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This is not the gospel of Christ is is a black KKK rally. It keeps memebers stuck in the past, so they cannot become sucessful, or truly free. The Bible itself will back up my last statement.

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ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter

True words, Tracy. God bless you for saying that!

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ORIGINAL: wing2000

BILL MOYERS: One of the most controversial sermons that you preach is the sermon you preach that ended up being that sound bite about **** America.

REVEREND JEREMIAH WRIGHT (SERMON TAPE): Where governments lie, God does not lie. Where governments change, God does not change. And I'm through now. But let me leave you with one more thing. Governments fail. The government in this text comprised of Caesar, Cornelius, Pontius Pilate - the Roman government failed. The British government used to rule from East to West. The British government had a Union Jack. She colonized Kenya, Ghana, Nigeria, Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad and Hong Kong. Her navies ruled the seven seas all the way down to the tip of Argentina in the Falklands, but the British government failed. The Russian government failed. The Japanese government failed. The German government failed. And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent fairly, she failed. She put them on reservations. When it came to treating her citizens of Japanese descent fairly, she failed. She put them in internment prison camps. When it came to treating citizens of African descent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains. The government put them on slave quarters, put them on auction blocks, put them in cotton fields, put them in inferior schools, put them in substandard housing, put them in scientific experiments, put them in the lowest paying jobs, put them outside the equal protection of the law, kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education and locked them into position of hopelessness and helplessness. The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law, and then wants us to sing God bless America? No, no, no. Not God bless America; God damn America! That's in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating her citizen as less than human. God damn America as long as she keeps trying to act like she is God and she is supreme!

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I can't quibble with anything other than his use of the world "damn". I've heard many a fundamentalist white preacher go on about America needing to be judged and referred to by dispensationalists as a whore.

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ORIGINAL: cow451

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ORIGINAL: wing2000

BILL MOYERS: One of the most controversial sermons that you preach is the sermon you preach that ended up being that sound bite about **** America.

REVEREND JEREMIAH WRIGHT (SERMON TAPE): Where governments lie, God does not lie. Where governments change, God does not change. And I'm through now. But let me leave you with one more thing. Governments fail. The government in this text comprised of Caesar, Cornelius, Pontius Pilate - the Roman government failed. The British government used to rule from East to West. The British government had a Union Jack. She colonized Kenya, Ghana, Nigeria, Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad and Hong Kong. Her navies ruled the seven seas all the way down to the tip of Argentina in the Falklands, but the British government failed. The Russian government failed. The Japanese government failed. The German government failed. And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent fairly, she failed. She put them on reservations. When it came to treating her citizens of Japanese descent fairly, she failed. She put them in internment prison camps. When it came to treating citizens of African descent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains. The government put them on slave quarters, put them on auction blocks, put them in cotton fields, put them in inferior schools, put them in substandard housing, put them in scientific experiments, put them in the lowest paying jobs, put them outside the equal protection of the law, kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education and locked them into position of hopelessness and helplessness. The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law, and then wants us to sing God bless America? No, no, no. Not God bless America; God damn America! That's in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating her citizen as less than human. God damn America as long as she keeps trying to act like she is God and she is supreme!

I can't quibble with anything other than his use of the world "damn". I've heard many a fundamentalist white preacher go on about America needing to be judged and referred to by dispensationalists as a whore.

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ORIGINAL: tracydolls

From the Church website:


""The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology."""


this is where I have a problem with him, read that book" quote-- "if G-d doesnt kill the white people for us, then we should kill G-d."


Obama is on TV now. Talk later.

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Who Is This Man?

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The man that just got thrown under the bus with grandma.

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ORIGINAL: tracydolls

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The man that just got thrown under the bus with grandma.

Wright not only threw him under the bus, he got in drivers seat and backed over him.

Having an French-Canadian grandmother, I knew exactly what he was talking about, my grandmother used to say things that made me cringe.

But it happens on both sides, the first time I heard "honkey" some kids were calling my mom that and I ran home and asked was she one and how come she has to be one? And cried for days. and fought all the time because of it.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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I can't quibble with anything other than his use of the world "damn". I've heard many a fundamentalist white preacher go on about America needing to be judged and referred to by dispensationalists as a whore.

So you think the American government is giving black people drugs?

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ORIGINAL: tracydolls

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This is not the gospel of Christ is is a black KKK rally. It keeps memebers stuck in the past, so they cannot become sucessful, or truly free. The Bible itself will back up my last statement.

This is so true. When you become a slave to Christ, you are truly free. God ordained slavery, we did not get led out in chains without God saying so, when I was being purged of my racism, He showed me this. when a person asks the Lord why? He gives knowledge freely.

As a pastor Rev. Wright should not be saying whites are enemies, Satan is the enemy! and our own flesh.

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I agree to a certain degree, but I don’t think Rev. Wright ever said the white man was the enemy.

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believe that his comments were closer to this government which just so happen to have a majority white membership need to held accountable for it’s involvement in many of the sins it has committed against its people and those abroad. That means black, Native Americans, Latino Americans, Arabs, poor Whites, etc.

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I know I’m going to be accused for reaching, but can anyone honestly say or type with a straight face that America does not need to be held accountable for her sins?

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Not saying I’m anti American because I love this country and would not want to be any place (well maybe Jamaica ) else, but I believe that God is slowly pulling away the blessings and prosperity this country has experienced over the past century.

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America needs to repent and put away its drum major instinct.

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We all know as Christians our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, powers, the rules of darkness of this world and against spiritual wickedness in high places. That darkness has had its control over the spirit of those who have controlled and condoned many of the atrocities this country has committed against it’s own citizens and those abroad.

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I don’t know the mind of God, but I have a feeling that He is allowing all these things to occur to let America see that she’s wrong. This is what I got from Rev. Wright in some of the things he has said, though I don’t agree with everything, I do agree with some.

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ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Well Ken It would include all of us, most of us are Americans. He will punish the whole world for thier sins. There is grace for Christians, Roman chp 5 vs.1. We may have done things that have been wrong, but which country has not? Since the fall we all are sinners blacks, whites ( rich and poor), middle east. Japanese. Who has a pure heart and clean hands. I would dare say, ( Iknow you wil disagree) we Americans are treated better by the goverment, than anywhere in the world. The earth belongs to the prince of the air. Wright, needs to quit acting like he is God's mouth also. He is an unclean vessel, with a bitter soul. Do you know forgiveness is power, not weakness. I am teaching my JR. High daughter this lesson, after she is bullied.
Have you ever watched "Golden Girls" the reruns, well I do not anymore, but on my televison in my bedroom, I walked in and it was on the TV. Sophia the mother was giving her daughter Dorthy advice on anger. Her advice was this. " Anger is like getting Shredded wheat under your dentures, if you do not remove the shredded wheat, from under there for a week it makes a sore on your gums, that gets bigger, and bigger and will not heal and you drink Jello. "When you decide to remove the shredded wheat, from under the dentures, the sore heals."
Ok strange as this is, I understood what was being said. I believe God speaks to us in many ways. If the anger does not let go it creates a wound that will not heal, until it is removed than healing begins. This anology came at a very crucial time as my daughter Emily was bullied last year and her anger from last year, made her do something bad yesterday, I had to go to school for. I ask Emily "if she bullied anybody before", she siad "yes", actually it was her best friend now, when in the sixth grade, she is in the eighth now. I ask her if her friend had forgiven her, she said "yes", I ask her doesn't those who bullied you last year deserve the same grace? She said "yes." My point in this rambiling is this Wright has a worm in his soul, an unidentified parasite, making a wound that will not heal, he feeds the anger, feeds it to others. Reminds me of Saul, and we know what happened to him. Anybody of any race, income level, religon have clean hands. Please read this, and have understanding what I am saying. This was very personal for me.

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ORIGINAL: tracydolls

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I agree to a certain degree, but I don’t think Rev. Wright ever said the white man was the enemy.

the NAACP meeting this weekend, watch all of it? I believe there he said it, and a few other times. you do know he went on a media blitz against BO, right, your probaly seeing the clips from all 3 interviews this weekend! Look again. I'm sick of looking at him, otherwise I would find it.

He said it though

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believe that his comments were closer to this government which just so happen to have a majority white membership need to held accountable for it’s involvement in many of the sins it has committed against its people and those abroad. That means black, Native Americans, Latino Americans, Arabs, poor Whites, etc.

But we, Black people can hold them accountable? How? Sounds like that is G-d's job. We can absolve someone of sin? We don't have enough of anything to even try, how would you go about it? how would you punish them? with what?

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I know I’m going to be accused for reaching, but can anyone honestly say or type with a straight face that America does not need to be held accountable for her sins?

I can type this as I have been doing, AMERICA WILL PAY FOR HER SINS!

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Not saying I’m anti American because I love this country and would not want to be any place (well maybe Jamaica ) else, but I believe that God is slowly pulling away the blessings and prosperity this country has experienced over the past century.

He's yanking the rug quite hard now, it's not going slowly anymore. I love my citizenship in Heaven. they can take this country and this world and what was the words?....

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America needs to repent and put away its drum major instinct.

We know she needs to repent, how can Rev. Wright make her repent?

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We all know as Christians our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, powers, the rules of darkness of this world and against spiritual wickedness in high places. That darkness has had its control over the spirit of those who have controlled and condoned many of the atrocities this country has committed against it’s own citizens and those abroad.

Anyone reading a simple history book should know that she has dogged her people, the ones here, the ones she brought here, look at how the Irish were did, did you know an Italian family got hung in New Orleans, 11 members, kids and all, Leo Frank a JEW, she gonna pay. Too much blood on her hands.,in the ground, G-d says the blood of the innocent cry out to Him, believe me there is alot of blood running in this ground. Anyone should know that. G-d knows the exact number only. but we do not add to it. Keep our hands clean.

The Egyptians PAID, after 400 years, remember the Israelites "borrowed. plundered" from Egypt as they left, the 10 plagues, the Red Sea, etc.

The Bible talks about slavery, reread it. Read the story of Moses again.

Here's a verse,

Exo 21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.



But WE can't part the Red Sea? We can't put the plagues on them, believe me I have wanted to.

Only G-D can.

Rev. Wright cannot.

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I don’t know the mind of God, but I have a feeling that He is allowing all these things to occur to let America see that she’s wrong. This is what I got from Rev. Wright in some of the things he has said, though I don’t agree with everything, I do agree with some.

Your theology(the study of religion)cannot be based on James Cones Book written in 1969, you know that, right. that's on his website.

It must be based on the Bible.


Unrightousness will not beat anyone, it will only defeat, joining them in the mess will not be the answer. Believe me I just left the "Black Power Movement" I got saved.

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I understand, but we talk about accountability all the time.

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We judge all the time.

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The way many have judged Rev. Wright and holding him accountable for his comments we should do the same as it relates to America.

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She as a whole have done far worst than the comments of one man in Rev. Wright.

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Is there a preference on who we judge and who we hold accountable?

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Is he fair game while others who have made similar comments or maybe America altogether is off limits?

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I'm being sincere here, please help me understand

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ORIGINAL: ken1906_4

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ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Well Ken It would include all of us, most of us are Americans. He will punish the whole world for thier sins. There is grace for Christians, Roman chp 5 vs.1. We may have done things that have been wrong, but which country has not? Since the fall we all are sinners blacks, whites ( rich and poor), middle east. Japanese. Who has a pure heart and clean hands. I would dare say, ( Iknow you wil disagree) we Americans are treated better by the goverment, than anywhere in the world. The earth belongs to the prince of the air. Wright, needs to quit acting like he is God's mouth also. He is an unclean vessel, with a bitter soul. Do you know forgiveness is power, not weakness. I am teaching my JR. High daughter this lesson, after she is bullied.
Have you ever watched "Golden Girls" the reruns, well I do not anymore, but on my televison in my bedroom, I walked in and it was on the TV. Sophia the mother was giving her daughter Dorthy advice on anger. Her advice was this. " Anger is like getting Shredded wheat under your dentures, if you do not remove the shredded wheat, from under there for a week it makes a sore on your gums, that gets bigger, and bigger and will not heal and you drink Jello. "When you decide to remove the shredded wheat, from under the dentures, the sore heals."
Ok strange as this is, I understood what was being said. I believe God speaks to us in many ways. If the anger does not let go it creates a wound that will not heal, until it is removed than healing begins. This anology came at a very crucial time as my daughter Emily was bullied last year and her anger from last year, made her do something bad yesterday, I had to go to school for. I ask Emily "if she bullied anybody before", she siad "yes", actually it was her best friend now, when in the sixth grade, she is in the eighth now. I ask her if her friend had forgiven her, she said "yes", I ask her doesn't those who bullied you last year deserve the same grace? She said "yes." My point in this rambiling is this Wright has a worm in his soul, an unidentified parasite, making a wound that will not heal, he feeds the anger, feeds it to others. Reminds me of Saul, and we know what happened to him. Anybody of any race, income level, religon have clean hands. Please read this, and have understanding what I am saying. This was very personal for me.

I understand what you are saying and like Tracydoll I agree to a certain degree, but I cannot bring myself to fully demonize this man for his rantings without knowing the reason why he is saying the things he has said. Do you think he is just talking out the side of his neck and making stuff up? For me, I don’t think so (accept for maybe the AIDS thing), but in some of his comments there is a level of truth especially if you put it in a proper historical and sometimes biblical context. The problem we have encountered when trying to analyze stuff like this from a historical perspective is that a lot of us have a one sided POV when it comes to history. Maybe it’s due to ignorance, not giving a darn, or maybe not willing to face historical truths about the dark times in human history as it relates to this country. All I wish and this goes beyond the current discussion about Rev. Wright that we research from all points of views before we start weighing in on subjects. Sometimes we have to admit that we don’t know everything and then humble ourselves enough to look it up and do unbiased research on the subject and then form our opinions for discussion.
Lightshineon, I’m going to tell you like this; though I’m a techie (software engineer) I have a love for history. I have been reading historical documents ever since I was a kid. Now that I’m saved I’m trying to merge of what I learned in history with what I am current