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We all know the ID movements dishonest aims from the start, yet you guys continue to trust them... kinda funny.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
How is the use of extras in the movie deceptive?

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

Is it possible not to turn this into a Dobson/abortion/etc thread?

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ORIGINAL: PromiseLander

Sorry about that. I'll stop. (I get sidetracked VERY easily - I forget sometimes that can be offensive, but I meant no ill)

At any rate, regardless of your views on the creation / evolution debate, the movie is sure to be stimulating to both sides - regardless of Dawkins' opinions contrary. I'm sure he's a smart person, but his animosity is extremely clear in any of his writings; he's a VERY angry person.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
And I think the best way to determine whether the movie is accurate or not is to first see the movie, then decide.

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And I think the best way to determine whether the movie is accurate or not is to first see the movie, then decide.

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Not in this case.

Just look what they've done so far!

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-Scientists PZ Myers, R. Dawkins and Eugenie Scott were interviewed under false pretenses for a film called Crossroads about the controversy between evolution and creationism not for a creationist propaganda flick. The film producers claim that they changed the name of the movie after the interviews but the Expelled website name was bought before the interviews were even conducted. Thou shalt not lie.

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-Expelled uses copyrighted Harvard material called Inner Life of the Cell which they are being sued over: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/peter_irons_drafts_a_letter.php#more
Thou shalt not steal.

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-One scientist interviewee, PZ Myers, was expelled from a screening of Expelled and Richard Dawkins who was with Myers was let in. This is very hypocritical, because the movie is about the supposed silencing of critics of the ToE and the producers of Expelled are suppressing critics of their film!
Thou shalt not be...HILARIOUS!!

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Judging from all this it's a pretty safe assumption that this film will be complete and utter bollocks.

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There's also the tired old argument about ID martyrs and Darwin going back in time to write The Jews and Their Lies.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
So Dawkins lies to get into an invitation only pre-screening of the film, and Meyers follows suit, but gets caught, and the producers of the film are the one's being deceptive; this is fairly typical evolutionist double-think.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Was anything Shermer said about the production inaccurate? The audience of extras, for example?

How is the use of extras in the movie deceptive?

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ORIGINAL: cow451

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Was anything Shermer said about the production inaccurate? The audience of extras, for example?

How is the use of extras in the movie deceptive?

I saw the trailer and had the impression he was lecturing to an audience (presumed to be people coming to hear him speak), not acting. Extras are PAID to behave in a predetermined manner. That alone is deceptive. It strikes me as extremely odd that they would have to pay people to attend, anyway.

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No one lied. Myers reserved seats for himself and guests (including Dawkins) using his own name. Or as Dawkins explains in his review:

"The way to get into this showing of the film was simply to go on the Internet and apply. This was exactly what PZ did. He went on the Web and put his name down for a place at the showing, just like everybody else, including several others from the American Atheists annual conference in Minneapolis. Not a man to hide behind a false name or false beard, PZ openly sported his own. Like many other people, including his daughter and Kristine Harley (see her Amused Muse website), PZ took advantage of the generous offer to let him book guests in as well, and then kindly invited me to be one of them. There was no request to give the names of guests, and no machinery to do so, which was why my name did not appear on the list. "

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I saw the trailer and had the impression he was lecturing to an audience (presumed to be people coming to hear him speak), not acting. Extras are PAID to behave in a predetermined manner. That alone is deceptive. It strikes me as extremely odd that they would have to pay people to attend, anyway.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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No one lied. Myers reserved seats for himself and guests (including Dawkins) using his own name. Or as Dawkins explains in his review:

"The way to get into this showing of the film was simply to go on the Internet and apply. This was exactly what PZ did. He went on the Web and put his name down for a place at the showing, just like everybody else, including several others from the American Atheists annual conference in Minneapolis. Not a man to hide behind a false name or false beard, PZ openly sported his own. Like many other people, including his daughter and Kristine Harley (see her Amused Muse website), PZ took advantage of the generous offer to let him book guests in as well, and then kindly invited me to be one of them. There was no request to give the names of guests, and no machinery to do so, which was why my name did not appear on the list. "

First off Dawkins didn't sign up as 'Richard Dawkins', he used his little known real name 26 March 2008
Clinton Dawkins.

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Secondly, it was an invitation only pre-screening

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So in my mind, Dawkins and Meyers are at the very least simply attempting to disrupt anything that counters their own fundamentalist brand of atheism, and at the very most are in typical fascistic mode attempting to suppress free speech.

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ORIGINAL: DanJames

This makes for an interesting psychology experiment. All of the OECs believe that Ben Stein et al are of ignoble character and Dick Dawkins is trying to shed light on his evil deeds through virtuous acts; and all the YECs believe that Ben Stein is being mischaracterized and DD is the ignoble one who was treated better than he should have been. Are there any exceptions?

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
So let me get this straight; PZ Meyers considers it a 'creationist propoganda flick'

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the producers of Expelled do not

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- therefore, the producers are lying. OK.

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Actually, the animation in the movie isn't the HArvard produced one, they are similar because, well, they are both animations about the inner workings of the cell.

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So Dawkins lies to get into an invitation only pre-screening of the film,

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and Meyers follows suit, but gets caught,

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and the producers of the film are the one's being deceptive;

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this is fairly typical evolutionist double-think.

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Or, we can surmise evolutionists are really scared of this film

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and are doing everything they can to undermine it; which would cause us to wonder - why is this so?

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The best way to find out is to see the film.

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Wow, you must really be concerned about this film; that would seem to be an anti-Jewish slur against Ben Stein.

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And he's spot on!

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Let me get this straight; do you think if you were interviewed for a film about the controversy between ID and science and then learn later that the film is a complete pro-evolution movies that gives no credence to ID, wouldn't you be a little peeved?

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Darn, Juhd's opinion trumps David Bolinsky's, the creator of Harvard animation. Apparently, by Juhd's reasoning, Bolinsky can't recognize his own work.

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No! Booting a person that is featured in the film and thanked in the credits from seeing the film certainly isn't being deceptive or hypocritical. Thanks for correcting me Juhd!

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And it's not double think to expel critics from a film about expelling so called critics? Wait don't answer that!

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Yes, I'm quivering in my boots.

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Yes why is this? I bet it's cause they're scared. Big Science has had a long enough ride of Godless materialism and it must come to an end! We must bring the true science of Intelligent Design into the labs. Scientists must not be afraid to think that some unknown designer, who could be God, but we're not telling, at some unknown time(s) created through an unknown mechanism whole organisms, or maybe just cells, or maybe just certain parts of cells. This is the new true undogmatic science people!

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I can't see the film sadly, for some strange reason they are only showing in the US, mostly in the Red states too. At least the producers know their audience.

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I'm not anti-Jewish, I'm anti Ben Stein, who ludicrously posits that Darwin was a necessary component of the Holocaust while completely ignoring the history of anti-semitics in Europe caused by Christians. All this movie does is cheapen the memory of the Holocaust victims and stigmatize biological evolution as being evil.

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What did they disrupt? The film ran. What suppression? What fascism? No one has called for the film to be banned.

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ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize

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ORIGINAL: DanJames

This makes for an interesting psychology experiment. All of the OECs believe that Ben Stein et al are of ignoble character and Dick Dawkins is trying to shed light on his evil deeds through virtuous acts; and all the YECs believe that Ben Stein is being mischaracterized and DD is the ignoble one who was treated better than he should have been. Are there any exceptions?

OEC = old earth creationist (a bible believer that believes the earth is old). YEC = Young earth creationist (a bible believer that believes the earth is young). I think you meant to say OET which means old earth theorist (anyone who believes in an old earth, be it an OEC or not). What you should have probably said is ID/creationist opponent which means anyone who opposes ID or creationism. We have an entire thread on acronyms you should probably see.

http://forums.christianity.com/m_2846281/mpage_1/key_acronyms/tm.htm#2942402

All these acronyms can get quite confusing for those who are new (often times if someone "new" comes to these forums already knowing the acronyms, I suspect they have already been here under another name and they just changed their nick. Then again, sometimes other forums use the same or similar acronyms so it's sometimes difficult to tell. I know that you probably haven't used another nick here based on the fact that you seem unfamiliar with the acronyms).

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

So in my mind, Dawkins and Meyers are at the very least simply attempting to disrupt anything that counters their own fundamentalist brand of atheism, and at the very most are in typical fascistic mode attempting to suppress free speech.