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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:02:03 PM
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golfjack
Posts: 54
Joined: 10/23/2008
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What Bibles do you guys study? Second Cor. 4:4 ccalls Satan the god of this world. As such, he has dominion. where? In this world. You see, God cannott do anything unless somebody down here asks Him. Do you have a problem with that. God has given me authority to use His Name, Jesus to make the enemy flee. Do you think God is throwing spitballs at us. The devil is.
Yes, man has a responsibility for his salvation. What part of Romans 10:9-10 do you not understand. I would rather I have a testimony that I was healed of cancer. Yes, we have too many doubting Christians.
Peace, Golfjack
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:03:05 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: golfjack
Did the woman with the issue of blood act on her faith when she touched the garment of Jesus, and Jesus told her HER FAITH HAS MADE HER WHOLE?
Peace, Golfjack
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible - "not that there was such virtue in her faith as to effect such a cure; but that he, the object of her faith, had performed it for her"
People's NT: "Her faith, of course, had not been the cause of her cure. Christ's power had been that. But her faith was the condition on her part."
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:10:32 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4179
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quote:
ORIGINAL: golfjack
You see, God cannott do anything unless somebody down here asks Him. Do you have a problem with that.
That might be one of the craziest things I've ever heard. But I guess that explains why you don't pray that God's will be done...it appears you believe He has no will without being told what to do.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:12:45 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: golfjack
What Bibles do you guys study? Second Cor. 4:4 ccalls Satan the god of this world. As such, he has dominion. where? In this world. You see, God cannott do anything unless somebody down here asks Him. Do you have a problem with that.
Peace, Golfjack
Yeah, I have a big problem with that! God has authority over everything on earth and in heaven. But, thanks for saying this because now I know you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:17:17 PM
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7OFUS
Posts: 75
Joined: 11/5/2008
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quote:
Did the woman with the issue of blood act on her faith when she touched the garment of Jesus, and Jesus told her HER FAITH HAS MADE HER WHOLE?
Peace, Golfjack
To answer your question;
Yes she did, and Jesus, for His sovereign purposes, chose to heal her on the spot.
Please answer one for all of us who really want to know.
1Tim 5:23 No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake and your frequent illnesses.
Why didn't Paul tell Timothy to appeal to the atonement, have more faith, pray harder, and/or tell him it's not God's will he be sick?
Again, please.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:17:48 PM
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GodsMusic
Posts: 734
Joined: 4/3/2006
From: Arkansas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: golfjack
You see, God cannott do anything unless somebody down here asks Him. Do you have a problem with that.
Peace, Golfjack
I have a serious problem with that. Chapter and verse, please?
and a quote from either one of the Kenneth's (Hagin/Copeland) won't get it.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:18:59 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5518
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 7OFUS
Wow! What is the definition of blasphemy!
And that is one of the tell-tale signs of cult beliefs... they demote God and deify man.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:19:09 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 1422
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: TX
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: golfjack
What Bibles do you guys study? Second Cor. 4:4 ccalls Satan the god of this world. As such, he has dominion. where? In this world. You see, God cannott do anything unless somebody down here asks Him. Do you have a problem with that. God has given me authority to use His Name, Jesus to make the enemy flee. Do you think God is throwing spitballs at us. The devil is.
You do realize that the devil isn't actually a god, right? Just because unbelievers have sought after idols and have, in effect, worshiped demons, that does not mean that the devil has the dominion you say that he does.
God can do anything he wants. He does not need our permission. God is not limited by humans. There are many times in scripture where God does things without permission by humans.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:20:09 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 456
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: golfjack
What Bibles do you guys study? Second Cor. 4:4 calls Satan the god of this world. As such, he has dominion. where? In this world. You see, God cannot do anything unless somebody down here asks Him. Do you have a problem with that. God has given me authority to use His Name, Jesus to make the enemy flee. Do you think God is throwing spitballs at us. The devil is.
Yes, man has a responsibility for his salvation. What part of Romans 10:9-10 do you not understand. I would rather I have a testimony that I was healed of cancer. Yes, we have too many doubting Christians.
Peace, Golfjack
Where does it say God the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe cannot do anything unless somebody down here asks him. I do have a problem with it because it is not true. The enemy flees if you are in submission to God. Using the name of Jesus isn't a magic word. Where you say, cancer leave in Jesus name. Or Devil you have to leave in Jesus name. Just because you say in Jesus name and really have faith means a thing is gonna happen.
James 4:6-8 (New King James Version)
6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “ God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” 7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
1 Peter 5:1-10 (New King James Version)
1 The elders who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed: 2 Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; 3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock; 4 and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away. 5 Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for “ God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” 6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time, 7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you. 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. 10 But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:20:41 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5518
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: golfjack
You see, God cannott do anything unless somebody down here asks Him. Do you have a problem with that.
That might be one of the craziest things I've ever heard. But I guess that explains why you don't pray that God's will be done...it appears you believe He has no will without being told what to do.
Crazy? Yes. Blasphemous? Yes. Unbiblical? Yes.
In line with Word of Faith? Yes. In line with what Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyers, Joel Osteen, T.D. Jakes, Creflo Dollar, Paul Crouch, Kenneth Hagin, etc teach? Yes.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:25:16 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 456
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: golfjack
You see, God cannot do anything unless somebody down here asks Him. Do you have a problem with that.
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
That might be one of the craziest things I've ever heard. But I guess that explains why you don't pray that God's will be done...it appears you believe He has no will without being told what to do.
I guess the WOF God is less powerful than a genie. I mean a genie is free after 3 wishes and is no longer under control of a master. I guess us Christians down here are God's masters because He can't do anything unless we telling Him to or without our input.
< Message edited by Child4Jesus -- 11/12/2008 6:41:47 PM >
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:26:23 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5518
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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I am glad the cat out of golf's hat is out..
To say that God needs permission to do anything in His creation is a slap to His face. Blasphemous to the point where I shiver even contemplating such a belief from a self-professing Christian.
I worship the God revealed to us in Scripture - the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, the Alpha and the Omega!! The First and the Last, the Great I AM THIS IS MY KING
Not some false idol that does not exist, that must have our permission to do something, that is a cosmic gofer at the beck and call of puny sinners.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:36:43 PM
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7OFUS
Posts: 75
Joined: 11/5/2008
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quote:
I worship the God revealed to us in Scripture - the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, the Alpha and the Omega!! The First and the Last, the Great I AM THIS IS MY KING
AMEN !!!!!!!!
Thanks earthless
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:41:15 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 456
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
I worship the God revealed to us in Scripture - the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, the Alpha and the Omega!! The First and the Last, the Great I AM THIS IS MY KING
quote:
ORIGINAL: 7OFUS
AMEN !!!!!!!!
Thanks earthless
I agree 100%.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:43:30 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 1712
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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Job 6:8 - 10 (ESV) 8“Oh that I might have my request, and that God would fulfill my hope, 9 that it would please God to crush me, that he would let loose his hand and cut me off! 10 This would be my comfort; I would even exult in pain unsparing, for I have not denied the words of the Holy One.
Job 23:8 - 14 (ESV) 8 “Behold, I go forward, but he is not there, and backward, but I do not perceive him; 9on the left hand when he is working, I do not behold him; he turns to the right hand, but I do not see him.
10 But he knows the way that I take; when he has tried me, I shall come out as gold. 11My foot has held fast to his steps; I have kept his way and have not turned aside. 12I have not departed from the commandment of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my portion of food. 13But he is unchangeable, and who can turn him back? What he desires, that he does. 14For he will complete what he appoints for me, and many such things are in his mind.
2 Cor 4:7 - 12 (ESV) 7But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us. 8We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 10always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. 11For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12So death is at work in us, but life in you.
1 Cor 13:12 (ESV) 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
Because of my abusive past, I have a passion for prisoners b/c a number of them have also been abused. But I refuse to allow any of those to whom I minister to continue in a victim mentality b/c we are victors in Christ.
We will face hard times. We will face illness. We will face unjustice. But God has given us the ability to face the trials of life with His grace/mrecy.
I know that the circumstances of my life was foreknown before time. My responsibility was how I was to respond to those trials. Tried anger/bitterness/alcohol and they didn't work. Only thing that worked was Christ's death on the cross.
That death enabled me to forgive my father - he died when we were not on speaking terms - and see him as a product of his father. I refuse to be a victim of anything even when there are days like today when my entire body is hurting.
My desire is to bring healing and wholeness to those with whom I minister so they can bring healing and wholeness to those they minister. If we see healing as something for the physical body, we miss the larger picture. For those of us who struggle with an illness on earth, we must realize that God already sees us complete - body, soul, and spirit - in Christ Jesus.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:50:48 PM
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prophet
Posts: 697
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: Misty35
So, let me ask, how do you pray? When you pray for someone who is sick
I pray that God would comfort them and give them peace and if it be His will, that He would heal them.
And Kat....God's Will is written in the Bible. So many people complicate this. Its not God's Will that anyone is sick. When someone prays, I pray your Will Be Done Lord, go to the Word, and you will see what He has to say about it.
I cant say much more, Im at work.....
WOW! Heavy discussions
ITs NOT God's will that any humans go to hell.................
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:55:47 PM
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prophet
Posts: 697
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: golfjack
Some here have flunked the faith test.
Your arrogance is overflowing. This I'm sure is a violation of one of the TOS
quote:
Folks, God is shaking up the Church, and you will see better miracles than in the days of Jesus.
Peace, Golfjack
Yup...Todd Bentley and Lakeland reinforced that.
Funny though...My Bible says that in the last days there will be a "falling away"
Looks like most Fathers and Mothers of word faith have flunk!
What does that make word faith???? 
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 6:59:01 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5518
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
Status: offline
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Golfjack,
Can you please, after so many pages, finally answer two of my questions. This has to be around 8 times I have asked now.
1) Show us the biblical basis for your belief that everyone is promised physical healing in this earthly life.
&
2) Explain why we all die. Otherwise present to us people who have been alive for over 2,000 years, thank you. Explain why you get wrinkles, get headaches, get colds, get the flu, get the runs, get fat and or skinny. All a result of living in a fallen body in a fallen world.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 7:01:51 PM
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prophet
Posts: 697
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
I suffer from a progressive, incurable genetic disoder called neurofibromatosis. The disorder causes often painful tumors to grow on nerve endings and can be quite painful and, in my case, disfiguring.
I have had my full of WOF adherants such a GJ whose most painfull disorder would be a hang-nail. In addition to my disorder I have had polio and suffered physical/emotional/sexual abuse at the hands of my missionary father. Still, I would not trade any of this because it has made me into the man i am today. I am still very failable and am very much in progress.
2 Cor 12:8 - 10 (ESV) 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Collie
May the grace of God abound many times over in your life to His glory!
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 7:06:55 PM
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golfjack
Posts: 54
Joined: 10/23/2008
Status: offline
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The reason people are confused and have a prayer problem is that they have their rules and laws all mixed up together. They take rules which govern one kind of praying and try to to apply them to other kinds of praying.
One common misconception people have is they think they should conclude every prayer with the words, if it be Thy will. They claim that is how Jesus prayed. However, Jesus prayed this way on only one occasion that is recorded in Scripture. That was in the Garden of Gethsemane when He prayed the prayer of Consecration.
When they attempt to pray the prayer of faith ( the prayer of petition, the prayer to change things), they conclude it with if it be Thy will. and the prayer is hindered because they are uncertain of His will, His Word.
Someone here said that I belong to a cult and am blasphemus. What do you say to that moderator? Isn't that harassment of another believer. Or are you bias?
Peace, Golfjack
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 7:10:22 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5518
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: golfjack
Someone here said that I belong to a cult and am blasphemus. What do you say to that moderator? Isn't that harassment of another believer. Or are you bias?
Peace, Golfjack
I made those comments, Golfjack. And they were not directed to anyone by name. I am simply commenting on the realities of what Word of Faith actually is and what it promotes.
And when we have the absolute, perfect and holy Word of God, the Bible.. for all to read and know. Then it is not hard to take what anyone claims as truth and simply compare it (test it) with the mighty and powerful Word of God.
Now if you can take the time to read some of my posts, then please take the time to read my questions posed directly to you sir that you have outright ignored unabashed.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 7:11:20 PM
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prophet
Posts: 697
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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Its blasphemous to equate the Almighty to the little fallen angel...... 
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/12/2008 7:13:24 PM
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stephanos
Posts: 809
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: golfjack
The reason people are confused and have a prayer problem is that they have their rules and laws all mixed up together. They take rules which govern one kind of praying and try to to apply them to other kinds of praying.
One common misconception people have is they think they should conclude every prayer with the words, if it be Thy will. They claim that is how Jesus prayed. However, Jesus prayed this way on only one occasion that is recorded in Scripture. That was in the Garden of Gethsemane when He prayed the prayer of Consecration.
When they attempt to pray the prayer of faith ( the prayer of petition, the prayer to change things), they conclude it with if it be Thy will. and the prayer is hindered because they are uncertain of His will, His Word.
Someone here said that I belong to a cult and am blasphemus. What do you say to that moderator? Isn't that harassment of another believer. Or are you bias?
Peace, Golfjack
Its blasphemous to say God has no power on earth.
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