The WHOLE bible is true and applicable in some way to someone today and everyday until the return of Our Lord.
On that basis alone one can say that demonism is as real today as we find it described in the pages of the gospels.
So where is it that we are given authority to drive out demons? In Matthew, Jesus appointed the twelve apostles (and later Matthias was chosen by lots by the remaining eleven to replace Judas) and sent them out to, among other things, cast out demons. That gift, power, whatever seems for the apostles, not just any follower. In fact the Bible cautions, again in the New Testament about those claiming to heal, prophesy and cast out in His name.
The scripture doesn't say that the apostles were replaced. Again, I don't see it. This gift wasn't passed along. The only inference might be the "discerning of spirits". If Paul meant casting out, he would've said so, IOW. So, the logical question is why casting out was no longer needed?
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/29/2008 4:05:28 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Dave disagree respectfully, I agree some is applicable, but not all, it will tell us which ones in the NT. We do not stone other believers. Cow you think there are no demons anymore? Really, where did they go?
You tell me. I'm simply pointing out where the logic of demon possession and casting out goes.
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/29/2008 4:10:59 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
...In fact the Bible cautions, again in the New Testament about those claiming to ....cast out in His name...
In context, which is a really good thing to do, you are a referring to a group of UNBELIEVERS who thought they could perform some kind of hoodoo using Jesus name.
I'm a believer. That puts me into a whole other group, i.e. part of The Family.
And nowhere can you find where demons have left the planet just yet...
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RE: A Case of Demonic Possession - 4/29/2008 4:19:00 PM
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