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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/11/2008 9:54:26 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
They say that they know Me, but their actions deny Me. These people draw near to Me with their mouths, but their hearts are far from Me.
Which actions of Hank's says that he denies Christ? Exactly how are you judging another man's heart?
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Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/16/2008 5:02:05 PM
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TheosCentric
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After lurking for a while it seems that "....." only wants to keep the thread going w/o offering any substantial evidence, why not just everyone block him/her and then the thread will die a silent death, because "......" cannot offer anything worthwhile to talk about.
That's my opinion. I haven't seen anything that even warrants this thread continuing.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/17/2008 5:46:41 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheoCentric
After lurking for a while it seems that "....." only wants to keep the thread going w/o offering any substantial evidence, why not just everyone block him/her and then the thread will die a silent death, because "......" cannot offer anything worthwhile to talk about.
That's my opinion. I haven't seen anything that even warrants this thread continuing.
You raise a good point. But that's true with many, many controversial topics. I've gotten past caring whether or not they keep trying to provoke conversation about what they perceive is a scourge in Christianity. In order to allow the freedom to express one's opinion, we have to allow even the disagreeable ones to have their's.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/18/2008 6:31:22 AM
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TheosCentric
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True, but "....." isn't even posting anything worthwhile. Only baseless opinion which has nothing even to do with Hanegraaf. He/She can continue to express their opinion, whatever it is, but unless they provide specific facts, it's only going to be banging gong or clanging symbol.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/21/2008 8:36:01 AM
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kmangel
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
I want to know so I can make sure I don't cross that money standard of yours.
I think it goes for all of us, no matter how much money a person makes or receives. First of all the money belongs to God. Those of us that get a lot or a little--the money belongs to God.
I don't know about Hank personally--none of us do--but what he does with the wealth he has been blessed with is between him and God. I hope he's being true to God with his money and letting the Holy Spirit direct him in how he uses the gift he's been given. That's true for all of us. Are we all being true to God in the gifts we have been given--whether money or some other gift? It could be a talent we've been blessed with. I bet a lot of us are not fully utilizing a talent or some other gift we've been given.
One thing I believe is that when we start to criticize someone else for what they are doing or not doing, it's time to look inward. See what we are doing or not doing that is making this feeling rise to the surface in us. It could be we what we think we are seeing in someone else's life is actually in our own life.
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Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
--Mark Twain
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/21/2008 9:16:42 AM
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earthless
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Well, we do know that ......... did post here publically early on in the thread that he had a problem with authors selling their books because he/she could not afford to buy any. Maybe that is where it all stems from, not sure.. just going based off of what ........ has shared.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/21/2008 3:04:14 AM
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reach
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I am starting this off with, I listen to the program very rarely. But my friend listens all the time.
I keep getting phone calls saying that on his show that some preacher said something outlandish and that Hank put it down.
How valid are these one lines that are said on the program? I am very leary of someone taking 1-2 lines and blowing them up, just for their own purpose.
I am curious what other people feelings are.
BTW: I don't have a problem with him writing books to sell. That is how people make a living. The few times I have heard him, I liked his preaching. I understand that he "inherited" the title "Bilble Answer Man" but again, I am leary of someone that would take that title. No one knows it all.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/21/2008 4:13:10 AM
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cognitivemagic
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Some prior posts were adding false allegations and here-say, so I will just briefly address them generally:
1) Hank is not "Catholic" and defends the anti-Catholic and unorthodox idea of "eternal security".
2) Ex-C.R.I. staffers are as arrogant, in many cases more so, than Hank!! I'm thinking of Robert Morey, in particular; but there's others I could name.
3) Hank used to live in Cota De Caza, a very affluent area of Orange County California. But so what? C.R.I., when all is said and done, is a business. And if he has helped that ministry flourish economically, in ways it never could with Walter Martin, I'd like to ask "why is the worker not entitled to his fair wage?"
4) Hanks position on "charisma" is akin to Walter Martins; although, I think that Martin placed more emphasis, in his lectures, on them. But they both believed that God manifests His gifts according to His will; not our own.
5) Hank is a sinner, just like you and me. God will be his judge. Are his "sins" any worse than yours or mine?
And whose life is so unsullied by sinful corruption that he/she can sit and judge the souls of other men without hypocrisy?
Answer: the Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 2:12:21 PM
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.nile.
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Magic and practicers of the occult like witchcraft which is the sin of disobedience to God have there places in gehena is what revelation says. Knowledge puffs up, magic can lead to condemning someone. So 'rational' and cognitive of some to understand that God will never be reduced to the mere 'understandings' of people, for He is Greater than them at all times.
Jesus came and suffered many things on earth, not 'lording' it over others for money or looking down on others because He knows all things; but instead was the servant of all. He does many things privately, not in front of others for a show, but genuinely caring for people's needs and the needy; instead of His Own. What example are some, then, that use leadership 'positions' to do what Jesus does not: 'has no one condemned you, neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more lest something worse happen to you.' Jesus said that those that hold to the Nicolaitan doctrine of Church 'leadership' were not pleasing Him. Nicholas was first elected by Apostolic appointment as a deacon. Apparently, there arose problems with his leadership doctrines regarding the politics of positions in the Church and money.
The Pharisees who loved money, scoffed at Jesus and reviled Him. Jesus said; count the cost.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cognitivemagic
Some prior posts were adding false allegations and here-say, so I will just briefly address them generally:
1) Hank is not "Catholic" and defends the anti-Catholic and unorthodox idea of "eternal security".
2) Ex-C.R.I. staffers are as arrogant, in many cases more so, than Hank!! I'm thinking of Robert Morey, in particular; but there's others I could name.
3) Hank used to live in Cota De Caza, a very affluent area of Orange County California. But so what? C.R.I., when all is said and done, is a business. And if he has helped that ministry flourish economically, in ways it never could with Walter Martin, I'd like to ask "why is the worker not entitled to his fair wage?"
4) Hanks position on "charisma" is akin to Walter Martins; although, I think that Martin placed more emphasis, in his lectures, on them. But they both believed that God manifests His gifts according to His will; not our own.
5) Hank is a sinner, just like you and me. God will be his judge. Are his "sins" any worse than yours or mine?
And whose life is so unsullied by sinful corruption that he/she can sit and judge the souls of other men without hypocrisy?
Answer: the Lord Jesus Christ.
< Message edited by .nile. -- 8/25/2008 2:54:26 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 2:41:30 PM
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.nile.
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We are Blessed to be a Blessing to others, not to hoard what we have been given in greed for personal gain. There are many businesses in the so-called 'free' market that do not take advantage of the people of God. Is travelling on vacation to the Mexican Riviera inviting the poor to your feasts as Jesus Commanded? Some say the world is going to hell in a handbasket, others say pass the basket in our church, then, for vacation trips that are the true rewards, to some, received in complete that Jesus spoke about. In some countries, the $500 that it costs for the trip, would be currency converted into $5000 on their market; which is two years of wages.
Paul made sure that he lived this example as did the other Apostles that there was always an administrative distribution for the poor and needy. In this the Jehovah's witnesses and the Mormons give away their magazine for free and there 'book' as a gift; whereas some purport that they 'protest' the Doctrines of the Catholic Faith and others, they do not, themselves many times, give the bible away free as a gift to others in their Churches. Instead, the international bible society must have their 'copywrited' tributes. So, give to ceasar the tribute, and give to The People the fee gift of the Biblical Scripture.
Which 'foreigner' would pay a months wages to hear gossip and faultfinding worldwide, when they can receive the free gift that God offered in Scripture of The Holy Spirit? One of Hank's magazines cost $60 or so, for some people in other countries this is like more than $600 on their market, then some will purport that the people who give it away free are spreading worldwide at a fast rate. Why, then, not understand that it was freely given by Faith and give it away freely for the Good measure would be poured out into your lap in return said Jesus. If our hearts are only on monetary gain rather than spreading the Gospel, then our treasure is perishing but God was our Great and Wonderful reward; the promised land.
Why don't some churches follow the online pod cast format like Crystal Cathedral, with language translators, so they can spread The Word when some cannot attend the events?
When Hank comments on cultic groups and 'false' doctrinal beliefs; is he not doing the same as Judging others without regard to what counts in the heart? Hank's ministry does much 'rational' critique and criticism and faultfinding of others and blatantly labelling of other people who attend as though they were going to be excluded from the prize based on Hank's rulings rather than God's. Jesus said that there were those among the so-called leadership groups who did not hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans and Balaamic prophecy for money. Thats why He said: those that lead others to sin are the ones who will be held the more accountable. Judging to condemn your neighbor and teaching others to do so for financial and personal monetary gain, is seven times worse than balaam false prophecy of baal is what Jesus said.
quote:
ORIGINAL: kmangel
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
I want to know so I can make sure I don't cross that money standard of yours.
I think it goes for all of us, no matter how much money a person makes or receives. First of all the money belongs to God. Those of us that get a lot or a little--the money belongs to God.
I don't know about Hank personally--none of us do--but what he does with the wealth he has been blessed with is between him and God. I hope he's being true to God with his money and letting the Holy Spirit direct him in how he uses the gift he's been given. That's true for all of us. Are we all being true to God in the gifts we have been given--whether money or some other gift? It could be a talent we've been blessed with. I bet a lot of us are not fully utilizing a talent or some other gift we've been given.
One thing I believe is that when we start to criticize someone else for what they are doing or not doing, it's time to look inward. See what we are doing or not doing that is making this feeling rise to the surface in us. It could be we what we think we are seeing in someone else's life is actually in our own life.
< Message edited by .nile. -- 8/25/2008 4:35:21 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 4:31:58 PM
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stateofgrace
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On the cruise thing:
If we're going to criticize Hank Hanegraff and CRI for putting together a cruise, let's do the same for every church and religious organization that's sponsored a cruise or foreign travel.
It's not the thing I would chose to make a priority of if I was in leadership in an organization, but CRI by no means alone in doing this sort of thing. The church I'm a member of even did a tour to Israel several years ago (haven't done another one since then and have resumed a focus on mission trips instead, thankfully).
On the money thing:
.nile, have you checked to see if the materials are offered for free or at a reduced price to those who can't afford them, or have you simply assumed they are not? Much of the information in the CRJ is eventually put on the website, for free.
And on the claim that it's "gossip"
Every issue I have seen has articles heavily documented with many footnotes - not gossip. Elliot Miller's work appears to be especially thorough and well researched. I think the magazine is well worth the cover price, if the articles are relevant to one's situation.
Personally, I'd rather buy it from the store because CRI is rather heavy on the fundraising appeals if one is subscribed.
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less junk, more Jesus
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 4:36:12 PM
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earthless
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FYI - the Christian Research Journal is free on the CRI website.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 4:42:14 PM
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.nile.
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I, rather, have wondered where the dividing line is for plain gossip and faulfinding rather sound warnings and expounding of sound Gospel. I see that iron sharpens iron. If one does not want to partake in Grace of Giving, one does not have that Grace to look forward to when the accounting comes for opportunities that were not made the most of; instead. An unsettled account, can be in one's favor at The Judgement as an accounts receivable if done in private as you said; otherwise all accounts are settled for the money was already gained.
quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
On the cruise thing:
If we're going to criticize Hank Hanegraff and CRI for putting together a cruise, let's do the same for every church and religious organization that's sponsored a cruise or foreign travel.
It's not the thing I would chose to make a priority of if I was in leadership in an organization, but CRI by no means alone in doing this sort of thing. The church I'm a member of even did a tour to Israel several years ago (haven't done another one since then and have resumed a focus on mission trips instead, thankfully).
On the money thing:
.nile, have you checked to see if the materials are offered for free or at a reduced price to those who can't afford them, or have you simply assumed they are not? Much of the information in the CRJ is eventually put on the website, for free.
And on the claim that it's "gossip"
Every issue I have seen has articles heavily documented with many footnotes - not gossip. Elliot Miller's work appears to be especially thorough and well researched. I think the magazine is well worth the cover price, if the articles are relevant to one's situation.
Personally, I'd rather buy it from the store because CRI is rather heavy on the fundraising appeals if one is subscribed.
< Message edited by .nile. -- 8/25/2008 6:03:52 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 4:55:04 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .nile.
On the contrary, I would be honored to attend and be there for the trip.
Great, enjoy.
quote:
ORIGINAL: .nile.
I, rather, have wondered where the dividing line is for plain gossip and faultfinding rather sound warnings and expounding of sound Gospel.
The dividing line is when it is done for no reason other than to fault find and offer no solutions or truth/correction.
quote:
ORIGINAL: .nile.
I see that iron sharpens iron.
And often results in sparks to fly...
quote:
ORIGINAL: .nile.
If one does not want to partake in Grace of Giving, one does not have that Grace to look forward to when the accounting comes for opportunities that were not made the most of; instead. An unsettled account, can be in one's favor at The Judgement as an accounts receivable if done in private as you said; otherwise all accounts are settled for the money was already gained.
Which is why we are called to be good stewards of what God allows us to manage.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 5:19:45 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2588
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quote:
Why don't some churches follow the online pod cast format like Crystal Cathedral, with language translators, so they can spread The Word when some cannot attend the events?
I wouldn't say that Schuller (sp?) is spreading the Word. The prosperity and feel-good gospel, but not the total Word of God
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 5:22:05 PM
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bride48
Posts: 5350
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From: Near Boston
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Why don't some churches follow the online pod cast format like Crystal Cathedral, with language translators, so they can spread The Word when some cannot attend the events?
I wouldn't say that Schuller (sp?) is spreading the Word. The prosperity and feel-good gospel, but not the total Word of God
Bingo!
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
The General and the Poet (blog entry)
<--Taken on August 24, 2008: our 6th anniversary
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 5:38:10 PM
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.nile.
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If someone wants to make people feel bad and condemned to hell in Judging everyone, instead, I wouldn't want to find their podcast anyway.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Why don't some churches follow the online pod cast format like Crystal Cathedral, with language translators, so they can spread The Word when some cannot attend the events?
I wouldn't say that Schuller (sp?) is spreading the Word. The prosperity and feel-good gospel, but not the total Word of God
Bingo!
< Message edited by .nile. -- 8/25/2008 6:03:12 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 5:43:06 PM
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bride48
Posts: 5350
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Near Boston
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .nile.
If someone wants to make people feel bad and condemned to hell in Judging everyone, instead, I wouldn't want to find their podcast anyway. I see that Greg Laurie has no Harvest Crusade podcast for anyone but Orange County rich folks that would join only his brand of Church. Only they are the 'remnant' of course. Otherwise, he would not be able to charge for his uncertified Colleges. So 'not prosperity' in action!?
quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Why don't some churches follow the online pod cast format like Crystal Cathedral, with language translators, so they can spread The Word when some cannot attend the events?
I wouldn't say that Schuller (sp?) is spreading the Word. The prosperity and feel-good gospel, but not the total Word of God
Bingo!
How do you propose that Hanagraaf finance his ministry, anyway?
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
The General and the Poet (blog entry)
<--Taken on August 24, 2008: our 6th anniversary
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 6:27:50 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .nile.
If someone wants to make people feel bad and condemned to hell in Judging everyone, instead, I wouldn't want to find their podcast anyway.
When you love someone you tell them the truth. Truth is not always gentle, or full of fuzzy feelings.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 6:30:04 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5735
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
How do you propose that Hanagraaf finance his ministry, anyway?
We have to ask ourselves if the problem is with someone making a salary for a job or monies from being an author.. or if the problem is that this individual and ministry "touch the anointed" that have been placed in high places by some?
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 6:40:35 PM
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.nile.
Posts: 75
Joined: 8/12/2008
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One can not touch the 'anointed' of mammon, can they? Not any 'builders of the free' would have posted Hank here, would they have? For the peace that passes understanding is all that matters in salem land.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
How do you propose that Hanagraaf finance his ministry, anyway?
We have to ask ourselves if the problem is with someone making a salary for a job or monies from being an author.. or if the problem is that this individual and ministry "touch the anointed" that have been placed in high places by some?
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 6:52:04 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5735
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .nile.
One can not touch the 'anointed' of mammon, can they? Not any 'builders of the free' would have posted Hank here, would they have? For the peace that passes understanding is all that matters in salem land.
So your problem is that people make a salary? Can I ask you what dollar amount is OK with you so that we won't be over your anointed of mammon limit?
Seriously, I am simply a civil servant.. but perhaps I make too much money according to your standards. Can you please list what the amount is that you would not have a problem with?
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 6:54:36 PM
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earthless
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.nile.
A poster that used to post here named .prophetica had these same arguments as you. I asked him/her this question and never received a response to it. Can I run it by you? It is from a post of mine from page 2 of this thread:
As for CRI charging for books they sell being a bad thing? One can certainly hold to that conviction, if you're able to give stuff away for free, that is so awesome!
As for Hank taking vacations with his family? I am sure he does. Again, if you're going to hold to the conviction that no one in ministry should ever take vacations with their families, that is certainly a conviction you can rightfully hold.
As I shared in the Ministers sub-forum, there is a solid reason why I have never received a single penny for any of my work in the ministry and why I continue not to collect a single red cent. I prefer to make my living, provide for my family, take all the vacations I want, based off of the money I receive at my job and so that then when I do indeed do ministry, it is done without any hang ups or worries about how much they are going to give me.
So the question becomes those I asked in the post right before this one. I look forward to your answers, thank you.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 8/25/2008 7:01:29 PM
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.nile.
Posts: 75
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I care very little how much people make in money off of their writings. I do not see that those monies are what was important. I only hope to encourage a little thoughtful discourse by asserting sound Scripture, if I am at all capable of understanding it. If one received their 'blessings' in this life, Christ taught that they may not enter paradise for ignoring the opportunity to have Mercy on people which is the weightier matters of Scriptural Prophecy and Gospel. For Jesus said I Will have Mercy on them that I will have Mercy. Mercy truimphs over Judgement.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: .nile.
One can not touch the 'anointed' of mammon, can they? Not any 'builders of the free' would have posted Hank here, would they have? For the peace that passes understanding is all that matters in sal | | | |
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