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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/21/2008 2:43:22 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1749
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quote:
ORIGINAL: torath
"There is no constitutional right to be protected by the state (or Federal) against being murdered by criminals or madmen. It is monstrous if the state fails to protect its residents against such predators but it does not violate the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, or, we suppose, any other provision of the Constitution. The Constitution is a charter of negative liberties: it tells the state (gov't) to let people alone; it does not require the federal government or the state to provide services, even so elementary a service as maintaining law and order"
(Bowers v. DeVito, U.S. Court of Appeals, Seventh Circuit, 686F.2d 616 [1982]).
It is sad the number of suicides in the US, but the stats I could find showed only about 13,000 deaths would actually be stopped if you could make all guns disappear. That is about .0004% of the population. And a reasonable portion of those deaths would logically be criminals killed by police or armed citizens. I found a few sites claiming to have "stats" on that but with no sources cited I cannot rightly use them. I find any gun related death a terrifying thing. Guns are too easy to use. They turn a coward into a tough guy, but only if the person he is facing is unarmed.
I would still argue gun banning is not a safe nor reasonable thing, as that would ensure only criminals are armed. Sure police would have guns, but what is the response time for the average police department? According to the department of Justice at http://ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/cvus/response_time_to_victim584.htm
fewer that 30% of violent crimes had a 5 min. response, 30% at 6-10 min. and over 30% with 10 min. to one hour.
Good thieves can a car in about 11 min. Let alone kick down your door, shoot you and run away.
Gun education and proper handling is that answer.
http://www.newcoalition.org/Article.cfm?artId=7571 is a very non-biased article I found on murder rates in the world and the effectiveness of gun control laws.
Every innocent death is a terrible thing. As much as I love my guns, I do wish we could make all guns everywhere go away, but unless that happens only an armed, educated populus willing to defend themselves from oppression either individual or imposed by the government will curb crime and innocent death.
Thanks for the great information. You have given me the desire to research this issue more fully from both sides and have given me some great tools to do that.
I agree that gun education is important. Do all states require a new owner take a gun course? Or does that vary by state?
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Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/21/2008 3:56:08 PM
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SteveSund
Posts: 746
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From: Michigan
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Many states have some kind of training requirement for people to get a permit for concealed carry, but I am not aware of any state that requires a person buying a gun to have any kind of safety training. That being said, gun owners, as a group (IMO), tend to be one of the safest groups I have ever been around. Attend some kind of organized shooting event and you will see.
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/21/2008 4:31:00 PM
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Marcus.
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Someone had commented on the idea that the founders didn't intend the Second Amendment to be a safeguard against a tyrannical government. Here are some quotes from the men themselves and even from other sources of the day.
"[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights and those of their fellow citizens." -- The Federalist, No. 29 - Alexander Hamilton
"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789 - Elbridge Gerry
"Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms under our own possesion and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" - Patrick Henry
"No free government was ever founded or ever preserved its liberty, without uniting the characters of the citizen and soldier in those destined for the defense of the state.... Such are a well regulated militia, composed of the freeholders, citizen and husbandman, who take up arms to preserve their property, as individuals, and their rights as freemen." - State Gazette (Charleston), September 8, 1788
"While the people have property, arms in their hands, and only a spark of noble spirit, the most corrupt Congress must be mad to form any project of tyranny." - Rev. Nicholas Collin, Fayetteville Gazette (N.C.), October 12, 1789
"The powers of the sword, say the minority of Pennsylvania, is in the hands of Congress. My friends and countrymen, it is not so, for the powers of the sward are in the hands of the yeomanry of America from sixteen to sixty. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress have no right to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American.... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or the state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." - Pennsylvania Gazette, February 20, 1788
"Another source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any force that axists among the people, or which they can command; for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive." - Noah Webster An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, Philadelphia, 1787
"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peacable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent teh people from petitioning, in a peacable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possesions." - Samuel Adams, Debates of the Massachusetts Convention of 1788
"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American . . . . The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." -- The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788
"As the military forces which must occasionally be raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article (of amendment) in their right to keep and bear their private arms." -- Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789
"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peacable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent teh people from petitioning, in a peacable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possesions." - Samuel Adams, Debates of the Massachusetts Convention of 1788
"A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves . . . and include all men capable of bearing arms. . . To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms... The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle. ... whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them..." - Richard H. Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer 53, 1788
"... of the liberty of conscience in matters of religious faith, of speech and of the press; of the trail by jury of the vicinage in civil and criminal cases; of the benefit of the writ of habeas corpus; of the right to keep and bear arms.... If these rights are well defined, and secured against encroachment, it is impossible that government should ever degenerate into tyranny." - James Monroe
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson, in letter to William S. Smith, 1787
"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference. When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." - GEORGE WASHINGTON (First President - Address to 1st session of Congress)
"Arms in the hands of citizens (may) be used at individual discretion...in private self-defense..." 1788 (A Defense of the Constitution of the Government of the USA, p.471) - JOHN ADAMS
"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." (Elliot, 3:645-6) ZACHARIA JOHNSON (delegate to Virginia Ratifying Convention)
< Message edited by Marcus. -- 3/21/2008 4:42:49 PM >
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/21/2008 4:46:57 PM
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rnershigh
Posts: 1728
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: DC metro area
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Training is required to get a concealed carry permit here in Virginia.
Having a gun ("open carry") on your person in public is legal, you don't need a permit for that here. A few years ago in Reston VA a few men all were carrying at a local restaurant. An employee called the police because they saw the guns. Another incident, a college student at a local Starbucks in Tyson's Corner in McLean VA had the police called on him because the employee didn't know it's legal to carry, and when the cop came he charged him with a misdemeanor, confiscated the gun, but later let the person go as it was found the person did nothing wrong except legally carrying a registered gun.
Most citizens don't realize their rights and that's why I think got people nervous and calling the police, they didn't realize you can carry a gun. 
Both incidents occurred here in northern va. People take their right to bear arms seriously here. This occurred sometime in 2004 (both incidents were not related, it was coincidence, but it shows people still carry in the open here in suburban/urban northern VA). Interestingly, in a washington post article reporting these incidents quoted a fairfax county police officer stating that the crime rate in the area was at the lowest in 20 years and that the homicide rate was the lowest among the 30 largest jurisdictions in the country that year. Fairfax county includes Alexandria, Arlington, Springfield, and various other towns/cities and it surpassed the 1 million population mark a couple years ago but it's crime rate is still lower compared to neighboring DC.
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O Grave! where is thy Victory?
O Death! where is thy Sting?
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/21/2008 5:34:32 PM
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TomTurn
Posts: 758
Joined: 3/13/2008
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Will try and get back to this thread in a couple of days and mapachito13 will address your questions then. Right now I need to hold off. A co-worker of mine was murdered Tuesday night and I am a bit angry about it right now and have been avoiding this thread. A man came out of the darkness, strangled and then stabbed this 70 year old woman as she was getting out of her car to visit her husband in his care facility. Her funeral is tomorrow.
To help the topic of the thread I will leave you with the suggestion you read up on DC's first gun ban in 1801 and how it played into to the disastrous battle of Blandensburg in 1814. Congress had stepped in months before the battle and forced DC to allow the citizens to be armed but by the time the battle took place, it was too late. The citizens did not have the time to get well armed and had become weak through apathy.
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When seconds count the police can be there in minutes
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/22/2008 12:43:10 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1749
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
Will try and get back to this thread in a couple of days and mapachito13 will address your questions then. Right now I need to hold off. A co-worker of mine was murdered Tuesday night and I am a bit angry about it right now and have been avoiding this thread. A man came out of the darkness, strangled and then stabbed this 70 year old woman as she was getting out of her car to visit her husband in his care facility. Her funeral is tomorrow.
To help the topic of the thread I will leave you with the suggestion you read up on DC's first gun ban in 1801 and how it played into to the disastrous battle of Blandensburg in 1814. Congress had stepped in months before the battle and forced DC to allow the citizens to be armed but by the time the battle took place, it was too late. The citizens did not have the time to get well armed and had become weak through apathy.
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When seconds count the police can be there in minutes
I'll send some prayers your way and I am sorry for this tragic loss of an innocent life!
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Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/22/2008 12:44:58 AM
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mapachito13
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One thing that impresses me is the historical knowledge on this board. Being a history nut I enjoy the historical research immensely!!
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/22/2008 6:50:05 PM
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torath
Posts: 11
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It is amazing researching this topic the amount of quotes that are either used wrong or do not exhist at all, and on both sides.
I have heard many times, seen signs or bumper stickers saying:
"This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" --Adolph Hitler, 1935
Upon actual research, I found out that in fact, he never said that, it is totally made up!
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/22/2008 7:22:36 PM
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TomTurn
Posts: 758
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quote:
Upon actual research, I found out that in fact, he never said that, it is totally made up!
You are correct and we should always check many things sent to us or what we read, but luckily for us we know what our founders meant with the 2nd amendment because they wrote it down.
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When seconds count the police can be there in minutes
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/23/2008 4:46:28 PM
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TomTurn
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mapachito13, Thaks for your prayers. As to my post a few days ago. It was not all about you but I was a little miffed that you were taking the conversation of the DC gun ban into a direction of should Christians have firearms. I see those as two different conversations and one I would gladly join you in, for as I pointed out, it appears to have been a non-issue, eat the meat, do not eat the meat, with God
Anyway to address one question. Do I think the government is tryannical? Not on a whole but at times they are.
Ask the people in the video I linked to if they think things were getting a little tyrannical?
Do you think Randy Weaver thought it was getting a little tyrannical after his son was shot in the back and his wife shot in the head while standing at the door holding her baby? Do you think he thought it was tyrannical the next day as the government taunted with calls to his dead wife asking what she had for breakfast?
Do you think the Branch Davidians thought it was getting a bit tyrannical as the tanks rolled into their Church?
A government agent acting outside the law but behind their badge can make you just as dead as a criminal breaking into your house.
"They broke a whole bunch of serious laws......This became a personal vendetta with the government when I laughed in the face of the agent who offered to drop my charges if I became an informant. They admitted in court that crime is about as serious as a traffic violation." - Randy Weaver
"You can't kill somebody just because you wear badges, then cover those homicides by prosecuting the innocent." - Gerry Spence
"Who do you turn to or call when the criminal breaking down your door is the government? - TomTurn
A comment on Randy Weaver. He might have been kind of crazy to some but kind of crazy is not against the law. There is no question in my mind and the minds of many that the governments intention was to kill every one on that mountain who could talk. So the government started killing them one by one. Why didn't they just storm the place and get it over with? Becasue the citizens they sought to frame were armed. It is sad that his son and wife died but he is alive and his two daughters are alive (and Kevin Harris) because of their 2nd amendment right.
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/24/2008 10:07:53 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1749
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
mapachito13, Thaks for your prayers. As to my post a few days ago. It was not all about you but I was a little miffed that you were taking the conversation of the DC gun ban into a direction of should Christians have firearms. I see those as two different conversations and one I would gladly join you in, for as I pointed out, it appears to have been a non-issue, eat the meat, do not eat the meat, with God
Anyway to address one question. Do I think the government is tryannical? Not on a whole but at times they are.
Ask the people in the video I linked to if they think things were getting a little tyrannical?
Do you think Randy Weaver thought it was getting a little tyrannical after his son was shot in the back and his wife shot in the head while standing at the door holding her baby? Do you think he thought it was tyrannical the next day as the government taunted with calls to his dead wife asking what she had for breakfast?
Do you think the Branch Davidians thought it was getting a bit tyrannical as the tanks rolled into their Church?
A government agent acting outside the law but behind their badge can make you just as dead as a criminal breaking into your house.
"They broke a whole bunch of serious laws......This became a personal vendetta with the government when I laughed in the face of the agent who offered to drop my charges if I became an informant. They admitted in court that crime is about as serious as a traffic violation." - Randy Weaver
"You can't kill somebody just because you wear badges, then cover those homicides by prosecuting the innocent." - Gerry Spence
"Who do you turn to or call when the criminal breaking down your door is the government? - TomTurn
A comment on Randy Weaver. He might have been kind of crazy to some but kind of crazy is not against the law. There is no question in my mind and the minds of many that the governments intention was to kill every one on that mountain who could talk. So the government started killing them one by one. Why didn't they just storm the place and get it over with? Becasue the citizens they sought to frame were armed. It is sad that his son and wife died but he is alive and his two daughters are alive (and Kevin Harris) because of their 2nd amendment right.
TomTurn, I apologize for also using maybe too much sarcasm and hyperbole in my original posts so please forgive me. I don't want totally strict gun control but I do want some gun control. Registering guns helps law enforcement track down many of those used in crimes. I think that gun safety education is a must for any new gun owner.
Unfortunately, I have only experienced the bad of gun ownership, crime, murder and suicide. And one accidental killing of my friend's son, which I must admit, affected me very much. I recognize from the comments of people on this board that there are some very well educated and safe gun owners out there. I wish all of them could be.
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/24/2008 1:55:46 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5026
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
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I sometimes wonder if these people (anti-gun) are really this idiotic. Do they not realize that the bulk of guns used in violent crimes are not legit?
That criminals will always have access to guns and them knowing the average Joe Citizen cannot have one only ups the ante for them to conduct their criminal activities in peace?
What better for a punk criminal to know that the person they are about to mug or the house they are about to break into are most likely gun free?
Every time I see the family and friends of some other teenager that has been shot.... I have to stop and wonder if they:
a) realize that kid was most likely a gang member or emulated them enough to be confused for one?
b) their family structure (lack thereof) and social structure/values foster these kind of incidents? That they are most likely responsible for their kids being criminals and up to no good.
Sigh.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/24/2008 3:16:31 PM
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torath
Posts: 11
Joined: 2/20/2008
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Earthless,
I appreciate the effort, but keep it friendly. Lets not call people names. mapachito13 is refering to personnel stories about legal gun ownership gone bad. It of course gave him a sour taste for guns, as discussed above, but tomturn and I did a bit of research, whcih you will find above, that gave him a few things to think about. Please keep it friendly and try to have some information for any claims you make, while I agree with what you said, you need official stats or sources to make a claim legit. I desperatly want people to understand, even in modern day America why protection of the second amendment is critical to our freedom, but that can only be done with intellegent discourse, not name calling and opinions.
Thanks,
Wolf
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/24/2008 3:19:01 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1749
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Every time I see the family and friends of some other teenager that has been shot.... I have to stop and wonder if they:
a) realize that kid was most likely a gang member or emulated them enough to be confused for one?
b) their family structure (lack thereof) and social structure/values foster these kind of incidents? That they are most likely responsible for their kids being criminals and up to no good.
Sigh.
If you have a monitored alarm system they stay away too! And I don't have to worry about any fatal or life-changing accidents. Don't belittle people who don't want a gun in their house. You don't have to exercise the 2nd Amendment to be intelligent.
The second part of your post shows that you have never lived in an area with high gang activity and is based in ignorance. Most people shot by these gang bangers are innocent people. People who live in these areas wish they had better aim and only hit their intended target. (There'd be less of them.) Also, not everyone who lives in poor areas are gang bangers and poor people have family values too! So don't speak in stereotypes about people who most often have to live in these areas because that is all they can afford!
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/24/2008 3:19:51 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5026
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
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Wolf,
Sorry for the confusion.. I was not referring to anyone on this board with my remarks. I was speaking about the legislators, mayors, politicians, etc.. that love to push these kind of laws and reforms around.
As for data to back up my claim?
It's two fold:
1) I am a cop in the second largest city in the U.S. and I live in the inner-city. Was born and raised in the inner-city.
2) I believe the website for a quick visual glance that shows the cities with the strictest gun control laws having the most violent armed crimes can be found at http://www.gunmap.org/
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/24/2008 4:44:57 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1749
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Wolf,
Sorry for the confusion.. I was not referring to anyone on this board with my remarks. I was speaking about the legislators, mayors, politicians, etc.. that love to push these kind of laws and reforms around.
As for data to back up my claim?
It's two fold:
1) I am a cop in the second largest city in the U.S. and I live in the inner-city. Was born and raised in the inner-city.
2) I believe the website for a quick visual glance that shows the cities with the strictest gun control laws having the most violent armed crimes can be found at http://www.gunmap.org/
Wow! You are the first peace officer that I have found who works and lives in the inner city that thinks everyone should have guns! Most police I knew from the cheif on down were pretty much against having guns in general circulation among the populace.
But I'm game! Let's rescind all gun control in the inner city and I'll pray doubly hard for the officers when those legal guns hit the streets! But then again crime will go down and we won't need as many police in the inner city, freeing up much needed funds for education! 
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/24/2008 7:33:34 PM
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cog41
Posts: 562
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: tejas
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I believe the Court will rule in favor of the people.
And I don't mean a state militia or the natl. gaurd.
The people,those folks who make up the citizenry. The ones who pay the bills,taxes, who at night look out the window for their teenage drivers,lock their doors,leave a light on,are still awake when their "baby" slips in under curfew. Next morning they face the day to do it all again,thinking only of paying their way and providing for their family. Certainly they have a 2nd amendment right to defend their own against enemies foreign and domestic.
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/24/2008 8:10:50 PM
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rnershigh
Posts: 1728
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: DC metro area
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Wolf,
Sorry for the confusion.. I was not referring to anyone on this board with my remarks. I was speaking about the legislators, mayors, politicians, etc.. that love to push these kind of laws and reforms around.
As for data to back up my claim?
It's two fold:
1) I am a cop in the second largest city in the U.S. and I live in the inner-city. Was born and raised in the inner-city.
2) I believe the website for a quick visual glance that shows the cities with the strictest gun control laws having the most violent armed crimes can be found at http://www.gunmap.org/
I took a look at that map and it's interesting to note that both Chicago and DC that both restrict handgun ownership by citizens also lead the nation in murder rates. I was not surprised that DC's murder rate is a staggering 750% higher than VA. Not surprised by that statistic at all. I live right outside DC, probably 20 miles, and when I turn on the local news for the night most of crime headlines reads "DC". I'm not saying that the suburbs of VA don't have our fair share of crime, but it's just not as bad as DC, definitely not and you'd think it be worse than it is given how urban it's become and the huge population (larger by far than the District) in fairfax county alone.
Anyways, it's not just crime that DC has a problems with. That city is pretty messed up, it's always one thing or another about DC's problems making the news.
_____________________________
O Grave! where is thy Victory?
O Death! where is thy Sting?
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/24/2008 11:37:41 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 647
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Someone had commented on the idea that the founders didn't intend the Second Amendment to be a safeguard against a tyrannical government. Here are some quotes from the men themselves and even from other sources of the day.
Marcus, quote-mining the personal reflections of various Founders belies two facts:
1. One could quote-mine other comments from other Founding Fathers at that same time period to make the exact opposite point.
2. The Supreme Court interprets the Constitution, which is a concensus of "We the People," not "We certain individuals."
The Second Amendment neither prohibits nor guarantees the right to private gun collections by individuals. That's the trouble: it isn't explicit enough. Also, it's grammatical construct is rather poor, i.e. it is a run-on sentence incorrectly spliced by commas. However, this holds true of many of the other amendments as well, so I'm not sure that it can be interpreted based on its grammatical syntax.
In my opinion, there should not be a reinterpretation of the way it has been ruled on up to this point. It is prima facia a guarantee to states' rights for a state's militia. It does not prohibit private gun ownership; therefore, it should be left well enough alone.
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RE: D.C.'s Gun Ban Gets Day in Court - 3/25/2008 12:16:05 AM
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