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Rockrz -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (8/28/2005 12:20:32 AM)

Some major religions of the world also say you should take a vow of poverty, just like mainstream Christianity teaches.

So, you really think God wants us broke, sick, and barely able to live?
And on top of putting up with all this we are supposed to go out and preach the Gospel and tell folks to come join us?



transformedmind -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (10/24/2005 3:41:28 PM)

My post "Not to Confess" was incorporated into this one-stop thread when I was about to elaborate on it. I am posting my 2nd post here.

A Few Common Thoughts
By Transformed mind

Let’s play out a few common thoughts. I would end up not confessing these thoughts. They will lead me to sin.

1. I can’t go through this lack of vehicle going to work…
God: it’s not my will that the family has a second car.

Persisting in this state on mind will lead you to sin. It’s better to confess your trust in God to do what’s best.

2. My life’s a mess. Why did John left me with these 5 children to feed…
God: Didn’t I tell you I would not forsake you.

Persisting on these thoughts may lead you to marry or do anything drastic. You’ll be getting out of God’s guidance and protection.

3. I can’t save my friend…he’s too into other things.

Jesus Christ: You of little faith. Didn’t I tell you my Spirit does the saving, not you.

Persisting on this thought will leave you with just a friend (or may be not), but Jesus Christ is disappointed. Lack of faith may lead you to compromises.

4. I can’t have this baby…I can’t feed him, let alone myself.

God: I will send someone to talk you out of these thoughts. I love you and your unborn child..

The young woman doesn’t hear God. A sin is about to be committed.

You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that
by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures
that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have
life. John 5:39-40

We often misread the Scriptures because of our natural desires—and the devil exploits them that we fail to live by them. Let us not confess lack, defeat or doubt. We have the Word of God that these common things we worry about have been taken cared of. It’s not our effort to go over these trials, troubles, sufferings, or lack. It is God’s. Our best efforts are futile. Let’s put our faith and trust in God. He’ll work everything out for our good. Didn’t Jesus Christ say, “I have come that they may have an abundant life.”



Child4Jesus -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (10/24/2005 4:03:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rockrz
Some major religions of the world also say you should take a vow of poverty, just like mainstream Christianity teaches.

So, you really think God wants us broke, sick, and barely able to live? And on top of putting up with all this we are supposed to go out and preach the Gospel and tell folks to come join us?


I didn't see anyone say anything about taking a vow of poverty. Also mainstream Christianity doesn't teach that anyone should take a vow of poverty. Someone can do that if they want to and if God calls them to do that.

Also no one said or is saying God wants us broke, sick, and barely able to live. But guess what? People go thru that at times and God wants those who experience that to be content. In fact he wants us to be content in all situations. Our situations shouldn't prevent us from preaching the Gospel. People put up with sickness like cancer and still preach the gospel. People put up with not have much money but live within his/her/their means. They preach the Gospel still. We don't only preach the gospel when all is well in our eyes. We don't only preach the Gospel when we are healthy, wealthy, and all is going well.

Note: More often than not people are broke because they are living beyond what they can afford. They borrow and stay in debt a very long time. They try to keep up with the Joneses cause you know, Christians are suppose to have the best of everything. Biggest houses, best and fastest cars, never getting sick, etc.

This entitlement mentality that Christians have has to stop.



Child4Jesus -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/7/2005 6:01:20 PM)

thewindsup,

Elsewhere you posted:

quote:

Statement of Faith

We believe in one God-Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Creator of all things.

We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, was buried, was resurrected, ascended into heaven, and is now seated at the right hand of God the Father and is true God and true man.

We believe the Bible in its entirety to be the inspired Word of God and the infallible rule of faith and conduct.

We believe in the resurrection of the dead, the eternal happiness of the saved, and the eternal punishment of the lost.

We believe in personal salvation of believers through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

We believe in sanctification through the Word of God and by the Holy Spirit, and we believe in personal holiness, purity of heart and life.

We believe in divine healing, through faith in the Name of Jesus Christ, and that healing is included in the Redemption.

We believe in water baptism, in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as distinct from the New Birth, in speaking with tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance (Acts 2:4), in the gifts of the Spirit, and the evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. We believe that all of these are available to believers.

We believe in the Christian's hope-the soon-coming, personal return of the Lord Jesus Christ.


It would be all good if KC actually stuck to this:

Word of Faith

The Word Faith basically teaches the following, although not all Word Faith teachers are unified in all that they believe: Christians are little gods. Jesus did not pay for our sins on the cross but he had to finish the job of atonement in hell. We can command God by our words and God wants us healthy and wealthy. If Christians are not healthy and wealthy it is because of our lack of faith and/or knowledge. Christians have total control over their environment by the words that we speak, if we speak sickness and poverty we will be sick and broke. Conversely, if Christians speak blessings and healing we will be healthy and wealthy.

The major tenets of the Word of Faith movement betray the fact that it is in opposition to mainstream, evangelical Christianity. It asserts that God created human beings in “God’s class” as “little gods.” Before the fall, humans had the potential to exercise a “God kind of faith” and could call things into existence. Humans took on Satan’s nature by rebelling against God in the Garden of Eden, thus losing the ability to call things into existence. In order to correct this situation, Jesus Christ became a man, died spiritually (taking Satan’s nature upon Himself), went to hell, was “born again,” and rose from the dead with God's nature. After this, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to duplicate the Incarnation in believers so they might fulfill their calling to be little gods. It follows, then, that those who have had the Incarnation duplicated in them by the Holy Spirit (thus giving them the ability to exercise the “God kind of faith”) should be successful in every area of their lives. Furthermore, hardships like indebtedness, illness, and even being left by one’s spouse show lack of faith because these problems should be eliminated by “claiming” God’s promises. While certain details of the above outlined doctrine vary from teacher to teacher, the general outline remains the same.

Kenneth Copeland:

"Jesus went into hell to free mankind from the penalty of Adam's high treason...When His blood poured out it did not atone. Jesus spent three horrible days and nights in the bowels of this earth getting back for you and me our rights with God." (Ken Copeland, Personal letter from Ken Copeland, Ft. Worth Texas, March 12, 1979. (D. R. McConnell, A Different Gospel, page 118)

What does scripture say?

Romans 5:8-10
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

"The Spirit of God spoke to me and He said, 'Son, realize this. Now follow me in this and don't let your tradition trip you up.' He said, 'Think this way - a twice-born man whipped Satan in his own domain.' And I threw my Bible down...like that. I said, 'What?' He said, 'A born-again man defeated Satan, the firstborn of many brethren defeated him.' He said, 'You are the very image, the very copy of that one.' I said, 'Goodness, gracious sakes alive!' And I began to see what had gone on in there, and I said, 'Well now you don't mean, you couldn't dare mean, that I could have done the same thing?' He said, 'Oh yeah, if you'd had the knowledge of the Word of God that He did, you could have done the same thing, 'cause you're a reborn man too."
(Dr. John MacArthur, "Charismatic Chaos," page 337. Kenneth Copeland, "Substitution and Identification")

Where does the Bible say that Jesus is born-again? Where is it even implied?

Look what he even goes on to say? That he, Kenneth Copeland, could have done the same thing. So as long as a person is born-again they could have died on the Cross for mankind?

Yikes is all I can say. I mean people see and hear this garbage and still learn[/] (I use learn every every loosely) under this man.

"God's on the outside looking in. He doesn't have any legal entree into the earth. The thing don't belong to Him. You see how sassy the Devil was in the presence of God in the book of Job? God said, 'Where have you been?' Wasn't any of God's business. He [Satan] didn't even have to answer if he didn't want to."
(Hank Hanegraaff, "Christianity in Crisis" page 488. Ken Copeland, "Image of God in You III," Video tape #01-1403)

Doesn't the Bible say that God own's everything?

1 Corinthians 10:26 (New American Standard Bible)
26 FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS.

Psalm 24:1 (New American Standard Bible)
1 The earth is the LORD'S, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.

"I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is...The biggest one in the whole Bible is God...I mean, He lost His top-ranking, most anointed angel; the first man He ever created; the first woman He ever created; the whole earth and all the fullness therein; a third of the angels, at least - that's a big loss, man....Now, the reason you don't think of God as a failure is He never said He's a failure. And you're not a failure till you say you're one." (Ken Copeland, Audio-Clip "Christianity in Crisis," Hank Hanegraaff)

"Now here's the part I want you to get. When He said, "It is finished," on that cross he was not speaking of the plan of redemption -- the plan of redemption had just begun. There were still three days and three nights to be gone through before He went to the throne."(Ken Copeland, "What Happened From The Cross To The Throne." The atonement of christ and the “faith” message, Christian Research Institute)

The Bibile says we are redeemed by Christ Blood.

Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.

"Notice it doesn't say [Genesis 1:27-28] man was created almost in the image of God. It says man was created exactly like God--he was the fullness of God. Adam did not fall short in any area in his likeness of God. He had the very creative power of God in him and on him...One man, filled with the fullness of God, was commissioned and empowered by God to take dominion over the earth and bless it...This man--created in the image of God, like Him in every way..."
(Kenneth Copeland, "Fullness: God's Plan For His Family," BVOV Magazine, July & August 2004, page 34)

"It wasn't a physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin...anybody can do that."
(Kenneth Copeland, Audio-Clip "Christianity in Crisis," Hank Hanegraaff)

"He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer."

(Kenneth Copeland, "The Price of It All," page 3. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE FAITH MOVEMENT?" Christian Research Institute)



thewindsup -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/8/2005 11:31:38 PM)

I have never heard this taught and I dont know if it is still being taught. Also, I dont know if you are only posting portions of what was said that do not fully explain what was actually being taught.

I do know that his ministry as well as others you have labled as WOF has had wonderful fruit (all done in the name of JESUS) for many, many years, salvation, healing, baptism in Spirit, many lives changed and drawn closer to God. I also see the fruit of Godly character demonstrated for many years, not just miracles without a personal relationship with Jesus.



stateofgrace -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/9/2005 8:19:38 AM)

thewindsup, what is "wonderful fruit"? Numbers of followers? Material prosperity? By that measurement, many cults and non Christian groups have had "wonderful fruit" as well.

Folks can accept Christ, and still become immersed in false teaching. Happened with a number of cults in this country from the 1970s through the 1990s.



Justifiedbyfaith -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/9/2005 10:49:35 AM)

My family and I were invited by friends to thier church last Sunday. We fellowship at a Calvary Chapel for the past 5 years in a old rented building with about 30 people in this body of believers. As we pulled up to this place it looked like a huge glass shopping mall.
There were people in orange directing traffic and pointing us to areas to park. As we got out and came into the building I had a sense of commercialism at the onset. There were posters and plants and tables with books and people all dressed up with thier Sunday faces. I saw multy millions of dollars spent on this building. As we entered the Sanctuary thier was seating for thousands. A brightly dressed worship team began an incredible act on stage. They sang the usual 2 sentances sung 11 times type of songs with lights flashing and clothing sparkling. I looked at my wife as to ask, "Are we in Church or a broadway musical?" After about 30 minutes of this display of self adoration the Pastor came up to the podium and placed his Bible on the glass looking podium. His message was 1 hour long. He spoke about tithing and giving 20% of the time and 79 1/2% of the message was 1 liner jokes that kept everyone laughing. Big white buckets were passed around to keep the lights on in this place I'm sure. He plugged several people and mentioned thier good deeds and everyone clapped. When it was over my wife and I looked and each other feeling empty and anorexic of God's Word. The last 1/2% of his message was a quote out of his bible with 1 verse out of Luke from Jesus about giving.

...as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word that you may grow thereby... 1Pet 2:2

There were over 1000 people there...starved to death.



Soxfan -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/9/2005 11:10:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justifiedbyfaith

My family and I were invited by friends to thier church last Sunday. We fellowship at a Calvary Chapel for the past 5 years in a old rented building with about 30 people in this body of believers. As we pulled up to this place it looked like a huge glass shopping mall.
There were people in orange directing traffic and pointing us to areas to park. As we got out and came into the building I had a sense of commercialism at the onset. There were posters and plants and tables with books and people all dressed up with thier Sunday faces. I saw multy millions of dollars spent on this building. As we entered the Sanctuary thier was seating for thousands. A brightly dressed worship team began an incredible act on stage. They sang the usual 2 sentances sung 11 times type of songs with lights flashing and clothing sparkling. I looked at my wife as to ask, "Are we in Church or a broadway musical?" After about 30 minutes of this display of self adoration the Pastor came up to the podium and placed his Bible on the glass looking podium. His message was 1 hour long. He spoke about tithing and giving 20% of the time and 79 1/2% of the message was 1 liner jokes that kept everyone laughing. Big white buckets were passed around to keep the lights on in this place I'm sure. He plugged several people and mentioned thier good deeds and everyone clapped. When it was over my wife and I looked and each other feeling empty and anorexic of God's Word. The last 1/2% of his message was a quote out of his bible with 1 verse out of Luke from Jesus about giving.

...as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word that you may grow thereby... 1Pet 2:2

There were over 1000 people there...starved to death.



Wow, sounds like you went to Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church.



thewindsup -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/9/2005 9:16:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stateofgrace

thewindsup, what is "wonderful fruit"? Numbers of followers? Material prosperity? By that measurement, many cults and non Christian groups have had "wonderful fruit" as well.

Folks can accept Christ, and still become immersed in false teaching. Happened with a number of cults in this country from the 1970s through the 1990s.


Appearantly you didnt read my post very well, because I give specific examples of the fruit as many years of people receving "salvation, healing, baptism in Spirit, many lives changed and drawn closer to God." So, you can quit giving ridiculous examples about cults and satanic worhipers. Not that cults dont exist, but it is ridiculous because cults do not have many years of people receving "salvation, healing, baptism in Spirit, many lives changed and drawn closer to God." Also, you continue to ignore/deny the many personal testimonies of healing already posted.



colliefan -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/9/2005 10:18:51 PM)

Jesus also said that many would cast out demons and prophecy in His name yet said that He never had a personal relationship with them.



figmentPez -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/9/2005 11:10:08 PM)

quote:

Appearantly you didnt read my post very well, because I give specific examples of the fruit as many years of people receving "salvation, healing, baptism in Spirit, many lives changed and drawn closer to God." So, you can quit giving ridiculous examples about cults and satanic worhipers. Not that cults dont exist, but it is ridiculous because cults do not have many years of people receving "salvation, healing, baptism in Spirit, many lives changed and drawn closer to God." Also, you continue to ignore/deny the many personal testimonies of healing already posted.


Unless I'm mistaken, the Mormons claim all of those things but are none-the-less a cult. They claim that they provide salvation, miracle healings, something they call the "holy spirit" and they definitely have changed many many lives, people who were drawn closer to a "god". They are a huge organization, which is rapidly growing. Many people are decieved by them and think they're bearing good fruit because of their numbers and their good works. However, they are false teachers and are anti-Christ.



thewindsup -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/10/2005 6:24:33 AM)

Again, a ridiculous comparison, because the mormons deny the deity of Christ. Please do not confuse a Word of Faith message with a cult because it does not deny the deity of Christ.



Soxfan -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/10/2005 8:42:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewindsup

Again, a ridiculous comparison, because the mormons deny the deity of Christ. Please do not confuse a Word of Faith message with a cult because it does not deny the deity of Christ.


They come pretty close! Many discernement and apologetic ministries now consider WoF theology cultic.

1. They teach that Christ's work was not finished on the cross.
2. They also teach that Jesus was not fully God through his whole life.

Both heresies are supported and taught by WoF teachers such as:
Kenneth Copeland
Joyce Meyer
Creflo Dollar
Rod Parsley
Joel Osteen
Jesse Duplantis

To me, that's pretty close to denying His deity! [:'(]



Bro_Shane -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/10/2005 9:16:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewindsup

Again, a ridiculous comparison, because the mormons deny the deity of Christ. Please do not confuse a Word of Faith message with a cult because it does not deny the deity of Christ.


As Soxfan has pointed out, they teach things about Christ that are not true. So I'll go one step further and say that if a person denies Christ as He is presented to us in scripture, then that person is denying the deity of Christ.

To deny that the work of the cross was not finished and complete is to show two things:

1. God is a liar of epic proportions
2. Christ was not able to do what He said He came to do

Both of these things would show that neither the Father nor the Son is perfect, thus they could not be God.

Anyone that teaches these things has no business in a pulpit or in a teaching situation.



Child4Jesus -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/10/2005 11:29:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewindsup
Again, a ridiculous comparison, because the mormons deny the deity of Christ. Please do not confuse a Word of Faith message with a cult because it does not deny the deity of Christ.


It however teaches a different Jesus.

Born-again Jesus = Different Jesus
Atonement in Hell = Different Jesus
Just an anointed man who grew into Godhood = Different Jesus

Some even go as far as to say that if you don't believe that the atonement took place in hell you aren't going to heaven. That is a different Jesus.



figmentPez -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/10/2005 1:08:29 PM)

quote:

Again, a ridiculous comparison, because the mormons deny the deity of Christ. Please do not confuse a Word of Faith message with a cult because it does not deny the deity of Christ.


Actually, it wasn't a comparison, it was an illustration. You said "cults do not have many years of people receving 'salvation, healing, baptism in Spirit, many lives changed and drawn closer to God.'" I proved your statement wrong with a very simple illustration. What you call good fruit is not the entire picture. None of the things you've listed prove that a ministry is actually of God, especially when that ministry is teaching things that are against scripture.

EDIT: Oh, and if I'm not mistaken, and this is a comparison, Mormons also believe that Jesus went to Hell* to suffer for the sins of the world.

(*Hell being defined as the Second Death, or lake of fire)



thewindsup -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/10/2005 11:04:38 PM)

wow, those are some pretty vicious attacks that according to what I have heard personally and what is published on the KCM website, however, do not represent the truth.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus

thewindsup,

Elsewhere you posted:

quote:

Statement of Faith

We believe in one God-Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Creator of all things.

We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, was buried, was resurrected, ascended into heaven, and is now seated at the right hand of God the Father and is true God and true man.

We believe the Bible in its entirety to be the inspired Word of God and the infallible rule of faith and conduct.

We believe in the resurrection of the dead, the eternal happiness of the saved, and the eternal punishment of the lost.

We believe in personal salvation of believers through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

We believe in sanctification through the Word of God and by the Holy Spirit, and we believe in personal holiness, purity of heart and life.

We believe in divine healing, through faith in the Name of Jesus Christ, and that healing is included in the Redemption.

We believe in water baptism, in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as distinct from the New Birth, in speaking with tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance (Acts 2:4), in the gifts of the Spirit, and the evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. We believe that all of these are available to believers.

We believe in the Christian's hope-the soon-coming, personal return of the Lord Jesus Christ.






We Believe....
THE SCRIPTURES - The Bible is the inspired Word of God, the product of holy men of old who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The New Covenant, as recorded in the New Testament, we accept as our infallible guide in matters pertaining to conduct and doctrine (2 Tim. 3:16; 1 Thess. 2:13; 2 Peter 1:21).

We Believe....

THE GODHEAD - Our God is one, but manifested in three Persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, being coequal (Deut. 6:4;Phil. 2:6). God the Father is greater than all; the Sender of the Word (Logos) and the Begetter (John 14:28; John 16:28; John 1:14). The Son is the Word flesh-covered, the One Begotten, and has existed with the Father from the beginning (John 1:1; John 1:18; John 1:14). The Holy Spirit proceeds forth from both the Father and the Son and is eternal (John 14:16;John 15:26).

We Believe....

MAN, HIS FALL AND REDEMPTION - Man is a created being, made in the likeness and image of God, but through Adam's transgression and fall, sin came into the world. The Bible says "...all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God," and "...There is none righteous, no, not one." (Rom. 3:10; 3:23). Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was manifested to undo the works of the devil and gave His life and shed His blood to redeem and restore man back to God (Rom. 5:14; 1 John 3:8).

Salvation is the gift of God to man, separate from works and the Law, and is made operative by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, producing works acceptable to God (Eph. 2:8-10).

We Believe....

ETERNAL LIFE AND THE NEW BIRTH - Man's first step toward salvation is godly sorrow that worketh repentance. The New Birth is necessary to all men, and when experienced, produces eternal life (2 Cor. 7:10; John 3:3-5; 1 John 5:12).

We Believe....

WATER BAPTISM - Baptism in water is by immersion, is a direct commandment of our Lord, and is for believers only. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).

The following recommendation regarding the water baptismal formula is adopted; to wit: "On the confession of your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and by His authority, I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Amen."

We Believe....

BAPTISM IN THE HOLY GHOST - The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received subsequent to the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

We Believe....

SANCTIFICATION - The Bible teaches that without holiness no man can see the Lord. We believe in the Doctrine of Sanctification as a definite, yet progressive work of grace, commencing at the time of regeneration and continuing until the consummation of salvation at Christ's return (Heb. 12:14; 1 Thess. 5:23; 2 Peter 3:18; 2 Cor. 3:18; Phil. 3:12-14; 1 Cor. 1:30).

We Believe....

DIVINE HEALING - Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, and by the laying on of hands. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Church today (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24).

We Believe....

RESURRECTION OF THE JUST AND THE RETURN OF OUR LORD - The angels said to Jesus' disciples, "...This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." His coming is imminent. When He comes, "...The dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air..." (Acts 1:11; 1 Thess. 4:16,17).

Following the Tribulation, He shall return to earth as King of kings, and Lord of lords, and together with His saints, who shall be kings and priests, He shall reign a thousand years (Rev. 5:10;20:6).

We Believe....

HELL AND ETERNAL RETRIBUTION - The one who physically dies in his sins without accepting Christ is hopelessly and eternally lost in the lake of fire and, therefore, has no further opportunity of hearing the Gospel or repenting. The lake of fire is literal. The terms "eternal" and "everlasting," used in describing the duration of the punishment of the damned in the lake of fire, carry the same thought and meaning of endless existence as used in denoting the duration of joy and ecstasy of saints in the Presence of God (Heb. 9:27; Rev. 19:20).



stateofgrace -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/11/2005 8:21:03 AM)

A "Statement of Faith" is not the whole message that any preacher or orginazation preaches/teaches. Are you claiming that the statements people have posted here are lies, or taken completely out of context?



P31W -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/11/2005 8:58:43 AM)

thewindsup,

I have only one question for you and all you have to reply is yes or no.

IF someone teaches the doctrine posted below would you believe they were truthfully and accurately teaching the Word of God?

Doctrine;

God created human beings in “God’s class” as “little gods.”

Before the fall, humans had the potential to exercise a “God kind of faith” and could call things into existence. Humans took on Satan’s nature by rebelling against God in the Garden of Eden, thus losing the ability to call things into existence.

In order to correct this situation, Jesus Christ became a man, died spiritually (taking Satan’s nature upon Himself), went to hell, was “born again,” and rose from the dead with God's nature.

After this, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to duplicate the Incarnation in believers so they might fulfill their calling to be little gods.

Those who have had the Incarnation duplicated in them by the Holy Spirit (thus giving them the ability to exercise the “God kind of faith”) should be successful in every area of their lives.

Hardships like indebtedness, illness, and even being left by one’s spouse show lack of faith because these problems should be eliminated by “claiming” God’s promises.

********

I look foward to your reply.



Soxfan -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/11/2005 10:37:57 AM)

thewindsup:

Here are a few more I would appreciate an yes/no answer for. You won't see THESE on KCM's Statement of Faith. However, these came directly from Mr Copeland's mouth:

God is the greatest failure in the Universe
"I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is....The biggest one is God....I mean, He lost His top-ranking, most anointed angel; the first man He ever created; the first woman He ever created; the whole earth and all the Fullness therein; a third of the angels, at least--that's a big loss, man.

God lives on a mother planet
"Heaven has a north and a south and an east and a west. Consequently, it must be a planet."

"You don't think earth was first, do you? Huh? Well, you don't think that God made man in His image, and then made earth in some other image? There is not anything under this whole sun that's new. Are you hearing what I'm saying? This is all a copy. It's a copy of home. It's a copy of the Mother Planet. Where God lives, He made a little one just like His and put us on it."

The death of Jesus on the Cross did not pay the price for sins
"It wasn't the physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin..anybody could do that"

“Every prophet that walked the face of the earth under the Abrahamic covenant could have paid the price if it were a physical death only” “When he said ‘It is finished’ on that cross, he was not speaking of the plan of redemption. The plan of redemption had just begun, there were still three days and three nights to be gone through.” “[Jesus] accepted the sin nature of Satan in His own Spirit, and at the moment that He did so, He cried ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’.” “He [Jesus] was down in that pit and there he suffered the punishment for three horrible days and nights for Adam’s treason... "He [Jesus] is suffering all that there is to suffer. There is no suffering left apart from Him. His emaciated, poured out, little, wormy spirit is down in the bottom of that thing [hell]. And the Devil thinks he's got Him destroyed." There is a new birth takes place in the very depths of the earth, when the command of God says ‘That’s enough, loose him and let him go’.”

"He [Jesus] was literally being reborn before the devil's very eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles. . . .Jesus was born again--the firstborn from the dead the Word calls Him--and He whipped the devil in his own backyard. He took everything he had away from him. He took his keys and his authority away from him."

God lives on a mother planet
"Heaven has a north and a south and an east and a west. Consequently, it must be a planet."



thewindsup -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/11/2005 7:56:37 PM)

I dont know, maybe these are things that were said a long time ago, maybe much of what you're quoting is out of context and those that arent quotes are misrepresented, maybe he knows something you dont and you dont know understand as much as you think you do, maybe not everything he says is perfect. Is everything you say perfect? But, I do know the truth of the Gospel is preached. Jesus is Lord. God loves us more than we can comprehend. His heart, will and plan for our lives is good. We live in a fallen world and God has called us see His will accomplished in our lives through faith, prayer and relationship with Him.



Child4Jesus -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/11/2005 8:55:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewindsup
I dont know, maybe these are things that were said a long time ago, maybe much of what you're quoting is out of context and those that arent quotes are misrepresented, maybe he knows something you don't and you don't know understand as much as you think you do, maybe not everything he says is perfect. Is everything you say perfect? But, I do know the truth of the Gospel is preached. Jesus is Lord. God loves us more than we can comprehend. His heart, will and plan for our lives is good. We live in a fallen world and God has called us see His will accomplished in our lives through faith, prayer and relationship with Him.


It isn't out of context. You can go to the sources.

Some of the qoutes are as of last year of even this year.

quote:

maybe not everything he says is perfect


Are you kidding me?

It's not a matter of saying something perfectly. These are simple mistakes.

The teaches are unbiblical. What part are you not understanding?

The Gospel that is preached is a different Gospel.

Any anointed person could have gone to the cross for mankind? Ha.



thewindsup -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/11/2005 8:59:25 PM)

could you be missing the point that there were many others crucified?



Child4Jesus -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/11/2005 9:12:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewindsup
could you be missing the point that there were many others crucified?


Any anointed Person could have done it



thewindsup -> RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread (11/11/2005 9:21:39 PM)

i dont see the words "annointed" in the reference and does "it" as in "any person could do it" refer to die on a cross or atone for our sins?



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