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Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/30/2008 6:54:09 PM
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fallenstar
Posts: 74
Joined: 11/29/2007
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I seriously think that the only reason most people are Christian is so they won't go to hell when they die. Think about it. Without punishment, or Satan or evil, there would'nt be a reason for religon in general. Religon is all about how you live your life, and what happens to you when you die. Is'nt God's love enough? Why can't the joy of God be all you need, not some kind of reward for good behavior? The reason why priests and ministers convert other people to their religon is to save them from going to some spritual inferno of eternal torture. I just feel that if there was no heaven or hell, or reincarnation and karma, or whatever your theory is that people would'nt believe in God. Am I right? Or is God's love enough?
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/30/2008 7:03:37 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1980
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quote:
I just feel that if there was no heaven or hell, or reincarnation and karma, or whatever your theory is that people would'nt believe in God. Am I right? Or is God's love enough?
God's love is enough and would have been enough, had there been no rebellion and no sin against God.
Hell was created for the devil and his angels because they rebelled. Humans who reject the Gospel face Hell because rejecting Christ and the Gospel is also rebellion. So the problem boils down to man's sin and rebellion.
Had all creatures continued to love and obey God without reservation, there would only be love, joy, and peace today.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/30/2008 7:12:25 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 2798
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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Amen Ezra.
For some reason it's hard for some to grasp that hell was "never" intended for man.
Yet, if we reject God's love, we get the same destination as our father (Satan).
I'm grateful we can make the Lord our Father and receive the inheritance provided by Jesus.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/30/2008 9:21:03 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2139
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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Do you mean, "Is loving God enough motivation for serving Him and believing in Him?" The answer is "no".
Scripture says that "God is a consuming fire." And it says, "Knowing the fear of God, we persuade men."
If it were enough, then there would be no need for punishment.
_____________________________
Larry
Granddaughter, Skyler Lynn was born July 1, 2008.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/30/2008 10:29:13 PM
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propitiated4
Posts: 678
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
I seriously think that the only reason most people are Christian is so they won't go to hell when they die. Think about it. Without punishment, or Satan or evil, there would'nt be a reason for religon in general. Religon is all about how you live your life, and what happens to you when you die. Is'nt God's love enough? Why can't the joy of God be all you need, not some kind of reward for good behavior? The reason why priests and ministers convert other people to their religon is to save them from going to some spritual inferno of eternal torture. I just feel that if there was no heaven or hell, or reincarnation and karma, or whatever your theory is that people would'nt believe in God. Am I right? Or is God's love enough?
There is nothing wrong with fearing the wrath of God because it's what we deserve. But if it's the only reason one calls themself a Christian I would wonder. It isn't the fear alone of hell that saves, but the fear of the Lord and His wrath toward our sin (which the consequence is hell), rebirth (with which we cannot birth ourselves) , repentance, and trust in Christ as the only way to be saved from the wrath of the Lord. The Bible doesn't say heaven is a reward for good behavior, it says it's salvation from the alternative. Why would God reward us for something He does? The word does say we are rewarded in heaven but not that heaven is a reward. Christ provides that salvation to all who believe. God's love is what keeps believers from hell and what sustains them as believers. So of course it's enough.
_____________________________
Romans 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/30/2008 10:36:06 PM
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Don675
Posts: 82
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I would say to escape hell by accepting JESUS CHRIST as SAVIOUR is
a pretty good motivation. However i go to a BIBLE study and they stress
serving JESUS out of love in that he took the punishment for our sins.
Imagine coming from the glories of heaven to pay the price for our sins.
I try to think of that often and that he loves us even though we are
unworthy[if we will accept his gift of eternal life through faith in him].
DONK
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/30/2008 11:12:17 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1617
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From: Kansas
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quote:
I seriously think that the only reason most people are Christian is so they won't go to hell when they die.
There are a whole gathering of people who go to church because they fear hell and the wrath of God. The problem is these people really have no love for Christ, they have never received the Holy Spirit, and so their method of achieving salvation is through works. Because these people in their present state will see hell, the fear of God doesn’t do them much good. These are people such as Paul is talking to in Galatians 3:1.
No, I think the key ingredient is love for God and that is only generated through the Holy Spirit.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 12:23:44 AM
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iSERVEaJEW
Posts: 445
Joined: 3/29/2008
From: Canada
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I think that the reason we believe in Him is His grace. If it weren't for His grace none of us would know Him.
_____________________________
Saved by His grace alone.
Called to be His disciple and imitating Him.
Keeping the Torah with zeal.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/JonesWTC911SciMethod.pdf
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 2:28:18 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
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From: Brampton,Ontario
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quote:
I seriously think that the only reason most people are Christian is so they won't go to hell when they die.
Then they are not christians.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 10:42:55 AM
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heavensmailman
Posts: 97
Joined: 2/23/2008
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Is a mother's and father's love enough to keep their child from disobeying them? Does not every child test their parent's love?
Do the parents stop loving their child because they disobeyed?
Do we not test our Father's love for us when we sin?
A child does not think, I will test my parents love for me, nor do we think about testing our Father love for us when we sin, but we are.
God's love is not enough for some, they want everything their way.
Some do not want to love God, and will not except his love for them.
We have jails for the ones who can not live with us in peace.
God has hell for those who do not love him and do not want to be with him, even though his love for them will never stop.
We should love and obey God, because we are his children and he is our Father. We should want to please him, because he loves us, and we love him.
If our greatest fear is going to hell, then we don't love our Father!
If we love and obey our Father, we need not fear going to hell!
John-3:16 " For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
But sadly--Matthew-22:14 Jesus said: " For many are invited, but few are chosen."
Peace
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 11:11:07 AM
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propitiated4
Posts: 678
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iSERVEaJEW
I think that the reason we believe in Him is His grace. If it weren't for His grace none of us would know Him.
At the expense of sounding cliche...Amen!!
_____________________________
Romans 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 11:41:01 AM
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seagullplayer
Posts: 104
Joined: 9/18/2007
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People don't get to right with God by running from hell, they get right by running to Jesus.
Do you stay with your wife because you fear her wrath if you left, or because you love being with her?
_____________________________
The world has only one problem, sin.
There is only one solution, Jesus.
THE WAY.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 12:32:07 PM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 692
Joined: 12/11/2007
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I think that there's a lot of people who come to God because of fear of hell. But eventually, they either fall away, or fall in love with Jesus and hell becomes the farthest thing from their mind when it comes to their faith. You can tell a genuine Christian by their love for Christ, and fear of being separated from Him, not their fear of hell.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 1:06:35 PM
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Him4all
Posts: 415
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From: Kansas
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I'd been raised in the church and came into disfavor and condemnation. I quit the church and decided I WAS going to hell and I didn't care because I knew most of the world was going to be there with me.
I was not drawn to Him from fear of eternal hell. His love...and grace were sufficient...AMEN.
DR
_____________________________
Doctrine learned and not lived is lost.
Eyes closed to advice may still be open to example.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 1:14:00 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3583
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Don675
I would say to escape hell by accepting JESUS CHRIST as SAVIOUR is
a pretty good motivation. I would say accepting Jesus as savior only to escape hell is insufficient. You would then fall into the category of "...Depart from me workers of iniquity, I never knew you."
Proper relationships cannot be made on the basis of fear of torture.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 1:43:38 PM
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LCannon
Posts: 1308
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
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"The [human]heart is deceitful above all things and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?"(Jeremiah 17:9)
Even without the sure judgment of hell and the added encouragement of Satan mankind is born to evil. Hell isn't a destination it's a result of destiny.
_____________________________
"[Prayer power] hasn't never been taxed to[His]full capacity. His standing challenge, 'Call on
Me and I will answer with great and mighty things which thou can't imagine." Hudson Tayor
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 1:45:51 PM
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perfectWeakness129
Posts: 49
Joined: 10/7/2005
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Question that may impact this thread: If Christ never came and you were still in your sin, would He still be worthy of all your worship?
If God wants to send(cast) me to hell in His soverignty, that sucks, but I will still do my damnedest (pun intended) to worship Him becuase his worth does not depend on my salvation.
PS. Luckily I know I'm redeemed and sealed with the Holy Spirit of God.
_____________________________
"If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it." -Mark 8:34b-35
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 1:55:37 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 1937
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However, can we really be "saved" without having an understanding of what we are being saved from?
_____________________________
-Ben-
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 2:31:13 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3583
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
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Hell and its attending torture is a peripheral subject. We are saved from being seperated from God.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 2:31:33 PM
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LCannon
Posts: 1308
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
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quote:
Question that may impact this thread: If Christ never came and you were still in your sin, would He still be worthy of all your worship?
Yes. God is; God is not, not.
_____________________________
"[Prayer power] hasn't never been taxed to[His]full capacity. His standing challenge, 'Call on
Me and I will answer with great and mighty things which thou can't imagine." Hudson Tayor
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 2:54:06 PM
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perfectWeakness129
Posts: 49
Joined: 10/7/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LCannon
quote:
Question that may impact this thread: If Christ never came and you were still in your sin, would He still be worthy of all your worship?
Yes. God is; God is not, not.
Sorry, lost you...
_____________________________
"If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it." -Mark 8:34b-35
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 3:06:19 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 1937
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Hell and its attending torture is a peripheral subject. We are saved from being seperated from God.
What I am saying is, how can we understand and accept the fullness of grace if we don't realize all that the price of the cross bought for us?
_____________________________
-Ben-
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 6:04:26 PM
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Don675
Posts: 82
Joined: 11/5/2007
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BOB97,
Are we saved by putting our faith and trust in JESUS CHRIST to save
us from our sins or not?
DONK
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 8:52:23 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1617
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Don675...of course! If we accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God, that he died and gave his blood on the cross for our sins; that He was resurrected and lives again...you bet!
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 3/31/2008 8:54:08 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1617
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Don...and by the way...He lives in me.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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