RE: Modern Churches = Lazy Christians ??? (Full Version)

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WesP -> RE: Modern Churches = Lazy Christians ??? (3/26/2008 1:22:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pezdispenser

I used to attend a modern church, held at a college campus (I stopped attending after moving).

One Sunday, the pastor got up and said that if the believers were there just to have a good time and not be changed, not be moved to action, he didn't want them there. He didn't want benchwarmers.

I guess for me the real question is, is the Gospel being preached...not some watered down version that makes you feel good and does nothing to exact change, but the life changing Word of God? Traditional or modern, this is becoming more and more difficult to find.


No worries. Here is the cure!



pezdispenser -> RE: Modern Churches = Lazy Christians ??? (3/26/2008 1:58:29 PM)

Golly Gee Wes, thanks!
For all its claims, it seems well worth the $199.99.



WesP -> RE: Modern Churches = Lazy Christians ??? (3/26/2008 2:18:29 PM)

LOL! Glad I could help. [;)]



SD456 -> RE: Modern Churches = Lazy Christians ??? (3/26/2008 9:45:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pezdispenser

I used to attend a modern church, held at a college campus (I stopped attending after moving).

One Sunday, the pastor got up and said that if the believers were there just to have a good time and not be changed, not be moved to action, he didn't want them there. He didn't want benchwarmers.

I guess for me the real question is, is the Gospel being preached...not some watered down version that makes you feel good and does nothing to exact change, but the life changing Word of God? Traditional or modern, this is becoming more and more difficult to find.


That's true. And just as difficult is finding a church that teaches the word of God and also allows the Holy Spirit to have freedom in the services and who teach the power of God in a christian's life. Too many that teach the bible will deny the power of God, which gives them a form of godliness but not the full expression of it as we are to have in our lives.[8D] It makes them powerless christians who are unable to witness as Paul did with power instead of words only.



pezdispenser -> RE: Modern Churches = Lazy Christians ??? (3/27/2008 10:44:58 AM)

SD,

I believe there is a difference in allowing the Holy Spirit to have free reign in a service and allowing emotion to have free reign. Too often emotionalism is confused as being the Holy Spirit.

This past summer, I attended camp meetings with a 'prophetic' speaker. I tend to be overly cautious in this type of arena, but on this particular occasion, I allowed myself to get in on the hype, even though my gut was telling me something was off. I will be honest, the excitement of the group wore off on me. I too wanted to see God perform something miraculous, something BIG. I kept asking myself, 'who am I to say how God should work? If He wants to sprinkle gold dust, that's His business....' [8|] I should have listened to my gut as I rather feel like kicking myself now.....

My question is (and please don't think I'm coming down on you, just sharing my own experience and opinion), why are we always looking for the BIG? Isn't the greatest miracle of all, the miracle of salvation? Isn't a cleansed soul far more important than a cleansed body?

The other thing I was gently reminded of is that God speaks to us in the whispers.
11 The LORD said, "Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by."
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. 1 King 19:11-12



SD456 -> RE: Modern Churches = Lazy Christians ??? (3/27/2008 2:57:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pezdispenser

SD,

I believe there is a difference in allowing the Holy Spirit to have free reign in a service and allowing emotion to have free reign. Too often emotionalism is confused as being the Holy Spirit.


My question is (and please don't think I'm coming down on you, just sharing my own experience and opinion), why are we always looking for the BIG? Isn't the greatest miracle of all, the miracle of salvation? Isn't a cleansed soul far more important than a cleansed body?

The other thing I was gently reminded of is that God speaks to us in the whispers.
11 The LORD said, "Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by."
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. 1 King 19:11-12


I'm not speaking about emotion, I'm speaking about the power of the Holy Spirit as Paul said:

1Co 2:4
and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

Where is that 'demonstrated' in the church today? I've seen someplaces where it's demonstrated by why isn't it in ALL the churches everywhere?

According to Paul, unbelievers need to see this in christians, so I think it must be very important:

1Co 2:5
that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

The kingdom of God consists of supernatural power, not just in preaching & teaching:

1Co 4:20
For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power

Paul equates a man's viability as a christian according to the power of God showing in their life. Is the church today just bible verse memorizers? Where's this power He speaks about?:

1Co 4:19
and I will find out not the talk of these arrogant people but their power



pezdispenser -> RE: Modern Churches = Lazy Christians ??? (3/27/2008 3:06:33 PM)

SD,

How would you like to see power demonstrated through believers? Are you referring to anything in particular?



SD456 -> RE: Modern Churches = Lazy Christians ??? (3/27/2008 3:13:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pezdispenser

SD,

How would you like to see power demonstrated through believers? Are you referring to anything in particular?


I've seen power demonstrated in some believers. I've seen healing miracles and prophetic words that have been right on. I've seen God do signs in the natural and I've seen God give someone revelation to interpret a dream for an unbeliever that led that unbeliever to faith in Jesus. But why isn't that found everywhere in ALL churches, even traditional ones?Why do only a minority of christians walk in the power of God and have faith for it? Shouldn't everyone?



facedown -> RE: Modern Churches = Lazy Christians ??? (4/1/2008 7:11:33 AM)

my apologices soxfan, sometimes i get a little distracted:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Soxfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: facedown

soxfan
what details construct your check list for "evanjellyfish" services?


1. NO mention of sin in the message
2. NO mention of the need for repentance
3. NO mention of the need for a Savior in your message
4. Overall lack of Scripture reference in your message
5. Music with absolutely NO substance. The "Jesus is My Girlfriend" types
6. A congreagtion where the majority of people do not have their Bibles in their hands, but rather rely on Scripture posted on a screen and witty anecdotes from the pastor.
7. Relying more on "cutting edge" video clips to make a point that using the Word of God.
8. People more concerned about "feeding" on their coffee or bagel, than the Word.

Actually, I can make it easier. Watch a Joel Osteen or Rober Schuller "message" sometime.


ok. however,
1. i'm not certain i've ever seen such a thing
2. same same
3. same same
4. sure. what's interesting, is that in a liturgical church, you'll hear and read 5 minutes (give or take) of scripture during the service, and that's *if* you don't count all the scripture thats used as a backbone for the liturgy itself (though it isn't referenced). in a modernist western church, you might here a couple passages expounded upon, still in others you may hear scripture strung together throughout a "sermon". but i'm not certain that in any of these is an "overall lack". nor do i think that someone needs to say "because the bible says so"
5. never heard "jesus is my girlfriend", and somehow i think you made that up. what is "substance" anyways? sometimes, the most simplest of prayers have the most "substance". don't get me wrong, i tend to agree with you here.
6. i don't see that as an issue at all
7. if the modern tools are used to point one to god, then what's the point?
8. i'm not sure such an observation can be qualified.

to be honest, i'm not at all certain if you and i are on the same page regarding what type of churches your talking about. anything specific? and anything specific regarding what may be the opposite? references to websites, podcasts, etc (the 'good' the 'bad' the 'ugly').

pax



Heedful -> RE: Modern Churches = Lazy Christians ??? (4/1/2008 10:34:41 AM)

When the question is asked Modern Churches= Lazy Christians ??? Are we talking about the churches of today or the emergent church and ones like it. There is a difference. Where I live it is not a big town but we have something like 77 churches, there is a huge outreach opportunity coming up in a couple of months and only 7 thats right 7 have shown any interest. I understand that we must keep heresy out of the church. But why do we do nothing day after day and show no love, no resemblance of Christ.... nothing. And then all of the sudden some smooth talker saying "what their itching ears want to hear" and we are looking at each other pointing fingers. Give the one who are lost the map before they drive off the cliff, not when they are already over it.



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