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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/11/2008 12:45:35 PM
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percussionlover
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i agree with u totally kat....sure we all sin daily & we must be of a repentive heart & ask forgiveness & Jesus will forgive & forget. my only point is that this person is very involved in our church. his crime had nothing to do with children etc....this guy is on fire 4 God in every aspect of his life & u can see it. i know he's accountable to a few in church,but noone in the congregation dosent seem to have a problem with him or his family. they're all very loving to him & his family. what i think is very wrong in the state i live in is that the state goverment wants to forbid sex offenders from volenteering at churchs etc...& it states that they cannot attend church etc..cause theyre kids there.its really crazy.....whats next,,,they cant go anywhere cause kids are everywhere someone goes....(grocery shopping,shopping,beach,movie theatre,etc......just living your life & going about ones life,you'll always encounter kids) what do they want to do ,,put them on a deserted island or something???? i think its really aweful if someone is saved or wanting to go to church & theyre a sex offender that the goverment says you cant go.pretty soon the govt will be telling the average person they cant go... also....noones mentioned this::::why arent there registry's for....murderers...bank robbers....drug dealers etc.....i think a murderer is far more worse than a sex offender........think about it. the whole thing is very one sided & political especially during the states local elections etc.....if a women is a sex offender,,the media glorifies it & say its a boys rite of passage but when its a guy they nail him to the wall. but think about what i said about murderers etc....should there be a registry for them & arent they far worse????? quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D quote:
Being saved does not mean you suddenly stop being tempted and suddenly become perfect. Bingo! How many people do you think we see in Pastoral Care who have fallen back into sin? Answer: Many! It does not matter what their sin is, be it drinking, fornication, lying, backbiting...we see people every day that, while they are saved, have backslidden and are struggling again with their sin. Sexual predators are certainly no less prone to sin again, are they? Discernment, discernment, discernment!!!!!
< Message edited by percussionlover -- 4/11/2008 12:52:33 PM >
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/11/2008 12:58:13 PM
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Memaw.
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As the mother of a "sex offender", this concerns me. I wonder about when he is released from prison will he be able to follow what God has placed on his heart to do, or will mans' laws dictate? Saul (Paul) was a murderer, yet we follow his instructions to the church. David was an adulterer, but the "apple of Gods' eye". Yes, I do believe we are to use discernment, with anyone in a ministry position, but I do also believed that sin forgiven should be sin forgotten.
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~Kimmie  When you go through menopause they don't tell you what you are becoming. I think I'm becoming my Dad.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/11/2008 1:09:10 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
Yes, I do believe we are to use discernment, with anyone in a ministry position, but I do also believed that sin forgiven should be sin forgotten. Discernment needs to be used with all people, not just ministry positions. With sex crimes in particular, while we can forgive offenders, we cannot forget what they've done. We have to watch out for one another and for them. When your son comes out, Memaw, I would suggest you get him connected with several strong Christian men who will disciple him and not be afraid to challenge his thinking. Percussionlover, As I stated earlier, the registry has had more than enough unintended consequences. UNfortunately, the politicians play on our fears by promising to pass leglislation that is going to make us feel more secure. These promises, however, aree often empty as they lack the funding to put real teeth in the legislation. I noticed in an article that I read that some states were wanting to make sex offenders use special license plates. When we rely on the government to solve ourt problems for us, they get it wrong most of the time. We also fail to use discernment because we figure that the government is watching out for us.
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You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. A. Lincoln
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/11/2008 1:30:57 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud Exactly. This is not a question of whether or not we are to love them (yes we are). This is not a question of whether all sex offenders are child molestors (they aren't). This is not a question of whether they can be saved (they can). This is a question of what the church's response should be. And no where in Scripture does it say that we should trust everyone implicitly just because they are saved (or say they are saved). Being saved does not mean you suddenly stop being tempted and suddenly become perfect. I've never said they shouldn't be allowed in church. What I've said is that because of their past, some things may not be appropriate for them to do. And, that since there are many offenders who have never been caught, we should always be on the watch for wolves that would harm not only our children but other believers. Awesome post - thank you.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/11/2008 1:58:18 PM
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percussionlover
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what about the point i made that why arent murderers/drug dealers/bank robbers on their own registry. especially murderers,which is far more worse than a sex offender. i'd like to know about a murderer just getting out of prison living by me. nobody/media/politician seem to talk about that situation especially when theres murderers coming out of prison. why isnt there a registry for murderers???dosent the attorny genereral take them serious or worried about them....
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/11/2008 2:00:52 PM
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earthless
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From: where bbq pigeons roast....
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There are - Vines Apriss and other victim's warning networks.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/11/2008 2:24:25 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4591
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover what about the point i made that why arent murderers/drug dealers/bank robbers on their own registry. especially murderers,which is far more worse than a sex offender. i'd like to know about a murderer just getting out of prison living by me. nobody/media/politician seem to talk about that situation especially when theres murderers coming out of prison. I would disagee that murder is worse that rape and abuse of a child. But the reason for the registry is the extremely high rate of reoffending by sexual offenders; especialy with pedeophiles. Murderers, for the main part, do not reoffend. Thanks RC
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/11/2008 3:22:18 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 7644
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From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw. Yes, I do believe we are to use discernment, with anyone in a ministry position, but I do also believed that sin forgiven should be sin forgotten. Forgiving someone does not mean forgetting. The child who was molested and the woman who was raped will never be able to forget what was done to them. Never. Paul never forgot what he did in persecuting believers. He was forgiven, but what he did wasn't forgotten. Let me give you a case in point: Several years back we had a board member of our church. Highly respected man who gave much to the church. I worked with him in leadership in our music ministry. If I had kids, I would have trusted him implicitly with my children. Turns out, years earlier, he had molested a child in another state. He had repented and tried to get his life together. No one but his wife knew about this. When we ran our routine background checks, nothing came up because the crime had happened in another state. Fast forward. He is arrested for molesting his grand-daughter (not in the church). We are completely shocked. Here was a man we all loved and respected. We trusted him. When our pastor went to visit him in jail, he only wept that he was a "sick, sick man". God had forgiven him for his last offense. It was "forgotten" because no one knew about it. And now, there is another child whose life has forever been changed by his act. This didn't have to happen. And now, one more child will never be the same. This sin has such a hold on some folks. This isn't like stopping cussing. One mess up there, one deviation there isn't going to cause anyone irreperable harm. This sin will... One mistake. One temptation not overcome. It destroys. That's why it must be taken seriously and never "forgotten". Forgiven yes, forgotten no. We have another man in our church who has a long past filled with all kinds of sick crimes - from sex crimes to kidnapping, etc. From all that we have seen, he has done a complete 180. He truly is making a difference for Jesus. The church supports him in that. But, if he ever wants to watch our kids, he won't be allowed. That doesn't mean he doesn't have a ministry - he does - full-time in fact. That just means we aren't going to risk the most innocent of our flock in hopes that he doesn't make one slip up that will destroy them.
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~Kristin~ The easily offended... Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/11/2008 3:49:06 PM
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zamdad
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Several years ago, in my blog, I wrote about a man I interviewed for a pre-sentence investigation. He was going to prison, this time, for selling meth. He had been to prison previously for a sex crime and for selling dope. The man told the jailer that he wanted to see me. Seeing as I had to complete this interview, I went to the jail to see what he wanted and complete the interview. He told me he had been attending the weekly Bible study sessions in the jail and that he wanted to recommit his life to Christ. He wanted to go to a Christian treatment program in the metro area instead of going to prison. He went on to tell me that his father had been a minister and that he had a close relationship with his father, but had wandered away from the faith. As I began the interview, it became apparent to me that he was a con man. He knew the language; he was fluent in Chritianese. He also knew the church. He had been raised in the church. He knew that he could come to church on Sunday’s and attend other services, tell the pastor and the congregation that he was a changed man and that the majority of the people in the church would believe him. He knew that no one would come to his home or enter his private world. As long as he could maintain the façade required for the superficiality of church, that everyone would praise God for his repentance. The PSI interview is very probing. It became crystal clear to me that he had no desire to change. He wanted God to get him out of his circumstances, not to change his heart. Knowing how to manipulate people in the manner he does, he would continue his drug using and selling and would continue to use vulnerable women/girls in the congregation for his own prurient desires. This happens in churches all too frequently because we are not discerning. We all too frequently ignore that prompting in our gut that tells us something is amiss because we fear being judged as judgmental.
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You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. A. Lincoln
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/11/2008 4:48:46 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover especially murderers,which is far more worse than a sex offender. Not necessarily... as a victim of sexual assault when I was child, may I say, that for some victims, death might be preferrable. For a murder victim, the pain is over after the crime is committed, whereas the pain from a sexual assault lasts a life time.
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~Kat "...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying." I weep for those who won't experience this because they have been deceived.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/11/2008 10:55:14 PM
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29redballoons
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From: Georgia
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I am posting blindly, so please forgive me if I am out of line but I had to deal with this several years ago, and I offended some people in a local church. We visited this church...I saw a man in the congregation that I KNOW molested a friend of my daughter's and they did not press charges. The molested child went to counseling and thru the grace of God is fine and the molestation was not "as serious" as it could have been as it was interrupted. Well, long story short, my dd was invited to attend a youth outing...we struggled and finally, I spoke with the youth leader (not a pastor) and shared what I knew. They were offended that I felt my dd would not be safe uunless I informed them of this fact and that since he had not been convicted I was out of line. We did not let dd go, nor did we visit there anymore. This guy was not registered and he was a repeat offender...one daughter and the friend. His wife covered for him so he was never charged of either. What would you have done? I know we are to love them, but not at the expense of our children.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/11/2008 11:01:34 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 29redballoons I am posting blindly, so please forgive me if I am out of line but I had to deal with this several years ago, and I offended some people in a local church. We visited this church...I saw a man in the congregation that I KNOW molested a friend of my daughter's and they did not press charges. The molested child went to counseling and thru the grace of God is fine and the molestation was not "as serious" as it could have been as it was interrupted. Well, long story short, my dd was invited to attend a youth outing...we struggled and finally, I spoke with the youth leader (not a pastor) and shared what I knew. They were offended that I felt my dd would not be safe uunless I informed them of this fact and that since he had not been convicted I was out of line. We did not let dd go, nor did we visit there anymore. This guy was not registered and he was a repeat offender...one daughter and the friend. His wife covered for him so he was never charged of either. What would you have done? I know we are to love them, but not at the expense of our children. Check the statute of limitations in your state. How was he not prosecuted? Who knew and failed to report it? This is why so many offenders have so many victims. If the child reported this to an adult and that adult(s) never reported it, they are guilty of neglect. If the pastor and the church staff were aware, it makes them complicit as well. I'm not sure of the law in your state, but here in MN clergy are considered mandatory reporters.
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You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. A. Lincoln
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/12/2008 8:38:26 AM
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29redballoons
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It DID NOT happen at the church. I am sorry if my post implied that. It happened previously and then I was the guy at a church we were visiting. As far as I know, the mom knew, the child of course...approx 12, the wife, and of course the guy. His daughters eventually found out, because the friend couldn't visit anymore. There was a report, but the police stated not enough evidence to charge. He was showing her porn and being excited with her watching I whited out the act so as not to offend anyone. Anyway, I still feel I did the right thing by informing them...they however did not, because I was "judging" a man that was not convicted.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/12/2008 10:35:34 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 4591
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 29redballoons It DID NOT happen at the church. I am sorry if my post implied that. It happened previously and then I was the guy at a church we were visiting. As far as I know, the mom knew, the child of course...approx 12, the wife, and of course the guy. His daughters eventually found out, because the friend couldn't visit anymore. There was a report, but the police stated not enough evidence to charge. He was showing her porn and being excited with her watching I whited out the act so as not to offend anyone. Anyway, I still feel I did the right thing by informing them...they however did not, because I was "judging" a man that was not convicted. I am with Zamdad on this one. If there was molestation and adults knew about it I do not see how prosecution was avoided. You are in a real sticky wickett of a situation. If i did not happen, was made up by the girl for whatever reason and you go around telling folks things that may not be true; that will not bode well for you. If the mother told you, then you should go to the mother and talk her into going to the authorities and filing charges. If the guy is a pedeophile he needs to be off the streets or at least on a registry. As a Pastor if someone came and accused someone in my Church of such, I would have asked them to go with me and visit the child's mother to seek out the truth. If the mother said it was true, then I would go to the authorities with the information. I would also tell the person who came to me to not be passing around inuendos about anyone, including the man in question. Thanks RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/12/2008 11:59:18 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1066
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quote:
It DID NOT happen at the church. Doesn't matter where it happened. If the police and the prosecutor decided not to charge, reporting it was still the right thing to do. Also, if your gut tells you that your kids are possibly not safe in the presence of a particular person, go with your gut despite what others may say. Hurt feelings will heal. The wounds of sexual abuse are lifelong.
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You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. A. Lincoln
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/12/2008 2:38:34 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4591
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad quote:
It DID NOT happen at the church. Doesn't matter where it happened. If the police and the prosecutor decided not to charge, reporting it was still the right thing to do. Also, if your gut tells you that your kids are possibly not safe in the presence of a particular person, go with your gut despite what others may say. Hurt feelings will heal. The wounds of sexual abuse are lifelong. I agree here. If you don't trust the guy based on what someone told you, then do not let your kids be exposed to something you see as a danger. But, also do not let gossip and inuendo guide you into destroying the life of an innocent person (if he is innocent). Go back to the morther and start all over again, and go to the authorities. Thanks RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/13/2008 7:26:32 AM
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29redballoons
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From: Georgia
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Thank you for your input...I understand your replies. There was a report, the authorities were notified...there was insufficient evidence. When I said they did not press charges, I meant the police. I did not gossip nor spread it around the church...I told one person in charge of the children. I guess what I should have done was just not let dd go and forget the others. (since there was no evidence) I really thought I was helping, since if my child was going there I would want someone to know. However, this was long ago and we no longer are in that situation. I do understand forgiveness. I also understand that in the eyes of the Lord, we are new creatures once we receive salvation...maybe this is the case with this man and all around him are safe. At least I tried.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/13/2008 8:21:34 AM
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Grace-N-Mercy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D I did research on this for our church, and in the state I live in, convicted sex offenders whose crimes are against children would not be able to attend our church because the law states they cannot come within 2,000 feet of a place where children gather...most states have laws like this...and since, children are always in attendance at our church, it wouldn't work. The person would have to go to a church with an adults only service. This is an extremely complicated issue. Jumping in cold. In my state, as far as I know (laws may have changed) they are allowed to go to church, but they are not allowed to live within so many yards of a church or school or park where children congregate. I remember working with one guy who tearfully asked "You mean I can't go to CHURCH?" I said "No, it just means you cannot live near one." It was sad because the guy was not a violent offender... he was a young man who was involved with a younger lady (who was under 18). Apparently there were more issues, but still, he wanted to turn his life around and I think they SHOULD be able to go to church. Still, we should be very cautious and every church should have safeguards in place to protect their children. We had an incident in our church where a middle-aged man began befriending one of the teenagers, and the men in the church stood up to protect her and we immediately put policies in place. We're to be as innocent as doves and shrewd as snakes (Matt 10:16).
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/13/2008 9:16:48 AM
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percussionlover
Posts: 73
Joined: 2/29/2008
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i really love all the responses to this thread i started.its important. like i said in the begining that the guy who goes to my church is on the registry as a sex offender but his charges were not against children.he is not a child molestor/predator !!! his charges were...attempted sexual battery without violence.... basically he had consentual sex with a woman that was older than him & later cried rape. it was her word against his. at the time (this was over 10 yrs ago) he & his wife were seperated. shortly after this he got back together with his wife after getting saved etc.... he said he pleaded no contest cause he didnt want to take a chance with a jury & be found guilty cause they were going to take her word over his anyways. he said they never arrested him right away,he said it took probaly 6 months before they did & then it was another year of going back n forth to court with continuences etc...in the end he got 5 years probation with no jail time. my point is this.....the media really has to stop putting a black cloud over sex offenders saying that everyone of them is a child molestor/predator just cause theyre on the registry.the media needs to put the focus on the child molestors/predators... in the end it really comes down to politics especially during elections when you hear this topic mentioned more so they can get reelected etc... my point........this guy is very active in my church,,he's very repentive & it shows in his daily walk with Christ. everyone loves him & his family. his entire family is saved. his kids aged..7 & 13 are on fire for the Lord . everytime at church you'll find him on his knees at the alter........................ if Jesus can forgive him & his past is wiped clean,why cant we have a heart like Jesus.... remember......not all sex offenders are child molestors/predators...someone could be on the registry for having consentual sex & the partner got angry & cried rape....he or she couldve been 18 & their partner was 16 1/2 going on 17......maybe they got caught urinating in public.....there could be a million reasons why someones on the registry..... you just dont know if the person sitting next to you is on the registry etccc or have commited murder.... why arent murderers on their own registry.....isnt that just as bad or worse...if theyre out of prison etc....whos to say they wont kill again... in my state sex offenders cant...live/work etc....in a thousand feet of a church,library,park(that includes mcdonalds/burger kings that have those lil playgrounds in them)movie theatre,mall,beach,day care etc....they cant even go to church to worship if they wanted too. soon i heard in my state theyre going to make it almost impossible for them to even leave their house cause they want to pass a law stating whereever kids are which is about everywhere you go if you think about it. they did add to the new law that if you own your own home/property before july 2006 you dont have to move & if a child care,bus stop,church,park is built or moves within a 1000 feet of your property after 2006 you dont have to move etc... they made that law cause the aclu got involved & said it was unconsituional to make someone or a family move if they own their property.... what about the families & children of all the sex offenders that are being told to move etc.....or spend 30 years in prison if they dont comply etc...this also affects the ones who have already done their time and or off of probation etc... the politicians dont think about those children....the children of the offenders.... we have to have a forgiving heart like Jesus.....the slate is wiped clean especially if one is truly repentive & Jesus will know their heart....is that so hard if we're truly a christian.....i dont think so quote:
ORIGINAL: Grace-N-Mercy quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D I did research on this for our church, and in the state I live in, convicted sex offenders whose crimes are against children would not be able to attend our church because the law states they cannot come within 2,000 feet of a place where children gather...most states have laws like this...and since, children are always in attendance at our church, it wouldn't work. The person would have to go to a church with an adults only service. This is an extremely complicated issue. Jumping in cold. In my state, as far as I know (laws may have changed) they are allowed to go to church, but they are not allowed to live within so many yards of a church or school or park where children congregate. I remember working with one guy who tearfully asked "You mean I can't go to CHURCH?" I said "No, it just means you cannot live near one." It was sad because the guy was not a violent offender... he was a young man who was involved with a younger lady (who was under 18). Apparently there were more issues, but still, he wanted to turn his life around and I think they SHOULD be able to go to church. Still, we should be very cautious and every church should have safeguards in place to protect their children. We had an incident in our church where a middle-aged man began befriending one of the teenagers, and the men in the church stood up to protect her and we immediately put policies in place. We're to be as innocent as doves and shrewd as snakes (Matt 10:16).
< Message edited by percussionlover -- 4/13/2008 9:24:14 AM >
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PERCUSSIONLOVER SURFIN FOR JESUS CONGA MAN
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/13/2008 1:48:59 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3397
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Grace-N-Mercy quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D I did research on this for our church, and in the state I live in, convicted sex offenders whose crimes are against children would not be able to attend our church because the law states they cannot come within 2,000 feet of a place where children gather...most states have laws like this...and since, children are always in attendance at our church, it wouldn't work. The person would have to go to a church with an adults only service. This is an extremely complicated issue. Jumping in cold. In my state, as far as I know (laws may have changed) they are allowed to go to church, but they are not allowed to live within so many yards of a church or school or park where children congregate. I remember working with one guy who tearfully asked "You mean I can't go to CHURCH?" I said "No, it just means you cannot live near one." It was sad because the guy was not a violent offender... he was a young man who was involved with a younger lady (who was under 18). Apparently there were more issues, but still, he wanted to turn his life around and I think they SHOULD be able to go to church. Still, we should be very cautious and every church should have safeguards in place to protect their children. We had an incident in our church where a middle-aged man began befriending one of the teenagers, and the men in the church stood up to protect her and we immediately put policies in place. We're to be as innocent as doves and shrewd as snakes (Matt 10:16). You are correct. They cannot live withing 2,000 feet...I forgot to add that, in my city, they also cannot linger within 300 feet of where children gather. Each church has to decide for itself whether or not it is comfortable having a convicted sex offender attend services where children are present and if that constitutes "lingering." (edited to remove a response to a post that has since been removed, no TOS violation)
< Message edited by Kath -- 4/13/2008 8:11:20 PM >
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~Kat "...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying." I weep for those who won't experience this because they have been deceived.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/13/2008 2:03:05 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 7644
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 29redballoons Thank you for your input...I understand your replies. There was a report, the authorities were notified...there was insufficient evidence. When I said they did not press charges, I meant the police. I did not gossip nor spread it around the church...I told one person in charge of the children. I guess what I should have done was just not let dd go and forget the others. (since there was no evidence) I really thought I was helping, since if my child was going there I would want someone to know. However, this was long ago and we no longer are in that situation. I do understand forgiveness. I also understand that in the eyes of the Lord, we are new creatures once we receive salvation...maybe this is the case with this man and all around him are safe. At least I tried. I don't think you did anything wrong. If you had cause for concern (and you most certainly did), you had an obligation to share that concern with a leader. I'm shocked the church wouldn't check it out to at least get more info. To me, if there is a red flag, even if it isn't true, it needs to be checked out. Our children deserve no less. I have to add, that I had heard (because of my job) that a certain lady in our church had had problems with CPS and shouldn't be working with kids at one of our camps. One day, I noticed she was on the list of childcare workers for our nursery. I simply went to the nursery coordinator, explained what I had been told and thought it merited her checking out. She immediately did and the lady was taken off the childcare workers list. End of story.
< Message edited by phosadaud -- 4/13/2008 2:10:05 PM >
_____________________________
~Kristin~ The easily offended... Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/13/2008 2:15:28 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1066
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offl | | | |