Democrats Shattered This Year

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inthysite -> Democrats Shattered This Year (4/23/2008 1:02:21 PM)
Let's face it, in a year which admittedly the Democrats should win the election they are destroying themselves from the inside. Take a look at a few points: 1-Barack, who has positioned himself as the agent of change and continues with his change mantra has shown himself to be no different from any other politician. 2-Barack who was heralded as the messiah of the Democratic party has shown that he cannot win in the major battleground states. 3-Barack, even though outspending Hillary by almost 3-1 cannot put her away and end their primary. 4-Howard Dean, the leader of the Democratic party has shown that he is irrelevant and cannot control his party. 5-Nancy Pilosi continues to speak against Hillary, futher dividing the party rather than uniting. 6-Regardless of blame, Florida and Michigan voters are being disenfranchised by a party who's history is based on so called voter rights, 'every vote should count!" 7-Neither candidate can win the nomination by delegate count so they must resort to the Super Delegate to choose, futher disenfranchising voters. 8-If FL & MI votes are counted then Hillary leads the popular vote. Remember in 2000 when the Democrats claimed Bush was an illegitimate president, that he stole the election because Gore won the popular vote? What happens if Hillary leads the popular vote but the Super Delegates give the nomination to Barack? 9-If Hillary is given the nomination then Barack supporters will feel cheated, that the election was stolen from them, further dividing the party. 10-Both candidates continue to tear each other apart showing how the other is not fit for the presidency. How then can, after the nominee is determined, the other party honestly support them for the presidency? It's one thing to show differences in policy but the are both claiming that the other is not fit to be president. Hillary says Barack is inexperienced and won't know what to do on day one or when the infamous call comes at 3am. Barack continues to challenge Hillary's integrity and honesty. So how could either one support the other without looking like a hypocrite? I don't see any easy way out for the Dems and there are still months to go until the national convention. Look how much damage has been done in the last two months, now imagine what can happen in the next two months as both parties get more desperate. The party leaders want to force the Super Delegates to make a choice now, but that would further disenfranchise voters of the primaries that are left. Man this is ugly!

Jhud -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/23/2008 1:05:28 PM)
quote: Man this is ugly! Au contraire; its beautiful. [;)]

wing2000 -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/23/2008 1:09:11 PM)
...I think some one has been listening to short sighted pundets too long. Six months is an eternity in politics. Unless the Democratics implode at their convention, the Republicans are toast in Novemeber. Two Issues: Economy and the war.

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/23/2008 1:11:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jhud quote: Man this is ugly! Au contraire; its beautiful. [;)] I concur[:D]

Jhud -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/23/2008 1:17:42 PM)
quote: ...I think some one has been listening to short sighted pundets too long. Six months is an eternity in politics. Unless the Democratics implode at their convention, the Republicans are toast in Novemeber. Two Issues: Economy and the war. I actually thought this myself for awhile, but while a Republican would have great difficulty winning this election, Democrats are showing us they are still capable of losing it.

inthysite -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/23/2008 1:38:23 PM)
quote: Two Issues: Economy and the war. The War: A majority of Americans, while they do want us out of Iraq, agree that we cannot just cut and run. They want us to figure out a way to win and leave. They understand that just packing up and quitting will be devastating and will nullify everything the military has worked hard and died for over there. The Economy: You are correct when you say 6 months is a long time. That is two quarters in which anything can happen with the economy. What if we are indeed in just a slow down and things start to improve? Remember, the definition of a recession is 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth. We have not had that yet. Now we may indeed end up in a recession, but we are not now and there is no guarantee that we will be. Look back at a year ago and who would have thought Barack and Hillary would still be fighting it out? Remember, Hillary was 'inevitable". Who would have predicted that McCain would be the Republican nominee? You cannot predict the future my friend. I don't claim to know who will win but right now the Democrats aren't looking too good.

stamper_ben -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/23/2008 1:50:09 PM)
quote: I don't claim to know who will win but right now the Democrats aren't looking too good. Especially with Howard Dean screaming for the Supers to "decide now!"

saved9201 -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/23/2008 10:04:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wing2000 Two Issues: Economy and the war. It would be nice if we actually make Obama, Hillary and McCain focus on those issues and tell us what they're going to do to fix those things, instead of constantly forcing each to explain "gotchas". - Julius

stamper_ben -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/24/2008 2:36:37 PM)
What is the matter with the decision going to the convention? Reid, Pelosi, Dean may intervene in nomination Isn't that the DEMOCRATIC way after all?

wing2000 -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/24/2008 7:43:00 PM)
"Sen. Reid was talking about the possibility of simply sending a letter to superdelegates after the primary process is over to encourage them to make their support known," said Rodell Mollineau, Reid's communications director. Actually, once all the primaries are over (early June), I think the super delegates should stand up and be counted...but I also understand many conservatives here relish an Obama - Clinton knock down at the convention :)

inthysite -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/24/2008 8:33:17 PM)
Granted, in recent elections the nominee was already determined prior to the convention, but that was because the front runner usually reached the number of delegates required prior to that point. But right now neither Democratic candidate has won the nomination and neither one can reach the mandatory 2024. So why not go all the way to the convention, that is what it is for. The Democratic National Convention is a series of presidential nominating conventions held every four years administered by the Democratic National Committee of the United States Democratic Party. Delegates from all fifty U.S. states and from American dependencies and territories such as Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands attend the convention and cast their votes to choose the Party's presidential candidate. Like the Republican National Convention, the Democratic National Convention marks the formal end of the primary election period and the start of the general election season. The primary goal of the Democratic National Convention is to nominate and confirm a candidate for President and Vice President, adopt a comprehensive party platform and unify the party. Democratic National Convention

Leslie_JnJs_mom -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/24/2008 11:11:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jhud quote: Man this is ugly! Au contraire; its beautiful. [;)] [:D] Isn't it though. This is better then the 4th of July. The fireworks are beautiful this time of year.

stamper_ben -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/24/2008 11:21:32 PM)
The main reason Dean and the DNC want the supers to commit now is because of the debacle he made of the Florida and Michigan primaries. He doesn't want to have to have the fight to seat those delegates. That will be extremely painful for the Democrat party. So yes. I relish seeing them tear each other apart after all these years of them trashing the GOP. Besides, we who do for the most part vote Republican can trash ourselves well enough. About time the real face of the Dems comes out.[:D]

iwillfearnoevil -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/25/2008 8:52:23 AM)
not sure how dean screwed up on michigan and florida - should have obviously penalized by half like gop in hindsight. also these democratic primaries don't seem to be weighted enough. i'm not saying you need to do winner take all but one candidate wins by 10 points and only ends up with 52% of the total delegates like hillary in pa. i think it's silly really.

tracydolls -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/25/2008 4:24:39 PM)
The Democrats are getting beat by their own game. It should be winner take all, but the dems want to hold everyones hand and be nice. We're finding out daily that Dems can be everthing they accuse the Repugs of. It's rare for a ougoing group to win another. WE need a change. The Conservative Right Wing Republican Christian Coalition.............did'nt work. It's time for anyone, I don't care who, or what he calls him/her self. Long as they don't claim that. Whatever that was, it did'nt work. NEXT!

kernsfamily -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/25/2008 4:39:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wing2000 ...I think some one has been listening to short sighted pundets too long. Six months is an eternity in politics. Unless the Democratics implode at their convention, the Republicans are toast in Novemeber. Two Issues: Economy and the war. Economy? Well, things were humming along nicely (for the past 6+ years!)....until a few months ago, when the "cycle" was coming to an end....it was only THEN people took notice of the economy....(the democrats didn't DARE take notice of the strong economic growth from 2003-2007....that would mean they would have to acknowledge that something was going right!) Out of the FULL 8 years of bush, 3 or so were economically "not so good", as the first couple dealt with getting over the "double whammy" of Clinton's recession and 9/11......and, then this final year. and, when I mean economically "not so good", that's what I mean....historically, even today, things aren't so bad. I just remember the "lackluster" 1970s....especially 1978-1981...that time in there....THOSE were economically challenging times... I listen to Hillary and Barack, trying to convince me how MISERABLE Iam (libs have to do that to get anyone to vote for them), and know that these past 4-5 years have been immensely prosperous...(and, Iam just an 'average' middle class guy)...along with most everyone i know, work with....I see friends who are business owners....their businesses are booming.... Exactly how will Hillary and barack "FIX" the economy? Tax the "wahoo" out of everyone..they've already promised that, along with all their other socialist policies they want to inflict on us......

davemiller7 -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/25/2008 4:53:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: It's time for anyone, I don't care who, or what he calls him/her self. Long as they don't claim that. Whatever that was, it did'nt work. I can't imagine that you don't care who or what. I sure care!!

bride48 -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/25/2008 5:20:44 PM)
But is the liberal media worried about this implosion? Probably not. Therefore, I doubt that most Democrats know what's going on.

tracydolls -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/25/2008 6:42:49 PM)
quote: and, Iam just an 'average' middle class guy)... Yeah but the poor have gotten poorer, the rich richer, middle income people are losing their houses, paying more for gas, watching their jobs leave by the 1000's, seeing college fees shoot up, food, bills. It don't take a rocket scientist or a liberal to tell me this economy is jacked up!

stamper_ben -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/25/2008 11:45:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: and, Iam just an 'average' middle class guy)... Yeah but the poor have gotten poorer, the rich richer, middle income people are losing their houses, paying more for gas, watching their jobs leave by the 1000's, seeing college fees shoot up, food, bills. It don't take a rocket scientist or a liberal to tell me this economy is jacked up! So Kerns... Hows it feel to be hurting so badly? Need to borrow my tent for the family to sleep in? I got a rubber raft you could use to commute to your job that appears to have moved offshore. I want to help all I can y'know.[;)] Unless you are doing better now. That would make you one of them rich ones.... The ones we need to watch out for![:o]

kernsfamily -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/28/2008 9:18:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stamper_ben quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: and, Iam just an 'average' middle class guy)... Yeah but the poor have gotten poorer, the rich richer, middle income people are losing their houses, paying more for gas, watching their jobs leave by the 1000's, seeing college fees shoot up, food, bills. It don't take a rocket scientist or a liberal to tell me this economy is jacked up! So Kerns... Hows it feel to be hurting so badly? Need to borrow my tent for the family to sleep in? I got a rubber raft you could use to commute to your job that appears to have moved offshore. I want to help all I can y'know.[;)] Unless you are doing better now. That would make you one of them rich ones.... The ones we need to watch out for![:o] My job has moved offshore? Actually, my job CAME from "offshore" (ask anyone who works at BMW in South Carolina, Hyundai in Alabama, Toyota here in Texas, or the jobs my company brought here from France etc..etc...)......the "offshoring" of jobs "issue" is one of the most overblown stories out there. (more jobs are BROUGHT to the U.S. than have ever been "offshored").... Does anyone know the primary cause of the drop in manufacturing jobs in this country? It's not "off shoring"....it's innovation and technology. Manufacturing output here in the U.S. is UP 100% between 1987 and today. http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20080416/COMMENTARY/219315593 Poor gotten Poorer, rich richer? Always have...and always will. (History is full of examples of the "poor" moving UP...upward mobility....today, the phenomenon is called "emerging affluent").... And, there's nothing anyone can do about it (of those socialist presidential candidates will try with their "transfer of wealth" policies in place...and even then, those won't work).... Hmmm....what facts do YOU have on that? Here's what I read a few months ago in Forbes magazine: The middle class isn't disappearing--it's moving up. The Census reports that the share of U.S. households earning $35,000 to $75,000 a year (in '06 dollars)--roughly, the middle class--has indeed shrunk slightly over the last decade, from 34% to 33%. But so, too, has the share earning less than $35,000--from 40% to 37%. It's the share of households earning more than $75,000 that's jumped--from 26% to 30%. --Daniel T. Griswold, Cato Institute... If jobs are leaving by the 1000s, as you mentioned, then WHY is March's unemployment rate at 5.1, with 2007's averaging 4.6? Those are, historically, low numbers for unemployment. Middle income people (and rich, as well, by the way) are losing houses because in some "survey" somewhere it reported that in more than HALF of all mortgage foreclosures, there was fraud on the part of the homeowner...overstating income and that sort of thing....Builders who built "spec" houses are foreclosing on those, as well...as they built a house with the HOPE that by the time it was finished, there would be a buyer. You want a "jacked up" economy? just wait until those marxist liberals get into office.....it don't take a rocket scientist to realize that that is when things will really go downhill.

kernsfamily -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/28/2008 9:54:51 AM)
Along the same discussion, since the 'poor are always getting poorer', as you put it... So, then, any idea what these people are doing now? � "Len" immigrated to U.S. from former Soviet Union 1978 at age 21; arrived penniless. � Youngest of 13 children grew up poor; parents picked cotton, raised entire family in one-bedroom house in Oklahoma. First job: gas station attendant. � Son of poor preacher worked at local 5-and-10 store in high school. � got start in 1955; earned $150 a month. Cash-strapped newlywed lived at mother's Brooklyn home during the week with wife, Joan; finally moved out when Joan was 8 months pregnant. � Bartender's son raised in Illinois housing projects; sold life insurance, worked construction jobs � Dropped out of 8th grade, left home after feuding with father. Sorted potatoes, raised hogs. � Son of Russian immigrants grew up in the Bronx. Became a clerk at a Brooks Brothers store.

tracydolls -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/28/2008 10:34:40 AM)
Housing also has to do with predatory lending, Country Wide, Wacovia are getting sued for it. The poor are gettign poorer. I can say this because I witness it everyday. I don't need some rich man's magazine trying to explain it to me. forbes, LOL. Bill clintons economy was far better than Bush's Go figure.

kernsfamily -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/28/2008 10:49:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls Housing also has to do with predatory lending, Country Wide, Wacovia are getting sued for it. The poor are gettign poorer. I can say this because I witness it everyday. I don't need some rich man's magazine trying to explain it to me. forbes, LOL. Bill clintons economy was far better than Bush's Go figure. Did I say ALL of the foreclosure problem was fraud? no...Iam sure there was some "predatory lending" in there, as well....(this coming from someone who was unemployed for 10 months in 2003-2004, and yet didn't miss one house payment)... well, i witness the very OPPOSITE every day....it's called "emerging affluent".....our church has an entire ministry to help people out with it...young people in their 20s and 30s who are working hard, and earning MUCH MORE than they could have ever dreamed (as they grew up with hardly anything)....and, are now quite successful....there are many "issues" people have to deal with when put into that situation....it's a growing ministry, as more and more people are finding out about the ministry, and are having issues dealing with affluency, when coming from a not-so-affluent background. Forbes? Rich mans magazine? hardly....it's a magazine for business....but, then all business is "evil", right? being successful is "evil"? Sorry to put in a reference to something (like Forbes...people who actually know how the economy runs...and people who know what they are talking about)...do you have ANY FACTUAL evidence to the contrary? that those facts are wrong? If so, I sure would like to know. capitalism is what made, and still makes, this country the greatest on Earth....by far. this coming from someone who was struggling during Clinton's years....Which, Bill Clinton's economy wasn't Bill Clintons....it was run entirely by the Republican Congress...which kept his "tax and spend" tendencies to a minimum.....AND, he was fortunate enough to be in office during the "dot com" boom (which he had NOTHING to do with.....he just got lucky on that one)... You sure sound like someone who lives back in my "old neighborhood" in Detroit....complain, complain, complain about how "bad" things are (even during the best of times), but, unwilling to do anything about it. I could have just stayed back there and been "bitter"....but, no, I left....and, what happened? everyone else, along with me, who DID leave prospered....greatly.....those who didn't are still grumbling, complaining and rotting.... sure, I may not be "rich", but, iam only 40...and doing great at the job I have (as my peak income years are still ahead of me)....but, am much better off than when I was when I was growing up.... OH...you didn't answer my little "quiz" in the last post I had....about what all those poor people are doing....

tracydolls -> RE: Democrats Shattered This Year (4/28/2008 12:03:17 PM)
quote: well, i witness the very OPPOSITE every day....it's called "emerging affluent".....our church has an entire ministry to help people out with it... Is this the gospel of Jesus Christ? quote: people who actually know how the economy runs... then why is the economy in the tank? quote: You sure sound like someone who lives back in my "old neighborhood" in Detroit....complain, complain, complain about how "bad" things are (even during the best of times), but, unwilling to do anything about it. Why telling the truth is considered complaining, I'm not a poor person, I'm pleading for them like the Bible directs you to do. And I do plenty about it, you just don't know me personally to know that. quote: So, then, any idea what these people are doing now? Nope, I don't know them, so I felt I cannot testify to something I don't know.

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