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Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role?

 
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Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/19/2008 12:48:51 PM   
fritzeverett

 

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I'm woke up today wondering about our role in the bible. When I say our role I mean the United States Of America. It's important to me to examine all views because I know that we tend to very basis on issue sometimes. I need to examine several scholarly examples so that I can discern what is right. What is the role of America in the bible?
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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/19/2008 2:17:47 PM   
JimboFletch


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As far as I have been able to determine, the USA isn't there. It either becomes absorbed into another nation or is destroyed.

Surprising to our inflated egos, isn't it?
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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/19/2008 2:24:28 PM   
charlotte123

 

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our nation's "inflated ego" is the very reason it's not surprising. God never has been too keen on the proud as far as I can tell.
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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/19/2008 2:52:35 PM   
deermousie


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I don't see America anywhere in Scripture.

Israel is there, of course, and the second most mentioned nation is Iraq! It's under a different name, but it's there. Abraham was born there - Ur of Mesopotamia, now Iraq (and parts of Syria). Russia is probably Magog. Syria is mentioned, and of course, Egypt. Ethiopia. Turkey is probably where the Garden of Eden was (origin of rivers still present, but that could have been messed up by the Flood: the Tigris and Euphrates - Gen. 2:14). Moab and Edom are now Jordan (I could be wrong, the maps have fallen out of my Bible). A secular link with good info is http://www.crystalinks.com/mesopotamia.html

The statue of Daniel's interpretation probably referred to Babylon, the Medo-Pesian Empire, Greece and Rome, in that order.

But no America. God often speaks of judgement by nation. It's not inconceivable that God will judge America that kills it's babies and makes God illegal. He may return the favor. Share the Gospel every chance you get, and pray that God will forgive us and raise up someone to lead the country back to Him.

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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/19/2008 4:37:34 PM   
FurGodWurLivin


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The answer to this really depends on who you ask. If you ask some people, they will tell you that America is the Harlot Babylon in Revelation 17 and 18. If you ask some people, we are one of the Kingdoms from Daniel 2 and 7. If you ask others, America just isn't there. Personally, I ascribe to the idea that it isn't there. I don't think it is because America will be totally destroyed or taken over, but that we have nothing of massive consequence that we do during the end times. This could be because of an erosion of political power, a loss of military influence, or even total and complete isolationism that we try to stay mostly uninvolved. But whatever the case, I don't see the USA identified in the Bible.

Adam

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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/19/2008 6:52:39 PM   
Cephyr13

 

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This is an interesting one to show in the Bible. There are 13 numerical prophecies in the Bible, and three I'm going to show won't make as much sense without the others to back them up and show their legitimacy.

I'm going to show three prophecies that are "time, times and half a time prophecies." Two given to the Jews, and one to the Christians. We've been told that time, times and half a time means 3 1/2 years. That's incorrect. First, we must understand the Hebrew saying, so I'll show you another few instances where it's used:

Job 33:14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man
perceiveth it not.
Job 40:5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea,
twice; but I will proceed no further.
Psa 62:11 God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this;
that power belongeth unto God.

In these sayings, once, twice means: 1 + 1

Therefore, time, times and half a time means: 1 + 1 + 1/2 = 2 1/2

Now, the question is, what does "time" mean? Peter gives Christians that little bit of information.

2 Peter 3:8
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

I like how he says "don't be unaware of this." What's sad is that no one translates it correctly. "Day" in the Greek is "Hemera" in this verse. However, Hemera is not translated as "day" unless in reference to the last day, the Day of the Lord, usually. Otherwise, Hemera is translated as "time." KJV translates hemera to mean "time" 4 times. NASB translates it to me "time" 12 times. They missed this one, though, because it sounds funny. Here's how it's supposed to read:

2 Peter 3:8
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one time is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one time.

So, time = 1,000 years.

Time, times and half a time = 2,500 years

Now, let's check out the prophecies.

Daniel 7:25
25'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

I'm not going to get into the specifics, but this prophecy was given to a Jew, for the Jews, and is about the Jews. In Matthew, the Jews are called the Old Testament saints. Those are the saints being referred to here. We know this prophecy was given to Daniel in 552 BC, so let's add 2,500 years.

-552 BC + 2,500 = 1948 AD The year the Jews became a nation again without anyone else ruling over them

Daniel 12:7
7I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering (or scattering) the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.

This prophecy is about the end of all of Daniel's prophecies, which he says starts the time of the end. This prophecy was given in 533 BC according to historians.

-533 BC + 2,500 = 1967 AD (the year the Jews took back their temple mount)

So the "time of the Gentiles" meant the time that the Gentiles ruled the temple mount. And the time of the end starts at the end of the time of the Gentiles.

Now, for the prophecy given to Christians in Revelation 12.

Revelation 12:14
14But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

When Ephraim, also called Israel, which is the 10 northern tribes, split from Judah (the southern two tribes), Ephraim/Israel ended up getting taken captive by Assyria and dispersed into the world, never to be heard from again. Historians place this in 724 BC. Let's add 2,500 years to that.

-724 BC + 2,500 = 1776 AD (The year the United States became a nation)

We're told that Ephriam will tremble from the West, will be planted in a pleasant place, will be protected by waters, that her history is only half over, and that she will bring her children to the destroyer (abortion? or war?). Israel had 12 tribes that split into 13 tribes because the tribe of Jacob split into Ephraim and Menasseh. We had 12 colonies that split Carolina into North and South, making our original 13 colonies. 13 is oddly enough the number of the Trinity: 1 in 3 = 13. We have 13 stripes on our flag for our 13 colonies. The Levites had 48 cities given to them throughout Israel so they, the priests, could give sacrifices. We were given 48 contiguous states, and from 1917 to 1959, we displayed 48 stars on our flag due to this. The two things we had in common with old Israel we just happened to display on our flag. Interesting cooindicence.

Pretty weird, eh? There are 10 other numerical prophecies that all come out dead on accurate like they're supposed to. Many in Daniel and some in Revelation. Here's the book they're found in:

www.ellisskolfield.com (click on Books & Essays, then click on The False Prophet Chapters 1-9)

Great book. Irrefutable. He's dead on accurate and it kills everyone else's prophecy interpretations. It makes a TON of sense too when you see these prophetic fulfillments. Hope this helps.

< Message edited by Cephyr13 -- 3/20/2008 7:39:30 AM >


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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/19/2008 7:21:21 PM   
Kat_D


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

As far as I have been able to determine, the USA isn't there. It either becomes absorbed into another nation or is destroyed.


I agree, Jimbo!

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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/19/2008 7:37:00 PM   
bluestone


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It's not. The world nor the Bible revolve around the USA

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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/19/2008 8:51:07 PM   
Dancre


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fritzeverett

I'm woke up today wondering about our role in the bible. When I say our role I mean the United States Of America. It's important to me to examine all views because I know that we tend to very basis on issue sometimes. I need to examine several scholarly examples so that I can discern what is right. What is the role of America in the bible?


I think you need to change your statement to what is the role of Christians in the Bible. America means nothing, it's Christ Jesus who means everything. America is just a place where people live. We are a group of people struggling to get by. That's all there is to it.

kim
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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/19/2008 11:06:17 PM   
krazyxsinner


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quote:

The answer to this really depends on who you ask. If you ask some people, they will tell you that America is the Harlot Babylon in Revelation 17 and 18.


That would be the catholic Church. As far as Amerika she will probably be under the sea with Atlantis.

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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/19/2008 11:28:34 PM   
lightshineon


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Well maybe we need to get on our kness and pray.

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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/19/2008 11:38:49 PM   
krazyxsinner


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Or get scuba gear

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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/20/2008 12:23:46 AM   
BibleL7

 

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The Americas are not in Bible. Some think that they are included in Ezekiel prophecy as the young lions of Tarshish as Tarshish is thought to be England possibility but not certain. As for other possibilities some say it is the Babylon that is destroyed for the description of merchants also a possibility. Other possibility is in Revelation when one third of the land is destroyed it makes some sense that the Americas would be destroyed thus leaving only continents which are connected. I dont say that any of these are true just know of them as some of the thoughts of some scholars.

Just the opinion of a small town preacher
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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/20/2008 4:20:49 AM   
3cappuccinosmom


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quote:

It's not. The world nor the Bible revolve around the USA


It doesn't????? What are you saying?????



I have always been a little baffled by the pride I've seen in America's churches about being American, as if that were something special to God. We are a tiny blip on the large scale history. I am glad to live here and consider this a great nation, but we do have serious flaws and the society that we've constructed is not going to last forever.

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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/20/2008 7:29:41 AM   
Cephyr13

 

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If you'll read my post up above (the unfortunately long post), you'll see America is spoken of. We are Ephraim. Ephraim, also called Israel, was the 10 northern tribes of Israel. The Jews today are from the 2 souther tribes called Judah, hense the name Jews.

Ephraim was taken captive by Assyria in 724 BC and dispersed into the world, never to be heard from again. Yet God prophesied Ephraim's return a few times. He said they were a bread half baked, meaning that their history was only have done after they were lead away. He said Ephraim would tremble from the West, so Ephraim will be in the West apparently. He said Ephraim will be protected by waters and planted in a pleasant place. The United States is protected on two sides by water, and on the other two sides we have weak nations that would never attack us and expect to actually win, and those nations are surrounded by water on most sides as well. Ephraim is also prophesied to bring her children to the destroyer (abortion, possibly), which I find it interesting that someone actually pointed out our abortion in this thread. But God speaks favorably about us, dispite the fact that He used to speak very badly about Ephraim. He says He cannot forget Ephraim or let her go into destruction. So, if we are in the end times, Ephraim HAS returned. And as I said, it was 724 BC when they were dispersed into Assyria, and if you look at the prophecy given to us in Revelation 12 about "time, times and half a time," you'll see that time, times and half a time means 2,500 years, and -724 BC + 2500 years = 1776 AD, the year the United States became a nation.

We are Ephraim, and we are in the Bible. It also says in that verse in Revelation 12 that we (the woman, Israel, also called Ephraim back then) will be taken on the wings of a great eagle to a place of safety for 2,500 years. Funny that when we create a nation, we use the eagle as our symbol.

Also, we have two major things in common with old Israel. The 12 tribes became 13 tribes when the tribe of Jacob split into Ephraim and Menasseh. We had 12 colonies, but the Carolinas were too big, so they split them into North and South, and that became our 13 original colonies. Then, also, God gave the Levites (priests) 48 cities within the nation of Israel so that everyone could have a priest nearby to give sacrifices before the tribes split. We were given 48 contiguous states here in the United States.

From 1917 to 1959, we had 48 stars on our flag representing those states, and we had 13 stripes on our flag representing the first 13 colonies. Funny that the two things we had in common with old Israel are the two things we put on our flag unknowingly. God most certainly has a hand in all of this, and we are Ephraim. We, besides Israel, are the only nation that built our Constitutional foundation on God and Judao-Christian values, and sored to the greatest super-power the world has ever known in the shortest amount of time in history... about 200 years. Ephraim was the warrior tribe. We resemble them quite a bit right now, actually, in our warring nature, and our sinful nature. But we also have compassion for other nations and help them far more than any other country on the planet. We give more in foreign aid than nearly every other nation on the planet combined. Don't knock us. God has done a lot of good through us.

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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/20/2008 8:14:13 AM   
timf

 

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Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role?

Isaiah 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Some people try to show the US in the phrase "islands of the sea" (distant lands). However, it is really too thin to use this obscure phrase to specifically mean the US.

Daniel 2:43
And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

The mention of Daniel's statue might show the introduction of the weakness of democracy as something that is mixed with the ruthlessness of iron. But again this would not have a specific reference to the US.

The Babylon spoken of in Revelation 18 does sound uncannily like the US. In particular the riches and the corrupting influence on the rest of the world. However there is a verse at the end that sounds like it disqualifies the US;

Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Unless this means the people we have killed in our wars or through abortion, it may exclude the US as a possibility.

There may be one other possible reference;

Revelation 6:8
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

If the start of the tribulation period requires the death of 25% of the people on earth through a combination of war, starvation, disease, and wild animals, it would seem likely that nuclear weapons would have to be employed.

There are some other verses that seem to describe at least the state of Christianity in America;

Revelation 3:14-20
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Too many Christians have been lured into the worship of the state through patriotism and love of country. They even come to consider the US almost as Augustine's "City of God".

It would be reasonable given the history described in the Bible to assume that God will not let us keep killing babies, rebuilding other nations in our image, spewing filth and pornography around the world, and evangelizing the religion of secularism forever. At some point evil must be judged. When that day comes, it may very well look like Revelation 18.
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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/20/2008 10:32:28 AM   
Cephyr13

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: timf
It would be reasonable given the history described in the Bible to assume that God will not let us keep killing babies, rebuilding other nations in our image, spewing filth and pornography around the world, and evangelizing the religion of secularism forever. At some point evil must be judged. When that day comes, it may very well look like Revelation 18.


You're calling America Mystery Babylon? That's interesting since there are far worse nations than us on this planet, and we give more foreign aid than nearly all other countries combined.

It says that Mystery Babylon is a city on seven hills. Rome is known as the City on Seven Hills. It also says that Mystery Babylon is clothed in red and purple and fine jewels. The Vatican is in Rome, and their cardinals wear red, and bishops wear purple, and the Cathedrals are adorned in jewels and gold that could be better used to feed the poor like it used to be used for in the Old Testament tithing days. This woman is drunk with the blood of the saints, and Rome and the Vatican during the Holy Roman Empire are said to have killed more Christians than any other entity on the planet (that went on for 1,000 years).

During this time, the Catholics would tell the Jews to give them all their possessions for safe keeping, then they'd hide the Jews so that the people who would come hunt them down would not find them. The Catholics would then procede to tell the persuers where the Jews were hiding so they would be slaughtered. Then the Catholic churches would keep the possessions of the dead Jews. Hitler and Muslims have killed millions and millions of Jews, who in Matthew are called the Old Testament saints.

America is not Mystery Babylon. We do not sit on seven hills nor are we known for that by any means. None of our cities are known for that. We bear little to no resemblence of Mystery Babylon. We are one of only two nations on the planet that are constitutionally built on Judao-Christian values, and we grew to the dominant world super-power in less than 200 years on these very values. Sure, the values are going out the window now. Or forfathers said that if our people lose their religion and morals, America will fall and cease to exist as we know it. We're just seeing the repercusions of that now, but we will not die out before Christ comes back. We will still be here. Because if we ever ceased to exist, immediately Arab nations like Iran would nuke Israel and then Armaggedon would not be possible. We must be there in the end to protect Israel, because without us, no one protects her and she gets destroyed.

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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/20/2008 1:17:17 PM   
DaveW


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Going on about Rome being the whore of Babylon is a TOS violation.

As to America being Ephriam, there is absolutely NO historical evidence to support that. The 10 tribes were carried to the northeast (current Russia/Siberia) and from there they have been tracked thru China into Southeast Asia and back west to the edge of India. In fact on India's border with Burma is a province that has tried to break off to be an independant Jewish state.

Neither Ephriaim or any other of the 10 northern tribes ended up in any great numbers either in western Europe or the US.

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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/20/2008 5:37:34 PM   
FurGodWurLivin


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quote:

Going on about Rome being the whore of Babylon is a TOS violation.
It is? I was under the impression that that going on about the Pope being the Antichrist or the Catholic Church being the whore of Babylon. But to be honest, I'm surprised that using the word "whore" isn't a TOS violation. Because many a scholar have postured the idea that the harlot Babylon is a reconstituted Roman Empire.
quote:

Neither Ephriaim or any other of the 10 northern tribes ended up in any great numbers either in western Europe or the US.
Quite true. Because Assyria smacked Israel, and Assyria didn't go much further west after Israel... neither did Persia, for that matter (correction, Persia did take Egypt).

Adam

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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/20/2008 5:59:07 PM   
Dakotasunbeam

 

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quote:

The answer to this really depends on who you ask. If you ask some people, they will tell you that America is the Harlot Babylon in Revelation 17 and 18. If you ask some people, we are one of the Kingdoms from Daniel 2 and 7.


I've heard both of the above postulations. There is a possibility, but I couldn't tell you with surety. One thing I do know, All nations are judged for their deeds. I suppose we will know if America is or is not when her time for judgement comes. If her judgement looks like the one described for the Great Harlot Babylon, or the Kindoms in Daniel, then we'll know. We'll just have to wait and see. All things will be revealed.

I just hope I can find out at least a year or two in advance so that I can make a run for the boarder!
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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/21/2008 11:49:56 AM   
new68

 

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Several have mentioned that America has inflated egos and the world and the Bible don't revolve around the USA. I agree with this 100%. However, the OP still has a valid question. Its valid because at the present time, like it or not, the USA is the arguably the most powerful and influential nation in the world. Economically, militarily, and culturally. It is also the only true ally of Israel. I believe (not certain though) that the USA has more Christians per capita than any other nation and that the majority of Christian evangelism and missionary work around the world comes from churches and ministries based in the USA. We are certainly a nation that has been blessed by God. And one of the few, if not the only nation founded by Christians to be a Christian nation. So why then is it not mentioned in the end times in the Bible? At least not with any certainty and clarity. The only logical conclusion is that something must happen to the USA prior to the tribulation period spoken about in Revelation. The question is what happens? I don't think anyone really knows. But it seems clear to me that something does. Nuclear war or a total economic collapse are possibilities. But I think if either of those occurred, the entire world would fall into economic turmoil the likes of which has never occurred in history. I think the most likely answer is that something happens to the Christian Church in the USA. I believe it is the Rapture. I know that this is a debatable topic, and I am not trying to start or engage in a debate about the Rapture. If you don't believe in a pre-Trib rapture, thats fine. I do, and I think that is what will happen. Think about it. What would happen if suddenly millions of Americans vanished? Important government officials, possibly even the President and the VP gone. A large part of our military gone. Businesses both large and small suddenly without a significant portion of their work force. Our economy, government, and military would cease to function. The devastation would be unimaginable. The USA would be very vulnerable to take over. It would be seeking help from other "friendly" nations. Which would most likely be Europe. But to get help from the EU, the USA would be forced to change its policies. Particularly toward Israel and Muslim countries. It would be told to stay out of the Middle East and would have no choice but to comply. We would be forced into aligning politically with the EU and/or to become totally isolated from the rest of the world. I think that is the reason there is no clear mention of the USA in the Bible.
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RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/22/2008 1:14:39 AM   
bowlight

 

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I thought America was the "New Jerusalem." There has been the spirit of abortion in this country, but God is bigger and has many who turn that whole scenario around. In fact, Planned Parenthood is having a suit drawn against them. Many taxpayers are unwilling to pay $$ into taxes for it. I don't know what the government is going to do about that, but they will think of another way to extract tax $.
Too..the business with Homosexualism--86% of the American people do not want it in the schools of America. There are very few that want that
to be lifted up.
Focus on the Family does a great job as representing what this country should stand for, and has gone many times to the "battle" for Christians.
He hasn't lost many. He's been attacked, but hasn't lost many. Praise the Lord.
Jay Sukalov is fighting everything that comes down the pike for this country...for God's Banner to be lifted up...God will not be mocked! it says in the word of God. The devil can lie like anyone's business...but
thankfully...God is always on the clean-up crew...
America is in the Bible...it's so specific, but this country was founded on
Christianity...and there are milions and millions and millions of Americans
who are Christian.
Babylon...is situated in Iraq...but it could be the spiritual Babylon is more
inclined towards the East....They kill without reserve. They hate just because...God gave me that China ...or a portion of China is splitting off.
Tho' that whole country is not Christian; there are many who have come to Christ through the ministry of Ruth Graham Bell and Franklin Graham.
Praise the Lord!
God is going to raise up..and most likely has already raised up such
a blossoming in this land...that it's going to come about when anyone least expects it...
"There I saw the dazzling light that shows the presence of Israel's God,
(yours/mine) just as I had seen it when was by the Chebar River. God said to me, "Mortal man, look toward the north." I looked, and there near the altar by the entrance of the gateway I saw the idol that was an outrage to God..." Ezek8:4, 5...:Mortal man, do you see what is happening? Look at th disgusting things the people of Israel are doing here, driving m farther and farther away from My holy place. You will see even more disgraceful things than this." Ezek. 8:6
Bowlight
Post #: 22
RE: Where Is America in the Bible and What is or role? - 3/22/2008 4:16:11 AM