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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 5:11:38 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1105
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
quote:
I do backgrounds on all visitors, and if there is a problem with the check and they return I visit with them about the situation
Not to sound silly or anything like that, but how do you do a check on a visitor? I don't give my information out the first time I walk through a church door.
that was my question many posts back.....do background checks on ALL visitors? how could that be done? we have thousands of people visiting our church each and every weekend...
now, to get into the children's ministry area? well, if you're not supposed to be there (with your name badge sticker thing on), you're not going to get in there. Period.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 5:29:26 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 7707
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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It would be impossible for us to do that as well and to be honest, I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable with a church that ran checks on visitors. Seems a little much to me and I'm not sure how it would be done logistically either without getting info from them that to be honest, most folks aren't going to give out to folks they just met (at least I wouldn't and I'm "clean as a whistle").
In our church, you will NOT work with youth or kids or get any keys to the church or drive any of the church vans without a background check and having gone through a child safety course. End of story - no exceptions. If you won't do that, you won't be getting any of those privilages. Even then, workers are trained to never be alone with a child, etc. In addition, if you work with our kids, you will have at least some training in regards to what to "look for" and danger signs. Passing a background check does not mean you are "safe".
_____________________________
~Kristin~
The easily offended...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 5:50:44 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 1499
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: Saturn
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Someone working with kids in my friend's church had a nasty myspace page. She was given the boot out of children's ministries after someone sent a link to the pastor. It involved all sorts of sexual evil.
Checking up on folks can be more than an FBI check.
_____________________________
Iron sharpens iron, while mush just sinks into the pot.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 6:05:23 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3348
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sjd2008
quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
quote:
I do backgrounds on all visitors, and if there is a problem with the check and they return I visit with them about the situation
Not to sound silly or anything like that, but how do you do a check on a visitor? I don't give my information out the first time I walk through a church door.
Kimmie, you beat me on this one! I was going to ask the same question. Also, how can ou an ffective check without a social security number?
He probably has all new visitors fill out a card. You don't need a ss# to check the convicted sex offender's web site...just a name.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
I weep for those who won't experience this because they have been deceived.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 7:22:47 PM
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sjd2008
Posts: 152
Joined: 1/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: sjd2008
quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
quote:
I do backgrounds on all visitors, and if there is a problem with the check and they return I visit with them about the situation
Not to sound silly or anything like that, but how do you do a check on a visitor? I don't give my information out the first time I walk through a church door.
Kimmie, you beat me on this one! I was going to ask the same question. Also, how can ou an ffective check without a social security number?
He probably has all new visitors fill out a card. You don't need a ss# to check the convicted sex offender's web site...just a name.
Not the best way. Many names are close and not ALL databases include photos. I Googled my name and my wife's name together once. There was another couple in our state about 80 miles away with our names...Fortunately, they had not committed any crimes.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 7:39:35 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4617
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sjd2008
Kimmie, you beat me on this one! I was going to ask the same question. Also, how can ou an ffective check without a social security numberl
Offender list are by name, address, and photos; and some states include a tag number of any car registered to them.
It is not fool proof but it is a step in the right direction.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 7:43:28 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2611
Joined: 4/15/2005
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It's to bad anyone or any church has to deal with this since if the civil government did it's ordained job there wouldn't be but maybe a handful of known pedophiles able to attend church...
John
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 11:55:11 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 779
Joined: 9/6/2007
From: SW Missouri
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: sjd2008
Kimmie, you beat me on this one! I was going to ask the same question. Also, how can ou an ffective check without a social security numberl
Offender list are by name, address, and photos; and some states include a tag number of any car registered to them.
It is not fool proof but it is a step in the right direction.
Thanks
RC
What part of Oklahoma are you in? Are you able to run checks on these people with your deputy status? We are very rural too and go to a fairly small church but it is not tiny. Fortunatly with our church the people who deal with the children from tots to teens have been in place for years. One even works for some sort of early childhood thing so we know she is really clean.
_____________________________
<-------- She really loves her daddy!
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/18/2008 8:30:56 AM
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percussionlover
Posts: 73
Joined: 2/29/2008
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sorry iw9 for taking so long to get back with u...
first answer to your question...no connection with this individual..only that they are my brother in Christ & i'm there to luv them,be there 4 them etc...what would Jesus say to me in Heaven if i totally turned my back on this person if they were crying out to the Lord & had a true repentive heart etc...& was hungry for a true relationship with HIM.
plus we dont give this person carte blance at the church.this person is not involved with any childrens ministry. since this person is an awesome musician they are involved with the music ministry.this person is usin their God given talent for the Lord.
background checks are awesome...they do it pretty much everywhere anyways if u wanna work somewhere etc...but we do have to be careful if it involves every aspect of our everyday life...etc..
if this person was a child molestor/predator...i wouldnt leave my kids alone with them..the point is that this persons charges/crime was NOT against a child or children !!!!! this person was 18 yrs old & their partner was 16 1/2 turning 17 & someone didnt like that so this person was charged & is now a convicted sex offender.
like i said before.....JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE ON THE SEX REGISTRY DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE A CHILD MOLESTOR/PREDATOR(pediphile)..why is hard not to realize this ???? i wonder ???
i hope that answers the questions....thanxxx folks...
just a note.....in the state where i live they're very serious about any sort of sex related crimes now & like i said before,there's folks on the registry in my state that are on the registry because they are a peeping tom/predator/sex offender/were 18 & had sex with their 16 or 17 yr old partner/urinating in public (which means u are exsposing yourself in public) theres more ridiculus charges as well.
if you look from state to state,,,every state has different laws/restrictions for sex offenders.
one thing that was challenged in my state by the sex offenders in a class action law suit was that they were all being kicked out of their homes etc...if they were closer than a thousand feet of a :::: school/church/day care/bus stop/library/playground/park/swimming pool/roller skating rink/rec park/......
being kicked out includes their families (wife/husbands/children) too & if they didnt comply,they would be sent back to prison for 10 years up to 30 years. (i thought there was double jeporady,,especially if you've served your time etc..)
so,,,,,because of the class action law suit that the sex offenders brought against our state with the aclu, our states supreme court said it was unconsitutional to kick someone out of their home (if they own it/mortgage) especially if its beyond the 1000 ft rule. also if a church/school/day care/bus stop/ etc...is built within 1000 ft of their home ,they dont have to move.
the bus stop rule is still being challenged in our state supreme court,but theyre saying that it wont stick either cause bus stops pop up every year & they change every year.so it would almost be impossible to enforce because of that & the other issue is that if someone is in compliance with the bus stop law & one year the school board decides to put a bus stop across the street from the offenders home,would they have to move. the state supreme court is sayin no....cause that would mean the offender & their family would constanly have to move...
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
cow451: What is your personal connection with this individual? That might help us understand your tenacity in wanting to give this person carte blanche at church.
I think that's an excellent and valid question.
percussionlover: There's a few other questions that were asked but I noticed you did not respond. Here they are again:
How do you feel about background checks for potential ministry workers? Good idea, bad idea?
Would you leave your children alone with a known sex offender in your church?
_____________________________
PERCUSSIONLOVER
SURFIN FOR JESUS
CONGA MAN
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/18/2008 8:42:47 AM
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percussionlover
Posts: 73
Joined: 2/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
and I say Church is for Christians
so...rcjames...does that mean a sex offender cannot be a born-again christian????
just wanderin....
_____________________________
PERCUSSIONLOVER
SURFIN FOR JESUS
CONGA MAN
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/18/2008 9:12:38 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1105
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
quote:
and I say Church is for Christians
so...rcjames...does that mean a sex offender cannot be a born-again christian????
just wanderin....
not only that....but, Church is for Christians?
If that's the case, then why have an "altar call" "invitation" at some point in time during the service? EVERYONE there should be Christians...right?
and, if they aren't, then how is a "non-christian"/seeker (or whoever) supposed to "get the message" and become familiar with our church and it's teachings? Be resigned to staying home and watching our 11am services, which are broadcast live, on-line at home?
Isn't church really supposed to be 'open' to anyone who is willing to come...and hear God's word preached?
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/18/2008 9:26:25 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 4617
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover.
like i said before.....JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE ON THE SEX REGISTRY DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE A CHILD MOLESTOR/PREDATOR(pediphile)..why is hard not to realize this ???? i wonder ???
i hope that answers the questions....thanxxx folks...
Yes, there are folks with a variety of sex crimes listed besides pedeophiles. They are usually listed by the type crime, aggrevated or not, the place and time the crime happened, the name, address, etc. of the offender.
As I said, my main concern is pedeophiles, but it would extend to a person with list of rapes and violent crimes. It would also entend to "viciimless" crimes like 'Peeping toms" I sure don't want a creep looking into the windows or drilling holes through the wall of the ladies bathroom.
As the Watch Commander on 'Hill Street Blues" used to tell the guys just as they left for their shift; "Let's be careful out there".
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/18/2008 9:35:28 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 4617
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2monkeysmom
What part of Oklahoma are you in? Are you able to run checks on these people with your deputy status? We are very rural too and go to a fairly small church but it is not tiny. Fortunatly with our church the people who deal with the children from tots to teens have been in place for years. One even works for some sort of early childhood thing so we know she is really clean.
South of Oklahoma City about 40 miles.
I normally do not use the Counties equipment, though I have ask them on a couple of occasions when some really strange guy that was hanging around the grounds, or the school grounds next door. Then either a County deputy or a local policeman will stop the person and find out who they are and why they are hanging around.
Our community really watches over the children, if a strange car cruises past the school over a couple of times, they will be stopped and checked out. We also have a number of retired men that in the morning and after school ride their 4 wheelers or gold carts up and down the streets where the kids are walking to and from school. They are looking for strangers and other suspecious folks, they are all legally armed and will stop someone or call the authorities if somethis is suspecious. Works for us.
Thanks
RC
edoted fpr spelling
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/18/2008 10:07:15 AM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 779
Joined: 9/6/2007
From: SW Missouri
Status: offline
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quote:
Our community really watches over the children, if a strange car cruises past the school over a couple of times, they will be stopped and checked out. We also have a number of retired men that in the morning and after school ride their 4 wheelers or gold carts up and down the streets where the kids are walking to and from school. They are looking for strangers and other suspecious folks, they are all legally armed and will stop someone or call the authorities if somethis is suspecious. Works for us.
Thanks
RC
I am going to move there!
< Message edited by 2monkeysmom -- 4/18/2008 10:36:08 AM >
_____________________________
<-------- She really loves her daddy!
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/18/2008 10:16:33 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3683
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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Percussion: Now that you've given us a little better info, perhaps it would be easier to look at more specific circumstances rather than these broad blanket arguments. It would be relatively easy and inexpensive to get a criminal background check and look at the actual court documents to see if the facts match up to his story. If they match up, that's good. If they don't, that's a red flag and a warning siren. Now if he claims to have pleaded guilty to acts he did not commit (in order to avoid jail time) that would mean, at a minimum, he committed perjury. As a musician, he represents the church and presents an issue of liability should he be accused of misconduct.
_____________________________
Wenn zuerst Sie nicht gelingen, Versuch, versuch wieder. Geben Sie dann auf. Es gibt keinen punkt, in ein zu sein, verdammt Narren darum. -- W. C. Fields
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/18/2008 10:51:22 AM
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percussionlover
Posts: 73
Joined: 2/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
if you look from state to state,,,every state has different laws/restrictions for sex offenders.
one thing that was challenged in my state by the sex offenders in a class action law suit was that they were all being kicked out of their homes etc...if they were closer than a thousand feet of a :::: school/church/day care/bus stop/library/playground/park/swimming pool/roller skating rink/rec park/......
being kicked out includes their families (wife/husbands/children) too & if they didnt comply,they would be sent back to prison for 10 years up to 30 years. (i thought there was double jeporady,,especially if you've served your time etc..)
so,,,,,because of the class action law suit that the sex offenders brought against our state with the aclu, our states supreme court said it was unconsitutional to kick someone out of their home (if they own it/mortgage) especially if its beyond the 1000 ft rule. also if a church/school/day care/bus stop/ etc...is built within 1000 ft of their home ,they dont have to move.
the bus stop rule is still being challenged in our state supreme court,but theyre saying that it wont stick either cause bus stops pop up every year & they change every year.so it would almost be impossible to enforce because of that & the other issue is that if someone is in compliance with the bus stop law & one year the school board decides to put a bus stop across the street from the offenders home,would they have to move. the state supreme court is sayin no....cause that would mean the offender & their family would constanly have
bluestone..its good we are discussin this...
how do you guys feel about my above quote...............
_____________________________
PERCUSSIONLOVER
SURFIN FOR JESUS
CONGA MAN
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/18/2008 11:04:29 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3683
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
quote:
if you look from state to state,,,every state has different laws/restrictions for sex offenders.
one thing that was challenged in my state by the sex offenders in a class action law suit was that they were all being kicked out of their homes etc...if they were closer than a thousand feet of a :::: school/church/day care/bus stop/library/playground/park/swimming pool/roller skating rink/rec park/......
being kicked out includes their families (wife/husbands/children) too & if they didnt comply,they would be sent back to prison for 10 years up to 30 years. (i thought there was double jeporady,,especially if you've served your time etc..)
so,,,,,because of the class action law suit that the sex offenders brought against our state with the aclu, our states supreme court said it was unconsitutional to kick someone out of their home (if they own it/mortgage) especially if its beyond the 1000 ft rule. also if a church/school/day care/bus stop/ etc...is built within 1000 ft of their home ,they dont have to move.
the bus stop rule is still being challenged in our state supreme court,but theyre saying that it wont stick either cause bus stops pop up every year & they change every year.so it would almost be impossible to enforce because of that & the other issue is that if someone is in compliance with the bus stop law & one year the school board decides to put a bus stop across the street from the offenders home,would they have to move. the state supreme court is sayin no....cause that would mean the offender & their family would constanly have
bluestone..its good we are discussin this...
how do you guys feel about my above quote...............
I take it, then, that you prefer not to discuss the specific situation that ignited your fury. If so, please say so to avoid extraneous posting. I'll give you that the efforts to eradicate the planet of every offender have been draconian in some instances and unintended consequences have taken place (such as driving some offenders underground). So what do you want the thread to address?
_____________________________
Wenn zuerst Sie nicht gelingen, Versuch, versuch wieder. Geben Sie dann auf. Es gibt keinen punkt, in ein zu sein, verdammt Narren darum. -- W. C. Fields
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/18/2008 11:29:18 AM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 779
Joined: 9/6/2007
From: SW Missouri
Status: offline
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Sites like this one are available to anyone.http://www.felonspy.com/search.html It is a way to be aware of who is around you. Perhaps what should really scare people are the ones no one is aware of. The guy down the road watching women for a chance to rape or the guy watching our children play in the yard just waiting for his chance. Yep they are in our churches too...silent waiting.
_____________________________
<-------- She really loves her daddy!
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/18/2008 12:10:40 PM
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percussionlover
Posts: 73
Joined: 2/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
and I say Church is for Christians.
rcjames....again,i ask from your quote...if a sex offender is a born-again christian is he or she a christian in your eyes & if they are born-again that means church is for them cause they are a christian......just wanderin
_____________________________
PERCUSSIONLOVER
SURFIN FOR JESUS
CONGA MAN
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/18/2008 12:37:14 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 5108
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
quote:
and I say Church is for Christians.
rcjames....again,i ask from your quote...if a sex offender is a born-again christian is he or she a christian in your eyes & if they are born-again that means church is for them cause they are a christian......just wanderin
Are you wanderin' or wonderin'?
I have no problem with them attending church, but they do need to be watched and never left in a situation where they could be tempted to sin.
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