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[Poll]
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Do we have a right to enjoy God?
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Total Votes : 23
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(last vote on : 5/13/2008 7:50:33 PM)
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RE: The questions Christians will ask! ; ) - 4/20/2008 4:53:16 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 8803
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I realize the Westminster Catechism is not a quote from scripture but it is based on scripture.
I would say it's actually a responsibility
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RE: The questions Christians will ask! ; ) - 4/20/2008 9:00:44 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
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I guess what this really comes back to is why we were created. We were not created to sin. We were not created primarily to give leadership to the earth (that job was not given to man until the man had a wife). So why were we made? Quite simply, to love God. We were told to "tend the garden"... but there were no weeds, there was no rain, and everything grew pretty much of it's own accord. So what was God after when He said to tend the garden? Make it look nice. It is my belief that man was created primarily to commune with, bring pleasure to, and derive pleasure from God. And yet, God finds pleasure in us even when we are spiritually immature, dealing with sin, and clueless about His immense beauty (Song of Solomon 1).quote:
To assume we won't have a reaction of some kind to enjoying God though is very limited understanding IMO. Do we have a right as in a DEMAND to enjoy God? No. But then I almost think it's a given as a believer to enjoy Him. Wouldn't it be odd not to? SavedbyGrace, excellent post... you have driven pretty close to the heart of what I am getting at (and yes, Bernard of Clairveaux is an amazing source of doctrine on this)...quote:
Are there such things as SAD Christians who don't enjoy God? (And who aren't bothered by that?) I suppose there are . . . Maybe long ago in dark, medieval monasteries, I don't know. This is the one thing I would argue with from your post. Thanks to the idea of Sola Scriptura (which has it's merits) many are more in love with their Bible than they are with God. As for those in the monasteries, quite a few of them were the most passionate, "on fire" God people you will ever see. They were so violently anti-"spirit of the age" that they fled the influences of society to take vows of poverty, silence, solitude and many others as a way to flee the carnality and sinfulness of the world around them. But that is a different topic, IMO.quote:
We do have the "privilege" to "delight ourselves" in the Lord (Ps.37:4), but along with that privilege comes the responsibility to (1) "trust in the LORD" and (2) "do good" (Ps. 37:3).
There is also a subtle difference between "enjoying God" (which is hedonism) and "delighting ourselves" in God (which is worship). Hedonism is only promoted in heathenism.
See, this is what I'm talking about. You have placed the idea of enjoying God is the catagory of sin, but if we DO something (delighting ourselves) it is Godly? Due to the doctrine of depravity, I would place those two ideas in exact opposite catagories. If we enjoy God, we are deriving pleasure from who He is, what He is, and what He has done... wheras if we derive pleasure from doing "godly things", we are attempting to fill the void where we want to feel God with all of our righteous acts that will never satisfy. Faith without works is dead... yet works without faith are useless in the longrun.quote:
Nowadays people stress their "rights" while ignoring their "responsibilities". This has become commonplace, and may have something to do with Christians talking about their "right" to enjoy God.
But our relationship is NOT a right, but a privilege, since what we have received from God is the gift of Himself, the gift of His Son, and the gift of the Holy Spirit. Our relationship is a priveledge. That relationship also bears certain rights (such as coming before the throne of grace with boldness) because we are no longer slaves, but sons.quote:
And if it is not a "right" then it is a privilege. Not necessarily. If it is not a right, it could be a duty, a priveledge, an invitation, or even a side-effect. It is an overly narrow view that you are taking of rights and priveledges.quote:
I would say it's actually a responsibility Agreed... but what a responsibility!
Adam
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RE: The questions Christians will ask! ; ) - 4/21/2008 6:55:17 AM
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DaveW
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No.
The only "right" anyone has is the right to be judged and thrown into hell.
Everything else is God's mercy shown to us. It is not a right.
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RE: The questions Christians will ask! ; ) - 4/21/2008 11:16:21 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 968
Joined: 2/25/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
What is the chief end of man?
Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever
I agree with the Westminster Catechism on that one.
That's what I was going to say.
Actually, it's not so much a right but the reason we were created.
And if it is not a "right" then it is a privilege.
As to the wording of the Westminster Catechism, that is not an exact quotation from Scripture. It is a man-made approximation.
If you go through a Concordance and look up the word "enjoy" as used in the KJV (and the Westminster Catechism used the KJV) it either pertains to earthly things or "the pleasures of sin". Not once does Scripture say "enjoy God forever".
I never said it was scripture, only that I agreed with it.
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RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 5/9/2008 1:21:17 PM
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lovejoylynn2
Posts: 10
Joined: 3/23/2007
From: North of Boston
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Do you have a Scripture to back up the assertion that we have a right to enjoy God?
The Bible speaks of joy in the following passages:
27 "For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. 28 You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.'" -Acts 2
In that verse we see that we have joy In His presence because He saved us from hell and because we will spend eternity with Him.
9 "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full." -John 15
In that verse we see that we have joy because of Christ's love and will continue to have it if we follow His commandments.
We have no rights. We have been bought and paid for at an enormous price and because of that we are bondservants and are here to serve the One who owns us. We are to live to please God, to glorify Him, and give Him honor. In doing that we will have great joy because we our pleasing our Master. It's not about us, it's about Him.
The attitude of our hearts should be...
12 "How can I repay You, Lord for all Your goodness to me?" -Psalm 116
...not, "What pleasure can I get out of this?"
In cultivating hearts of gratitude, we will find joy!
We are sons and daughters adopted into God's family, so yes, we have the rights of a child who is a co-heir with Jesus. We definately have the 'right' to enjoy God.
Ga 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
We're not slaves, we're son's and friends of God. Children have the right to enjoy their father or more correctly, children have the natural desire to enjoy their father./ I wouldn't necessarily say that it's a 'right' God gave us, it's more a natural inclination to enjoy the one we are in love with./
Yes oh yes, how I agree! When you love how can you not enjoy? And what about "Delight thyself in the Lord.."? Our Father delights in His creation and oh how much He loves us ,that He would give His only Son! Truly, in my walk with the Lord, His joy is my strength and I think that qualifies for enjoyment!
I, too, agree that if we are His children, walking with Him, there is joy in the presence of the Lord! Is not "joy" part of "enjoy"? 
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RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 5/10/2008 7:05:18 AM
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faithfulservant_
Posts: 218
Joined: 3/6/2008
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quote:
original: lovejoylynn2
Yes oh yes, how I agree! When you love how can you not enjoy? And what about "Delight thyself in the Lord"?
I know what you mean. How can I not enjoy God when I am in love with Him? I love to pray, read the bible, go to church, sing praise songs, listen to my pastor. The freedom I have to enjoy God is awesome.
< Message edited by faithfulservant1 -- 5/10/2008 7:22:05 AM >
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