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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/2/2008 4:33:11 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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Jesus was accused of being a glutton, it was not simply saying he ate or drank too much.
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/2/2008 4:39:47 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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go ahead with the bacon and the sausage too. 
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/2/2008 6:16:15 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
Here is what I have been able to find out:
Gluttony: Hebrew from zalal, "to shake," hence to "be loose" morally.
A debauchee (Deuteronomy 21:20; Proverbs 23:21); "gluttonous" (Proverbs 23:20; 28:27), meaning a free liver, one who is unrestrained (Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:34 Another definition for "glutton" comes from The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, which says, in part, "zalel, "to be lavish; ... To shake or pour out, ... to be lavish, a squanderer."
This is interesting. It sounds to me like "to over-do" is the issue.
But around these forums, I've seen it used many, many times in reference to fat people. And why isn't the church worrying about gluttony (being fat) the way it fusses about other sins.
To look at a person's appearance and label them as a glutton is just as ignorant as the hicks around here (where I live) who say they can tell just by looking at someone that they're gay. 
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/2/2008 6:41:17 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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I, too, view gluttony as in over-indulging in something.
Food is the most common "thing" that I associate gluttony with; although people can be gluttons with anything if over-indulgence is involved.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It's very hard for me to go to buffets because of the way that some people truly do make food gluttons of theirselves. It actually makes me physically ill.
I don't go around policing the restaurant and inspecting people's plates, but I do have peripheral vision and sometimes it's just hard not to notice the way some people are piling the foods on their plates.
Last year I went to an art festival in a different state, and I was appalled at how much food people seemed to be consuming. Sadly, the vast majority of those people were severely obese; they made me look tiny.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Actually, I think that the majority of us (myself included) are gluttons at one point or another; some of us more so than others. I also think that it's one of the most "winked-over" sins within the Christian community.
Having said all that, I certainly agree that not all heavy people are food gluttons, and that there are also skinny people who are huge (pardon the unintentional pun) food gluttons.
edited: goofy typo
< Message edited by WhiteRoseBlessings -- 4/2/2008 6:47:59 PM >
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/2/2008 6:57:09 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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it's pretty hard to find overeating as sin, supported in the bible. and then, is it a sin to eat too much at christmas? how many scoops of ice cream on friday? if you're 10 pounds overwight is a twinkie a sin? if you're skinny, can you eat as much as you want? what about eating junk food? we tend to frown at an overweight person eating a donut, but not a skinny one?
i think the whole sin thing should be left out of it and it should be treated as a health issue.
"the seven deadly sins" is a man made list.
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/2/2008 7:01:45 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
Here is what I have been able to find out:
Gluttony: Hebrew from zalal, "to shake," hence to "be loose" morally.
A debauchee (Deuteronomy 21:20; Proverbs 23:21); "gluttonous" (Proverbs 23:20; 28:27), meaning a free liver, one who is unrestrained (Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:34 Another definition for "glutton" comes from The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, which says, in part, "zalel, "to be lavish; ... To shake or pour out, ... to be lavish, a squanderer."
This is interesting. It sounds to me like "to over-do" is the issue.
But around these forums, I've seen it used many, many times in reference to fat people. And why isn't the church worrying about gluttony (being fat) the way it fusses about other sins.
To look at a person's appearance and label them as a glutton is just as ignorant as the hicks around here (where I live) who say they can tell just by looking at someone that they're gay.
it's not just overdoing it.
Strong's Number: 02151 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
llz a primitive root [compare (02107)]
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Zalal TWOT - 553
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
zaw-lal' Verb
Definition
to be worthless, be vile, be insignificant, be light
(Qal)
to be worthless, be insignificant
to make light of, squander, be lavish with
to shake, tremble, quake
(Niphal) to shake, quake
King James Word Usage - Total: 8
flow down 2, vile 2, glutton 2, riotous eaters 1, riotous 1
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/2/2008 7:02:05 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
it's pretty hard to find overeating as sin, supported in the bible. and then, is it a sin to eat too much at christmas? how many scoops of ice cream on friday? if you're 10 pounds overwight is a twinkie a sin? if you're skinny, can you eat as much as you want? what about eating junk food? we tend to frown at an overweight person eating a donut, but not a skinny one? As I said in my last post, I do believe that there are overweight people who are not gluttons and skinny people who are. Gluttony is not about what one eats; it's about eating it in excess.
And yes, overeating is gluttony, regardless of whether it happens during a holiday or not.
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/2/2008 7:08:08 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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but does the bible describe guttony as overeating? too many calories? where?
here's a verse to confuse things:
proverbs 28:25
He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat. kjv
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/2/2008 7:15:36 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
squander, be lavish with
The above was taken from your above post . . . and it pretty much sums up what someone does when they overeat.
To put a calorie limit on what is considered gluttonous is the same thing as putting measurement requirements on hair length. I'm not into legalism.
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/2/2008 7:19:42 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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there is sin possible in hair length?
lavish, squander is a part of the description. glutton always refers to rebellious people in the bible. not of people that have a vice to let go of.
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/2/2008 7:32:23 PM
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faithfulservant_
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quote:
original: mrsdash
Glutton always refers to rebellious people in the bible. The words are not used to speak of an average person overeating.
Please read this verse again, carefully.
"Do not be with heavy drinkers of wine, Or with gluttonous eaters of meat; For the heavy drinker and the glutton will come to poverty, And drowsiness will clothe one with rags."
(Proverbs 23:17-21)
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/2/2008 7:38:28 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faithfulservant1
quote:
original: mrsdash
Glutton always refers to rebellious people in the bible. The words are not used to speak of an average person overeating.
Please read this verse again, carefully.
"Do not be with heavy drinkers of wine, Or with gluttonous eaters of meat; For the heavy drinker and the glutton will come to poverty, And drowsiness will clothe one with rags."
(Proverbs 23:17-21)
i have. please find ONE verse that speaks of gluttonous behavior apart from the description of a rebellious ungodly person. it is part of a profile and the definition of the word bears that out. read the whole definition of the word.
neither is that verse suggesting that it would be wrong to be with someone that is eating too much.
< Message edited by mrsdash -- 4/2/2008 7:44:46 PM >
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/2/2008 7:49:07 PM
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bluestone
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So gluttony is actually rebellion and perhaps waste....
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/3/2008 11:38:32 AM
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hotsaucygma
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That's the way I think of it Bluestone.
The verse quoted also has me thinking (I know, dangerous!). The last half says "For the heavy drinker and the glutton will come to poverty, and drowsiness will clothe one with rags."; Ya know, after a "holiday" feed fest, most folks do feel "drowsy" and rather lazy. After drinking "heavily" in an evening, most folks feel pretty tired out the next day...
Hmmmm.
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/3/2008 12:44:39 PM
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bluestone
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Once again the Bible teaches moderation.
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/3/2008 1:40:43 PM
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elastic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
Once again the Bible teaches moderation.
..and even then, what is moderation? what some consider moderation i.e. a 2 bedroom house in a suburb for a family of 3, might seem extravagant and wasteful to a family of 15 who lives in the same size house.
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/3/2008 1:43:12 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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Elastic, that's a very good point . . . of which I could probably discuss both sides of it.
Very thought-provoking.
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/3/2008 1:48:12 PM
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hotsaucygma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
Elastic, that's a very good point . . . of which I could probably discuss both sides of it.
Very thought-provoking.
I agree, it is a good point. It's one of the reasons I think that it is seldom that God says exactly the same thing to every person, why I often disagree with some of the more rigid opnions expressed. God knows each of us and what is in our heart, He speaks to us with/through His word as each of us needs to hear it, imo.
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Dear Lord, let my words today be as sweet and delicious as cheesecake... for tomorrow I may have to eat them!
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/4/2008 2:40:45 PM
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daniellep79
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Here is a verse:
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.."
Ezekial 16:49 (NIV)
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RE: what is gluttony? - 4/4/2008 4:00:44 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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quote:
ORIGINAL: daniellep79
Here is a verse:
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.."
Ezekial 16:49 (NIV)
yes, one should definately avoid harlotry, false gods and share with the poor.
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