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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 6/12/2009 4:22:37 PM
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charityrose
Posts: 58
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Maryland
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I don’t think I was ever completely WOF, but for a short while I did subscribe to some of that rhetoric. I never lost total hold on The Truth, but I got caught up in a bit of the hype for a while. There wasn’t anything any person did that made me see the light. Being presented with the Truth of The Word of God; in a non-confrontational manner; is what opened my eyes. I got tired of the hoopla. How many times can you hear a prosperity message, be told to give $100.00 and you’ll get a check in the mail in 7 days, have it not happen and keep believing it? Since most (I say most because I don’t know all of it) WOF teaching doesn’t hold any water, it soon wears off and the attraction is lost. Once that’s lost, anyone who ever had a real relationship with Jesus will return to their First Love.
Basically, I realized one day that the “WOW” stuff wasn’t happening, but when I was following basic Biblical principles, I was doing okay.
Plus, when some of the WOF teachers you LOVE start doing crazy, blatantly ungodly things, it’s a MAJOR turn-off.
_____________________________
Stay with me and I'm going to bless you.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 6/12/2009 4:59:23 PM
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dwtramm
Posts: 401
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
I did not come from WOF, but I have spoken to many and and have some in my family. I have found the best thing to do, if possible, is to sit down with them and go over the scriptures they use. I ask them why the verses around the verse(s) they are using don't fit with what they are saying, mostly. Context kills 99.999% of their stance. It is then up to them to do whatever they will with it.
If the discussion becomes heated I back off or drop it.
And a lot of prayer.
I was at one time WOF, and I do agree that this is one way, among others that it good.
Please though be in prayer when approaching someone who is WOF, asking the Holy Spirit to give you what to say and opening up their understanding.
Do your best not to come across as arrogant (remember, many within this movement truly love the Lord, having a superior attitude does not work).
Ask the Lord to help you be tough skinned. Many when exposed to the truth will at first lash out in personal attacks. I struggle in this area quite frankly. When I saw the light, I expected everyone to see the light as well, when they lashed out over my over zealous attitude, it hurt. Just two days ago I was visiting with a WOF family member. She truly loves the Lord. She was going on and on how the Holy Spirit as told her this and that. I felt is was a good opportunity to bring up the authority of Scripture. I asked her what authority she uses to judge what she feels is spoken too her. I was basically bar-b-qued by her angry words (which is okay, I like bar-b-que!). One of the things she said that stuck with me was, "The Lord can speak too your heart, not just through some big black book!" It hurt me that she didn't see how what see said was dishonoring the Word of God.
One main point, always, always, always show them Scripture and the context it was written in. No matter their argument, stand on it....period.
Continue to pray; continue to love them enough to speak the truth in love to them; and try share with them in a spirit of gentleness, not coming across as arrogant or superior.
That's all I have for now, I guess.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 6/12/2009 8:50:22 PM
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ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1373
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: Los Angeles
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quote:
I did not come from WOF, but I have spoken to many and and have some in my family. I have found the best thing to do, if possible, is to sit down with them and go over the scriptures they use. I ask them why the verses around the verse(s) they are using don't fit with what they are saying, mostly. Context kills 99.999% of their stance. It is then up to them to do whatever they will with it.
If the discussion becomes heated I back off or drop it.
And a lot of prayer.
I couldn't have stated it better. Thank you, Bro_Shane.
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 6/13/2009 3:35:05 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 690
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
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Crankius
quote:
What was most helpful for you in getting out?
Reading the scriptures,prayer and biblical preachers like John Macarthur,Paul Washer,Spurgeon and etc..
quote:
Did you read the Word, read a book, or did someone talk with you?
Yeah I read the bible,and read this thread.
As Bro.shane said,we must go through scripture with them.
I was never a fan of these fals teachers but my church at the time was very much influenced by them.I had no idea how unbiblical my church was though,I think many of those who follow their teachings are not aware of a lot of their false teachings.
_____________________________
"Peace if possible,truth at all cost"-Martin Luther
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 12:12:28 AM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 2667
Joined: 5/16/2005
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Crankius,
I don't think you have to start off with hard-nosed apologetics.
Find works that simply resemble God's Truth, and let Truth begin to expose the darkness. I am sure there are a lot of posters who can recommend a lot of books that will point people towards Truth, without having to attack lies straight up. As truth begins to penetrate their heart, they will be ready to handle "meatier" works.
_____________________________
rawr.ben
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 8:16:13 AM
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dwtramm
Posts: 401
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
Crankius,
I don't think you have to start off with hard-nosed apologetics.
Find works that simply resemble God's Truth, and let Truth begin to expose the darkness. I am sure there are a lot of posters who can recommend a lot of books that will point people towards Truth, without having to attack lies straight up. As truth begins to penetrate their heart, they will be ready to handle "meatier" works.
I'm starting out by asking a fairly innocent question. I have opened the door by asking her about her church--I asked her if she believes the WOF teachings of her church.
I will have to wait and see just where God wants this discussion to go.
I'm interested in books if anyone wants to recommend them.
Obviously Christianity in Crisis would be a good book, but more than likely it will make them angry. I know when I was WOF I tried reading it, and it made me furious! I didn't finish it.
But after taking quite a while to settle down, and through Scripture I started seeing some of the things that Hank was addressing. So in essence, I feel that Hank's book did plant a seed to get me into Scripture once I eventually let go of my anger over its writing.
Picked it up again around a year or so ago and tried reading it. Again, I couldn't finish it. Not because I was angry at what Hank was exposing, but because it was stressing me that I used to believe a lot of the stuff he mentioned, and listened to many of the people he exposed.
Maybe one day I can actually read the book cover to cover and not get so emotional about it either way.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 9:19:55 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5518
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
Status: offline
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dwtramm,
CRI just released a new/updated version of 'Christianity in Crisis', that include some of the newer players in the Word of Faith circuit. Individuals such as Joel Osteen, Todd Bentley, Creflo Dollar, etc..
You can also get an accompanying CD of the audio clips of their statements, claims, failed prophecies.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 6/15/2009 11:31:33 AM
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dwtramm
Posts: 401
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
dwtramm,
CRI just released a new/updated version of 'Christianity in Crisis', that include some of the newer players in the Word of Faith circuit. Individuals such as Joel Osteen, Todd Bentley, Creflo Dollar, etc..
You can also get an accompanying CD of the audio clips of their statements, claims, failed prophecies.
Yeah, I saw that, it is on my list of things to get. I just haven't made up my mind yet to get the book, or the audio cd or both. Thanks for the info.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 6/17/2009 1:51:28 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 690
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
Thanks Sammy for answering.
I don't think my SIL would read John MacArthur, Paul Washer, or Spurgeon.
I've opened the door with her, and now I just have to wait and see if she is open to discussing. She is very immersed in WOF, so she might not respond. I'm praying that this is in God's timing.
How did you start reading those authors? I don't think most WOF followers read their books.
It all started with Paul Washer,I heard about his "shocking sermon" online,I started studying theology on my own and through that I learned about the MacArthurs and Spurgeons...
That is how I came to to understand the false teachings of the WOF..But I do not expect everyone to follow the same road.
Prayer and teaching on how to properly interpret scripture(context and etc) are not terrible way of starting.
_____________________________
"Peace if possible,truth at all cost"-Martin Luther
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 6/23/2009 3:50:03 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5591
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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I've ventured to read the last page.
I think that once we "totally" and "completely"
get WOF out of our being, we find there are
very, very few books in the [Bible Book Store]
to purchase any more. I used to drive a hundred
miles to the nearest large city (Tulsa, OK) and
could never resist spending hours in Mardell's.
But now I drive right by them and don't think a
thing about it, except for the thousands of dollars
I wasted on the latest "blab-it, grap-it" formula books.
I find myself content in whatever state I find myself in
knowing that all my needs are met according to His riches
in glory. And not the way the WOF twisted those verses.
But in faith that our Heavenly Father takes care of any and
all situations. I don't have to play the WOF Lottery any more.
And I no longer can watch "christian" television any more.
And I find myself turning "christian" radio to other stations
and then come back to see if some of "those" songs are gone.
But, just a clean simple holy life is all we need.
I don't have to display my faith by my so-called wealth.
It can be seen in my eyes, heard in my words, and felt in my
presence. The greatest wealth is when those who don't know
you say, "You're a Christian, aren't you?"
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 7/5/2009 4:01:52 AM
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ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1373
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: Los Angeles
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So, I'm up late and just turned to a church channel called WHT. There is a show on called 'The Harvest Show.' Unbelievable to watch, yet I just can turn the channel. This guy that is on is telling people to 'send a battle seed!' He is telling people to use their credit cards! Yes, call now, use your credit cards to plant a seed ~ a battle seed of $200!!
He reads from numerous cards from the people who have called in and, guess what, used their credit cards as he has told them to do!! Unbelievable...
Oh, wait, now he's praying that their seeds will be blessed...their 'seeds of wisdom...'
Oy vey!!
I guess he missed the scripture in Romans 13:8; "Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another..."
Card after card after card of people who have called in; some sowing $200 while a few are sowing thousands...Gee, I'm in the wrong business... 
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 7/5/2009 10:13:03 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 2377
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
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A long long time ago, Jesus preached the parable of the sower.
And televangelists have been giving seeds a bad name ever since.
_____________________________
Moodyvision - my YouTube channel
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 9/9/2009 1:00:50 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5591
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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From another thread............
quote:
quote:
I absolutely LOVED Joyce Meyer! But God had other plans for me. I was DEEP into the Word of Faith . It was all I had ever known all my life. My grandmother latched onto the seed faith teachings of Oral Roberts back when it first came out. She taught my mother in the ways of the WoF, and my mother in turn taught us the same way!
I grew up thanking God for being numbered among those who knew the “truth!” Needless to say, I naturally equated the WoF to be the one and only WILL OF GOD, and anyone who believed otherwise was deceived and damned to hell! That being the case, I grew up feeling at one with all the T.V. ministers. I loved them ALL! As a young boy, I read Copeland’s “The Laws of Prosperity” and I was determined to make those laws work … after all they are LAWS and even God must abide by them!
But taking an honest look back over the past 30 years, I had to admit that they never worked for me. I grew up into my 40’s all along thinking there was something wrong with me. I would actually look at a mustard seed in the spice rack and wonder why my faith was so much smaller that that and didn’t work. Then I would get depressed because my faith was so much tinier than that mustard seed that God wouldn’t honor it.
I felt rejected by God. Sometimes that feeling of rejection made me angry at Him and there were times I actually told Him that he was a liar! That He WAS a respecter of persons; that He showed favoritism, and that He didn’t love me, even though I was doing everything I knew to do to keep with “His” teachings as I was taught them!
LINK
________________________
< Message edited by Lapidoth -- 9/9/2009 1:10:34 PM >
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 9/9/2009 1:48:45 PM
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laura...
Posts: 3394
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
From another thread............
quote:
quote:
I absolutely LOVED Joyce Meyer! But God had other plans for me. I was DEEP into the Word of Faith . It was all I had ever known all my life. My grandmother latched onto the seed faith teachings of Oral Roberts back when it first came out. She taught my mother in the ways of the WoF, and my mother in turn taught us the same way!
I grew up thanking God for being numbered among those who knew the “truth!” Needless to say, I naturally equated the WoF to be the one and only WILL OF GOD, and anyone who believed otherwise was deceived and damned to hell! That being the case, I grew up feeling at one with all the T.V. ministers. I loved them ALL! As a young boy, I read Copeland’s “The Laws of Prosperity” and I was determined to make those laws work … after all they are LAWS and even God must abide by them!
But taking an honest look back over the past 30 years, I had to admit that they never worked for me. I grew up into my 40’s all along thinking there was something wrong with me. I would actually look at a mustard seed in the spice rack and wonder why my faith was so much smaller that that and didn’t work. Then I would get depressed because my faith was so much tinier than that mustard seed that God wouldn’t honor it.
I felt rejected by God. Sometimes that feeling of rejection made me angry at Him and there were times I actually told Him that he was a liar! That He WAS a respecter of persons; that He showed favoritism, and that He didn’t love me, even though I was doing everything I knew to do to keep with “His” teachings as I was taught them!
LINK
________________________
Great link.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 9/11/2009 4:58:51 PM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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One wheelchair-bound man in the front row wept and writhed while waiting to be made whole. Though ministry staff prayed....
A mother wept, her son laying in her arms with a severe case of Down syndrome. Though ministry officials whispered in her ear....
God would have acted, and could have acted, ministry staff said on Sunday night, but the infirm must first muster the faith requisite to welcome God's power into their lives.
Story here
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Blog
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 9/11/2009 7:14:16 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4177
Joined: 4/11/2005
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That's sick.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 9/11/2009 11:23:30 PM
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ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1373
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
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quote:
God would have acted, and could have acted, ministry staff said on Sunday night, but the infirm must first muster the faith requisite to welcome God's power into their lives.
They always say that as an escape route...truly sad.
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 9/12/2009 7:02:46 AM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
That's sick.
Yes it is.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ironsharpensiron
quote:
God would have acted, and could have acted, ministry staff said on Sunday night, but the infirm must first muster the faith requisite to welcome God's power into their lives.
They always say that as an escape route...truly sad.
Matthew
Look at how this false teaching of word of faith is dominating the South Korean church in the story, and they are taking that teaching to Israel --- who politely welcomes the people and the tourism dollars, well enough, but what a shame that this WoF is something that is seen in the name of Jesus.
How many times do we see people ask, "Well what is it hurting? Can't people just believe what they want to believe?" This would be an example, another of many examples, of how people are wracked with pain and told it's their fault, and how on such a prominent platform the name of Christ is set up to be mocked because of the phony stuff going on.
_____________________________
Blog
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 9/12/2009 11:46:38 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 690
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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I have been writing a series of notes on facebook about the WOF movement,it is shocking how many professing Christians lack discernment.
_____________________________
"Peace if possible,truth at all cost"-Martin Luther
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