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RE: THE US IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/26/2008 4:36:57 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2168
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
Again, we can blame the coporate entity we call the church, but it still comes down to each of us as individuals to seek God and have him be the filter through which we view the world.
Agreed....but individuals need to be taught this truth. It doesn't come from osmosis, Just as Jesus discipled his followers. we must have those who disciple us, so we can disciple others, who.....
_____________________________
The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: THE US IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/26/2008 4:43:40 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1069
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quote:
Agreed....but individuals need to be taught this truth. It doesn't come from osmosis, Just as Jesus discipled his followers. we must have those who disciple us, so we can disciple others, who.....
Which is the point of my previous post. As a corporate entity it seems that we have programmed discipleship and gotten away from Christ's model.
_____________________________
You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
A. Lincoln
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RE: THE US IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/26/2008 6:20:33 PM
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Walker311
Posts: 1861
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If God does not have the hearts and minds of men, then what do they have to draw on as right and wrong? There is no moral compass. 20 years ago I desperately needed a job and went to work for a car dealership. The very first sales meeting was filled with threats and vile language. My heart ached. I eventually was fired as well as others and this dealership went under within the year.
I have no doubt that if the management of this dealership were guided by Godly principles, they would have been successful. Now, I did not say that if they had been "Christians" they would have succeeded but if they at least treated others rightfully and morally, things could have been different.
There are principles that God set forth with the of creation of man. Not everyone will follow God but many will follow moral truths and this is where American politicians and leaders have failed.
A morally lacking man of power and/or wealth will ultimately be inept and do great harm.
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RE: THE US IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/26/2008 7:53:02 PM
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Ignited-Faith
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"And don’t be concerned about what to eat and what to drink. Don’t worry about such things. These things dominate the thoughts of unbelievers all over the world, but your Father already knows your needs. Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and he will give you everything you need.
"So don’t be afraid, little flock. For it gives your Father great happiness to give you the Kingdom.
"Sell your possessions and give to those in need. This will store up treasure for you in heaven! And the purses of heaven never get old or develop holes. Your treasure will be safe; no thief can steal it and no moth can destroy it. Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be."
Luke 12:29-34
< Message edited by Ignited-Faith -- 4/26/2008 7:59:05 PM >
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RE: THE US IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/26/2008 8:55:04 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1069
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Walker, for the past 20 years I have been working directly with people. Trying to help them bring about behavioral change. I recently left a job for several reasons. Yes, I was burned out. What I came to realize after leaving was that many of the "professions" designed to help people, to facilitate change, to improve lives, etc., are more about the bottom dollar than they are about actually helping people. As a PO, I had a caseload of over 400 people. I had no idea who was on my caseload, let alone time to help the ones I knew. All I did was sit in my office and generate paper for the court to say that someone had completed conditions, violated conditions, or that their case had expired. It was about producing paper to make it look like we were helping people so that we could show the politicians that we were doing something measurable so we could secure more funding.
Sadly, I fear our churches are becoming like the world. We develop all these ministry programs to meet needs, but in the process we fail to develop discipling relationships and tie head knowledge to the heart. We have come to give recipients what they want: a handout and no interference in their lives. All too often it seems the pew warmers are the loudest fans in the cheering section. They will willingly pay the cost by writing a check. But, when it comes ot participation, they'd rather watch the game on TV.
_____________________________
You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
A. Lincoln
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RE: THE US IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/26/2008 9:09:23 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3665
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From: my mom by God
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If anything this thread has pointed out one thing.
We are all afraid.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: THE US IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/26/2008 9:14:36 PM
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Walker311
Posts: 1861
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Zamdad,
I often try to think of topics to bring attention to things that I believe that I and others should pay more attention to. You often bring very good examples to these topics that highlight exactly what I'm getting at.
I hope everyone reads you. I know God has the "whole world in His hands" but the world does not give a flip about what they are doing to the world(THE PEOPLE) and they prove it by their behavior. We need to be aware and change what we can.
quote:
...are more about the bottom dollar than they are about actually helping people.
....Sadly, I fear our churches are becoming like the world. We develop all these ministry programs to meet needs, but in the process we fail to develop discipling relationships and tie head knowledge to the heart. We have come to give recipients what they want: a handout and no interference in their lives.
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RE: THE US IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/26/2008 10:05:12 PM
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Walker311
Posts: 1861
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
rural route from your OP
Kat,
I have no idea what you mean. We(zdad) as well as others have expressed what we believe are part of the problems here in the U.S. I do not see why that is so hard to understand.
< Message edited by Walker311 -- 4/26/2008 10:22:40 PM >
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RE: THE US IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/26/2008 11:27:33 PM
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Walker311
Posts: 1861
Joined: 4/11/2005
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kat,
ok... would you please delete post #35 as well. Thanks!
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RE: THE US IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/27/2008 12:41:33 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1069
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Walker311
kat,
ok... would you please delete post #35 as well. Thanks!
Done
_____________________________
You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
A. Lincoln
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RE: THE U.S. IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/27/2008 3:12:18 AM
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SinnerSaved
Posts: 269
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Belfast, N. Ireland
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I live in the United Kingdom, but "when the USA sneezes we catch a cold." In a cultural sense, everything that happens in your nation happens in ours a year on two later. In some instances, especially economically speaking, the time lag is shortened, and of course in other areas (foreign policy, military affairs etc) the effects of your actions are immediate to us.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Walker311
So, what are some things going on in this nation that has gotten your attention?
Where to start? I'll just focus on 3 areas close to my heart, although there are so many others...
1. We have a credit crunch here which is adversely affecting our lives. Retail food prices have risen dramatically, house prices have fallen dramatically. Our youngsters cannot get mortgages, whilst many existing homeowners cannot afford the ones they have. Why? Because the US had the same thing last year. Why? Because greedy companies or individuals there were selling mortgages to people THEY KNEW could not afford them, then packaging (hiding) the loans up with other more acceptable loans and selling them on to other companies/indviduals. This practice permeated our nation too, and the extent of these bad loans is now coming to light. Our banks and building societies have virtually stopped lending. The effects on peoples daily lives are heartbreaking.
2. We are losing too many young soldiers who are fighting a pointless war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why? Because we followed the lead of what we thought was our closest ally - the US. I am 53 and have served my country in our military since 1972, so please no-one accuse me of being anti-military! The last time I was in the USA (New York) was for 1 week in Feb 2003. I listened to your radio daily as people phoned in to a talk show saying how the US did not need the UK, France or any other European nation to help them invade Iraq to remove Saddam. The talk was so jingoistic and insular, I was appalled. Furthermore, because France had the temerity to disagree with the USA and the UK, you even renamed your french fries to freedom fries and removed French Dressing from the choices available in restaurants!
3. As I have already said, on the cultural front whatever happens in the US happens here a year or two later. Money is worshipped. Gossip magazines and TV programmes abound. Violent games like Grand Theft Auto are being sold to our children. Films glorifying violence and secular values are being distributed to the world. We now have an appalling number of abortions. Christian values are ridiculed and ignored by the government. I could go on, but you know the rest anyway...
quote:
ORIGINAL: Walker311
Do you believe that there are darker days ahead or nothing to worry about?
In your opinion, what do you believe is our Nation's biggest problem and what do you believe is the remedy?
With respect, I believe that your nations biggest problem is your leadership. Do you not realise that the leader of the US is the leader of the free world? If you do, then why is that leadership so lacking? Why does it ride roughshod over the feelings of the people it is meant to lead? (for example the Kyoto Agreement).
In June 2003, George Bush said to Abu Mazen, the Palestinian Prime Minister 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"
There are darker days ahead unless we get better leadership within and from the US.
_____________________________
"No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
John Donne
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RE: THE U.S. IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/27/2008 4:40:51 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3665
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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Does anyone remember the 70's?
Economic recession. Gas lines. Pollution. Nuclear threat. Biological weapon threat. Vietnam. Double digit inflation. Watergate. In my area the unemployment could get as high as 14%. Disastor movies and green peace rallies and doom and gloom all overt the place.
It makes the worries of today look like spoiled children worrying about nothing.
How many soldiers died daily during ww1? ww2? Civil war?
I seem to remember hearing something about a cold that killed a huge number of people in the past?
A flood in China killed two million people.
The holocaust is only one atrocity commited in the twentieth century. There are many more.
If you want doom and gloom you can...always....find it. Its a fallen place. It will never be a good place.....until its reformed.
I think there are other countries in worse shape than the USA. Going into places like Iraq and Afghanistan proves that. Most people would consider the USA a paradise.
Spiritually? Ok, name me a spiritual paradise on earth. Some country where God lives? Some country God has blessed because of its people's belief?
Just one will do.
< Message edited by SonInMe1 -- 4/27/2008 4:47:33 AM >
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: THE U.S. IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/27/2008 9:22:33 AM
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Walker311
Posts: 1861
Joined: 4/11/2005
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SonInme1 said:
I think there are other countries in worse shape than the USA.
Oh, but we have some things that other countries do not have. Here are a few.
These countries do not have major illegal drug problems even if THEY produce and ship it. Their drugs are in America.
We have an abundance of abortion. No other country in the world kills as many babies.
We have a flood of illegal immigration that cannot be controlled. Why would they want to come here? We are OUTSOURCing to other countries and these people want to come here and so we are looking at a major number of people that will not have jobs due to immigrants taking them and the U.S. sending jobs overseas.
We have greedy lawyers... need I say more?
We have a major breakdown in the family unit. No longer is it mom and dad. It is mom only... or 2 dads or 2 moms... thanks to homosexuality. Take your pick!
There is much more!
__________________________
Though we have a rich history of what seemed to be doom and gloom, those times were not filled with the abundance of what I just mentioned and you cannot continue to blatantly oppose God and expect to overcome the bad times.
America is balancing on a very frayed high wire.
The irony of it all and to partly answer your last question. America is the closet Godly paradise you will find in this world and it is a mess!
< Message edited by Walker311 -- 4/27/2008 9:32:36 AM >
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RE: THE U.S. IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/27/2008 9:49:52 AM
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Walker311
Posts: 1861
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Sinnersaved,
quote:
With respect, I believe that your nations biggest problem is your leadership. Do you not realise that the leader of the US is the leader of the free world? If you do, then why is that leadership so lacking? Why does it ride roughshod over the feelings of the people it is meant to lead? (for example the Kyoto Agreement).
I disagree! The problem is what I said in a previous post. The problem lies in the hearts and minds of men.
There is no leadership that can now fix what is broken. It would take a major unifying/alligning of the minds in Washington and in each state to make a dent in the problems that we now face.
Our future leaders are being raised in volatile environments that exclude God, love, and morality.
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RE: THE U.S. IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/27/2008 10:36:00 AM
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mvic
Posts: 484
Joined: 1/17/2008
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OK ... so everyone has had a moan and pointed at what is wrong with the US, the UK and the world.
Let's now take a deep breath. Imagine for a moment that Jesus was reading these posts. What would He say?
"Oh you of little Faith".
No matter what you fear, and perhaps I sympathise with some of you, I for one still believe there is Hope for this world. There is a lot that is good in the US, as well as the UK and elsewhere. Just look around you and you'll see.
Am I alone in thinking this way? Where are all the other people who think like me? Join in this debate and let us turn this thread into Hope rather than despair.
_____________________________
http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
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RE: THE U.S. IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/27/2008 12:08:32 PM
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SinnerSaved
Posts: 269
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Belfast, N. Ireland
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
OK ... so everyone has had a moan and pointed at what is wrong with the US, the UK and the world.
Let's now take a deep breath. Imagine for a moment that Jesus was reading these posts. What would He say?
Matthew 5:13-15
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
No matter what you fear, and perhaps I sympathise with some of you, I for one still believe there is Hope for this world. There is a lot that is good in the US, as well as the UK and elsewhere. Just look around you and you'll see.
Am I alone in thinking this way? Where are all the other people who think like me? Join in this debate and let us turn this thread into Hope rather than despair.
We have been in a state of decay since the Fall, and it's been getting worse. Only when He comes again in judgement and creates a new heaven and a new earth will this be reversed.
Revelation 21:1-4
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
As Christians, we should not be sitting wringing our hands forlornly saying there is no hope for the world, nor should we be deleriously happy clappy and singing 'I'm saved, and I know that I am!'. We were given the great commission to complete. To extend the kingdom. To tell others the good news. But we also live in the world which is IN BIG TROUBLE, and we can analyse the reasons why. We may not be able to put it right, or do everything, but we can do something. We act as salt and cleanse the earth. We shine our light to the world and act as a beacon to attract others. We pray for revival. Remember His promise:
2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
< Message edited by SinnerSaved -- 4/27/2008 12:15:23 PM >
_____________________________
"No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
John Donne
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RE: THE U.S. IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/27/2008 12:12:23 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3665
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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quote:
major illegal drug problems
Because a few of them have made them legal. I prefer...illegal.
quote:
No other country in the world kills as many babies.
In China I believe it is still illegal to have more than a certain number of kids? How do you think they end pregnancies? Abortion is forced.
quote:
OUTSOURCing
I can't decide...global warming....outsourceing, which is the biggest farce?
quote:
greedy lawyers...
So lawyers in other countries are not greedy? Saying greedy lawyer is the same as saying New York Giants Super Bowl champion...the adjectives naturally fit the nouns.
quote:
We have a major breakdown in the family unit. No longer is it mom and dad. It is mom only... or 2 dads or 2 moms... thanks to homosexuality. Take your pick!
Homosexuality hasn't hurt the family as much as uncontrolled heterosexuality has....and I think other countries have homosexuals and marriage issues as well.
quote:
Though we have a rich history of what seemed to be doom and gloom, those times were not filled with the abundance of what I just mentioned and you cannot continue to blatantly oppose God and expect to overcome the bad times.
When has our nation...or any nation...NOT blatantly oppose God?
quote:
America is balancing on a very frayed high wire.
IF this is true and that is a MT. Everest IF....then we are put there by the constant fearmongering and its support, the influx of media influence in this country.
We are safer than at any time in our nations history. Do you remember the duck and cover drills in school? I sure do. I knew I wasn't going to live to be twenty.
Any Hitlers or Stalins lately? Between them they murdered 26 million people.
Any plagues....besides the behaviorly spread ones?
There is a passage about some tower that fell...some disastor that was in the "news" back then. Its not a big deal biblically.
When events in the world become a big deal....spiritually....it will be very evident. Plainly evident. Supernaturally evident.
quote:
The problem lies in the hearts and minds of men.
The unsaved....correct. Its the world. We are strangers in this world. The world wi8ll always act like the world until there isn't this world anymore.
I believe our perceptions as saved people have been influenced by two factors. One is a good factor that can be...for lack of a better word...perverted and the other stems from perversion.
The first is being Holy Spirit indwellt. The one aspect of this relevent to the discussion is...discernment. Yes, with the Holy Spirit we can discern what is of God and what is not. We know what evil is. The perversion comes in when we lose sight of who God is and that He is in control and we focus instead on the evil around us. We CAN see it because we are saved but we CANNOT serve it.
The other aspect is the increasing information overload we are subjected to...almost all of it bad. We see bad stuff all the time in the news. Even for a saved person this can produce stress...and a poor perception.
That is my opinion. I am no scholar. I am not psyche major. I just call em as I see em.
quote:
"Oh you of little Faith".
This IS the easy answer. It is also the ONLY answer.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: THE U.S. IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/27/2008 1:07:03 PM
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kung_fu_sed
Posts: 51
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Walker311
I was going to list many things that I have read and heard concerning the reason for my title but I am curious if Christians are apathetic or truly aware of what is going on right now in this nation and I want you to share what you know and believe.
So, what are some things going on in this nation that has gotten your attention?
Do you believe that there are darker days ahead or nothing to worry about?
In your opinion, what do you believe is our Nation's biggest problem and what do you believe is the remedy?
Has this year been business as usual for you and your family or do you find yourself needing to form a strategy plan?
Don't fall for the coming false peace...
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=fFRl5zdZ6Zg&feature=related
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RE: THE U.S. IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/27/2008 3:25:15 PM
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Walker311
Posts: 1861
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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I realize that there are many who are similar to John the Baptist shouting "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" while there are others who are like the ones standing outside a giant wooden boat joking and laughing and shouting "what rain" while storm clouds gather overhead.
WE know what the bible says about these days...
Lu:21:9: But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
However...
M't:24:14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
I think we are there but it's not my call... I'm not God.
So, we need to be alert and aware and not be smug in the comfort of our own beds.
Some Christians need to be shaken to their core. Some just need to wake up.
< Message edited by Walker311 -- 4/27/2008 3:32:37 PM >
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RE: THE U.S. IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!! - 4/27/2008 3:33:06 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1069
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Money is worshipped. Gossip magazines and TV programmes abound. Violent games like Grand Theft Auto are being sold to our children. Films glorifying violence and secular values are being distributed to the world. We now have an appalling number of abortions. Christian values are ridiculed and ignored by the government.
In my humble opinion, the first sentence is the crux of the problem. The rest of this post is just the wake that follows the pursuit of the dollar.
quote:
With respect, I believe that your nations biggest problem is your leadership.
Like Walker, I disagree. It's easy to point to the leaders in office and assign all blame to them. The leadership failure begins at home. We have expectations of our leaders that we don't have of ourselves.
quote:
Walker
These countries do not have major illegal drug problems even if THEY produce and ship it. Their drugs are in America.
No, drug problems abound in many other nations. We simply hear about our own drug problems because it's what we are attuned to. Plus, the money is in the US. The drug dealers/cartels prefer to ship to the US because there's more money involved..
On a side note, why do we have such a demand for drugs/intoxicants in this nation? Is it because we all to frequently fail to love just as Christ loves us?
quote:
We have a major breakdown in the family unit. No longer is it mom and dad. It is mom only... or 2 dads or 2 moms... thanks to homosexuality. Take your pick!
Where have we (the church) been? Why does the popular culture as presented by the major media have more influence on us (the church) than we do on the world? We've compromised Christ by accepting and embracing our family members who've walked away from God to pursue the flesh. We've enabled and emboldened their movement because we love what we believe to be harmony more than we love God.
quote:
Our future le | | | |
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