RE: Obama's Marxism? (Full Version)

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blessedinnyc -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 2:15:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Isaiah29
In Obama's perfect world "all pigs are created equal. only some pigs are created more equal than others" (George Orwell, 1984)


In Christ,

Ariel

Actually, this comes from Orwell's Animal Farm, and the correct quote is:

"All Animals are created equal. Some are more equal than others."

In any case, since Senator Antichrist has been proposing free-market fixes to the healthcare situation, it seems that he's not quite as much of a Commy than everyone thinks. Additionally, with all of the rollbacks in civil liberties we've seen since Bush took office, it seems like Obama would make for a marked rollback from the 1984 society that many Republicans seem to want to take us towards.



Isaiah29 -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 3:12:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Isaiah29
In Obama's perfect world "all pigs are created equal. only some pigs are created more equal than others" (George Orwell, 1984)


In Christ,

Ariel

Actually, this comes from Orwell's Animal Farm, and the correct quote is:

"All Animals are created equal. Some are more equal than others."

In any case, since Senator Antichrist has been proposing free-market fixes to the healthcare situation, it seems that he's not quite as much of a Commy than everyone thinks. Additionally, with all of the rollbacks in civil liberties we've seen since Bush took office, it seems like Obama would make for a marked rollback from the 1984 society that many Republicans seem to want to take us towards.



Dear Blessedinnyc,

Thank you for the correction. I should have looked it up instead of relying on the memory of something I had read 40 years ago, even though I knew it was Animal Farm and even remembered the name of the head pig (Napolean). I guess us old folk have brain glitches every now and then. That's what we get for living in small towns whilst clinging to our guns and religion. You must be one of them strange city folk. Gosh that just makes me so bitter!

In Christ,

Ariel



TomTurn -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 7:09:22 PM)

"The gross was not mine? Who was wiser to use that gross?"

......

This is a childish question.

.......

Then it should be easy to answer. Is my gross income mine and who is wiser in how it should be used?

.......

"Taxes are a fact of life. Without them, the country collapses at all levels, especially local. Yes, they need to be controlled, but what you seem to be advocating is an abolition of income taxes entirely. And I hate to break it to you, but that just ain't gonna happen."

........

I do not mind paying taxes that we need. I do not think we need all and fight them. Here are a few..but the socialist / marxist loves them because tax gives power

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest Expense (tax on the money)
Inventory Tax I
RS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (truckers)
Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes Toll
Tunnel Taxes
Trailer Registration
Tax Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers’ Compensation Tax



TomTurn -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 7:14:08 PM)

quote:

Have never seen a private fire department


You would have to travel to smaller towns, you know those towns where we cling to religion and guns. They are all over the country, you pay a subscription fee each year

quote:

Are you serious? Local public works include water/sewer infrastructure, and road/bridge maintenance. Do you seriously believe those can be privately funded?


Many, many are

quote:

If so, who is paying? Bill Gates?


Users

Who built the Golden gate bridge and maintains it? Is it a failure since the taxpayers funds were not involved?



todd_t -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 7:53:07 PM)

quote:

Then it should be easy to answer. Is my gross income mine and who is wiser in how it should be used?


Being wise or not is irrelevant regarding taxation as a principle. Income and property taxes are the law of the land. Do I love paying them? No, but they keep my community alive and its infrastructure going. As for local (city) taxes, I agree they can be insane and ticky-tacky. But then again, since I don't live in a big city they don't affect me.

As for the bevy of taxes you cite in that list, about 10% apply to me directly. The rest don't impact me at all.

However, if you feel so repellent to income and property taxes as a matter of principle, then why don't you literally put your money where your mouth is and stop filing your returns?

Come on, go for it.

After all, that plan worked out beautifully for Kent Hovind.



TomTurn -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 8:03:29 PM)

quote:

Being wise or not is irrelevant regarding taxation as a principle.


Since you do not want to answer the question, I will.

I am more wise as to how all the income I earn should be used, even in taxes.

quote:

As for the bevy of taxes you cite in that list, about 10% apply to me directly. The rest don't impact me at all.


No need to speak up for those who are. Just keep looking out for yourself

quote:

However, if you feel so repellent to income and property taxes as a matter of principle, then why don't you literally put your money where your mouth is and stop filing your returns?


God commands us to pay our taxes and I pay them all. There is no rule that I cannot fight those I see as unjust and that is what angers the socialst Christian the most.



todd_t -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 8:08:11 PM)

quote:

I am more wise as to how all the income I earn should be used, even in taxes.


This is nonsense. Why don't you send a letter to the IRS and tell them how wise you are. I'm sure they'll be deeply impressed.

quote:

God commands us to pay our taxes and I pay them all. There is no rule that I cannot fight those I see as unjust and that is what angers the socialist Christian the most.


Fight whichever taxes you want. It's your call. I guess I just don't get as furious over them as you do.



TomTurn -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 8:19:27 PM)

quote:

This is nonsense. Why don't you send a letter to the IRS and tell them how wise you are. I'm sure they'll be deeply impressed.


Well you do have to remember that I am just a typical white person from a small town, not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, whose life did not start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies.

(keep talking BHO, I need more tag lines)

quote:

I guess I just don't get as furious over them as you do.


Socialism needs them. No power without them.



todd_t -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 8:28:16 PM)

quote:

Well you do have to remember that I am just a typical white person from a small town, not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, whose life did not start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies.


Do you always take everything that politicians say so literally?

quote:

Socialism needs [taxes]. No power without them.


You are playing both sides of the fence.

On one hand you say you pay taxes because God commands it, so if taxes are an implied part of the American socialist machine, doesn't that make you implicit in its operations?

I mean, if you were truly a man of principle, you would stop paying all taxes you disagree with. It's the only truly moral stance to take.



earthless -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 8:30:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: todd_t


Do you always take everything that politicians say so literally?


All the Obama supporters sure do. As do all the President Bush haters. Hello pot?



TomTurn -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 8:39:19 PM)

quote:

On one hand you say you pay taxes because God commands it, so if taxes are an implied part of the American socialist machine, doesn't that make you implicit in its operations?


Makes me a slave to it

quote:

I mean, if you were truly a man of principle, you would stop paying all taxes you disagree with. It's the only truly moral stance to take.


One would think so but at the same time I am a man who attempts to follow God as best he can. So my principal guidlines come from Him and I become something the "world" does not understand.

Well not all the world because Barack Hussein Obama understands I am a typical white person from a small town, not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, whose life did not start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies



todd_t -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 8:59:46 PM)

quote:

Makes me a slave to it


Then free yourself. Stop paying taxes. You can't have it both ways. Either you take a consistent moral stance on taxation or not.

quote:

One would think so but at the same time I am a man who attempts to follow God as best he can. So my principal guidelines come from Him and I become something the "world" does not understand.


So you consider yourself to be above worldly definition?



TomTurn -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 9:14:19 PM)

quote:

Then free yourself.


Working on freeing from some

quote:

Stop paying taxes.


God says to pay them

quote:

You can't have it both ways. Either you take a consistent moral stance on taxation or not.


Are you against abortion?

quote:

So you consider yourself to be above worldly definition?


Not above but the world does not understand.

Are you a Believer?



todd_t -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 9:22:25 PM)

quote:

Are you against abortion?


Absolutely with no exceptions.

quote:

Are you a Believer?


Yes, I believe in the Bible without question.



TomTurn -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 10:00:44 PM)

quote:

Are you against abortion?


quote:

Absolutely with no exceptions.


But you do not speak out against it? Or are you actually an abortionist, since you live in a Nation that does millions of abortions?

"On one hand you say you pay taxes because God commands it, so if taxes are an implied part of the American socialist machine, doesn't that make you implicit in its operations?"

quote:

Are you a Believer?


quote:

Yes, I believe in the Bible without question.


If you are saying you Believe in God, that Christ is who He said He is, there should be no reason for me to explain. - "One would think so but at the same time I am a man who attempts to follow God as best he can. So my principal guidelines come from Him and I become something the "world" does not understand."

.......

Now back to the conversation. Obama can claim to be a Christian, yet that does not remove the fact that he is at best, a "light marxist" and eventually one will have to give. And I think for him it will be Christianity. His actions so far seem to show that.

The more I think about it and look at it, there is a real possibiltiy he is actually a "puppet" and that his wife Michelle is really the one "in charge"



csl7037 -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/14/2008 11:21:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: todd_t

You are playing both sides of the fence.

On one hand you say you pay taxes because God commands it, so if taxes are an implied part of the American socialist machine, doesn't that make you implicit in its operations?

I mean, if you were truly a man of principle, you would stop paying all taxes you disagree with. It's the only truly moral stance to take.


This argument you keep repeating is complete nonsense. As a man of principle, he is obeying the law of the land - "render under Caesar..." As a responsible, thinking, American, he is also speaking out against the blatant drive toward Socialism being forced on us because most are too selfish and/or stupid to realize the danger of it.

Are you a socialist? Are you an American Socialist - state educated, state supported, state indoctrinated to the point that you don't even know any better? You seem to enjoy paying taxes although you say you don't. You think the IRS knows best, the cities need our money because they say they do, and you just follow blindly. It's the sheepish abdication of personal responsibility and independent thought that is rapidly destroying our country.



TomTurn -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/15/2008 8:18:19 AM)

Without exessive taxes that continue to grow, socialism cannot survive. That tells you something about the failed system it is.

Both Obama and Clinton have left socialism behind and have advanced to marxism



P31W -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/15/2008 8:26:06 AM)

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest Expense (tax on the money)
Inventory Tax I
RS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (truckers)
Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes Toll
Tunnel Taxes
Trailer Registration
Tax Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers’ Compensation Tax


Thanks for the list Tom. Today is april 15. This is what I am going to be doing for the rest of my day!

State income tax underpayment for 2007
Federal income tax underpayment for 2007
First Federal est tax payment for 2008
First State est tax payment for 2008
941 Tax deposit for the month
491 Quarterly Tax return
490 Tax dep.
490 Quarterly return
State Quarterly return for w/h
State unemployment tax

When I complete these form I will stop off and pay some "fuel tax" inorder to get these to the bank and post office. If I pick up a coke I will pay sales tax.

Then I will return to my office and start on the various State Sales Tax forms I must collect, report and pay by Friday. (the government pays me alot to be their tax collector!!! And if I make a "mistake" they charge me interest and a penalties - what a joy!)

(our government is not too big!!! After all I do still have "Sundays off" from work - of course that is not a "tax exempt day.....I still pay taxes on Sundays)

Hey you forgot some!!!!.

DOT tax

Work permits (may be required by the city, county and state depending upon where you want to work) It's nice to be required to pay taxes inorder "to work".

And don't even get me started on the taxes you are hit with when you begin to develope some land and the enviromental folks come to town. Or the local city gets your neck in a vice.

I also don't see Drivers License Tax



P31W -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/15/2008 8:39:41 AM)

quote:

Well you do have to remember that I am just a typical white person from a small town, not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, whose life did not start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies.

(keep talking BHO, I need more tag lines)


Tom I hope that BHO keeps it up as well. I enjoy so much your post!!!!! [:D][:D][:D] LOL



TomTurn -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/15/2008 9:12:16 AM)

Thanks, it is a growing signature line and I do enjoy watching Christians who should know better try and defend this socialist / marxist clown. But then many Christians have bought into the lies of socialism / marxism, not knowig that for it to grow, Christ has to go.



Jhud -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/15/2008 10:37:38 AM)

Getting back to the actual topic of the thread, while I think it would be wrong to say that Obama is offering overtly Marxist political solutions, I would say that it is increasingly evident that his view of society and government is intentionally or inadvertently, Marxist.

By this I mean that he feels the primary factors that motivate human choices are political and economic, that the world can be best understood in terms of class designations, and that fundamental change to society will come through reforming our economic conditions which will have the ultimate effect of bettering human relations.



csl7037 -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/15/2008 11:38:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

Getting back to the actual topic of the thread, while I think it would be wrong to say that Obama is offering overtly Marxist political solutions, I would say that it is increasingly evident that his view of society and government is intentionally or inadvertently, Marxist.


He's not offering overtly Marxist political solutions but he's walking a fine line, don't you think? And what's going to happen when he's past pandering for votes and sits in the Oval Office? We're going to get to see his social agenda full bore. Why are so many people falling for this?



P31W -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/15/2008 11:54:50 AM)

quote:

Why are so many people falling for this?


Where did most get their education?

Who taught them how and what to think?

The Obama comment about clinging to our guns and religion. Back some 25 years ago I had almost the exact same thing said to me by a college professor. He said that once I was educated enough I would not need the "crutch of religion" to help me understand why certain things happen. Religion is the crutch that ignorant people use because they are not educated enough.

Had I not had a strong Christian education and background I may have believed he was "smart".



TomTurn -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/15/2008 12:05:24 PM)

A reminder of some Obama campaigners

#1

#2

No, he has no marxist leanings



colliefan -> RE: Obama's Marxism? (4/15/2008 1:07:51 PM)

The danger lies in the Black Liberation Theology that has been intregal in the teachings of his home church of twenty years. In this teaching, one is liberated from sin by liberating them from poverty. And the agent of this change is the benevolant Nanny State.



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