RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (Full Version)

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cow451 -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 4:29:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451
...In fact the Bible cautions, again in the New Testament about those claiming to ....cast out in His name...

In context, which is a really good thing to do, you are a referring to a group of UNBELIEVERS who thought they could perform some kind of hoodoo using Jesus name.

I'm a believer. That puts me into a whole other group, i.e. part of The Family.

And nowhere can you find where demons have left the planet just yet...

Then where is your Biblical authority to cast out demons?



Qtman -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 4:50:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451
...In fact the Bible cautions, again in the New Testament about those claiming to ....cast out in His name...

In context, which is a really good thing to do, you are a referring to a group of UNBELIEVERS who thought they could perform some kind of hoodoo using Jesus name.

I'm a believer. That puts me into a whole other group, i.e. part of The Family.

And nowhere can you find where demons have left the planet just yet...

Then where is your Biblical authority to cast out demons?

The Biblical Authority has been cited many times and you refuse to accept it. But I will give the verses again. Matthew 10: v7-9 and Mark 16: v16-18 are two.



Qtman -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 4:53:34 PM)

BTW Cow I always find your siggy's amusing. You seem to have a thing for old TV shows.



cow451 -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 5:02:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Qtman

BTW Cow I always find your siggy's amusing. You seem to have a thing for old TV shows.

Thanks. Shows our age.[:D]



cow451 -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 5:04:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Qtman

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451
...In fact the Bible cautions, again in the New Testament about those claiming to ....cast out in His name...

In context, which is a really good thing to do, you are a referring to a group of UNBELIEVERS who thought they could perform some kind of hoodoo using Jesus name.

I'm a believer. That puts me into a whole other group, i.e. part of The Family.

And nowhere can you find where demons have left the planet just yet...

Then where is your Biblical authority to cast out demons?

The Biblical Authority has been cited many times and you refuse to accept it. But I will give the verses again. Matthew 10: v7-9 and Mark 16: v16-18 are two.

The question is not where the Apostles got their authority, but where you (or anyone else alive today) got the authority.



JimboFletch -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 5:12:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451
...In fact the Bible cautions, again in the New Testament about those claiming to ....cast out in His name...

In context, which is a really good thing to do, you are a referring to a group of UNBELIEVERS who thought they could perform some kind of hoodoo using Jesus name.

I'm a believer. That puts me into a whole other group, i.e. part of The Family.

And nowhere can you find where demons have left the planet just yet...

Then where is your Biblical authority to cast out demons?

If you know of someone with one - or think you do - then bring 'em on by and I'll give you a practical demonstration.

Seriously, are you of the opinion that Jesus ascended and left us defenseless against Satan and his hordes after the last Apostle died?



Qtman -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 5:21:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: Qtman

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451
...In fact the Bible cautions, again in the New Testament about those claiming to ....cast out in His name...

In context, which is a really good thing to do, you are a referring to a group of UNBELIEVERS who thought they could perform some kind of hoodoo using Jesus name.

I'm a believer. That puts me into a whole other group, i.e. part of The Family.

And nowhere can you find where demons have left the planet just yet...

Then where is your Biblical authority to cast out demons?

The Biblical Authority has been cited many times and you refuse to accept it. But I will give the verses again. Matthew 10: v7-9 and Mark 16: v16-18 are two.

The question is not where the Apostles got their authority, but where you (or anyone else alive today) got the authority.


I can see where the verse in Matthew might be construed to mean the apostles although I do not believe it was. The verse in Mark is speaking to all that believe and are baptised.



JimboFletch -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 5:29:11 PM)

If you think Jesus only gave authority to His Apostles, an eye-opener might be found in John 17 in Christ's "High Priestly Prayer" just before he went to the cross. Specifically, verse 20:

I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word



cow451 -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 6:43:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

If you think Jesus only gave authority to His Apostles, an eye-opener might be found in John 17 in Christ's "High Priestly Prayer" just before he went to the cross. Specifically, verse 20:

I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word


He asked for them protection from the "evil one", but the authority to cast out is implied at best.



cow451 -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 6:45:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

Seriously, are you of the opinion that Jesus ascended and left us defenseless against Satan and his hordes after the last Apostle died?


I just point out that it is logical that the nature of spiritual warfare changed, otherwise it would be more clear as it was for the disciples/Apostles.



lightshineon -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 6:52:48 PM)

Just ask the Lord to show you cow, that will prove it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

Seriously, are you of the opinion that Jesus ascended and left us defenseless against Satan and his hordes after the last Apostle died?


I just point out that it is logical that the nature of spiritual warfare changed, otherwise it would be more clear as it was for the disciples/Apostles.



cow451 -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 7:13:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Just ask the Lord to show you cow, that will prove it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

Seriously, are you of the opinion that Jesus ascended and left us defenseless against Satan and his hordes after the last Apostle died?


I just point out that it is logical that the nature of spiritual warfare changed, otherwise it would be more clear as it was for the disciples/Apostles.


Hate to disappoint you, but my beliefs didn't just pop up. I've been a Christian for 37 years and have spent plenty of time studying and praying. You might call me a recovering Southern Baptist. [:)]If you don't like where the Lord has taken me, you may speak with Him about His errors.



lightshineon -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 8:02:09 PM)

i like you cow, I said ask the Lord to show you.
quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Just ask the Lord to show you cow, that will prove it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

Seriously, are you of the opinion that Jesus ascended and left us defenseless against Satan and his hordes after the last Apostle died?


I just point out that it is logical that the nature of spiritual warfare changed, otherwise it would be more clear as it was for the disciples/Apostles.


Hate to disappoint you, but my beliefs didn't just pop up. I've been a Christian for 37 years and have spent plenty of time studying and praying. You might call me a recovering Southern Baptist. [:)]If you don't like where the Lord has taken me, you may speak with Him about His errors.



earthless -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 8:20:12 PM)

Wait... allow me to jump in.. what exactly is cow saying?



cow451 -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/29/2008 10:14:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Wait... allow me to jump in.. what exactly is cow saying?


My take on the "gift" of being able to cast out demons was that it was given to the Apostles by Jesus. I don't read scripture as stating the Apostles or Christ passed it on to another generation. Therefore, God being logical, would not have ended that gift (casting out demons) for no reason nor would he have left us without defense against evil. The idea that demon possession still exists in the same manner as 2000 years ago is based on church tradition, inference and assumption rather than clear scripture, IMHO.

So my fellow posters are worried I am headed for Sheol in a handbasket.[sm=fireanger.gif]



lightshineon -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/30/2008 12:12:59 AM)

d0 not think your going to hell.
quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Wait... allow me to jump in.. what exactly is cow saying?


My take on the "gift" of being able to cast out demons was that it was given to the Apostles by Jesus. I don't read scripture as stating the Apostles or Christ passed it on to another generation. Therefore, God being logical, would not have ended that gift (casting out demons) for no reason nor would he have left us without defense against evil. The idea that demon possession still exists in the same manner as 2000 years ago is based on church tradition, inference and assumption rather than clear scripture, IMHO.

So my fellow posters are worried I am headed for Sheol in a handbasket.[sm=fireanger.gif]



DaveW -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/30/2008 8:06:30 AM)

quote:

The question is not where the Apostles got their authority, but where you (or anyone else alive today) got the authority.

Mark 16.17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

Please notice this is the FIRST sign listed for all believers.



JimboFletch -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/30/2008 8:10:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Wait... allow me to jump in.. what exactly is cow saying?


My take on the "gift" of being able to cast out demons was that it was given to the Apostles by Jesus. I don't read scripture as stating the Apostles or Christ passed it on to another generation. Therefore, God being logical, would not have ended that gift (casting out demons) for no reason nor would he have left us without defense against evil. The idea that demon possession still exists in the same manner as 2000 years ago is based on church tradition, inference and assumption rather than clear scripture, IMHO.

So my fellow posters are worried I am headed for Sheol in a handbasket.[sm=fireanger.gif]

Cow, show where demon possession ever changed in scripture. You cannot. Paul, who was not one of the original 12, cast out demons.

Just because you personally haven't experienced/seen something doesn't mean it isn't real - that's akin to a 3 year-old thinking he's invisible because his eyes are closed and covered by his hands.

I'm somewhat amused that you are of the opinion that God is logical if, by that, you think it's on par with human logic. That's sort of like an ant, seeing the industry of man, assuming that man is just a bug, two-legged ant in his motivation, reasoning, and purpose.



JimboFletch -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/30/2008 8:14:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

Hate to disappoint you, but my beliefs didn't just pop up. I've been a Christian for 37 years and have spent plenty of time studying and praying. You might call me a recovering Southern Baptist. [:)]If you don't like where the Lord has taken me, you may speak with Him about His errors.

I've been a believer for 41 years and have been both Arminian and Calvinistic in my theological leanings from plenty of prayer and studying of scripture. Perhaps, then, you should listen to my logically superior theology.
[:D]



earthless -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/30/2008 8:18:23 AM)

Many here feel I am as theologically conservative as they come.. but I will say this - the demonic world is REAL and active. I have personally been involved in situations where a person is outwardly and without restraint showing clear signs of being control/inhabited by evil spirits.

Due to a lack of time I cannot go into specific detail about it.



rcjames -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/30/2008 10:29:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451
I just point out that it is logical that the nature of spiritual warfare changed, otherwise it would be more clear as it was for the disciples/Apostles.


While we are discussing the believer's authority to cast out demons, let's not forget the verse that Qtman pointed out;

(Mar 16:15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

(Mar 16:16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

(Mar 16:17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Thanks
RC

edited for spelling



DaveW -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/30/2008 12:58:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

My take on the "gift" of being able to cast out demons was that it was given to the Apostles by Jesus. I don't read scripture as stating the Apostles or Christ passed it on to another generation. Therefore, God being logical, would not have ended that gift (casting out demons) for no reason nor would he have left us without defense against evil. The idea that demon possession still exists in the same manner as 2000 years ago is based on church tradition, inference and assumption rather than clear scripture, IMHO.
Well that is just it, isn't it? Logic.

Except God's logic is a long ways from our own. Look thru the OT and find out what God's logic is like. It is relational instead of abstract. (indeed one is hard pressed to find abstractions anywhere in the bible) It is sometimes circular. It can easily accept several things as true at the same time that we find mutually exclusive.



Memaw. -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/30/2008 1:57:03 PM)

I have been trying to avoid this thread, but the temptation is overwhelming.[:)]

First of all, let me state that I do believe demons are real and I do believe we have the authority through the name and the blood of Jesus to cast them out.

But I have some questions.

According to Jude 1:6 (KJV)
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

This is speaking of fallen angels (demons) right?
How then can they be locked up yet be running free?

Could it be that there is only one "demon" and that is satan himself?

I'm just thinking here, and hopefully I can make my thoughts clear.

OK, there is only one Holy Spirit that ministers to ALL of those who are saved, can it be possible that the "spirit" of satan is also free reigning and can be at all places as well?

I am not attempting to blaspheme the Holy Spirit in any way, shape or form and God forgive me if that's the way my words are making this to appear, but I really am interested to know if this is possible.



rcjames -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/30/2008 2:13:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Memaw.

I have been trying to avoid this thread, but the temptation is overwhelming.[:)]

First of all, let me state that I do believe demons are real and I do believe we have the authority through the name and the blood of Jesus to cast them out.

But I have some questions.

According to Jude 1:6 (KJV)
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

This is speaking of fallen angels (demons) right?
How then can they be locked up yet be running free?

Could it be that there is only one "demon" and that is satan himself?

I'm just thinking here, and hopefully I can make my thoughts clear.

OK, there is only one Holy Spirit that ministers to ALL of those who are saved, can it be possible that the "spirit" of satan is also free reigning and can be at all places as well?

I am not attempting to blaspheme the Holy Spirit in any way, shape or form and God forgive me if that's the way my words are making this to appear, but I really am interested to know if this is possible.


Memaw,

The Scripture specifically teaches that angels travel from place to place, etc. and that Satan was an Angel and now is a fallen angel; then I would reject the notion that he is omnipresent.

Now I do believe that his influence (evil) is everywhere, because Scripture speaks to powers, dominions, etc, a speaks to satan as the prince of this world.

Thsnks
RC



JimboFletch -> RE: A Case of Demonic Possession (4/30/2008 2:14:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Memaw.
Could it be that there is only one "demon" and that is satan himself?

Whatever the answer, that's not possible because Satan is not a god, he can only be in one place at a time yet demonic activity is far-flung. Also, remember the one possessed by many demons and they answered their name was "Legion." It was a herd of pigs that ran to their death, not just one.



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