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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 11:06:04 AM
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mcleod
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I have notice some great post of what is wrong with the WOF camp. To tell some one they have little faith and unforgivenable sins in their lifes. To that, is the reason people don't get healed.
My ,my what if I told you that a certain individual had those same thoughts as that. Notice I wrote the same thoughts as. For that individual passed away with cancer.
All I know is when I close my eyes for the last time I will be healed from all the pain I feel today. That is the promise he made and his words are true to it.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 11:12:49 AM
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crankius
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quote:
God certainly allowed Job to go through a time of physical suffering (Job 1 - 2). In none of these cases is it stated that the sickness was caused by sin or unbelief. Nor did Paul or any of the others act as if they thought their healing was guaranteed in the atonement.
Earthless,
I hear a lot of the three friends in the WOF teachings.
If only you hadn't sinned so much, if only you would repent correctly, if only you would pray so that God would hear you...
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 11:16:28 AM
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earthless
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It's a works based cult belief system.
There I said it.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 11:17:49 AM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
It's a works based cult belief system.
There I said it.
About time somebody did.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 11:32:39 AM
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crankius
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Has anyone ever had success helping someone immersed in WOF teachings see the Biblical faults of it?
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Ecclesiastes 7:16
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 11:36:20 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
Has anyone ever had success helping someone immersed in WOF teachings see the Biblical faults of it?
Yes, yes and yes.
My wife is a prime example and many others I can personally testify to. Some even from and because of this and other related threads.
Have you had a chance to read a portion of my testimony? It is HERE
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 12:05:24 PM
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crankius
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It's clear in reading your story, Earthless, that the events around you and your wife helped you to see the false teachings, and God was opening your ears and eyes to the unsound theology--you had to see it for yourself, right?
In other words, if while you were immersed in WOF teachings, someone would have come to you with the theological errors of WOF teachings, would you have listened? Did anyone try?
Were there any books (besides God's Word) that were particularly helpful to you?
It sounds like the more you were studying apologetics, the more you found the errors in WOF teachings.
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Ecclesiastes 7:16
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 12:22:16 PM
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earthless
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Crankius,
I personally never bought into any Word of Faith/Latter Rain teachings. I simply was involved with such movements because they were and are present in many of our church circles. Especially in large inner-cities.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 12:25:57 PM
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golfjack
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I see that some don't know how to find what God's will is for us. To me, His will is found in His Word. Our healing for our bodies was paid for over 2 thousand years ago. So, what does God say in His Word about that? 2 Peter 2:24 confirms this. Notice have been healed ( past tense). Now, to activate healing for our bodies, we must confess this scripture out of our mouths. For example, I declare myself healed by the stripes of Jesus. And say this everyday until it manifests in your bodies. Remember what faith is. It's believing before receiving. It says in Hebrews that it is impossible to please God without faith. Faith is so important to God. It is a shame that many have not been taught faith. I know some of you extreme and watered down Calvanists will resist healing doctrine, but this is what the Word says.
A little teastimony about the start of my Christian life? I was a Catholic for about 37 years. For sure, I was never taught the Bible. Never even read it. At work a Baptist friend of mine placed a tract in my coat pocket. I read it and said the sinners prayer. My life started to change. I went to a few Bible studies at the Baptist church. When they started to discuss how they didn't like Pentecostal's, of course I had no idea what they were talking about. Then left and to make a long story short, I floundered for about 19 years. After this I moved to Az and joined a WOF church. Finally I went to Bible school and I guess the rest is history. I still have much work to do for God. For those of you that are concerned about money, I never accept money when I preach. I have enough of my own money. I truly have been blessed. I believe we are spiritual descendants of Abraham and can partake in the blessings of Abraham. One of my favorite verses is I can do all things in Christ Who strengthens me. This one verse has served me well. Fell free to ask me any questions about WOF.
Peace, Golfjack
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 12:38:11 PM
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gennaoanothen
Posts: 173
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
I have notice some great post of what is wrong with the WOF camp. To tell some one they have little faith and unforgivenable sins in their lifes. To that, is the reason people don't get healed.
My ,my what if I told you that a certain individual had those same thoughts as that. Notice I wrote the same thoughts as. For that individual passed away with cancer.
All I know is when I close my eyes for the last time I will be healed from all the pain I feel today. That is the promise he made and his words are true to it.
correct, and where did you find that promise from God? of course in the Word of God!
might I ask you if you have in fact closed your eyes for the last time?
obviously you are standing in faith, for the promises of God, well done!!!!
that is exactly what we do, we see the promises of God in scripture, and we stand in faith for them.
Psalms 103:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
psalms 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:
James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 12:42:16 PM
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GodsMusic
Posts: 619
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quote:
ORIGINAL: golfjack
I see that some don't know how to find what God's will is for us. To me, His will is found in His Word. Our healing for our bodies was paid for over 2 thousand years ago. So, what does God say in His Word about that? 2 Peter 2:24 confirms this. Notice have been healed ( past tense).
Peace, Golfjack
I'm a bible believing man that KNOWS God heals today in 2008.
But, Jack if you read the verse that Peter was quoting (Is 53:5) in it's entire context (scriptures before and after) you'll see that God is speaking of Salvation, not physical healing in his passage.
Peter wasn't using the past tense in a "claim it" form, but rather he was speaking to SAVED people who he knew were spiritually healed.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 12:45:28 PM
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crankius
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quote:
2 Peter 2:24 confirms this
???
I think this is the wrong reference. There isn't a 2 Peter 2:24.
There is a 1 Peter 2:24. Here it is in context:
1 Peter 2:19-25
For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: "Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth"; who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness--by whose stripes you were healed. For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
I see no promise for physical healing of my temporary body in this passage.
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 12:46:22 PM
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gennaoanothen
Posts: 173
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
It's a works based cult belief system.
There I said it.
so are you saying that we work for our salvation? LOL
why not then call us, word of works, then instead of word of faith, our new initials from our brothers and sisters WOW
surley you have read the word of God, he does set conditions, to some of His benefits. because a person keeps these conditions does not mean they are working for the benefits.
some will go to any length to discredit others, and I am sure that does not please God
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 12:48:19 PM
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crankius
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quote:
surley you have read the word of God, he does set conditions, to some of His benefits. because a person keeps these conditions does not mean they are working for the benefits.
Can you explain this further, using Scriptural references please?
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 12:49:40 PM
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gennaoanothen
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alot of good post, I do have a work related seminar to attend tonight, on lunch right now, I do wish to respond back to some. God bless
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 12:51:32 PM
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crankius
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quote:
Isaiah 53:4-9
Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth.
He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
And they made His grave with the wicked-- But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was any deceit in His mouth.
How can you cheapen the atonement of Christ by claiming "by His stripes we are healed" is about our temporary physical ailments?
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
Church Covenants
wepanicinapew
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 12:52:59 PM
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gennaoanothen
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
quote:
surley you have read the word of God, he does set conditions, to some of His benefits. because a person keeps these conditions does not mean they are working for the benefits.
Can you explain this further, using Scriptural references please?
real quick gotta run
salvation
you must believe and confess Romans 10:9-10
the Bible is full of conditions for receiving from God
refuse to believe and go to hell concerning Romans 10:9-10
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 12:53:55 PM
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GodsMusic
Posts: 619
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From: Arkansas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
quote:
surley you have read the word of God, he does set conditions, to some of His benefits. because a person keeps these conditions does not mean they are working for the benefits.
Can you explain this further, using Scriptural references please?
Well actually Crankius I can give a few:
Psalms. 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Then the entire 28th chapter of Deut,
Or the Sermon on the Mount.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 12:55:10 PM
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gennaoanothen
Posts: 173
Joined: 10/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
quote:
Isaiah 53:4-9
Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth.
He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
And they made His grave with the wicked-- But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was any deceit in His mouth.
How can you cheapen the atonement of Christ by claiming "by His stripes we are healed" is about our temporary physical ailments?
it is backed up 2 more times in the word, in matthew it says that is exactly what it means
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 1:03:42 PM
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GodsMusic
Posts: 619
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From: Arkansas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gennaoanothen
it is backed up 2 more times in the word, in matthew it says that is exactly what it means
Chapter and verse, please? Real quick?
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 1:04:51 PM
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crankius
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quote:
it is backed up 2 more times in the word, in matthew it says that is exactly what it means
Prove it.
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 1:07:50 PM
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crankius
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quote:
Well actually Crankius I can give a few:
Psalms. 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
This, however, is no guarantee of earthly gain, wealth, health, etc.
Even the wicked "prosper": Psalm 73:3 For I was envious of the boastful, When I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
So you must rethink your understanding of Psalm 1.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
Church Covenants
wepanicinapew
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 1:12:02 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4200
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gennaoanothen
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
It's a works based cult belief system.
There I said it.
so are you saying that we work for our salvation? LOL
why not then call us, word of works, then instead of word of faith, our new initials from our brothers and sisters WOW
surley you have read the word of God, he does set conditions, to some of His benefits. because a person keeps these conditions does not mean they are working for the benefits.
some will go to any length to discredit others, and I am sure that does not please God
I will go to any length to discredit false teachings and proclaim His Word. Especially to those caught in such circles.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2008 1:13:11 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4200
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Scripture does not promise us health and wealth. Nowhere in Scripture are we absolutely guaranteed physical healing in this lifetime. Nowhere.
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