RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (Full Version)

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greatdivide46 -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/27/2008 8:25:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Him4all

If it's 'your baptism' then how do you resolve the multiple baptisms which are scripturally required for foundational doctrines of The Faith in Heb 6?
I'm not entirely convinced that the multiple "baptisms" mentioned in Hebrews 6 are a foundational doctrine of The Faith. The translation I use translates that word "washings" instead of "baptisms" which I suspect is a better translation. So, it could be referring back to all the washings that the Jews had to do in order to be clean in God's sight.

quote:

It's been my experience that personal modes of water baptism has brought not only lack of unity, but actual church splits and relational conflict to the body of Christ even to this day. So how does 'your baptism' maintain Spiritual unity? Were you sprinkled or dunked were you of age or an infant, was it in a stangant pool or running water ect. ect. See what I mean? All those variables have promoted division...not unity.
I agree that teachings concerning modes of water baptism has brought lack of unity and actual church splits and relational conflict to the body of Christ even to this day. I believe that's because men somehow get it in their minds what they believe and then try to make the Bible fit that.

Personally, I have been sprinkled and "dunked." I was of age and an infant. I've never been baptized in running water, though. I have been "dunked" twice though. Once for salvation and once to join a Southern Baptist church that would not accept my immersion in a different church. Another example of disunity, I suppose.

But I really think the disunity in the church today is due to man's sinful nature and not to the disparity of doctrines, although that's the excuse.



Heavendweller -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/27/2008 2:21:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: greatdivide46:
"Personally, I have been sprinkled and "dunked." I was of age and an infant. I've never been baptized in running water, though. I have been "dunked" twice though. Once for salvation and once to join a Southern Baptist church that would not accept my immersion in a different church. Another example of disunity, I suppose."
This had me laughing. Quite a departure from the Reformers, wouldn't ya say? One could find themselves in quite a quandary in changing church membership these days. The possibilities are endless! For example, one could be baptized as an infant in a Lutheran church, then re-baptized in a Reformed Church because the infant baptism was unscriptural, then re-baptised in a Southern Baptist church because the previous two weren't acceptable, then re-baptized in an Independent Baptist church, because they are the only one's who follow the Scriptural teaching on Baptism, then be re-baptized again in a One-ness Pentecostal church because they weren't baptized in "Jesus' name only" then join a non-denominational church (your garden variety type of which there are many) and be told that Baptism is of no importance whatsoever!

The result would be, I think, a very perplexed Christian indeed. Now I'm hoping those who read this have a sense of humor. [:D]

quote:

But I really think the disunity in the church today is due to man's sinful nature and not to the disparity of doctrines, although that's the excuse.

Is it possible, greatdivide, that it is man's sinful nature which is the root cause for the disparity of doctrines? "I'm right, no I'm right and you're wrong. Ah, the whole lot of you are wrong and we're right." But the question must then be asked, who is right? Right? [8D]

Heavendweller



figmentPez -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/27/2008 11:48:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Him4all

"One Lord"...is that speaking of you or Jesus?
"One faith"...is that faith in you or Jesus?
"One God"and Father...is that like when Isa 9:6 said Jesus' name was "mighty God, Everlasting Father or is it talking about you?

Now, we only have "One baptism" left in that list, so the question is: Is that 'a baptism' that pertains to Jesus...or to you?

LUK 12:50 But I/Jesus have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

The baptism spoken of here is the baptism of the death of Jesus on the cross. And that is the only baptism necessary for us to ALL believe in, which will determine whether we maintain the unity of the Spirit or not...which is the context of Eph 4:3 and this whole list to begin with.


Colossians 2:12
12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

That one baptism, the one that believers participate in, is the same baptism that Jesus Christ endured. When Christians are baptized, we join in with the baptism of Jesus Christ. One baptism. Ephesians 4 is most certainly applicable to this discussion.



Him4all -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/28/2008 12:23:56 AM)

Larry,

quote:

I don't have time to address it right now but the Isaiah reference to Jesus being the Everlasting Father is probably not a reference to His being God. It is not a denial of Jesus' Godhood but the historical context would probably argue against it--not to mention that it hurts rather than helps the trinitarian doctrine.


I didn't openly come out and said this, but my posts weren't trying to confirm Him being God and the everlasting Father in the Isaiah and Ephesians quotes. I think what they're trying to say is that He has the authority of God and Father. That's why I kept posting name like this: name/authority. 'Name' carries with it the connotation of character and authority and not just a moniker. I've made that point many times here at CW. I've used the example of "Open the door in the name of the law" and how, when you look through the peephole you aren't looking for a nametag with 'Law' written on it. Hope that clears things up a bit. [8|]

GreatDivide,

quote:

It's what people think I believe that makes me seem disagreeable


I think we're all pretty 'opinionated' here...I know I certainly am. [;)]

quote:

The translation I use translates that word "washings" instead of "baptisms" which I suspect is a better translation.


My favorite translation also says washings. But as I've studied this subject I've come to the conclusion that my 'RSV and washings' is not the best interpretation IMO. [&o]

quote:

Personally, I have been sprinkled and "dunked." I was of age and an infant. I've never been baptized in running water, though. I have been "dunked" twice though.


I too was sprinkled as an infant and then dunked as a believer after getting born again. But!!!, at least I WAS dunked in a 'flowing river'...so all those nasty sins which were washed off of me (and all the filthy sinners dunked before me) got washed away. Sorry yours didn't cause you were in that old stagnant pool that everybody elses sins were still floating around in. [:)] At least that what the people who are hung up on the 'flowing river' trip try to preach. But then people try to tell me they're cleaner than me because I like baths better than showers...[sm=unsure.gif] You just can't make everyone happy. [:o]

DR



CurlyQ19 -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/28/2008 7:44:56 PM)

quote:

Are you claiming that the disciples, who knew the scriptures very well, were ignorant of the name of the LORD?

Exodus 3:15
God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you ' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations."

Are you saying that God lied, and that the LORD is not His name for all generations? Are you saying that God changed and decided His name was something different than what He said that it is?


here is an analogy, i am the brother of Lee i am the brother of Scott i and the brother of Rose, my name has never changed though it is still James! and i could go on an on about being the son of so and so the uncle of so and so etc. but my name has never changed!

so if Jesus is God,(son of God) that means the scripture would have to contradict itself because it already gave the name! would you agree or disagree that there are inner names of God? if you agree, what is the name of the Father the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Ghost?

obviously God has many names/attributes about him as read throughout the Bible, Mighty God, Prince of Peace, Healer, Redeemer, Emmanual, which means "God with us" etc. and his name is Jesus! but i can carry attributes just like that too! i am an athelete, musician, worker, etc. My name, though, is James! dont take me wrong i am not trying to compare mself to God because obviously no one is remotely close to that! but i am making an example that if i have attributes like this how much more can God have these attributes applied to him!

I dont know if i was clear enough about my opening post to start this thread, but what i mean by baptism is immersion of water! thats it! sorry if i have directed people in the wrong direction! my bad, forgive me!



ta_mosquito -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/28/2008 7:51:18 PM)

So God's name isn't YHVH?



CurlyQ19 -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/28/2008 7:54:04 PM)

before i forget can anyone show me where the disciples disobeyed Jesus because they baptized in Jesus name? or can anyone show me where there are examples of people being baptized in Father Son and Holy Ghost? so far no one has given me anything valid concerning this?

Reread post #1 if you haven't yet!



CurlyQ19 -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/28/2008 7:56:12 PM)

quote:

So God's name isn't YHVH?



i dont believe that i said it wasn't!



ta_mosquito -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/28/2008 7:57:14 PM)

Well, you keep saying that God's name is Jesus, so I was checking.



abu_khomar -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/29/2008 3:51:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito

Well, you keep saying that God's name is Jesus, so I was checking.

Is Jesus not the name of God? Does God have only One Name?



ta_mosquito -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/29/2008 4:29:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: abu_khomar

quote:

ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito

Well, you keep saying that God's name is Jesus, so I was checking.

Is Jesus not the name of God? Does God have only One Name?


That's what I thought CurlyQ was implying.



figmentPez -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/29/2008 5:36:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CurlyQ19

quote:

So God's name isn't YHVH?


i dont believe that i said it wasn't!


You said that the Apostles did not know it!

quote:

ORIGINAL: abu_khomar

Is Jesus not the name of God? Does God have only One Name?


Jesus is a name of God, but it is not THE name of God. God has only one name that He has revealed to be His memoral-name for all generations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CurlyQ19

here is an analogy, i am the brother of Lee i am the brother of Scott i and the brother of Rose, my name has never changed though it is still James! and i could go on an on about being the son of so and so the uncle of so and so etc. but my name has never changed!

so if Jesus is God,(son of God) that means the scripture would have to contradict itself because it already gave the name! would you agree or disagree that there are inner names of God? if you agree, what is the name of the Father the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Ghost?

obviously God has many names/attributes about him as read throughout the Bible, Mighty God, Prince of Peace, Healer, Redeemer, Emmanual, which means "God with us" etc. and his name is Jesus! but i can carry attributes just like that too! i am an athelete, musician, worker, etc. My name, though, is James! dont take me wrong i am not trying to compare mself to God because obviously no one is remotely close to that! but i am making an example that if i have attributes like this how much more can God have these attributes applied to him!


First, on the name Jesus. Jesus is an English adaptation of a Latinized version of a Greek alteration of a Hebrew name that was probably a shortened version of a longer Hebrew name. Yeshua (a closer English version of the original Hebrew) means, roughly, "He Saves", "He will save" or "He is salvation". This is the same name translated as Joshua elsewhere in scripture. There is a longer version of the name (like Will is short for William), Yehoshua, which means "YHWH is salvation". So, in a very real sense, the name Jesus is a reference to the name YHWH.

The name of God, YHWH, is translated as LORD (all caps) in most English translations (and there are numerous reason for this, including that YHWH is translated into the Greek word for "lord" in NT quotations of OT scripture). YHWH is used over six thousand times in the OT. It is most certainly the name of God, and was most certainly known to the Apostles. There is a big difference between all the descriptive titles of the LORD, and His name as used in scripture.

You asked a question:
quote:

what is the name of the Father the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Ghost?


YHWH / LORD. This is God's memorial-name for all generations, and it is the name of the Father, it is the name of the Son, it is the name of the Holy Spirit. It is the name above all names. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is called LORD multiple times in the NT.



abu_khomar -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/29/2008 6:27:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: figmentPez

quote:

ORIGINAL: CurlyQ19

quote:

So God's name isn't YHVH?


i dont believe that i said it wasn't!


You said that the Apostles did not know it!

quote:

ORIGINAL: abu_khomar

Is Jesus not the name of God? Does God have only One Name?


Jesus is a name of God, but it is not THE name of God. God has only one name that He has revealed to be His memoral-name for all generations.


So you are saying that Jesus is more a....title, than a name?



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/30/2008 2:01:48 AM)

Jesus is the translated name of God the Son.

Matthew 1
21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.



Him4all -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (4/30/2008 12:53:45 PM)

abu_khomar,

quote:

Is Jesus not the name of God? Does God have only One Name?


JOH 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the 'manifested in the flesh' name of the nature and character of the God of grace and truth. This is His revealed name to those of the Christian faith in the NT.

Jehovah is the manifested name/nature of the law giver and warring God, and is the God of Israel. This was not the manifested name of God to Abraham Issac and Jacob. They did not know God as lawgiver or war. They did not know the name or the nature of Jehovah.

EXO 6:2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD/yahweh: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty/El Shaddai, but by my name JEHOVAH/Jehovah was I not known to them.

El Shadai is the name of God manifested to His creation before the law was given. It is also the feminine name/nature/character of God. It's derived from the Hebrew word Shad which means 'the breast of a woman'. The understanding of bible word etymologists couldn't handle that thought of a 'feminine God' and wouldn't go to the word of origin from which Shaddai was derived from.

When God's creation was in its infancy it was under the nurturing and mothering nature of His multifaceted Being (women rejoice!). Hence the mother name/nature of the Godhead. That same principle and nature exists in families today...mothers take care of the baby and breast feed them. But just like healthy families today in the later years of childrearing...When daddy comes home 'Here comes the LAW'. That aspect of the nature of god was manifested as Jehovah or Father God. It was the name/nature of law and war.

When Jesus appeared/manifested we were taught to not follow the Law and war but quite the contrary. We were told to love your enemy, turn the cheek, give your cloak, pay your taxes (No Boston tea party), when spoken ill against don't retaliate ect. ect. That nature is not the nature of Yahweh.

The problem with most Chisitains, and Jewish Israel today, is they are still serving their understanding of the nature of Jehovah and not the nature of Jesus. It was that mentality that birthed the bloodbaths of wars and the Crusades as well as church splits today. It is a battle I believe we all fight personally. I know no one who has put on the fullness of the stature of the image of Christ....yet.

When Jesus did what He heard/saw His Father say/do He was not listeneing, as a son, to the name El Shaddai or the name Jehovah...but as "a son of El Elyon...the 'most high God'. (Mar 5:7)" El Elyon is the name of the most high God dealing with a creation closing in on its call to maturity.

This is a brief synopsis of a very lengthy teaching and I'm not interested in debating each and every point with those who just want to argue from their POV. I hope you all understand. Just take it for what it's worth to you...be that in the trash, on the shelf, or into a place of meditation.

DR



figmentPez -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (5/3/2008 1:49:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Him4all

Jehovah is the manifested name/nature of the law giver and warring God, and is the God of Israel.


quote:

When Jesus appeared/manifested we were taught to not follow the Law and war but quite the contrary. We were told to love your enemy, turn the cheek, give your cloak, pay your taxes (No Boston tea party), when spoken ill against don't retaliate ect. ect. That nature is not the nature of Yahweh.


If Jesus is not Yahweh, then why is Jesus called LORD in the NT?

You are preaching heresy of the worst sort. The "jesus christ" you are teaching is just an idol, with a demon lurking behind it.



figmentPez -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (5/3/2008 1:51:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: abu_khomar

So you are saying that Jesus is more a....title, than a name?


Without a clear definition of "title" and "name", it would be very hard to answer that question directly. Instead, let me expound on what I've already said.

First, note that "Jesus" in Greek is Iesous, and Jesus Christ isn't the only Iesous in scripture.

Lu 3:29
the son of *Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,

Ac 7:45
"And having received it in their turn, our fathers brought it in with *Joshua upon dispossessing the nations whom God drove out before our fathers, until the time of David."

Col 4:11
and also *Jesus who is called Justus; these are the only fellow workers for the kingdom of God who are from the circumcision; and they have proved to be an encouragement to me.

Heb 4:8
For if *Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.

Even Moses got more exclusivity in his name. I don't think there are any others known by the Hebrew Mosheh or the Greek Moseus (at least not according to the Lexicons at bible.crosswalk.com).

Contrast that with the name of the LORD, which God has declared to be his memorial-name for all generations. YHWH is used of the true God, and only of the true God. Furthermore, Jesus Christ is declared to be the LORD, and declares Himself to be the LORD. (See Heb 1 and Revelation 1 for a couple of examples.)



LBolt -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (5/6/2008 11:40:22 AM)

Hey CurlyQ, Welcome to Crosswalk. Figment gave a really excellent answer. If you want to be technical Jesus is not His name, the Hebrew/ Aramaic would be Yeshua, Yahshua or Y'shua. "In the name of" is better understood as "in the authority of."



Him4all -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (5/6/2008 5:59:33 PM)

Lbolt,


quote:

If you want to be technical Jesus is not His name, the Hebrew/ Aramaic would be Yeshua, Yahshua or Y'shua.


I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but technically wouldn't you agree His name was/is Jesus in English too? I suppose the main point is this...anyone who thinks 'laying on of hands' requires the correct surname...with the correct dialect and the correct 'one' original language, for their prayer to work, will simply be robbed of life because they're following some law concerning pronunciation.

But you are 'right on' when you say that when used as "in the name of" it is talking about the authority/nature of that name.

For example baptizing 'in the name of Jesus Christ' as in Acts 8:12. In that case His proper surname isn't Christ either. It would be more accurate (I think?) to say "Jesus the Christ" as scripture does in Matt 16:20. The same is true of Lord Jesus...Lord isn't a name as much as it is a title, like doctor.

The true name of God isn't a noun as much as it is a verb in creation. The following verses are a perfect example. In them God tells Moses what His name is and it isn't LORD or Jehovah.

EXO 3:13-14 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

BTW, the name of Jesus isn't LORD/Yaweh either...His title was Lord/adonai in the OT.

PSA 110:1 The LORD/Yehovah said unto my Lord/Adonai, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

The all caps word LORD is the tetragrammaton or the 'made up name' given by the Masoretes to the divine name YHWH which had four consonants and no vowels. So the Masoretes just gave it some vowels to pronounce it...so it isn't even the real name God gave, if you really think about it. Strong's say Jehovah is the Jewish national name of God...like I said at the beginning. And none of us is Jewish national after the Sspirit.

DR
DR



CurlyQ19 -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (5/6/2008 9:18:28 PM)

LBolt
quote:

Hey CurlyQ, Welcome to Crosswalk. Figment gave a really excellent answer. If you want to be technical Jesus is not His name, the Hebrew/ Aramaic would be Yeshua, Yahshua or Y'shua. "In the name of" is better understood as "in the authority of."


i have a question than! Why did the apostles/disciples baptize in Jesus name than? according to you the disciples are disobeying, according to you!



ta_mosquito -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (5/6/2008 9:21:07 PM)

They didn't baptize in the transliteration. [;)] They probably spoke Greek or Hebrew, not our version of the name.



CurlyQ19 -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (5/6/2008 9:26:31 PM)

here is a simple question! Were the disciples disobeying Jesus when he said to go and baptize in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost,(Mat 28:19) and they baptized in the name of Jesus? (look up the word baptize in the Hebrew or Greek, one of the two, language according to that verse)



Him4all -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (5/8/2008 3:25:17 PM)

Exo 3:13..What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM:...

I was regretting the past and fearing the future
Suddenly, my Lord was speaking
"My name is I AM"

When you live in the past with its mistakes and regrets,
it is hard. I am not there.
My name is not I Was.

When you live in the future with its problems and fears,
it is hard. I am not there.
My name is not I Will Be.

When you live in the moment,
it is not hard for I am here.
My name is I AM.



figmentPez -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (5/8/2008 6:58:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Him4all

The true name of God isn't a noun as much as it is a verb in creation. The following verses are a perfect example. In them God tells Moses what His name is and it isn't LORD or Jehovah.

EXO 3:13-14 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.


You're not reading far enough.

Exodus 3:15
15God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you ' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations."

Here God tells us that His name is the LORD (YHWH). See, God says of Himself "I AM WHO I AM", but we say of Him that He is the LORD, which can be translated as HE IS. It would be inappropriate for a human to say "I AM WHO I AM", because we are not speaking of ourselves, but we are speaking of God, we say HE IS. God's name most certainly is LORD.

quote:

BTW, the name of Jesus isn't LORD/Yaweh either...His title was Lord/adonai in the OT.

PSA 110:1 The LORD/Yehovah said unto my Lord/Adonai, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.


Once again, your heretical teachings have led you to a false conclusion. If you deny that Jesus Christ is LORD, then you deny that Jesus Christ is God.

Mark, Luke and John echo the words of John the Baptist, who said that Jesus Christ is the LORD, the one that Isaiah prophesied about.

Mark 1:3
THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS,'MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD,MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT.'"

Luke 3:4
as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet," THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS,'MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD,MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT.

John 1:23
He said, "I am A VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS, 'MAKE STRAIGHT THE WAY OF THE LORD,' as Isaiah the prophet said."

Isaiah 40:
3A voice is calling, "Clear the way for the LORD in the wilderness; Make smooth in the desert a highway for our God."

Paul says that Jesus Christ is the LORD:

Romans 15:11-12
11And again, "PRAISE THE LORD ALL YOU GENTILES, AND LET ALL THE PEOPLES PRAISE HIM."
12Again Isaiah says, "THERE SHALL COME THE ROOT OF JESSE, AND HE WHO ARISES TO RULE OVER THE GENTILES, IN HIM SHALL THE GENTILES HOPE."

Psalm 117:1
Praise the LORD, all nations; Laud Him, all peoples!

The author of Hebrews says that the Son is LORD:

Hebrews 1:10
10And, "YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;"

Psalm 102:1,25
1Hear my prayer, O LORD! And let my cry for help come to You.
...
25"Of old You founded the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Jesus Christ Himself says that He is the LORD:

Revelation 1:17-18
17When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

Isaiah 41:4
4"Who has performed and accomplished it, Calling forth the generations from the beginning? 'I, the LORD, am the first, and with the last I am He.'"

Isaiah 44:6
6"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.'"



figmentPez -> RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost (5/8/2008 7:06:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CurlyQ19

here is a simple question! Were the disciples disobeying Jesus when he said to go and baptize in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost,(Mat 28:19) and they baptized in the name of Jesus? (look up the word baptize in the Hebrew or Greek, one of the two, language according to that verse)


You need to realize that when scripture tells us that people were "baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" that scripture is telling the action they took, not necessarily the exact words that were spoken. The apostle's baptized in the authority of Jesus Christ, acting as His proxy. They baptized at His command, asserting that they were doing it as if it were Jesus Christ Himself performing the baptism. (and, indeed, in a spiritual sense, the real baptism is the one that Jesus Christ gives us, baptizing us with the Holy Spirit and fire.) We don't know the words used in performing these baptisms. They might have been done in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek or other langauges. They might have spoken a very proper Hebrew version of Y'shua, or said a more Greek Iesous, or they might have even used LORD, Adonai or even said the God of Abraham, the God of Jacob. They phrasing might have varied, or it might have been the exact same liturgy each time. We simply don't know, because that is not the style that the NT is written in. There are no quotation marks on the original manuscript.



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