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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 1/14/2009 9:42:35 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1552
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: all.consuming.fire
I think I am just going to stick around this thread and continue to read it, till I am all the way finished with it. (only like half way done with it). I am finding that its helping to clear up a lot of the uncertainties in my mind as I look up scripture and see for myself what everyone is saying.
God Bless you.
ACF....Praise God for your awesome testimony! Seeing another brother/sister in the Lord get delivered from the WoF cult never gets old. It makes this all worthwhile!
I give God all the glory that we have a forum like this to shine the light of His TRUTH on those frauds who seek to pervert His Word for material gain.
I pray that you continue to seek His face and study His Word
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 1/14/2009 1:15:32 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 1613
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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The only "good" thing that comes from Myers "ministry" is her telling women to avoid the pitty-party syndrome. But this can come from any secular counselor.
I lead my church's minstry to women just entering NC's correctional system. In my teachings, I tell the women the only path to wholeness is to allow God to "cut deep" and to allow His Holy Spirit, through the Holy Scriptures, to bring healing into their lives. The following quote was a part of this week's teaching.
If we are wise, we will do what Jesus said: endure the cross and despise its shame for the joy that is set before us. To do this is to submit the whole pattern of our life to be destroyed and built again in the power of an endless life. And we shall find that it is more than poetry, more than sweet hymnody and elevated feelings. The cross will cut into our lives where it hurts worst, sparing neither us nor our carefully cultivated reputation. It will defeat us and bring our selfish life to an end.
A. W. TOZER (1897–1963)
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 1/29/2009 7:17:53 PM
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nicole6598
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Has anyone heard of Joseph Prince? A friend is raving about his book "Destined to reign" but it sounds alot like prosperity stuff to me.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 1/29/2009 10:50:14 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 1613
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MyCatSmokey2006
I don't have time to read this entire thread, but I'm wondering what is this doctrine about?
In an nutshell, Jesus's death on the cross was insufficent payment for our sins. He had to go to hell and "whip-up" on the devil.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 1/30/2009 12:26:25 AM
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nicole6598
Posts: 1688
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MyCatSmokey2006
I don't have time to read this entire thread, but I'm wondering what is this doctrine about?
Its also about how God's words are powerful and He has given us the power through our words to make things happen if we just have enough faith to believe it. So we will always be healed if we keep "positive", say positive things, rebuke those who say "well it might not be in God's will to heal" etc. Same goes for money, the "prosperity" stuff. If you give then God will give to you, the more you give, the more God will give you. God wants everyone to be healthy and wealthy and if you aren't living like that then there is something wrong.
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Proud Aussie, Wife, Mother, Woman!
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 1/30/2009 10:43:07 AM
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laura...
Posts: 3277
Joined: 3/1/2005
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I've heard a new one: A local WOF pastor gave the "offering speech" as they were preparing to pass the plate. He taught that if you don't tithe not only are you under a financial curse but you bring that curse into the church...so, if you're not going to tithe then please find another church to take your curse to.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 1/30/2009 1:07:41 PM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 2728
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
I've heard a new one: A local WOF pastor gave the "offering speech" as they were preparing to pass the plate. He taught that if you don't tithe not only are you under a financial curse but you bring that curse into the church...so, if you're not going to tithe then please find another church to take your curse to.
What a perversion.
_____________________________
rawr.ben
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 2/1/2009 12:33:58 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 671
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From: Brampton,Ontario
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nicole6598
Has anyone heard of Joseph Prince? A friend is raving about his book "Destined to reign" but it sounds alot like prosperity stuff to me.
I've listened to him a few times,he preaches about grace a lot and being a Calvinist I admire that(lol).Most charismatic(he is a charismatic) preachers turn me off because most of the ones I know off are WOF'ers but he seemed solid so I did a breif research on him and I came out with no desire to listen to him.I don't think he is particularly a WOF'er but this turned me off;
"We believe that God wants to transform, heal and prosper us, so that we can live blessed and victorious lives that will impact and help others."
That's from his website http://www.josephprince.org/aboutus/webelieve/webelieve.htm
One could interpret that differently though.I would like to know what he meant by "heal and prosper us so we can live blessed and victorious lives'
I say that because if he meant physical healing and material wealth,then the christian who doesn't have the greatest health and is poor isnt blessed and victorious in Christ?
As I said,I wont be listening to him but that's not because he is a false preacher,he seems solid but that makes me worry about him.He reminds me off John Bevere or maybe Houston(from Hillsong) in that they seem solid but some of their teachings and associations are with the WOF camp.
Sorry for the lengthy reply,I hope it helps.
_____________________________
"Peace if possible,truth at all cost"-Martin Luther
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 2/1/2009 12:39:17 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 671
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At my previous church or my family's church,2009 is said to be the "Year of Blessing" to those who go to the church according to the pastor.I guess that the church goers in the church weren't blessed before 2009.They aren't talking about spiritual blessings BTW.Doesn't Kenneth Copeland use those types of slogans as well every year?
_____________________________
"Peace if possible,truth at all cost"-Martin Luther
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 2/1/2009 1:59:46 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4161
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
At my previous church or my family's church,2009 is said to be the "Year of Blessing" to those who go to the church according to the pastor.I guess that the church goers in the church weren't blessed before 2009.They aren't talking about spiritual blessings BTW.Doesn't Kenneth Copeland use those types of slogans as well every year?
I don't know about Kenneth Copeland. However, there was a church in my city that had sort of the same slogan several years back...they were trying to relate it to being like an OT festival year. (Feast year? Can't remember the terminology off the top of my head.)
quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
"It doesn't matter if the government goes socialist. If you're a Christian, if you have real faith, you will prosper no matter what the economic system is. People will be drawn to Christianity because they see it works [financially] for us when the rest of the world's finances aren't working".
And yikes again. I've asked several WOF defenders (on here and IRL) for an explanation when it comes to impoverished and persecuted Christians in other parts of the world. On here, I've been ignored. IRL, I've heard a lot of stammering except one woman I know said it was just an indication of how much favor the US has found from God. I had to laugh.
< Message edited by stellaluna -- 2/1/2009 2:07:06 PM >
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 2/1/2009 2:42:41 PM
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lw9
Posts: 879
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
"It doesn't matter if the government goes socialist. If you're a Christian, if you have real faith, you will prosper no matter what the economic system is. People will be drawn to Christianity because they see it works [financially] for us when the rest of the world's finances aren't working".
Yes, forget about being drawn to Christ through the gospel message and suffering because of one's faith. For these groups, it's all about the earthly rewards and how to get ahead in life. That is the core of their 'faith'.
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 3/11/2009 7:51:57 AM
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KingJamesBond
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I see I have a lot of catching up to do on reading about this topic on this thread....LOL
From what I have read so far I think the strange concepts that WOF has is pretty easy to see.
KJB
_____________________________
Vote out Socialism/Communism and modern day "Robbing Hoods".
Constitutional principles like those found in the Constitution Party will help to build a "Constitutional" Republican Party.
http://www.constitutionparty.com/
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 3/11/2009 8:18:28 AM
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KingJamesBond
Posts: 3711
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figmentPez,
quote:
1. "Faith" is a power that is put into action by "faith filled words". "Faith" is the source of all power, including God's, and even He is bound by the laws of how "faith" works.
2. Everyone can make things happen by speaking words with enough "faith". God created everything by His "faith". Christians can make good things (or bad things) happen to themselves by "faith". Even pagans like witches work by "faith", as witchcraft is just "faith filled words" in action.
3. Healing, prosperity and more can be had by Christians, immediately and always, when they speak words with enough "faith" behind them. Similarly, sickness, poverty and more will, immediately and always, be caused by any "negative confessions" spoken by anyone, even in jest.
4. Sickness is caused by sin, lack of "faith" and/or negative confessions, but always by the devil/demons as a result of the former.
5. Prayer that "God's will be done" is a lack of "faith", as all Christians should know what God's will is, especially with regards to healing, prosperity and other positive things that are always God's will for the here and now.
6. Positive confessions must always be made, even when they don't appear to be true. Saying that someone's leg is broken is a "negative confession" that lacks "faith" and instead a WOF believer should say that "God has already healed their leg" if they want the leg to be healed.
7. Words are so powerful that even God's plans can be thwarted by a human speaking words with enough "faith". The evidence given for this is Luke 1:5-25 where Zechariah is made mute because He didn't believe God's messenger. WOF says that if Zechariah had been allowed to speak, his words would have kept God's plan from happening.
Their basics seem to be focused on the power of man to move God.
I dont know how many WOF flocks over the years that I have seen wearing glasses in the crowd. I suppose those would be considered the faithless.
How would they explain when an infant is sick and has no will of faith in the matter? I guess the infant is just in the hands of God?
I have always thought that when Jesus told people the following it was in regard to teaching people just how much faith they do not actually have,
And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.
When it was claimed "Daughter, your faith has healed you, go in peace." do you think that was in reference to the object of her faith.......Jesus Christ?
Take care,
KJB
_____________________________
Vote out Socialism/Communism and modern day "Robbing Hoods".
Constitutional principles like those found in the Constitution Party will help to build a "Constitutional" Republican Party.
http://www.constitutionparty.com/
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 3/11/2009 8:32:33 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2689
Joined: 2/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
I see I have a lot of catching up to do on reading about this topic on this thread....LOL
From what I have read so far I think the strange concepts that WOF has is pretty easy to see.
KJB
Yeah, now you can catch up on all these other threads, now that our regular thread is shutdown for a season.
And, to stay on topic, yes, WOF is strange.
_____________________________
God uses our bad will to accomplish His good will. - R.C. Sproul
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 3/11/2009 8:53:47 PM
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KingJamesBond
Posts: 3711
Joined: 12/2/2006
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TheosCentric,
quote:
Yeah, now you can catch up on all these other threads, now that our regular thread is shutdown for a season.
And, to stay on topic, yes, WOF is strange.
So much catching up to do for a teeny mind like mine might take years.......I have a hard enough time keeping up with the one thread at one time......LOL
Check this out;
The Word of Faith teaches that complete healing (Spirit, Soul, and Body) is included in Christ's atonement, and therefore is available here and now to all who believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Faith#Healing
John Osteen was a Word of Faith pastor and look at this;
"Osteen himself developed a number of medical problems (including heart disease) and died of a heart attack in 1999 at the age of 73, despite declaring himself healed to his congregation and declaring that God had told him he would be preaching into his 90's."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Faith#Healing
It is strange to think that the human mind can be so tricked into believing things that are so untrue.
Think about it......we are told about a man (Osteen) with heart problems and as he watched his own body get older and older along with the millions of other human beings on this planet that follow the same exact trail making their way into the same decay and eventual destruction (back to dust) that all bodies do.......he simply denies all the facts and acts as if everything is a-ok and his body is healed.
It baffles my mind that people could be in such "un-reality' and still think it is all so "real".
Its like someone standing in front of a congregation and claiming to them all that they are a "jet engine" or something. They all just focus their minds and believe it to be true even though it is so unbelievable. It is as if they seem to think in their minds if they believe it enough.........it is true.
What is it......mind power?
KJB
_____________________________
Vote out Socialism/Communism and modern day "Robbing Hoods".
Constitutional principles like those found in the Constitution Party will help to build a "Constitutional" Republican Party.
http://www.constitutionparty.com/
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2009 10:05:39 AM
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laura...
Posts: 3277
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
Status: offline
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quote:
Think about it......we are told about a man (Osteen) with heart problems and as he watched his own body get older and older along with the millions of other human beings on this planet that follow the same exact trail making their way into the same decay and eventual destruction (back to dust) that all bodies do.......he simply denies all the facts and acts as if everything is a-ok and his body is healed.
It baffles my mind that people could be in such "un-reality' and still think it is all so "real".
Its like someone standing in front of a congregation and claiming to them all that they are a "jet engine" or something. They all just focus their minds and believe it to be true even though it is so unbelievable. It is as if they seem to think in their minds if they believe it enough.........it is true.
That is the crux of Word of Faith. They have to believe the impossible to believe in order to receive. When the questions or the doubts come they have to force themselves not to acknowledge them or they will be lacking the necessary faith.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2009 2:26:22 PM
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WOFman
Posts: 33
Joined: 4/18/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
Discuss the dangers and issues surrounding the teachings and the leaders.
I would much prefer to discuss the dangers and issues with the evangelical church. It is disturbing how the so called mainline churches today are falling into the liberal mindset. They have become a shell of Christianity. They are nothing more than social clubs. There are more and more of the so-called mainline denominations that are embracing universalism and allowing the world to creep in. They are also endorsing the homosexual lifestyle as an alternative lifestyle.
Are there issues in the Word of Faith camp, yes! But it is no worse that what is going on in the rest of the church.
_____________________________
My Webpage
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I am the Charismatic your mama warned you about!
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2009 2:34:10 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 2341
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
I would much prefer to discuss the dangers and issues with the evangelical church. It is disturbing how the so called mainline churches today are falling into the liberal mindset. They have become a shell of Christianity. They are nothing more than social clubs. There are more and more of the so-called mainline denominations that are embracing universalism and allowing the world to creep in. They are also endorsing the homosexual lifestyle as an alternative lifestyle.
Can you give specific examples from local congregations where these things are being taught?
_____________________________
"To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea."
-G. K. Chesterton
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This is what he said: 
Those North Korean Christians who are starving or dying in work camps don't qualify as "real Christians" or else they'd be financially prospering under their nutter of a dictator and his oppressive government. 
