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BarryBum -> Am I wrong in making this decision (3/16/2008 9:28:27 PM)

Ok, heres the background. My church is a small church of about 80-90 people on an average Sunday morning. I am the mens director, I plan and coordinate approximately 90% of the large events that our church does. We have an annual event that is coming up in May. This particular event that I am talking about is a community wide car show, it normally brings in several hundred people onto the church grounds for a single day. We have a live Christian band, food, trophies for the cars, door prizes and provide the place for people to gather together and hopefully learn about Gods love and that his love is just not on Sunday morning.
The problem comes in with lack of commitment from other men. Like I said earlier, this event is supposed to be sponsored by the men, but it is mostly sponsored by me. I work from the end of January until early May. Everyday I have off is spent running errands, meeting with people, promoting the show and everything else that it takes to pull off an event of this size. I can't get anyone to help and I have decided that I am not doing it all this year. I told the men at our meeting in January that if they wanted to do this, I'd be happy to head this up, but I need help doing all the running. As of today only 2 people out of the 15-18 men have even showed an interest. At our meeting last week, I overheard 2 guys talking......they said "I don't have time for this, I'll help on show day, but thats it".......what makes them think I have more time than they do??? Is it wrong for me to feel this way? I am just burnt out doing it all, and everyone just showing up and thinking they are really doing something by just showing up for a few hours.....how bout the 3 previous months running every single day, making phone calls, running promo flyers to merchants, collecting door prizes, purchasing food, planning trophies, helping design t shirts and the countless other things that must be done. Like I said, if I had the help, I wouldn't mind, but I am not doing it all by myself......not this year.



lightshineon -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/16/2008 9:35:06 PM)

No you are not wrong. I understand, in my church many pew sitters. I do admire how you are one of the few Laborers for the Lord. I have felt this way too. Maybe praying for help, instead of being forceful would work better. I think anyway, I am female, so maybe men deal with each other different. I will pray with you about this.



krazyxsinner -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/16/2008 10:16:38 PM)

I would cancel and then watch them complain that it was cancelled. Yuo might want to ask to do a sermon one day and base it on the story "the ant and the grasshopper."



armydude -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/16/2008 11:44:02 PM)

Burnout is a sad reality that can be avoided. I would say you did the right thing.



timf -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/17/2008 9:01:49 AM)

I can't get anyone to help and I have decided that I am not doing it all this year.

As a Christian you will find that you are often faced with choices of undertaking something by the power of the Holy Spirit and undertaking something by the power of the flesh. The book of Galatians talks extensively about the problems of doing things in the flesh. One of the big "red flags" regarding this mode of operation is the feeling of frustration.

It is sad that many churches have become poor copies of worldly organizational systems that focus on events like car shows instead of helping their members grow into the image of Christ.

It may be that the Lord has allowed the full frustration of trying to do this with no help as a means to show you that He would rather have you follow Him.



AlwaysR8chel -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/17/2008 4:19:12 PM)

.
.
.
.
........ delegation is a wonderful word.

Often, people just need a personal phone call... something that goes like:

    "Hey Larry, I'm running short on time, do you think you could handle one of these items?" (and name three things for him to chose from)



I never helped with my girls' Sunday school class when they were little... until one of the teachers actually pulled me aside and directly asked me.

Helping out was a good experience. I would have never volunteered on my own...



RubySparkles -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/17/2008 5:40:20 PM)

I agree with Krazyxsinner. Sometimes the only way to get people to pay attention is to give them a slap in the face.



oldmethuselah -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/17/2008 5:42:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: krazyxsinner

I would cancel and then watch them complain that it was cancelled. Yuo might want to ask to do a sermon one day and base it on the story "the ant and the grasshopper."


LOL@krazy

Tough Love Huh? [:D][:D]



TMeeks -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/17/2008 6:13:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarryBum

Ok, heres the background. My church is a small church of about 80-90 people on an average Sunday morning. I am the mens director, I plan and coordinate approximately 90% of the large events that our church does. We have an annual event that is coming up in May. This particular event that I am talking about is a community wide car show, it normally brings in several hundred people onto the church grounds for a single day. We have a live Christian band, food, trophies for the cars, door prizes and provide the place for people to gather together and hopefully learn about Gods love and that his love is just not on Sunday morning.
The problem comes in with lack of commitment from other men. Like I said earlier, this event is supposed to be sponsored by the men, but it is mostly sponsored by me. I work from the end of January until early May. Everyday I have off is spent running errands, meeting with people, promoting the show and everything else that it takes to pull off an event of this size. I can't get anyone to help and I have decided that I am not doing it all this year. I told the men at our meeting in January that if they wanted to do this, I'd be happy to head this up, but I need help doing all the running. As of today only 2 people out of the 15-18 men have even showed an interest. At our meeting last week, I overheard 2 guys talking......they said "I don't have time for this, I'll help on show day, but thats it".......what makes them think I have more time than they do??? Is it wrong for me to feel this way? I am just burnt out doing it all, and everyone just showing up and thinking they are really doing something by just showing up for a few hours.....how bout the 3 previous months running every single day, making phone calls, running promo flyers to merchants, collecting door prizes, purchasing food, planning trophies, helping design t shirts and the countless other things that must be done. Like I said, if I had the help, I wouldn't mind, but I am not doing it all by myself......not this year.


This is one of those things that becomes a tradition long after people understand why it's being done in the first place. Maybe it's time to use a little 'Baseline Accounting' with the group by asking them these questions.

Question #1: Do you guys want to do the car show this year?
Question #2: If so, WHY? What's going to be our purpose?
Question #3: If the purpose is valuable, what has to be done to make it happen?
Question #4: Which of these things are YOU willing to do make it happen?

RESULT: If not enough people are willing to taken on the tasks that have to be done, then they obviously don't think the event is valuable enough to pursue and... therefore, don't pursue it.

In my own small church, because of my music background, I was constantly pursued to start a choir. Of course, the people that constantly wanted a choir also constantly had better things to do when it came to practice time. We no longer have a choir. No commitment, no choir. There is nothing in the Bible that says a church must have a choir or a car show. [:D]



Hayseed -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/18/2008 5:42:22 PM)

I know of what you speak Barry. We decided not to do our car show this year either. But, our club is going to take our energy and help other clubs do theirs. Actually, that gets us "out there" more than doing it for our church.

Plus, we're going racing this year and building cars and putting on shows is too much.



DwB37 -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/18/2008 6:32:00 PM)

Well I for one am not into cars whatsoever. So I'll just say I think car shows should be left to the general public outside the realm of church activities.
Other than that I can't give advice on what else you should do.
But if it were me I would instead be asking whether God even wanted me to start these "shows" to begin with.
But then I know nothing about how they came about so I am just guessing.

Go with God,
DB



BarryBum -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/18/2008 9:17:31 PM)

quote:

It is sad that many churches have become poor copies of worldly organizational systems that focus on events like car shows instead of helping their members grow into the image of Christ.

It may be that the Lord has allowed the full frustration of trying to do this with no help as a means to show you that He would rather have you follow Him.


This is by no means a smart statement. Did not Christ himself emerge his own being in "the world"............he didn't just hang out at the tabernacles.....that was a very very close minded thing to say. And to drive my point home, we have 2 families.......almost 10 people that are attending our church right now as a direct result of our car show. They attended the show as participants 2 years ago, they were searching and now they are faithful members of Christs body...............



jn1010lf -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/19/2008 10:29:38 AM)

Hello BarryBum

I've always had serious issues with things designed to draw people to a church. I really feel that every church should examine closely how Jesus evangelized. He had no gimmicks but demonstrated the love of His Father.

Churches grow because others see the love of the Lord glowing between it's members. I realy feel that we need a revival of asking the Lord to make us a witness for him. Check out the entire book of Acts.



Hayseed -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/19/2008 10:38:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DwB37

Well I for one am not into cars whatsoever. So I'll just say I think car shows should be left to the general public outside the realm of church activities.
Other than that I can't give advice on what else you should do.
But if it were me I would instead be asking whether God even wanted me to start these "shows" to begin with.
But then I know nothing about how they came about so I am just guessing.

Go with God,
DB


I don't think you have a clue of what the OP is about but thank you for your input. I hope that you've put a stop to potlucks and other gatherings at your church because then you'd be consistent.

I didn't see where Barry was talking about gimmicks "to get 'em in church" but just an event to share some fun with their community.



heavensmailman -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/19/2008 1:29:57 PM)

Question, for all the men, and you. If you could bring more people to God, would work harder?
Peace



deermousie -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/19/2008 3:10:46 PM)

Is the car show showing demonstrable gain in winning souls to Christ? (I said it this way because there could be things God is doing that He doesn't let you know about). It could be worth the effort for the people being saved, even if the men of your church can't get off their backsides for Jesus. What a scathing indictment on them, but every church has Christians who have ministry elsewhere and "Sunday Christians" just warming the pews.

If you are getting burnt out, it's a red flag. You could be doing this in your own strength or it could be you're doing more than God ever intended you to do. Please don't take this as a slap, because you've been knocking yourself out for God and not just building a boat you can't afford. My hat is off to you for a good work!

Please write down a list of your obligations and "have tos" and the things God has put on your plate (family, job, etc.) and budget your time like money. Then decide if this is the best spending of your time. It might be you're more needed elsewhere. What has God put in your hand?

You could make a list of all the things that have to be done for the car show, and have a sign up sheet with the caveat that if enough people don't sign up it isn't going to happen. Then let the chips fall. You might ask another church to take it over this year, too.

God bless you, brother! You've been working hard a long time; may God give you great profit for it!



Cephyr13 -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/20/2008 11:38:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarryBum

Ok, heres the background. My church is a small church of about 80-90 people on an average Sunday morning. I am the mens director, I plan and coordinate approximately 90% of the large events that our church does. We have an annual event that is coming up in May. This particular event that I am talking about is a community wide car show, it normally brings in several hundred people onto the church grounds for a single day. We have a live Christian band, food, trophies for the cars, door prizes and provide the place for people to gather together and hopefully learn about Gods love and that his love is just not on Sunday morning.
The problem comes in with lack of commitment from other men. Like I said earlier, this event is supposed to be sponsored by the men, but it is mostly sponsored by me. I work from the end of January until early May. Everyday I have off is spent running errands, meeting with people, promoting the show and everything else that it takes to pull off an event of this size. I can't get anyone to help and I have decided that I am not doing it all this year. I told the men at our meeting in January that if they wanted to do this, I'd be happy to head this up, but I need help doing all the running. As of today only 2 people out of the 15-18 men have even showed an interest. At our meeting last week, I overheard 2 guys talking......they said "I don't have time for this, I'll help on show day, but thats it".......what makes them think I have more time than they do??? Is it wrong for me to feel this way? I am just burnt out doing it all, and everyone just showing up and thinking they are really doing something by just showing up for a few hours.....how bout the 3 previous months running every single day, making phone calls, running promo flyers to merchants, collecting door prizes, purchasing food, planning trophies, helping design t shirts and the countless other things that must be done. Like I said, if I had the help, I wouldn't mind, but I am not doing it all by myself......not this year.


Lots of Christians were martyrs in the Bible and gave every waking hour to the Lord. No one ever said being a Christian was all roses and chocolate. [:)] It's sometimes a struggle to handle tasks we are given.

I think the most important thing is to ask yourself if this is what God wants you to do. If you are certain this is what God wants you to do, then you simply put away the "woe is me" attitude and replace it with, "I'm a servant of the Lord" attitude, and stay positive, looking at the prize, which is all of the men that could potentially be saved at this event. It's not about us. It's about them.

Now, God doesn't guilt us, I'm certain of that. He just builds us up. But imagine if you got to heaven and saw the good things you could've done in your life and one of them was this car meet. And if you're shown that many more men could've been saved and a chain reaction of them saving other men could've happened because of it, then you would be pretty upset with yourself for not giving three months to the Lord for this, right?

However, to counteract that possible guilt trip, think of it this way: everything that's going to happen is already set in stone, and those that will be saved, will be saved, period, with or without your help. God doesn't need our help to save the world. He's already done it, and He can save the people who would've shown up at that car meet a different way. He already knows the future, and our actions don't condemn other people. They condemn themselves or choose salvation themselves. It's all a choice. So, whatever decision you make MUST be the right decision, because we're not changing the future here. The future is set in stone... it will happen however it will happen, and God knows that and has devised a plan for that. So, no worries. You cannot go wrong, period. Do whatever you think God wants you to do and be happy about the decision and pray for the Holy Spirit to be your strength and your happiness and joy and peace, and do all things in this manner with the Lord as your joy and peace, no matter what it is you're doing. Negativity and self-loathing is not from God. The Bible says all GOOD gifts come down from the Father of lights, not all negative gifts. lol Stay positive in the Lord and what He has for you.



Cephyr13 -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/20/2008 11:41:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DwB37

Well I for one am not into cars whatsoever. So I'll just say I think car shows should be left to the general public outside the realm of church activities.
Other than that I can't give advice on what else you should do.
But if it were me I would instead be asking whether God even wanted me to start these "shows" to begin with.
But then I know nothing about how they came about so I am just guessing.

Go with God,
DB


Paul says he was all things to all men so that he could safe a few of them. That's what integrating our hobbies into Christ is all about. You find hobbies that draw in non-Christians so that you can have a chance to share Christ with them in hopes of saving them. It's what Paul did, more-or-less, but Paul probably did it with chariots or horses. LOL just kiddin'. :)



hjemerson -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/21/2008 1:05:40 PM)

After reading all this and I hope ypu will have come to some peace of this. If you chocie not to or to go on . I would do the list for your personal pray time , as for haveing a event as this I know and understand we in the church have to reach out to the HWY and By way to call them in , Some time the only way some people will walk near a church is for a event as this but agin as time will have they will remember the freindly smile or words spoken and may retrun or you have at least planted a seed. Again you do need to contact the men and even any on elsa/ woman that plan activities at you r church see if they are all getting the burn out feeling! Christian worker do need to refresh them self in the Lorsds works. Maybe a much need break is in store for all From the SS worker to the Potluck leader!! At one large chrch I was working with the pastor ask every one to pray look at the typ of activies the church was responable a n pray the Lord to show them one or two to become faitful to. Not to spread to thin even if it mean some activities come to a stop till some is LEAD to care it on.



TMeeks -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/21/2008 2:55:51 PM)

It's interesting that so many questioned that such an event should even be put on by a church.

But, it indicates a current mindset that appears to be spiritual when, in fact, it's actually the converse because it's based on compartmentalism.

Compartmentalism puts God and the church into one box and everything else in other boxes. We have church boxes. We have work boxes. We have play boxes Etc.

But, if there is any validity to compartmentalization at all it is that there is God and there in anything anti-God. But, we find both of the contents of these boxes in the church as well as outside the church.

We, as the Bible has told us, are the SALT OF THE EARTH. You infuse things with salt to enhance their flavors. When we minister to the WHOLE PERSON through ENHANCED experiences common to all humanity then we show them something that they have experienced before. While it may make some of us uncomfortable, those that find fellowship in this or that activity may be ministered to in deep and consequential ways.

To me, on a personal level, seeing a Harley or Big Rig, painted with Christian symbolism makes me a bit uncomfortable. But, an evening of Christian Opera or classical music might make those reached by the big rig or Harley JUST as uncomfortable. But, that is why ALL of these extensions into the community have the same validity. Each and every lost person is a unique and valuable soul and Jesus Died for them.

The average biker, the long haul driver and elitest might not darken the door of a church and may never hear about Christ if there weren't those that didn't care enough to meet them where they are... the equivalent of Jesus going through Samaria.



GroupW -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/21/2008 3:14:11 PM)

TMeeks-I continue to enjoy the way you respond to these posts.

Thanks.

BT



Dancre -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (3/21/2008 10:16:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarryBum

Ok, heres the background. My church is a small church of about 80-90 people on an average Sunday morning. I am the mens director, I plan and coordinate approximately 90% of the large events that our church does. We have an annual event that is coming up in May. This particular event that I am talking about is a community wide car show, it normally brings in several hundred people onto the church grounds for a single day. We have a live Christian band, food, trophies for the cars, door prizes and provide the place for people to gather together and hopefully learn about Gods love and that his love is just not on Sunday morning.
The problem comes in with lack of commitment from other men. Like I said earlier, this event is supposed to be sponsored by the men, but it is mostly sponsored by me. I work from the end of January until early May. Everyday I have off is spent running errands, meeting with people, promoting the show and everything else that it takes to pull off an event of this size. I can't get anyone to help and I have decided that I am not doing it all this year. I told the men at our meeting in January that if they wanted to do this, I'd be happy to head this up, but I need help doing all the running. As of today only 2 people out of the 15-18 men have even showed an interest. At our meeting last week, I overheard 2 guys talking......they said "I don't have time for this, I'll help on show day, but thats it".......what makes them think I have more time than they do??? Is it wrong for me to feel this way? I am just burnt out doing it all, and everyone just showing up and thinking they are really doing something by just showing up for a few hours.....how bout the 3 previous months running every single day, making phone calls, running promo flyers to merchants, collecting door prizes, purchasing food, planning trophies, helping design t shirts and the countless other things that must be done. Like I said, if I had the help, I wouldn't mind, but I am not doing it all by myself......not this year.


Ah, kiddo, I'm so sorry this is happening to you. [&o] It's sad that they are treating you like this. Have you told the pastor what you are going through? He might be able to assign folks to help out. Anyway, I do understand and you are doing the right thing.

kim



BibleBear -> RE: Am I wrong in making this decision (4/20/2008 3:51:48 PM)

Well Look No Further than The Bible. GOD himself can give us the Right answers. However as Christians we should minister one another. Because none of us knows all Scriptures, All of its meanings and what to do in all occasions.

I am a Born again Christian and I desire to know the Truth of The Lord primarily Through the Holy Spirit which is the spirit of Truth.

.This situation sounds like Matthew chapter 9 Verses 37 and 38
37 Then He said to His disciples, “The harvest truly is plentiful, but the laborers are few. 38 Therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.”
However Prayer itself will only work if people are willing to abide in GOD. Meaning if there are laborers that can be found, they must be willing to do the work.

Your decision is not wrong. . The Work should not be done 90 percent by you. It is hard to find people these days that are willing to do the work for The Lord. That making up any kind of excuse, not considering this is a Calling from GOD that is far more important than a regular Job. I am sure they could find time.

However don’t throw out this idea. Keep a bulletin at the Church about this yearly event. See if you can have people sign up for it. Talk to them and discuss what will need to be done.

Gather as many as possible in case some drift away. If you have extra and not needed you can let some know thanks for your offer. We have enough.

The Lord has plenty of Word to do wherever we go. .

The Bible says many are called but few are chosen. Now you can see why. Only a few will stand up. The Lord speaks the Truth. . Gather help over time. See who are faithful. Then hopefully when this event occurs again, you will have enough Help.
Your Friend in Christ
Bible Bear



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