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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/2/2008 9:40:09 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1210
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Who witnesses to the rich?
I think we focus on the material more than the spiritual when we talk about christian charity. We give everything we can to the poor...and often overlook their spiritual needs.....and we don't give anything to the rich...and overlook their spiritual needs.
Rich people need Jesus too. Rich people are no more evil than poor people. Its only in our material orientated society we put importance on being rich or poor.
Scripture only refutes the popular opinion of that day that rich people are rich because they have been blessed by God. That being rich means you are righteous. All the scripture against being rich and against looking down on the poor are in the bible to refute that common held belief system....rich=good....poor=bad.
Money won't save you. Poverty won't save you. Only Jesus saves.
thank you. "Witnessing" and "ministering" to "the rich" is something that many churches feel they can "overlook"....
our church is physically located in what is now a very affluent area. Fortune 500 CEOs...all that sort of thing. It is pretty cool to be reading about a guy one day in Forbes Magazine, then the next day, see him in the nursery area teaching 2-year olds. Or, serving as an usher.
Our church is concerned about ALL people. Regardless of finances. So, yes, we do have "ministries" that are "targeted" a bit more towards those who are "wealthy"/successful. As well as "reaching out" to those who aren't. To those who are poor.
Because of our "affluence" we are able to create ministries that many churches cannot. One example is the eyecare services in low income apartments. Eye doctors/optometrists within our church have a network of several "clinics" in low-income apartment complexes throughout our "inner city". They provide FREE of charge, eye exams, glasses, etc...etc...Meanwhile, the office staff is made up of people from WITHIN that apartment community. So, what happens? People learn JOB SKILLS. Within a year, that person usually goes from working at that clinic at the apartments, and onto a "real" job, usually in a doctor's office/medical office...and, then, OUT of that "low income" apartment community, and into a better apartment situation, or into owning a home........and, of course, all along, people are 'ministered' to, whether they work there, or are simply coming for "free services".
Then, on the other end of the spectrum, we have a ministry targeted to the "emerging affluent" (those who have grown up with "nothing"/being "poor", and find themselves with fast growing incomes, wealth and other financial/business success).....those people have many "issues" to deal with....with regards to "family relations", "old friends", and other factors....and, those are dealt with in "one on one" and group setting discussions, seminars and so-forth....that is probably one of our church's fastest growing ministries.
our outreach to the ENTIRE community (rich, poor, young, old, etc...etc...), is mind boggling.
And, it's all done for one thing: To glorify God by introducing Jesus Christ as Lord to as many people as possible and to develop them in Christian living using the most effective means to impact the world, making a positive difference in this generation.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/2/2008 9:51:07 AM
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Qtman
Posts: 10794
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
no other country in history has the success of "poor" people that America does. none. and no one else is even close.
why does poor people have to be just America? I would say that we have not a had very good success" with the poor, as evidenced by the "war on poverty" you mentioned.
quote:
Because WE can't do anything about "the poor".....the POOR have to have the initiative to seek out opportunities. Those just aren't "handed out"....
Personal experience. My father grew up in poverty in Northeastern West Virginia. Upon barely graduating high school, he left that area, in 1963, and moved to Detroit where he knew he could get a job in an auto factory. (a major exodus of people occured from the end of WWII until the mid/late 1960s from the southern states to Detroit)..... That's where he met my mom, where I was born, etc...etc...and we lived an "ok" lower-middle class life in our very "working class" neighborhood in Detroit. Most of my dad's relatives chose to stay put. (and, whenever we visited, my sisters and I were the "rich city brats")... In the meantime, I went to college and all that, and I am doing even better (financially) than my father did (and my peak earning years are ahead of me)....and, yet, my uncles/cousins and other relatives of my dad's are still there. Waiting for someone to "take care of them". To "provide" for them. Complaining.
And, many back in my "old neighborhood" in Detroit, also has resentment and jealousy....because of what happened with me...as I took the initiative to get out of there....(all i have to do is say my wife is a stay-at-home mom....or, briefly mention in a simple conversation what we did on our last vacation, and the "fireworks" begin!!!!)....
Why does poor people have to be just America? Huh? Poor people exist ONLY in America? Hopefully that's not what you're trying to say.
Thank you Kernsfamily. You said what I wanted to say but was afraid to do so. I also have several examples. I have a cousin who lives in Government housing, collects welfare and food stamps. Nothing against those people on welfare and food stamps who actually need them but my cousin is lazy and won't work. He sits there day in and day out waiting on someone to provide. I went to his home one day and while there counted no less than 4 cell phones, saw a 52 inch flat panel LCD tv and a case of beer. I told him he was not poor he was stupid. You don't spend your money on these things and expect someone else to provide you with the neccessities. There was also a young lady that worked for me we all tried to help. We opened our hearts and wallets to this girl. She had no money for utilities or to take the kids to the doctor. Yet her husban bought new shotguns an rifles at a whim. She even came down one day hoping to borrow $400.00 to take the kids to the dentist driving a new FOrd Explorer they had just bought. Needless to say the flow of money from us ceased. I pulled myself out of poverty with the help of a Gracious God and a loving supportive wife. Anyone can do it if they have the initiative. Shoould I help the needed? YES Should I support the lazy? NO. Even the needy are not entirely on my shoulders.
_____________________________
Everybody has Eternal Life. But only two Addresses to chose from.
Qtman's Musings
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/2/2008 11:04:36 AM
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elastic
Posts: 2781
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: NYC
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another example would be vacation. how many of us have been on a vacation? i have been on serveral. (not lately, but growing up, we went somewhere every year).
was the money spent on vacation necessary? couldn't that have been spent on the poor? is it good stewardship to spend your money on hotel rooms, tourist attractions, and food, only to have memories, weight gain, and possibly photos as the only evidence that you ever went?
i'm all for vacations, but they are not a necessity. should you stay home and give your vacation money to the poor instead?
things to think about. poor people don't really get to go on vacations.
_____________________________
I am always here, unless I am somewhere else.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/2/2008 11:37:36 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1345
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
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quote:
Because WE can't do anything about "the poor".....the POOR have to have the initiative to seek out opportunities. Those just aren't "handed out"....
WE can do what the Bible says about the poor. Give.
quote:
Why does poor people have to be just America? Huh? Poor people exist ONLY in America? Hopefully that's not what you're trying to say
LOL. OK
8 $20,000 is too much. Do you not minister or witness to her, of course, YOU DO. The post on blog? I would've responded back, gently, kindly, with love in that situation. If my Church is promoting the prosperity Gospel, I would get out of it. She is just one member, sounds like some of them are doing it ?OP.
He does not say anywhere give to rich, does He?
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
My granddaughter Niara
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/2/2008 3:44:32 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2533
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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quote:
was the money spent on vacation necessary? couldn't that have been spent on the poor? is it good stewardship to spend your money on hotel rooms, tourist attractions, and food, only to have memories, weight gain, and possibly photos as the only evidence that you ever went?
i'm all for vacations, but they are not a necessity. should you stay home and give your vacation money to the poor instead?
Poor people work in vacation resorts. There are young actors and actresses get their starts at Disney resorts. There are Mexican handcrafters that rely on the tourist trade. There are restaurants that would stop doing business without out of town families needing a place to eat. There are hotel maids that are supporting themselves and their children cleaning up for travelers. So taking a vaction isn't giving to the poor, it is giving folks a chance to earn a living.
_____________________________
bungalow time http://www.car2ner.2ya.com (my blog)http://car2ner.imagekind.com/ (my portfolio)
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/2/2008 4:52:51 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1210
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
quote:
was the money spent on vacation necessary? couldn't that have been spent on the poor? is it good stewardship to spend your money on hotel rooms, tourist attractions, and food, only to have memories, weight gain, and possibly photos as the only evidence that you ever went?
i'm all for vacations, but they are not a necessity. should you stay home and give your vacation money to the poor instead?
Poor people work in vacation resorts. There are young actors and actresses get their starts at Disney resorts. There are Mexican handcrafters that rely on the tourist trade. There are restaurants that would stop doing business without out of town families needing a place to eat. There are hotel maids that are supporting themselves and their children cleaning up for travelers. So taking a vaction isn't giving to the poor, it is giving folks a chance to earn a living.
but, be careful where you choose to vacation at.....lest there be someone out there who judges you for being "materialistic" and "wasteful" with your "overspending".....
it's a vicious circle...
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/3/2008 8:15:40 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1345
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
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quote:
Memaw quote:
1 Timothy 2
9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1 Peter 3
3Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
''Ok I'm trying to understand what this has to do with the rich and giving to the poor''
I just thought abut this. I apologize, alot of people try to use that verse agaisnt ME, when they see avatar. You were saying the woman in OP.
I just remembered the ladies that attend the Churches I have went to. Nice clothes, Beautiful hats, a regular Sunday fashion show. I rememeber as a kid hearing"Look at sister such and such, she got that dress off lawawy or time as they used to call it."
to me that is materalism.
And goes to the above verse. These days, women are in the pulpit with it, preaching it.
I can be sure of one thing, He would not have me defend it.
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
My granddaughter Niara
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/3/2008 8:53:31 AM
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Qtman
Posts: 10794
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Memaw quote:
1 Timothy 2
9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1 Peter 3
3Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
''Ok I'm trying to understand what this has to do with the rich and giving to the poor''
I just thought abut this. I apologize, alot of people try to use that verse agaisnt ME, when they see avatar. You were saying the woman in OP.
I just remembered the ladies that attend the Churches I have went to. Nice clothes, Beautiful hats, a regular Sunday fashion show. I rememeber as a kid hearing"Look at sister such and such, she got that dress off lawawy or time as they used to call it."
to me that is materalism.
And goes to the above verse. These days, women are in the pulpit with it, preaching it.
I can be sure of one thing, He would not have me defend it.
I am not sure what part of that you consider materialism.
I have the top of the line truck from Ford. It has all the bells and whistles on it. I have wanted a truck like it for years but would not buy it because I could not afford it. I found this one, could afford it so I bought it. However it is just a truck. I drive from one place to another in it and if I need to haul some stuff to work in the yard, shop or wood to build something I throw it in the back of the truck and go. Now I do not ride down the road saying look at me in my fine truck. Don't you wish you had one like it instead of that thing you are driving. To me that would be materialism. Owning the truck is not.
I was raised in church and I too have heard comments about how others are dressed. Some were dressed nice and others were not. It goes both ways. What I found is most of those comments are simply gossip born out of envy and jealousy. Not necessarily materialism. Now I will say I at one time refused to go to church on special occasions, like Easter, because it tended to lean toward a fashion show. You had people show up that never went to church and seemed to be just showing off their new clothes. If that was in fact the case I think it could be classified as materialism. I have to dress nice for my job. I have to wear a suit and tie every day. Are these suits and ties materialism. Not to me. To me they are just work clothes the same as coveralls worn by e mechanic. hope this rambling has made sense.
_____________________________
Everybody has Eternal Life. But only two Addresses to chose from.
Qtman's Musings
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/3/2008 8:55:27 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2533
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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Ah, the sunday fashion show.... that is another issue all together. I had someone amazed that I go to church in jeans (on our motorcycle). They felt that a woman should always wear a skirt, although they never pushed the issue on others.
There are those who go to meetings to show off. It has been that way since Jesus walked about, and before. I guess that is why the Puritans had such ridged rules. They were trying to create humility and cut down materialism but rule keeping. What we remember most about them is the rule keeping. It is a shame. I am sure that there were many fine people that should be remembered but it is the failure of the strict rule keeping that stands out.
_____________________________
bungalow time http://www.car2ner.2ya.com (my blog)http://car2ner.imagekind.com/ (my portfolio)
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/3/2008 11:52:34 AM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 5930
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
I just remembered the ladies that attend the Churches I have went to. Nice clothes, Beautiful hats, a regular Sunday fashion show. I rememeber as a kid hearing"Look at sister such and such, she got that dress off lawawy or time as they used to call it."
Ahhh yes...the poor man's budgeting. I'm still not sure what that has to do with being materialistic.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/3/2008 1:47:49 PM
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map4
Posts: 80
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
I just remembered the ladies that attend the Churches I have went to. Nice clothes, Beautiful hats, a regular Sunday fashion show. I rememeber as a kid hearing"Look at sister such and such, she got that dress off lawawy or time as they used to call it."
Ahhh yes...the poor man's budgeting. I'm still not sure what that has to do with being materialistic.
Nothing.
I grew up poor and this was the only way my parents could get the five of us kids a few Christmas gifts.
We were definately not materialistic.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/3/2008 2:03:16 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1345
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
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quote:
Ahhh yes...the poor man's budgeting. I'm still not sure what that has to do with being materialistic.
I was trying to show where EVERY sunday it is a fashion show, not how they paid. That was in a Church when I was a kid. they tried to outdo each other with the elaborate hats, etc.
I also have attended a Church where you must have the "Millionaire Mentality" HUH?
Materalism I have seen among the poor especially in this country, and I realize that the poor here are not the poor in other countries.
this culture is materalistic, it is hard to get away from, but if Believers uphold it, how do we get rid of it? I guess would be my ?
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
My granddaughter Niara
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/4/2008 8:28:32 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3617
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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Jeans...but what kind of jeans?
Most people wear jeans to my church...but I bet most of those jeans cost more than my suit does.
Its just one of those things that to me should be ignored. Yes, women dress for effect in my church. Yes some dress to be seen in the latest fashions...its a very affluent church with many new members and seekers.
The parking lot....I'll bet my car is one of the few that isn't washed before it goes to church. Its probably one of the oldest too....a....gasp....2000.
I don't have a glamour job. I don't have a glamour house. I don't seek to have a bible study class so I can entertain my christian brothers and sisters in my castle. I know no celebrities. I haven't vacationed in europe or go on the ski trip to Aspen. I don't know what it is to spend a thousand dollars in a restaraunt. I have...one suit. Half a closet of clothes...including my work uniforms. Two pair of sneakers, one an old one for work. two dress shoes and a pair of sandals.
We have one car. My house is a mess and we have no housekeeper.
I have little economically in common with my brethern....
and it does not matter. I don't have a problem with their possessions and they don't have a problem with my lack thereof. It doesn't come up.
It is not gossiped about.
It is not gossiped about.
It is not gossiped about.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/5/2008 12:06:11 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1345
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
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quote:
It is not gossiped about.
It is not gossiped about.
It is not gossiped about.
Is it gossip if a person posts on a blog? Their business, no one asked about it.
Is it gossip if a Christian comes to a blog and asks"is this Christian?, what do you think? about materalism?"
 Not to me, it ain't.
What is strange to me is the upholding of materalism! 
but then I think of Slavery:
the upholding of it. Only about 20% were actual slaveowners. but how could this be? 200+ years of slavery. Their supporters. that's how.
W.E.B DuBois called them the "unwashed masses"
The slaveowners were even able to pay people to fight in the Civil War, even a GREAT General like Robert F. Lee who did not support slavery , fought in the War as a supporter upholding slavery and it's masters..
He just picked the wrong side.
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
It is a loss to the Church to have people spending $ on junk like that. And upholding it.
We should study and show ourselves approved, there ain't NO WHERE in the Bible that says it's ok to buy that junk.
We also should gently exhort our brothers and sisters in Christ.
So I gently and quietly tell you.
8 $20,000 purses are not from G-D. I show these verses to you
Isa 56:11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
< Message edited by tracydolls -- 5/5/2008 12:16:20 AM >
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
My granddaughter Niara
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/5/2008 2:03:06 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3617
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
I just remembered the ladies that attend the Churches I have went to. Nice clothes, Beautiful hats, a regular Sunday fashion show. I rememeber as a kid hearing"Look at sister such and such, she got that dress off lawawy or time as they used to call it."
gossip
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/5/2008 3:00:11 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1345
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
Status: offline
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quote:
Most people wear jeans to my church...but I bet most of those jeans cost more than my suit does.
Its just one of those things that to me should be ignored. Yes, women dress for effect in my church. Yes some dress to be seen in the latest fashions...its a very affluent church with many new members and seekers.
this could be gossip and it looks like materalism, and a Church that Jesus would beat the "moneychangers" out of. how are they "helping " the affluent, selling them books, and WWJD bracelets, inside the Church?
quote:
I don't have a glamour job. I don't have a glamour house. I don't seek to have a bible study class so I can entertain my christian brothers and sisters in my castle. I know no celebrities. I haven't vacationed in europe or go on the ski trip to Aspen. I don't know what it is to spend a thousand dollars in a restaraunt. I have...one suit. Half a closet of clothes...including my work uniforms. Two pair of sneakers, one an old one for work. two dress shoes and a pair of sandals.
this looks like average american
quote:
We have one car. My house is a mess and we have no housekeeper.
I have little economically in common with my brethern....
sounds like me, shoot....
quote:
and it does not matter. I don't have a problem with their possessions and they don't have a problem with my lack thereof. It doesn't come up.
in this day and age, money does not come up? You do not show verses about rich and poor in the Bible, or share verses about it. 100's of verses, ya'll just skip over them, they never come up in a sermon for discussion, no one asks about it?
OK
It could be miscrewed as "Ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ" or someone that does not study the Bible and therefore does not know what Jesus says, is not seeking Him, studying and showing thyselves approved. Or the actual rich Jesus is talking about in the Bible who don't want to discuss the verses.
or An upholder. the "unwashed masses"
Me I call telling a story from childhood, SHARING MY TESTIMONY.
< Message edited by tracydolls -- 5/5/2008 3:22:36 AM >
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
My granddaughter Niara
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/5/2008 3:21:10 AM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2720
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Sunflower State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
I just remembered the ladies that attend the Churches I have went to. Nice clothes, Beautiful hats, a regular Sunday fashion show. I rememeber as a kid hearing"Look at sister such and such, she got that dress off lawawy or time as they used to call it."
gossip
Son,
I think you are misunderstanding Tracys' post.
She is referencing and making an observation on what this passage means.
1 Timothy 2
9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1 Peter 3
3Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
Tracydolls said:
quote:
I just remembered the ladies that attend the Churches I have went to. Nice clothes, Beautiful hats, a regular Sunday fashion show. I rememeber as a kid hearing"Look at sister such and such, she got that dress off lawawy or time as they used to call it."
to me that is materalism.
And goes to the above verse. These days, women are in the pulpit with it, preaching it.
I can be sure of one thing, He would not have me defend it.
_____________________________
~Kimmie
Courtesy is free. Quote from Jalanda
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/5/2008 7:34:21 AM
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10SNE1?
Posts: 197
Joined: 4/19/2005
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Is the actual topic of this thread " how much is too much?" or is it how to react to a person who seems to be getting her worth from possessions?
How much is too much? I'm not touching that one, it is all relative. And I think we all know that. Would the young mother in Sub-Sahara Africa dying of HIV while she watches her children starve understand spending $20.00 on a "handbag" from Wal-Mart?
However, it does sadden me that we can have eight pages of posts on this topic and not one person suggest that the only "Christian" response to those who seem to be caught up in materialism is love and mercy.
"Judging" happens when we stand to the side and throw stones. The love of Christ is displayed when we take the time to get to know someone/build a relationship with them. If the OP, had taken the time to befriend this woman she might now know if she really need to be "confronted in love" or she needed to be introduced to the love of Christ in which she could find her worth, instead of in meaningless possessions.
Just for the record, I have lots of shoes, handbags and "stuff" and while I understand that all of us in America are "rich"by the world's standards, I fully admit that my dh and I are wealthy by American standards.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/5/2008 10:08:38 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2173
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
The most extreme I have come across is one lady who has 8 $20,000 bags of a certain brand. The 8 bags are the same style, but in different colours. It kinda reminds me of Imelda Marcos and her shoe obsession! These ladies are normal working ladies.
"Normal Working ladies"
One lady has 8 bags - 8 times $20,000.00 equals $160,000.00
I believe the information given in the OP is incorrect.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/5/2008 10:28:01 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3617
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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quote:
this could be gossip and it looks like materalism,
Its neither, unless my telling it here is gossip because this is a personal observation, not something I would say to anyone or that I have heard from someone.
quote:
in this day and age, money does not come up?
Does money come up in my rather affluent church? Well...maybe. I think most of the people I attend church with don't live like I do and therefor don't have my experiences. Some of that is good and some of it isn't but I think that happens in every group.
Do my brethern talk about money? No or I should say 99% of the time they don't and when they do its not bragging. Its just...their lifestyle. We talk about paying the light bill and they talk about retiring to the beach house....its kinda the same.
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You do not show verses about rich and poor in the Bible, or share verses about it. 100's of verses, ya'll just skip over them, they never come up in a sermon for discussion, no one asks about it?
My church doesn't preach on money much...if at all. There are no plates passed. In fact you have to know how to give, to give. However, my church is very generous...or some in it are. You can't have a 12 million dollar building with a 15 million one on its way without people giving a lot of money.
There are no verses in the bible that says having money is evil. There are verses in the bible saying worshipping your moeny is. There are verses in the bible that say having money is distracting to your walk...if you let it. There are verses in the bible that say the rich should treat their slaves ( employees today ) well.
There are many examples of rich holy men in the bible. Riches given to them by God. Would God give his holy people money if it was a sin? I don't think so.
As much as there is a prosperity gospel out there, there is a poverty gospel as well. Neither are 100% true. Money won't save you or keep you saved or cause you to lose your salvation. Money is a tool, like evferything else God has given us and we have the free will to abuse it...or not.
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I think you are misunderstanding Tracys' post.
She is referencing and making an observation on what this passage means.
This is gossip....
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I rememeber as a kid hearing"Look at sister such and such, she got that dress off lawawy or time as they used to call it."
I am not saying tracey gossiped. I am saying talking about someone buying clothes on layaway, is gossip. It shouldn't be anyone's business and it certainly wasn't edifying.
I wouldn't like to think my brethern at church sit around talking about my old car and poor clothes....would you?
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/5/2008 12:10:03 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5063
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
Status: offline
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quote:
"Normal Working ladies"
One lady has 8 bags - 8 times $20,000.00 equals $160,000.00
I believe the information given in the OP is incorrect.
I agree with you. Normal people don't have that kind of money. (And, like I said, they shop at Walmart!) 
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/5/2008 12:15:19 PM
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