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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/14/2008 12:03:36 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1160
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quote:
memaw: What of a female school teacher who has been convicted of a sex offense with a male (or female) student, would we look as harsh toward her as we do a man?
Absolutely, positively yes. Regarding the legal system, I personally am sick and tired of seeing predatory women get off with a lesser sentence or no sentence at all. It truly does make me sick.
Regarding church participation, I agree with every post here that says we should forgive but not forget, meaning keep an eye open at all times, male or female alike. Kat_D's last post made excellent points, as well.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 4/14/2008 12:09:56 PM >
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/14/2008 12:19:31 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3222
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
I would like to point out that sex offenders come in both male and female genders.
So far the thread has been strictly about men with young girls but there is a definite rise in incidences with young boys that should be addressed as well.
What of a female school teacher who has been convicted of a sex offense with a male (or female) student, would we look as harsh toward her as we do a man?
Since you posted right after me, Kimmie, I just wanted to note that I did say he/she many times in my post:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Well, no offense, but all of that is the sex offender's fault. He/she should of thought of the repercussions for his/her family before he/she committed their crime. The fact is that society has placed some rather severe penalties and restrictions on those who are convicted of sex crimes when they are released from prison. The convicted offender is the only one who holds responsibility for what he/she and his/her family may suffer as a result of his/her criminal actions.
As to whether or not he/she should be allowed to go to church...that may be a privilege he/she may also have to forfeit because of the nature of his/her crime. BTW, a church is just a building with four walls...worship can happen anywhere and the convicted sex offender is always free to take advantage of that.
Churches have a responsibility to do whatever is necessary to ensure that the adults and children of the congregation are protected. If, in order to ensure that, the church must prevent a convicted sex offender from attending, then the church has to do what it has to do,
If you weren't responding to me, then, "Nevermind!!" 
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/15/2008 2:25:22 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1026
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quote:
Well, no offense, but all of that is the sex offender's fault. He/she should of thought of the repercussions for his/her family before he/she committed their crime.
Yes and no. Once again, we want people we don't understand to fit into categories that fit our understanding. While most offenders know, or should have known, that their offense was wrong, there are many who, because of their upbringing, may not have truly understood or viewed the act as wrong. In my career working with sex offenders, I've met some who were raised in homes where there were no sexual boundaries, everyone was doing it, it was normal. To learn that the rest of the world sees this as wrong as a revelation to them. Also, our culture is sexually saturated. The message of the media encourages promiscuity and perverse thinking. It's a case by case basis, we don't do justice and we throw reconciliation and restoration out the window when we lump them into these categories for our own purposes.
quote:
As to whether or not he/she should be allowed to go to church...that may be a privilege he/she may also have to forfeit because of the nature of his/her crime. BTW, a church is just a building with four walls...worship can happen anywhere and the convicted sex offender is always free to take advantage of that.
While I agree that attending church services is a privelege that may have to be earned for some offenders, I disagree with your statement about the church being a building and four walls. We, the people, are the church and we, the church, are part of a larger community. We are to love our neighbor and, sometimes, our neighbor happens to be a sex offender. Love does not mean we give them a warm, fuzzy group hug and tell them it's okay that they sinned in the past and, because they are a new creation, we forget what they did. Love, in this case (in all cases), is about discipling, leading, guiding, instructing, building each other up, equipping each other, fulfilling the one anothers in scripture. Love is getting over ourselves and looking out for others.
quote:
Churches have a responsibility to do whatever is necessary to ensure that the adults and children of the congregation are protected. If, in order to ensure that, the church must prevent a convicted sex offender from attending, then the church has to do what it has to do.
Yes, from a legal standpoint, churches have an obligation to protect the congregation. At the same time we, the church, have an obligation to change the culture. When we hear or see something inappropriate, we need to get over ourselves and deal with the issue. As I said before, there are far many more sex offenderfs who are not on the registry or any other data base because they have not been caught yet. The majority of sexual predators are very good at what they do because they know how to relate to people and relate to them well. They know how to make people feel at ease and they gain the trust of people quickly. They know how to get their victims to keep secrets and to make the victims feel guilty for having engaged in behavior that violated their moral code. We, the church, are all too often victims as a result of not wanting to appear judgmental and/or because we miconstrue love and become enablers.
_____________________________
You can take the man out of Alaska, but you can't take Alaska out of the man.
Me
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/15/2008 3:34:57 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 8788
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
I would like to point out that sex offenders come in both male and female genders.
So far the thread has been strictly about men with young girls but there is a definite rise in incidences with young boys that should be addressed as well.
What of a female school teacher who has been convicted of a sex offense with a male (or female) student, would we look as harsh toward her as we do a man?
Personally, I really could care less if the offender is a male or a female. Both cause horrendous damage, both should be punished by the legal system and both have betrayed a trust that shouldn't just be handed back because they show up at church or say they have changed.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 9:48:42 AM
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percussionlover
Posts: 83
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i (we) do praise his conversion & we're not naive. sure many perps are family people,but we all are. we have to have a CHRIST like heart...Jesus/God has forgotton that person's crime and or sins...it's totally forgotton. as a church,we have to have the same like mind as Christ. what will you say if that person is standing right beside you in heaven??? then you'll realize that forgiveness is pure & everlasting.
i'm quite sure there are many sex offenders in church sitting right beside you that noone knows about etc...i'm sure theres one walking beside you in the mall etc....
with todays culture,,,sexual immorality is really part of everyday life & its very sad. in the church i'm sure there's many people in the congregation male & female,dealing with sexual addiction,church leaders included.
most all doctors will tell you that sexual addiction will lead one down a more darker road of acting out like sex offenders etc...
dont forget that we all have some kind of dark secrets and or skeletons in our past but with the blood Jesus shed on the cross,those sins are dead & buried when we repent etc....
as a church we have to have a christ like heart & mind.
what about the other addictions that are just as bad.....sex/food/drugs/alchohal/gambling that is prevelent in our churchs.
what if a murderer got out of prison serving his time & he/she are attending your church (you probaly wouldnt know cause theres not a registry for murderers) & you found out....how would you react???
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
awesome response to the thread folks,but some of you are missing the point....the offender attending our church is on the registry as a sex offender but this person did not commit a crime on a child. he is not a predator/child molestor,so there's no need for alarm when this person is around kids.
he's a family man with 2 kids aged....7 & 13.
my other point i wanted to make was that if some one is a registered sex offender & on the registry,it dosent mean that he or she is a predator/child molestor.........
You are naive, my friend. Many perpetrators are "family people" with spouses and children. Certainly praise his "conversion", but do not think that he is not a danger. I would think you would want to care about the safety of your adult members as well as children. I would want to see all the legal documentation to verify his crime. And I'd enforce all policies about protecting the children. The lack of trust is part of the consequence of his behavior. As a Christian, he should accept that and not expect any special consideration. Criminals love churches because they are great cover.
< Message edited by percussionlover -- 4/16/2008 9:55:09 AM >
_____________________________
PERCUSSIONLOVER
SURFIN FOR JESUS
CONGA MAN
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 12:29:25 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5234
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From: where bbq pigeons roast....
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Some of us need to realize a VERY basic truth....
Sins have consequences.
God does indeed forgive, yes.
But (one more time) sins.have.consequences.
Simple example:
The un-wed/teenage daughter of the pastor of your church get pregnant.
She confesses her sins, the church supports her, and she does indeed repent and moves on in the Lord.
But guess what?
She is still pregnant.
The baby is born.
The baby does not *POOF* disappear because of her repentance and our forgiveness and acceptance.
Sin.have.consequences.
Sometimes real tangible (baby) ones that do not go away or can be swept under the rug.
OK
We all got it? Because again this is something that a lot of Christians DO NOT understand. And a lot of it is because of our culture, our politically correct and liberal, culture that does not embrace personal responsibility and accountability.
So with child molesters, rapists, etc...
The same common sense truth applies. Sins have consequences and we are not to be blind in our acceptance with people to the point where caution is thrown out the window. To the point where we endanger our children and others.
We will be held accountable. Perhaps this is all just the ramblings of a husband, a father, a pastor, a law enforcement officer...
*end rant
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 12:55:25 PM
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percussionlover
Posts: 83
Joined: 2/29/2008
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if you had a sex offender in your church and he or she is truly repentent with their sins....would you go up to them & embrace them & say ...you love them ????
would you have a conversation with them ?
if they wanted to come to your bible study,would you let them ?
if you ran into them at the store would you treat them just like another brother or sister in your congregation?
would you fellowship with them?
do you see the point i'm making...........
Jesus would do all the above..........
just because they have a past & maybe some of us have a past that is very bad too....
it dosent mean we treat them any different if theyre part of our church family....we cant...if we start treating everyone in our church family different cause of their past sins etc...we lose the whole meaning of forgiveness especially our own brothers & sisters......LUKE 24:47 nlt...ACTS 13:38/39 nlt...DANIEL 9:9 nlt...MATTHEW 5:46/-48 nlt...JOHN 13:34/35 nlt...1JOHN 3:11-24...nlt
the list goes on
_____________________________
PERCUSSIONLOVER
SURFIN FOR JESUS
CONGA MAN
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 1:25:52 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3843
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
i (we) do praise his conversion & we're not naive. sure many perps are family people,but we all are. we have to have a CHRIST like heart...Jesus/God has forgotton that person's crime and or sins...it's totally forgotton. as a church,we have to have the same like mind as Christ. what will you say if that person is standing right beside you in heaven??? then you'll realize that forgiveness is pure & everlasting.
i'm quite sure there are many sex offenders in church sitting right beside you that noone knows about etc...i'm sure theres one walking beside you in the mall etc....
with todays culture,,,sexual immorality is really part of everyday life & its very sad. in the church i'm sure there's many people in the congregation male & female,dealing with sexual addiction,church leaders included.
most all doctors will tell you that sexual addiction will lead one down a more darker road of acting out like sex offenders etc...
dont forget that we all have some kind of dark secrets and or skeletons in our past but with the blood Jesus shed on the cross,those sins are dead & buried when we repent etc....
as a church we have to have a christ like heart & mind.
what about the other addictions that are just as bad.....sex/food/drugs/alchohal/gambling that is prevelent in our churchs.
what if a murderer got out of prison serving his time & he/she are attending your church (you probaly wouldnt know cause theres not a registry for murderers) & you found out....how would you react???
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
awesome response to the thread folks,but some of you are missing the point....the offender attending our church is on the registry as a sex offender but this person did not commit a crime on a child. he is not a predator/child molestor,so there's no need for alarm when this person is around kids.
he's a family man with 2 kids aged....7 & 13.
my other point i wanted to make was that if some one is a registered sex offender & on the registry,it dosent mean that he or she is a predator/child molestor.........
You are naive, my friend. Many perpetrators are "family people" with spouses and children. Certainly praise his "conversion", but do not think that he is not a danger. I would think you would want to care about the safety of your adult members as well as children. I would want to see all the legal documentation to verify his crime. And I'd enforce all policies about protecting the children. The lack of trust is part of the consequence of his behavior. As a Christian, he should accept that and not expect any special consideration. Criminals love churches because they are great cover.
Awesome evasion. We are accountable for what we know or should know, not what we don't know. The registry is a sex offender registry and sex offenses are not limited to adults. I'd have the same reservations about a murderer or thief, etc. Trust must be earned, not granted because of a professed conversion. Again, criminals love churches. They are great places to use for cover, as you pointed out.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 1:27:16 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1160
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
percussionlover: if you had a sex offender in your church and he or she is truly repentent with their sins....would you go up to them & embrace them & say ...you love them ????
Sigh. That has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Read the post above yours. Sin has consequences, period. The results of the sin of sexual offenses do not just go away. Forgiveness and godly love can co-exist with discernment, wisdom, discipline, and common sense. God never told anyone to throw all those things out in favor of a worldly view of 'love' where one turns a blind eye to everything.
The pedophile/sex offender had the CHOICE to not act on his/her desires. The ones who do act must bear the consequences, which means not being trusted in many situations and probably having legal restraints to deal with, especially where those at greatest risk [children, women, mentally handicapped] are concerned. If church leadership has allowed a known sex offender to interact freely with those at risk and that offender repeats the crime, I would hold both the sex offender and church leadership responsible.
Case in point: Roman Catholic Church. How many times did their leadership sweep this issue under the carpet and move known pedophile priests around, only to have them molest even more children. It should have only taken them ONE time to learn the lesson and wise up. The RCC leadership therefore bears some of the responsibility for all the subsequent molestations and rapes. They looked away and literally enabled the horror to continue.
percussionlover, How do you feel about background checks for church ministry positions? Good idea or bad? Just wondering.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 4/16/2008 2:05:01 PM >
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 2:12:33 PM
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percussionlover
Posts: 83
Joined: 2/29/2008
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i'm really interested....no one answered any of the questions in my last post......i'd like to hear your thoughts on the below questions....
quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
if you had a sex offender in your church and he or she is truly repentent with their sins....would you go up to them & embrace them & say ...you love them ????
would you have a conversation with them ?
if they wanted to come to your bible study,would you let them ?
if you ran into them at the store would you treat them just like another brother or sister in your congregation?
would you fellowship with them?
do you see the point i'm making...........
Jesus would do all the above..........
just because they have a past & maybe some of us have a past that is very bad too....
it dosent mean we treat them any different if theyre part of our church family....we cant...if we start treating everyone in our church family different cause of their past sins etc...we lose the whole meaning of forgiveness especially our own brothers & sisters......LUKE 24:47 nlt...ACTS 13:38/39 nlt...DANIEL 9:9 nlt...MATTHEW 5:46/-48 nlt...JOHN 13:34/35 nlt...1JOHN 3:11-24...nlt
the list goes on
_____________________________
PERCUSSIONLOVER
SURFIN FOR JESUS
CONGA MAN
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 2:23:27 PM
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WalkingwithHim2
Posts: 2218
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
i'm really interested....no one answered any of the questions in my last post......i'd like to hear your thoughts on the below questions....
quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
if you had a sex offender in your church and he or she is truly repentent with their sins....would you go up to them & embrace them & say ...you love them ????
would you have a conversation with them ?
if they wanted to come to your bible study,would you let them ?
if you ran into them at the store would you treat them just like another brother or sister in your congregation?
would you fellowship with them?
do you see the point i'm making...........
Jesus would do all the above..........
just because they have a past & maybe some of us have a past that is very bad too....
it dosent mean we treat them any different if theyre part of our church family....we cant...if we start treating everyone in our church family different cause of their past sins etc...we lose the whole meaning of forgiveness especially our own brothers & sisters......LUKE 24:47 nlt...ACTS 13:38/39 nlt...DANIEL 9:9 nlt...MATTHEW 5:46/-48 nlt...JOHN 13:34/35 nlt...1JOHN 3:11-24...nlt
the list goes on
So are you saying that you would leave this "friend" of yours that is a CONVICTED sex offender alone with your mother/sister/daughter/neighbor lady?
No one has said that they would not welcome them into their prospective churches but they would expect leadership to put some kind of blocks/barriers as to how they are allowed to serve.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 2:36:02 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3448
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
I did research on this for our church, and in the state I live in, convicted sex offenders whose crimes are against children would not be able to attend our church because the law states they cannot come within 2,000 feet of a place where children gather...most states have laws like this...and since, children are always in attendance at our church, it wouldn't work. The person would have to go to a church with an adults only service.
This is an extremely complicated issue.
Same here. I don't know how some sex offenders would be able to walk into a church without breaking the law.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 2:42:16 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1160
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
WalkingwithHim2: So are you saying that you would leave this "friend" of yours that is a CONVICTED sex offender alone with your mother/sister/daughter/neighbor lady?
No one has said that they would not welcome them into their prospective churches but they would expect leadership to put some kind of blocks/barriers as to how they are allowed to serve.
Bingo!
quote:
percussionlover: i'm really interested....no one answered any of the questions in my last post......i'd like to hear your thoughts on the below questions....
percussionlover: Your question seems to imply that no one here would/could love a sex offender... as if we might all be waiting at the church door ready to throw rotten veggies at them.
As far as I can see, everyone has already said several times over they can love and forgive the sex offender so that question has already been answered, but they wouldn't be so stupid as to turn a blind eye so the sex offender can hurt someone else. Being loving and kind doesn't include putting others at risk.
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 2:54:43 PM
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percussionlover
Posts: 83
Joined: 2/29/2008
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most of you are in thinking that most all sex offenders are child molestors/predators & a great deal of them are not & their crimes were not against a child. there is a major difference between a child molestor/preadator(pediphile) & some one on the registry thats labled a sex offender cause they urinated in a public place/peeping tom/was 18 & had sex with their 17 yr old girlfriend/boyfriend etc....
i'm not condoneing the crime,i just want us as christians to realize because of the media & politicians,they want you to believe that if someone's on the sex offender registry that they must have had sex with a child or their crime was against a child etc.....
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
WalkingwithHim2: So are you saying that you would leave this "friend" of yours that is a CONVICTED sex offender alone with your mother/sister/daughter/neighbor lady?
No one has said that they would not welcome them into their prospective churches but they would expect leadership to put some kind of blocks/barriers as to how they are allowed to serve.
Bingo!
quote:
percussionlover: i'm really interested....no one answered any of the questions in my last post......i'd like to hear your thoughts on the below questions....
percussionlover: Your question seems to imply that no one here would/could love a sex offender... as if we might all be waiting at the church door ready to throw rotten veggies at them.
As far as I can see, everyone has already said several times over they can love and forgive the sex offender so that question has already been answered, but they wouldn't be so stupid as to turn a blind eye so the sex offender can hurt someone else. Being loving and kind doesn't include putting others at risk.
_____________________________
PERCUSSIONLOVER
SURFIN FOR JESUS
CONGA MAN
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 3:04:13 PM
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WalkingwithHim2
Posts: 2218
Joined: 12/13/2007
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Perclover you are SOOOOO WRONG! I don't believe that all sex offenders are child molesters. I have worked in criminal defense for many years and I know that most attacks are not against children but against adults. Contrary to your popular belief...very few states make an 18 year old register as a sex offender for having consentual sex with his/her 17 year old girlfriend/boyfriend.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 3:06:17 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3448
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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There are many people on the sex offender registry that probably shouldn't be. Most of these people you will never know about unless they choose to disclose it.
I think at issue is known sex offenders--those who have been convicted of rape and child molestation and pedophilia, etc. These people have typically had their crimes made public through the media and they may have additional police surveillance, handouts in their neighborhoods, etc. In some areas, like the one I live in, the law prevents these people from being around children in any shape or form. That in itself would prevent them from attending church services, not the people in the church. For these offenders, church might have to be an all-adult home group or something similar.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 3:07:03 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 5964
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
I did research on this for our church, and in the state I live in, convicted sex offenders whose crimes are against children would not be able to attend our church because the law states they cannot come within 2,000 feet of a place where children gather...most states have laws like this...and since, children are always in attendance at our church, it wouldn't work. The person would have to go to a church with an adults only service.
This is an extremely complicated issue.
I think that one could still find a church that didn't have a large group of children gathering.
Many churches have two services and the services tend to vary with one attracting an older crowd and one attracting a younger crowd.
Also, I wonder if churches might be exempt from these laws?
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 3:08:47 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3448
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Also, I wonder if churches might be exempt from these laws?
I can't imagine that they would be. But you've prompted me to look up my own state law.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 3:17:09 PM
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WesP
Posts: 2254
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
Status: offline
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PL,
You obviously think that most of the posters here are overly judgmental. Quick scenario for you (true BTW): a lady I know said she was put on the list because her daughter's BF accused her wrongfully after a disagreement. Truth is that she was fornicating with a young teenager, and she was 39 at the time. Real nice lady, too. In about 3 or 4 years, I still will not send my son over to cut her grass. KWIM? She goes to church, bible study, etc. Doesn't matter.
My point is this: most of them will not be truthful, so you cannot just accept things at face value. Err on the side of caution. If you allow something like that to happen to your own flesh and blood, it will be devastating.
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
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<--- BTW, this is the true function of corn! It is to help the oil industry and its functionaries, not detract from them! 
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