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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/7/2008 10:14:30 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1357
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OK. You get the last word. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: doer
never a bad idea to pray together.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/7/2008 11:03:23 PM
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GrapeApe
Posts: 8504
Joined: 6/5/2006
From: the Land Where My Jokes come From.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Focusing
I don't think there's any question that young hormonal teenagers should be together in an intimate setting with no supervision. Praying or not, it's just not a good idea.
Absolutely.
What bothers me most is that the quote referring to couples praying together leads to them laying together is false, not to mention unGodly. But the quote is intended to be a statement of fact.
That's as if to say, all couples of all ages, married or not, are bound to fall into sex and sexual intimacy because they sat down and prayed together.
_____________________________
your love cuts like a knife into the darkest part of me.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/8/2008 4:55:39 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1357
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RatherDashing
quote:
ORIGINAL: Focusing
I don't think there's any question that young hormonal teenagers should be together in an intimate setting with no supervision. Praying or not, it's just not a good idea.
Absolutely.
What bothers me most is that the quote referring to couples praying together leads to them laying together is false, not to mention unGodly. But the quote is intended to be a statement of fact.
That's as if to say, all couples of all ages, married or not, are bound to fall into sex and sexual intimacy because they sat down and prayed together.
As with all overstatements, it only muddied the water, which is why I steered clear of that aspect of it.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/8/2008 11:54:22 AM
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restored08
Posts: 78
Joined: 2/7/2008
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Praying together is simply people coming together touching and agreeing on the same thing. You send more angels to flight for your situation when there are two or more touching and agreeing in Jesus' name. You all may be seeking the same thing. And if your beliefs are the same you should pray together. You are sister and brother in Christ as well. You are supposed to pray together as well as for one another. Be very careful with the books that you read because some are just for monetary gain not for your edification or spiritual growth. Praying and sex are two different things, TOTALLY.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/9/2008 2:55:46 AM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
Joined: 2/9/2008
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TM,
You can stop tooting your "I know more than you" horn now. 60-something does not impress me when it begins to use "time-lived" as evidence of spiritual maturity. Like my 84 year old mother, you seem to think you gained wisdom/spiritual maturity by your years lived. Well, YEARS do not gain one wisdom or spiritual maturity, EXPERIENCE with Him does.
And I will add REPENTANCE to this as well.
And btw, a true guiding ELDER of maturity in their faith will never pull the "age card". (Like you just did...) 
Instead, a true and WISE elder worth hearing will give evidence of experience and show wisdom with a kind, gentle and leading heart.
Things which you cannot seem to do.
You have less wisdom than most here regarding the number of children. (you only are a parent of 2)
You have less experience with youth/teens than most here. (many posting here are retired, former/current school teachers, youth ministry leaders and much, MUCH more...including parents of grown children)
You have no experience with being the parent of a son/sons. (unlike me and many here who have several sons AND daughters AND grandchildren AND foster children.)
You seem MOST concerned with teens/youth "getting in over their heads" than you do with them having a TRUE WALK.
A TRUE WALK can outrule the misgivings you WORK so hard at steering them from. Your efforts in fact are entirely dedicated to PREVENTION of sin by HOPING to "Get your point across".
Your works do not strive towards SEEKING THE LORD.
A HUGE MISTAKE. You are in fact playing GOD by thinking you can manipualte His youth that are in fact HIS, not yours.
You just don't get it. You actually think you get the Glory....
amazingly SAD...
You place success on your EFFORTS /WORKS.
And ZERO on the Holy Spirit.
This equates you to being works oriented/driven.
NOT an essential christian doctrine my friend.
< Message edited by Melitac -- 4/9/2008 4:00:42 AM >
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/9/2008 3:11:27 AM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
Joined: 2/9/2008
Status: offline
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Telling a seeker to not seek Him (REGARDLESS OF WHO OR HOW MANY OR WHERE THEY ARE) is denying God and the power of the Holy Spirit.
Scripture says "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."–Matt. 18:20
It doesn't say "where men and women are seperate" that He is in the midst of them.
So you are wrong.
And the rest of us here are right. But this is only because we are defending the Word and what it stands for.
< Message edited by Melitac -- 4/9/2008 3:54:50 AM >
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/9/2008 1:19:37 PM
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Striving2BVirtuous
Posts: 37
Joined: 3/15/2008
Status: offline
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I read a couple of articles on this very website (Christianity.com) that we all come to and I came across this article:
http://www.christianity.com/11551996/
Here is an part of that article:
Set boundaries. Know that the only way to avoid emotional heartbreak to set boundaries to guard your heart – before you’re in a situation where you need to put boundaries into practice. Think and pray about specific boundaries to set, and commit to them, and clearly communicate them to friends and family who will hold you accountable, as well as to any people that you date. Consider setting boundaries like these: dating only Christians; building a solid friendship before advancing into romance; refraining from flirting; avoiding being alone with someone of the opposite gender in a home, car, or closed room and limiting alone time to public places; and refraining from tickling, back rubs or other forms of physical touch. Remember that boundaries aren’t meant to prevent you from having fun; they enable you to live life to the fullest by living at the center of God’s will. Make sure that God is first in your life. Live according to the light of truth that He shines into your life. Whenever you find yourself in a dangerous situation, take a time out to reevaluate. Don’t convince yourself that just looking at attractive men or women is okay; don’t let images stir up destructive fantasies in your mind. Avoid talking to someone of the opposite gender late at night, when you’re more prone than other times to say things you shouldn’t. When talking at any time, don’t discuss sex or relationships. Avoid one-on-one prayer time because it fosters strong emotional intimacy. Don’t let a relationship get to the point where it starts isolating you from friends and family; practice biblical principles of fellowship and accountability. Talk openly with your friends and family about all your relationships with people of the opposite gender, and seek wisdom from those you respect.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/9/2008 2:13:23 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1200
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Melitac
Telling a seeker to not seek Him (REGARDLESS OF WHO OR HOW MANY OR WHERE THEY ARE) is denying God and the power of the Holy Spirit.
if i am standing with you in an elevator i can seek God and pray without you even knowing it.
the advice "don't pray outloud alone witha date" is not spiritually restrictive AT ALL.
neither should it incite hostility. i can completely understand some thinking this is a new and silly idea, but to say that it comes from a place of denying God and discouraging spiritual activity is very inaccurate.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/9/2008 6:52:33 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1357
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Melitac
TM,
You can stop tooting your "I know more than you" horn now. 60-something does not impress me when it begins to use "time-lived" as evidence of spiritual maturity. Like my 84 year old mother, you seem to think you gained wisdom/spiritual maturity by your years lived. Well, YEARS do not gain one wisdom or spiritual maturity, EXPERIENCE with Him does.
And I will add REPENTANCE to this as well.
And btw, a true guiding ELDER of maturity in their faith will never pull the "age card". (Like you just did...)
Instead, a true and WISE elder worth hearing will give evidence of experience and show wisdom with a kind, gentle and leading heart.
Things which you cannot seem to do.
You have less wisdom than most here regarding the number of children. (you only are a parent of 2)
You have less experience with youth/teens than most here. (many posting here are retired, former/current school teachers, youth ministry leaders and much, MUCH more...including parents of grown children)
You have no experience with being the parent of a son/sons. (unlike me and many here who have several sons AND daughters AND grandchildren AND foster children.)
You seem MOST concerned with teens/youth "getting in over their heads" than you do with them having a TRUE WALK.
A TRUE WALK can outrule the misgivings you WORK so hard at steering them from. Your efforts in fact are entirely dedicated to PREVENTION of sin by HOPING to "Get your point across".Your works do not strive towards SEEKING THE LORD.
A HUGE MISTAKE. You are in fact playing GOD by thinking you can manipualte His youth that are in fact HIS, not yours.
You just don't get it. You actually think you get the Glory....
amazingly SAD...
You place success on your EFFORTS /WORKS.
And ZERO on the Holy Spirit.
This equates you to being works oriented/driven.
NOT an essential christian doctrine my friend.
You asked specifically asked about my qualifications and I answered.
But, you are right. My efforts, in this particular case, ARE "dedicated to PREVENTION of sin by HOPING to "Get your point across". For some reason, I always thought that was a GOOD thing.
By the way. I think that even teens with a 'true walk' can find themselves in situations that are over their heads whether it be dating or otherwise. That's because, in general, their brains have not fully developed as yet. That's why they need adults to help quide them with maturity.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/9/2008 9:56:56 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1357
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Striving2BVirtuous
I read a couple of articles on this very website (Christianity.com) that we all come to and I came across this article:
http://www.christianity.com/11551996/
Here is an part of that article:
Set boundaries. Know that the only way to avoid emotional heartbreak to set boundaries to guard your heart – before you’re in a situation where you need to put boundaries into practice. Think and pray about specific boundaries to set, and commit to them, and clearly communicate them to friends and family who will hold you accountable, as well as to any people that you date. Consider setting boundaries like these: dating only Christians; building a solid friendship before advancing into romance; refraining from flirting; avoiding being alone with someone of the opposite gender in a home, car, or closed room and limiting alone time to public places; and refraining from tickling, back rubs or other forms of physical touch. Remember that boundaries aren’t meant to prevent you from having fun; they enable you to live life to the fullest by living at the center of God’s will. Make sure that God is first in your life. Live according to the light of truth that He shines into your life. Whenever you find yourself in a dangerous situation, take a time out to reevaluate. Don’t convince yourself that just looking at attractive men or women is okay; don’t let images stir up destructive fantasies in your mind. Avoid talking to someone of the opposite gender late at night, when you’re more prone than other times to say things you shouldn’t. When talking at any time, don’t discuss sex or relationships. Avoid one-on-one prayer time because it fosters strong emotional intimacy. Don’t let a relationship get to the point where it starts isolating you from friends and family; practice biblical principles of fellowship and accountability. Talk openly with your friends and family about all your relationships with people of the opposite gender, and seek wisdom from those you respect.
The book for which that report was written seems to be excellent.
The whole concept of 'emotional promiscuity' is one that Christians should understand more deeply. Few people understand that physical nature of bonding. A bond to another person is a real, molecular, physical structure in the brain and if one allows themselves to develop bonds beyond certain boundaries before marriage, it always results in far deeper wounds which, if not dealt with properly, have long term consequences.
Dating and courting are two different situations. When courting is involved, the couple has made their intentions known to a wider group of people that they intend to marry. That really should be the time for emotional bonding at a deeper level than the boundaries one sets during dating.
That was a great find! Thanks!
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/12/2008 9:41:24 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 1149
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
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This needs to be repeated. So right!
quote:
ORIGINAL: Melitac
Like I mentioned above, prayer is spiritual, sex is of the flesh.
Correct spiritual christlike behaviour will lead to a deeper, closer walk with God. NOT the other way around.
It sounds like this could happen if the couples Walk was not strong. Or not real even.
So the real problem would lie in their Faith, not their prayer life. This is very important. A true Walk with God will not lead us into sin. But one that is superficial sure can.
I feel that it is dangerous advice to ever tell someone not to pray or seek the Lord.
This is not scriptural at all. This is not what the Bible teaches.
God says when two or more are gathered in My name, there I am in the midst. The Bible encourages us to pray. If anything is going ary, you can be prayer--real prayer, the kind that honors God has nothing to do with it.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/12/2008 9:50:39 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 1149
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
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quote:
The whole concept of 'emotional promiscuity' is one that Christians should understand more deeply.
Let's quantify that in Biblical terms, shall we? Sinful thoughts. The only way bonding becomes WRONG, is when our thoughts during the bonding process become SINFUL. I can have strong godly, brotherly love bond with a male and NEVER find myself slipping into this "emotional promiscuity."
We can speak of chemical reactions in the brain, and that's all good and well. But God calls it something quite different. SIN. You sin in your thought-life not in being godly and sharing with another Christian. That's what we're SUPPOSE to do. Paul talks about the BONDS of brotherly love all of the time. When does a bond become unhealthy? When it starts unhealthy--as sinful thoughts that are built upon by sinful interaction.
Praying with another believer is NOT wrong. Forming a BOND with another believer is NOT wrong. It should be godly and God centered. It's a GOOD thing. Christians need to learn how control themselves. Incidentally, self-control is a fruit of the spirit.
In our over-sexed world, I'm afraid believers are not taught to look at each other as truly brothers and sisters in Christ. Sex is king. It trumps everything these days. Stop praying, stop fellowshipping, avoid all individuals of the opposite sex, do not talk to anyone for more than a minute who isn't your spouse . . . whoa! Let's get back to the basics again! We're turning Christianity into Islam. We have freedom in Christ! Freedom because we obey Him and He gives us power to overcome. Let's not go down that dark and slippery road!
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/12/2008 10:44:34 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1357
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
quote:
The whole concept of 'emotional promiscuity' is one that Christians should understand more deeply.
Let's quantify that in Biblical terms, shall we? Sinful thoughts. The only way bonding becomes WRONG, is when our thoughts during the bonding process become SINFUL. I can have strong godly, brotherly love bond with a male and NEVER find myself slipping into this "emotional promiscuity."
We can speak of chemical reactions in the brain, and that's all good and well. But God calls it something quite different. SIN. You sin in your thought-life not in being godly and sharing with another Christian. That's what we're SUPPOSE to do. Paul talks about the BONDS of brotherly love all of the time. When does a bond become unhealthy? When it starts unhealthy--as sinful thoughts that are built upon by sinful interaction.
Praying with another believer is NOT wrong. Forming a BOND with another believer is NOT wrong. It should be godly and God centered. It's a GOOD thing. Christians need to learn how control themselves. Incidentally, self-control is a fruit of the spirit.
In our over-sexed world, I'm afraid believers are not taught to look at each other as truly brothers and sisters in Christ. Sex is king. It trumps everything these days. Stop praying, stop fellowshipping, avoid all individuals of the opposite sex, do not talk to anyone for more than a minute who isn't your spouse . . . whoa! Let's get back to the basics again! We're turning Christianity into Islam. We have freedom in Christ! Freedom because we obey Him and He gives us power to overcome. Let's not go down that dark and slippery road!
I don't even know where to begin because there is truth mixed with a certain level of naivete in you post.
God calls us to purity. But, listen carefully to this sentence from Paul.
1Co 7:9
But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
What he is clearly talking about is the situation where a couple has bonded to the point where passions are increasing to the burning point. And, he also recognizes in this verse that these passions can rise to the level with self control is difficult. Paul understood men and women.
Now, I am certain that if the science and research that we have available to us were available to Paul and the general population he would have been comfortable talking in those terms. He was an educated person and used his education and knowledge to lift up the Risen Christ. He was no dummy.
What you fail to appreciate is that the way we are made virtually assures that if a couple does things that fools the mind into building bonding meant for mating, then trouble is bound to follow. It is better NOT to be in a position where that can happen. Because if it does a significant number will cross over the bounderies to sin. It all works together.
Why people keep insisting that we are telling people 'not to pray' when that is not what we have said. There are plenty of opportunities for prayer outside the risky environment we've identified.
We should use all the Wisdom and Knowledge at our disposal that lines up with the Word of God.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/12/2008 11:02:06 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 1149
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
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quote:
1Co 7:9
But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
This does not say a bond has been created.
Self-control is fruit of the spirit. That is why he thought a man shouldn't touch a woman.
quote:
We should use all the Wisdom and Knowledge at our disposal that lines up with the Word of God. This is so key.
quote:
Now, I am certain that if the science and research that we have available to us were available to Paul and the general population he would have been comfortable talking in those terms. He was an educated person and used his education and knowledge to lift up the Risen Christ. He was no dummy.
But sin is dumb. It will always be just that--dumb. Sin is sin. No amount of science will ever explain it.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/12/2008 11:54:24 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1200
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Praying with another believer is NOT wrong. Forming a BOND with another believer is NOT wrong. It should be godly and God centered. It's a GOOD thing. Christians need to learn how control themselves. Incidentally, self-control is a fruit of the spirit.
dating is for the purpose of slowly considering forming lifelong
MATE bonds. not for developing brother/sister relationships.
self control is not the only biblical wisdom for avoiding sexual sin. so is avoiding and fleeing from temptation.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/13/2008 11:14:14 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1357
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
But sin is dumb. It will always be just that--dumb. Sin is sin. No amount of science will ever explain it.
Oh, Dakotasunbeam, that's just SO wrong. What do you think science is?
It is the study of observable fact. And, while it may not be labeled as 'sin' we have plenty of observations that explain why something is harmful to our bodies and, by extension... sin.
Here is the BRAIN SCAN of a healthy brain.
Just look at this BRAIN SCAN and tell me that it doesn't explain why alcoholism is a sin!
And, how about the scan of a DRUG USER?
Now, tell me that science cannot explain WHY God says that drunkeness is a sin. It vividly demonstrated exactly why it is a sin.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 4/13/2008 11:20:47 PM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/13/2008 11:34:29 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1357
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
quote:
1Co 7:9
But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
This does not say a bond has been created.
Self-control is fruit of the spirit. That is why he thought a man shouldn't touch a woman.
Where did you get that from this verse?
Let's break the verse down.
"But" ... This points back to the verse where Paul says it's better not to marry. 'But' means that he is going to give an exception to that advice.
"If" ... the exception is going to be conditional.
"they cannot control themselves" ... the condition. Look at this verse. Paul, himself, says that there are those that cannot control themselves. This means that he understood the power of the sexual instinct to be great.
"they should marry" ... 'then' is implied for this result based on the exception condition.
Why? Because the sex instinct was strong enough that the 2 people felt that they could not control themselves.
"for" ... this indicates that the reason for his allowing the exception will follow.
"it is better to marry" ... While Paul had advised against marrying, in some cases it is BETTER to marry and he will now tell why.
than ... Paul indicates with this word he is going to reveal WHY it is better to marry in some cases.
to burn ... Marrying is better than burning. But, what is this 'burning' that he talks about?
with passion. ... It's the burning inside a person that rises with passion to the point where they feel they are no longer in control of themselves.
And, that passion comes from bonding in the brain. Where else could this passion come from if two people are being drawn together so strongly? Of course, the Bible isn't going to talk about neurons and synapses. The words didn't even exist in Paul's day. But, nontheless, the bonding process is perfectly described.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/13/2008 11:39:34 PM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
Joined: 2/9/2008
Status: offline
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Round and around and around they go....where they will stop? Nobody knows.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/14/2008 12:25:36 AM
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iSERVEaJEW
Posts: 445
Joined: 3/29/2008
From: Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Striving2BVirtuous
I read a couple of Christian dating books over the weekend. One of the books advised AGAINST praying together during the "dating" phase. The reasoning was that praying together is almost considered just as intimate as sex. And that it makes it a little easier to cross the boundaries emotionally and end up being physically intimate. I wanted to get everybody's take on this? Opinions?
I certainly agree. I don't even think that dating should have anything at all to do with a Christian. Where does the Bible present dating as the way to get to know your spouse?
There is a sermon series on betrothal by a Baptist minister that I think is awesome. Please, investigate it if you're interested in understanding what the Bible has to say on this subject better. You'll find the series at the very bottom - scroll down!
http://www.biblepreaching.com/
_____________________________
Saved by His grace alone.
Called to be His disciple and imitating Him.
Keeping the Torah with zeal.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/JonesWTC911SciMethod.pdf
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/14/2008 12:30:46 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1357
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Did Jesus say this? If so? chp and verse please. If it is not, then why worry about it. Sometimes we think too much ( myself included)
I wasn't sure to which message you were referring? But, I will ask you this.
Did Jesus tell us how to lead militaries to victory? No. But, it is still a vital part of protecting the freedom of Religion and many Godly people serve in the military.
But, if all you gave them was a Bible, not many would come home. It is vitally important to gather as much wisdom, knowledge and intelligence as you can as a soldier... and, we are soldiers for Christ, are we not?
Wisdom that lines up completely with the Word of God comes from a wide variety of sources and as long as what we learn is TRUTH, then we can never think too much. We are made in God's image and God NEVER stops thinking right down to the smallest detail. Otherwise, the universe would explode into oblivion.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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