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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/13/2008 2:47:09 AM
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BibleL7
Posts: 438
Joined: 2/1/2008
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This thread seems to have gotten a little off topic me thinks. However I will say that the same error is being made in the current topic as is done by those that claim to be churches and teach not the full Gospel. Taking a few verses out of the Bible and making them as the only thing instead of taking all the Bible in context. To say that preachers being paid is not Biblical because Paul worked leaves out that Paul said a workman is worthy of his hire and that he (Paul) was entitled to be paid by the church but did not ask it. As to the not being Biblical to have one person preach and teach the congregation an example was given of it plus Paul also said that leaders were given for the equipping of the saints to do the work of ministry. And if you read the passage in context it does not say that all had to prophesy or speak or that it was the only way a church should have a meeting it was mearly giving an example of which gift overflowing was better.
It is just as improper to take those passages by themselves as it is to take only those passages which speak of love and leave out judgement of God. This is what many so-called churches are doing is leaving out the whole of the Word. Which as was previously stated is a matter of another gospel which is not a gospel at all which Paul clearly says let those teachers be accursed. The Scriptures should be taught in their entirety and in context.
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/14/2008 1:05:20 AM
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gmc4Jesus
Posts: 172
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bcredwagon
I've been concerned lately about what I perceive as a watered-down gospel being taught to us by not only nationally recognized ministers, but our own local pastors too.
It began with "Seeker Churches". The concept was to make church as comfortable and easy-going as possible so people attending wouldn't feel threatened or uneasy by church. The music was upbeat and contemporary and people were encouraged to "come as you are". The problem with these churches, one of which I used to belong to, was the salvation message was lacking and I rarely saw anyone get saved. The message of us being sinners and Christ dying on the cross for our sins was missing. Never once did I hear that if we didn't repent of our sins and turn from them would we go to hell when we died. To me, that's the main purpose of church, to get people saved.
Instead, all I heard were messages about how much God loves us and if we live a good life, all will be ok. These messages make you feel good, but where's the message of the gospel? Yes, God loves us, but all will not be ok unless we recognize and admit we are sinners and ask Jesus to forgive us and save us. A church might be growing and bringing in a lot of members, but what good is it if those members die in their sins and spend an eternity apart from God?
One of the largest churches in America preaches this watered-down message and my heart goes out to all of those who attend this church and never hear the main thrust of God's word preached. Everyone leaves the church happy and content, but not challenged to ask God for forgiveness. They believe they are already living a life pleasing to God.
Am I the only one who feels this way? If I'm wrong, please let me know so I can sleep better at night. The souls of millions of americans cry out to me.
BC,
This is a very challenging question. I will add some thoughts for consideration.
I was born and raised going to church. I also spent over 15 years in preaching ministry during the 70's, 80's to 1990. Much of my ministry would be defined today as traditional, evangelical, Bible teaching.
Having said that, my wife and I are currently attending a "seeker sensitive" church. We got involved because we agreed with the Senior Pastor's goals - to reach the unchurched and bring them to Christ. Although there are somethings that I don't particularly care for, we are still involved. We do not attend to get fed, but to feed others by our example. I like to teach when I get the opportunity and am considered a person who can teach the newer members a lot about the Bible and spiritual maturity.
The sermons at this church are generally topical. They are Bible based and I haven't heard one yet that I felt compromised the truth of Scriptural. While the SONday morning worship service is "watered down", there are other areas of church life where individuals have the opportunity to grow to spiritual maturity.
1. This church is reaching people who wouldn't feel comfortable in many other churches.
2. Those who want to grow to maturity are presented with several paths to do so.
3. Although I don't agree with everything the way they do it, I'm here to serve God and bring others to maturity, not force the church to conform to my way of doing things.
4. We are people getting saved. I can't say if the percentages are more than any other church or not.
Bottom line, I would prefer a church that was not so "seeker sensitive", but I do understand the senior pastor's vision. I have seen enough to believe that he will accomplish his goal and I believe I can contribute to the spiritual growth of the church.
Although most of the people on this thread will not agree with the "seeker sensitive" philosophy and it has been proven to be no more actually effective than other methods, I think it is far better not to criticize God's annointed and see how we are called to build up the family of God.
Like it or not, people are being led to a sincere relationship with Christ and many do grow to spiritual maturity, even though the church is seeker sensitive.
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/15/2008 10:43:33 PM
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hysterman
Posts: 3
Joined: 5/15/2008
Status: offline
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Only time will tell if your seeker sensitive church is actually doing good. Time passing and watching those who have come to be saved and continue in fellowship with JESUS, walking in HIS footsteps is the acid test. To me it's like what they call christian rock music, play it because the kids will listen to it and it has the correct message. The ends do not justify the means. Who can tell the difference between the two kinds unless they hear some words. Christians are called to be set apart, conformed to the image of the SON, not conformed to the image of the world.Correctness, that is to say, biblical truth must be adhered to. Now, I am not overly fond of the hell fire and brimstone preaching method myself but I do believe in preaching sound doctrine. JESUS CHRIST was born of the virgin, lived a sinless life, died on a cross, was buried and rose on the third day bodily, then ascended into heaven to prepare a place for those who trust in HIM. I also believe in a literal six day creation, a requirement for JESUS' death to pay for our sins. Any other belief allows for death and destruction to appear before Adam sinned in the garden making it impossible for the penalty to be paid for by JESUS, and thereby making HIS death uselessand unneccessary, because death and sin and evil were present in the world before man sinned. Absolute biblical truth must always take precedent over what one wants to hear. A watered down gospel brings watered down christians. One should never compromise the word of the living and true GOD.
_____________________________
If you meet me and forget me, you have lost nothing. If you meet JESUS and forget HIM, you have lost everything.
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/16/2008 7:04:03 AM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 635
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
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quote:
Absolute biblical truth must always take precedent over what one wants to hear. A watered down gospel brings watered down christians. One should never compromise the word of the living and true GOD.
And, here's another vote for home schooling!
_____________________________
Tutto posso in colui che me da la forza! (Fil. 4:13)
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/16/2008 1:31:52 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2196
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
. We are people getting saved. I can't say if the percentages are more than any other church or not.
In my church's womens prison ministry most of the women we encounter have been through a "salvation experience" but have never been discipled. They were never taught to die to self or pick up their crosses and follow him. The "gospel" they were taught is a self-needs gospel instead of a Christ-centered gospel.
_____________________________
The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/17/2008 5:24:21 AM
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Annie64
Posts: 547
Joined: 6/4/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hysterman
To me it's like what they call christian rock music, play it because the kids will listen to it and it has the correct message. The ends do not justify the means. Who can tell the difference between the two kinds unless they hear some words. Christians are called to be set apart, conformed to the image of the SON, not conformed to the image of the world.
I really like Christian rock music, and don't see it as conforming to the world, as long as the message is kept intact, which I believe it is in many cases. I see it as part of "becoming all things to all men" in order to save as many as possible. I do see the comparison between it and seeker sensitive churches, though. And in theory, seeker sensitive churches are a great idea, and the same is true of them. The problem is that in reality, the seeker sensitive movement has to a large extent gotten carried away with itself and left out or watered down parts of the Gospel that are less popular or easy to hear. I don't think all of the seeker sensitive movement has done that, however. Surely there are churches out there that are doing there best to be relevant in the culture in which we are living now and to speak a language the people in it understand without compromising the Gospel. I was glad to read gmc4Jesus' post saying that he was part of a seeker-sensitive church and he believed there were people truly being saved there.
_____________________________
On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/17/2008 7:40:18 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1105
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: offline
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Jesus said, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation"(Mark 16:15). He did NOT say go into all the church and preach the gospel. I believe the church service should be geared to encouraging and edifying Christians to "go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation." I believe the "seeker sensitive" model of church service is not Biblical. However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a call to salvation in the church service, because, even though it should be geared toward Christians, you never know when unbelievers might come in.
But I don't think the worship service of a church should be its primary means of reaching the lost. The lost should be reached by the membership of the church and after the lost are saved, THEN they are brought to church to be encouraged and edified in their Christian walk. That doesn't mean, of course, that people can't get saved in a worship service, but I don't think that should be the norm. Unfortunately in our day and age it pretty much is. If we want to get somebody saved we take 'em to church. Wrong approach, I believe. But, hey, that's just me. 
_____________________________
greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/17/2008 12:58:43 PM
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abraxas
Posts: 143
Joined: 4/8/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bcredwagon
I've been concerned lately about what I perceive as a watered-down gospel being taught to us by not only nationally recognized ministers, but our own local pastors too.
It began with "Seeker Churches". The concept was to make church as comfortable and easy-going as possible so people attending wouldn't feel threatened or uneasy by church. The music was upbeat and contemporary and people were encouraged to "come as you are". The problem with these churches, one of which I used to belong to, was the salvation message was lacking and I rarely saw anyone get saved. The message of us being sinners and Christ dying on the cross for our sins was missing. Never once did I hear that if we didn't repent of our sins and turn from them would we go to hell when we died. To me, that's the main purpose of church, to get people saved.
Instead, all I heard were messages about how much God loves us and if we live a good life, all will be ok. These messages make you feel good, but where's the message of the gospel? Yes, God loves us, but all will not be ok unless we recognize and admit we are sinners and ask Jesus to forgive us and save us. A church might be growing and bringing in a lot of members, but what good is it if those members die in their sins and spend an eternity apart from God?
One of the largest churches in America preaches this watered-down message and my heart goes out to all of those who attend this church and never hear the main thrust of God's word preached. Everyone leaves the church happy and content, but not challenged to ask God for forgiveness. They believe they are already living a life pleasing to God.
Am I the only one who feels this way? If I'm wrong, please let me know so I can sleep better at night. The souls of millions of americans cry out to me.
I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I hope that this is the direction that Christianity takes.
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/19/2008 4:37:35 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1277
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
To me , a partial gospel is a FALSE gospel
Amen...
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/20/2008 9:53:12 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1134
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
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quote:
The music was upbeat and contemporary and people were encouraged to "come as you are".
again...this is described as somehow being 'wrong'??? Is there something wrong with having music that doesn't sound like a funeral?
to "allow" people to "come as they are", without worrying about something superficial as how they are dressed?
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/21/2008 10:46:51 AM
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faithfulservant_
Posts: 319
Joined: 3/6/2008
Status: offline
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If your on the pulpit and preaching the "God is Love" gospel, then you better also be preaching the "God is Just" gospel. My pastor for example, he talks about the "Love of God" and the "Wrath of God." My pastor is not afraid to talk about the "Fire and Brimestone" version of the gospel.
< Message edited by faithfulservant_ -- 5/21/2008 5:11:58 PM >
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/21/2008 11:25:26 AM
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notmycity
Posts: 1277
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faithfulservant_
If your on the pulpit and preaching the "God is Love" gospel, then you better also be preaching the "God is Just" gospel. My pastor for example, he talks about the "Love of God" and the "Judgement of God." My pastor is not afraid to talk about the "Fire and Brimestone" version of the gospel. My pastor will talk about the judgement of God, again and again......that is why I love my church because we don't preach the half-hearted gospel.
And God’s wrath. Dozens of times in the NT we read of God’s wrath for those who do not believe.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/25/2008 1:04:05 AM
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Godddy
Posts: 54
Joined: 5/15/2008
Status: offline
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Just resently I started reading a book, from Grant Jeffery's, on .
"The Signiture Of God", I am sure many have heard of him,
In his book he said that [the Sociologist Jeffery Hadden] completed a survey of the beliefs of ten thousand ministers in May 1982, [as reported in a magazine published by Christ For The nations.]
In response to these questions, ten thousand mainline pastors answered. as followed:
1Was Jesus born of a virgin? 50% of the ministers said "NO"
2. Was Jesus the Son of God? over 80 % said "NO"
3. Is the bible Inspired by God? 80% said "NO"
4. Do you believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus? 36% said "NO"
I have talked to people who believe in God, but not the Bible, I am at a lost for words to understand how did we as nations, "In Canada, and the United States," that were made great because, of God, do away with His word. When did this happen.
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/26/2008 12:04:26 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2196
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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quote:
Dress codes and good biblical Gospel are not dependent on each other.
Look at the churches of the Prosperity Pimps. Their preachers wear suits that are hand made and cost several thousand dollars.
_____________________________
The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: Watered-Down Gospel - 5/30/2008 8:51:38 PM
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Tomb
Posts: 270
Joined: 8/31/2007
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Hi everyone. I hope each of you will check out this site.
http://missionprinting.us/mp_newindex.html
CLICK ON PUBLICATIONS
(Act 17:11) (John 5:39)
_____________________________
missionprinting.us - - click on publications
gospelpreceptor.com
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