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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/21/2008 4:43:50 PM
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deliveredarling
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I need to clarify something, Are you saying that repentance isn't needed or necessary?
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/21/2008 5:48:29 PM
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deliveredarling
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Cherished, I am absolutely shocked that you would post what you did, especially after the thread you started titled Repentance!!!!!! Are you double minded? Are you arguing for arguments sake? Pick a side would you???????
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/21/2008 7:25:16 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2836
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Cherished, I am absolutely shocked that you would post what you did, especially after the thread you started titled Repentance!!!!!! Are you double minded? Are you arguing for arguments sake? Pick a side would you???????
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~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/21/2008 8:07:00 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2841
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
This was why I was questioning the who future sins being forgiven in the first place. it's almost like it is premeditated sin with a free pass. this is not what the Bible says.
Are the sins of those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit forgiven by God now or in the future? Is God bound by time? Does He have to wait till when something is manifested? I don't believe so...
As for future sins... It's my belief that anyone is who truly made into a new creature in Christ will not look to the bible and say, WOW... Cool my sins are covered by the shed blood of Christ I can do whatever I please... The new heart given by God is no longer under the darkness of fallen man, but under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit...
The following suggests that Christ is an active Advocate for His people...His work on the cross is done, but a Shepards work is never done...
Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
quote:
How do you see this as the Bible being used as a whipping board? Do you really think that it is wise for someone to go up to a non-believer and shove scriptures that mean nothing to them in their face? It would not have worked on me and I certainly don't expect it to work on others. We are on a Christian forum, so I would guess that under the heading of Bible, there would be Christians posting on the forum, so i directed it to a specified audience, not addressing non-believers.....
How do you know what would have work on you or not? When man is dead in the Spirit all things of the Spirit are foolishness.... Man just plants and waters, but it's God who causes the growth... Faith comes by hearing the word...
John
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/21/2008 8:49:47 PM
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deliveredarling
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I know it wouldn't have worked on me because it didn't.... it was tried and rejected. Planted maybe and watered much later in life. As for that particular time, a 2X4 upside the head would not have made a difference!
Regarding future sins, it all boils down to choice. it is not a free pass... And I totally agree that a new creature will not and does not look at it like that. However, there are some that most certainly do see it that way. it is the watered down gospel. God has given us the HS to lead us into knowledge.... "therefore to him who knows what is right and does not do it, to him it is sin".
Again, scripture is pretty clear.
No whipping board, just straight forward and point blank telling like it is.
< Message edited by deliveredarling -- 4/21/2008 8:59:21 PM >
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/21/2008 11:47:13 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2841
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I know it wouldn't have worked on me because it didn't.... it was tried and rejected. Planted maybe and watered much later in life. As for that particular time, a 2X4 upside the head would not have made a difference!
In the long term it did given the following...
1 Thessalonians 5:18 In everything give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
quote:
Regarding future sins, it all boils down to choice. it is not a free pass...
True, but sin will not separate you from God and just as one didn't gain salvation by their actions, nor can one keep it by their action, or lose it for that matter. He will deal with His people regarding sin... Moses and King David being good examples... Even Peter with his huge amount of pride... Or for that matter Paul... Who had to live with the memory of his past with a unique understanding of God's grace, talk about the double-edge sword...
quote:
And I totally agree that a new creature will not and does not look at it like that. However, there are some that most certainly do see it that way. it is the watered down gospel.
Who are these people you are referring to?
quote:
God has given us the HS to lead us into knowledge.... "therefore to him who knows what is right and does not do it, to him it is sin".
That's a nice verse for sins of omission... Too many people believe that sin has to be an action, yet not doing something can be just as sinful...
John
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/22/2008 1:38:26 AM
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BibleL7
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HHmmmmm just wondering how turning from sins and turning to Jesus is not repentance seeing as that is the definition of it. As to sins past present and future, He paid for all sins if we do not accept the grace we are not forgiven. Remember that when we become believers then we are no longer slaves to sin. Delivered from bondage of sin does not mean we will not struggle with it but we can choose not to sin and as to it being a struggle read Romans chapter 7. But what really applies to your original and secondary question is Jesus said 'If you love me you will obey my commandments.' We are to turn from sin and follow Him.
Just the opinion of a small town preacher
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/22/2008 6:09:08 AM
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deliveredarling
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Sin does separate us from God, if it didn't it would be ok to do it.
Does it mean that He doesn't love us? Certainly not. When we choose to willingly sin, we choose the world and not Him.
These are the people I am referring to,
"They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient, and worthless for any good deed."
Many in the church today abuse the idea of Grace because they do not understand what it is, believing that it is a free pass.
The vs that I used doesn't refer to sins of omission, "to him who knows", indicates a conscious choice......
I totally agree that not doing something can be just as sinful.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bible 7,
Romans 7 is all about the struggle, Rom 8 is all about the deliverance,
Repentance is necessary for repentance, I agree that it is turning from the sin to Jesus. It means to stop doing whatever it is. That point was brought up in a previous post ans I understood that poster to say repentance was necessary. I beg to differ. Jesus thinks its very necessary.
Luke 13:5
"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."
The verses before and after are all about repentance. His parable tells us what happens if we don't.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/22/2008 8:38:51 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2278
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From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Thank you for your responses. However, I have another question. If our future sins are already forgiven, then why do we need to repent? Are we then not free to do whatever we want because we are already forgiven? I see this as very dangerous theology. He does not allow us to do whatever we want, but calls us to be holy. i think this statement in itself gives leeway to living a sinful life justified by the Grace He has so generously bestowed on us. An abuse of theology, if you will.
If you have been born again, you will use your freedom to love and serve God.
2 Corinthians 5
17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 2
20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
John 8
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 14
15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Ephesians 5
8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
John 3
21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
If there is no new creature, there was no new birth. The new creature is one who is being sanctified. He is not yet perfect.
What is SANCTIFICATION?
It is God's gracious and powerful work of making sinners holy in heart and conduct through the internal ministry of the Holy Spirit, applying the death and resurrection of Christ to them, so that they increasingly die to sin and live unto righteousness in the whole man.
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/22/2008 9:38:26 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 886
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We are in complete agreement. The questions of mine that you reposted, were asked in a somewhat tongue in cheek fashion. This question came from a sermon my preacher had preached the prior Sunday. In one sentence he said past, present and future sins forgiven, in the next, he completely left out the part of sanctification. What I heard from him, was the license to sin. I believe biblically speaking, these are referred to as apostates.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/23/2008 9:01:06 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2841
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Sin does separate us from God, if it didn't it would be ok to do it.
Does it mean that He doesn't love us? Certainly not. When we choose to willingly sin, we choose the world and not Him.
Seperate in what way? Removal from the flock? Prayers are hindered? What?
John
Romons 8:36-39
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/24/2008 5:58:39 AM
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deliveredarling
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Well, let's see here, if you sin and do not confess it or repent of it, it just sits there and grows, kinda of like mold. It's yucky and doesn't feel good or even smell good, yet it grows in the darkness. Sin is dark, Jesus is the light, when He shines upon it, it dies and goes away forever. Feeling yucky is the separation. We are ashamed and don't want to take it to God because we haven't become miserable, YET. Sometimes the sin is "fun" and we aren't ready to give it up. That in and of itself separates us from Him. It's not Him separating from us, it is us separating from Him.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/24/2008 10:22:57 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2841
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Well, let's see here, if you sin and do not confess it or repent of it, it just sits there and grows, kinda of like mold. It's yucky and doesn't feel good or even smell good, yet it grows in the darkness. Sin is dark, Jesus is the light, when He shines upon it, it dies and goes away forever. Feeling yucky is the separation. We are ashamed and don't want to take it to God because we haven't become miserable, YET. Sometimes the sin is "fun" and we aren't ready to give it up. That in and of itself separates us from Him. It's not Him separating from us, it is us separating from Him.
Jesus isn't static...
Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Those He made a new creature will seek Him out, will repent... Not because of themselves, but because of the change He made, the new heart and spirit will cry out for forgiveness...
John
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/24/2008 10:43:17 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 886
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That is absolutely true, yet we still sin...... We do it everyday, sometimes we even ignore the still small voice we hear. He's not leaving us, we chose to ignore Him. We stepped away.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/24/2008 3:47:45 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2841
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
That is absolutely true, yet we still sin...... We do it everyday, sometimes we even ignore the still small voice we hear. He's not leaving us, we chose to ignore Him. We stepped away.
That sounds better... I just can't wrap myself around the seperated concept... He's always right there... Our unfaithfulness(Thank God) doesn't remove Him and thank Him that He uses it to convict us to our knees to seek His face with the new heart and spirit that will (In God's time) seek Him out...
God, the perfect being who is so far and above our filth will lower Himself down in order to do the following...
Isaiah 46:4 And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you.
I cannot grasp the meaure of humility Christ must have had to endure what He did for the likes of myself...
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 4/24/2008 4:48:46 PM >
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/24/2008 7:10:25 PM
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gmc4Jesus
Posts: 172
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
If our future sins are already forgiven, then why do we need to repent? Are we then not free to do whatever we want because we are already forgiven? When I read the above quote, I couldn't help but think of Romans 6:1, 2: "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?" If we are dead to sin then we are truly free to do whatever we want to. The thing is our "want to's" will have changed. We will no longer want to sin. If we think we are dead to sin and we still want to sin, something ain't right. 
The entire chapter of Romans 6 needs to be read in regards to this issue. Paul advises us that we are free from sin's power and, as Christians, should avoid sinful behavior at all costs.
Jesus died for our sins, past, present and future. However, that is not license to go on sinning, but simply a statement that if we do fail in the future at resisting a temptation on occasion, we don't have to go back and "get saved" all over again. Jesus already paid the price and because we sincerely believe in Him and are trying to follow His will, God's grace covers those sins.
If we think we can continue in sin because Jesus already paid for it, we are not showing our love for Him or respect for God. In John 14:15, Jesus said, If you love me, you will obey what I command." In other Scriptures, Jesus advises us that sinners will not enter the Kingdom of God. We must repent of our sinful behavior and seek to live obedient to God. If we do sin, it is forgiven unless we are defiantly rebelling against God and rejecting what Jesus did on the cross for our sins.
God bless you as you continue getting to know Jesus.
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 4/25/2008 5:43:36 AM
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deliveredarling
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GM, this is my understanding too. Although I did hear it spoken of differently. The problem came in when we only discussed the forgiveness aspect and did not continue on to sanctification. In others words only half the story was presented. I am finding though that others do not view it this way and it makes me sad.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 5/24/2008 11:28:27 PM
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Tomb
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Hey Deliveredarling, you have raised a very good point. I fear you have asked it in the wrong crowd though. If I understand most people on this site, they say you cannot in any way be separated from God once you become a Christian. That is not what the bible teaches. That is what some people believe (OSAS).
Your question about why do the scriptures require Christians to repent is totally opposite of what many of these people have been taught. It also proves all of future sins are not pre-forgiven before we commit them.
Simon believed and was baptized and so was all those in Samaria in (Acts 8). This would mean they were Christians,yet in (Acts 8:22) Simon was told to repent and pray for forgiveness. This one scripture is enough for you to ask your question. Many claim Simon was not a Christian,but what does the text say? He done what is required in (Mark 16:16) and (Acts 2:38).
Next - (1John 1:9) when writting to Christians,they were told -
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
This was wrote to Christians. If you follow the word "we" all the way back to the first of the chapter you will see it was referring to the apostles (Christians),but it also referred to any Christian.
Notice the word "IF" in (1John 1:9). This makes the forgiveness of sins conditional. If a Christian does not confess the Lord does not forgive.
As far as I know the bible does not speak of Christians having future sins forgiven,only past sins are forgiven when we obey the Lord (Rom.6:16-18). They were free from past sins when they were baptized in (Rom.6:3-6). The baptism being referred to is what happened in (Acts 8:38,39).
As far as the woman at the well,when He told her to go and sin no more,that was telling her to repent.
(Isa.59:1,2) teaches us a principle which will continue till the end of time.
1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Sin separates man from God (whether Christians or not).
Sin is transgression of the law (1John 3:4). Thus we must be under a law to sin (N.T Will of Christ) (Gal.6:2) (Rom.3:27) (Heb.8:10).
Deliveredarling I hope you will check out GBNtv below. You can also write the Christian courier to get bible answers. There Wayne Jackson writes short biblical lessons I think you will appreciate.
GBNTV - Gospel Broadcasting Network TV
Great Bible Lessons
http://www.gbntv.org/
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missionprinting.us - - click on publications
gospelpreceptor.com
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 5/24/2008 11:50:11 PM
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Tomb
Posts: 270
Joined: 8/31/2007
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Hi again, I also had one other thought.
(Heb.10:26-31) teaches that if a Christian remains in any continual wilful sin there comes a point where there remains no more sacrifice for sin. It is at that point that they must repent to once again be reconciled to God (Luke 13:3) (Acts 17:30) (Acts 8:22) (1John 1:9).
(Rev. 2:5) - 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
The warning above was wrote to Christians.
http://missionprinting.us/mp_newindex.html
Click on publications
I highly recommend the booklet entitled -
"A Reply To A Denominational Preacher"
_____________________________
missionprinting.us - - click on publications
gospelpreceptor.com
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 5/26/2008 8:42:33 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 886
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Hi Tomb, sorry it took so long for me to reply. I have been out of town for a few days. This topic seems to have a trickle effect. Thee have been debates for weeks on end to the different fingers of a watered down gospel. When I posed this question, I couldn't think of a single verse that would back this line of thinking up. When the preacher said it, it just went all over me.... To make sure, I asked. As you have seen the responses lean toward all sin being forgiven. How can something be forgiven that hasn't even been committed yet? i just can't help but hear when people say this, that it is a license to sin. Why bother following Christ and obeying His commandments if we have no need for forgiveness? To live like this, truly indicates a lack of heart knowledge of Him. I suppose in essence, people who claim this, have spoken the "sinners prayer" (which there is no such thing) and think they are saved. it's the convenient Christianity. People have conforms the Bible and doctrines to fit with the world rather than lining it up with God's Word.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 5/29/2008 5:12:20 PM
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Tomb
Posts: 270
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Hello Deliveredarling,it is wonderful to meet someone who is asking for what the bible teaches alone. Most people I run across are teaching faith alone saves. That cannot be found in the word of God. As you have also stated the "sinners prayer" is manmade and is not biblical.
I hope you will continue seeking the word of God.
tomb
< Message edited by Tomb -- 5/29/2008 5:25:31 PM >
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RE: Need help finding a scripture please - 6/3/2008 10:49:08 PM
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Tomb
Posts: 270
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quote:
ORIGINAL: futuremartyr
Why are we supposed to seek God's forgiveness if He has already forgiven us?
Hi futuremartyr, I hope you doing well.
You have asked a very good question. Some say the Lord forgave everyones sins upon the cross when he died. That sounds very appealing. Let us go to the word of God to answer this question.
We find that those in (Acts 2:36) were in fact the very ones who crucified Jesus.
.... whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Peter is speaking to these same people who crucified Jesus and brings before them the very sin they committed. They being pr***ed in their heart asked Peter the following question -
What shall we do?
Peter did not tell them Jesus had already forgiven them and they need not do anything. I realize that is what preachers today are teaching,but what does the inspired man of God say to these people asking the question - What Shall We Do? (Acts 2:37).
Peter tells them to Repent & Be Baptized for the remission of their sins (Acts 2:38).
Those who gladly received the words of God (3000 people) were baptized (Acts 2:41).
...And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. (Acts 2:47).
An inspired man of God did not tell those asking "What Shall We Do?" God had already forgiven them. In fact Peter said just the opposite. He said to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins.
Now the question is - Who are you going to believe? Peter (an Apostle) or some other man teaching another gospel? (Gal.1:6-9).
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
What kind of baptism was Peter speaking about? We learn that in (Acts 8:38,39).
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Notice rejoicing came after the water baptism. That is because the eunuch knew what the apostle Paul learned in (Acts 22:16).
1. Arise
2. Be Baptized
3. Wash Away Your Sins
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