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stellaluna -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 11:27:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna
God takes care of me and He's in charge of the weather and I don't care.

There it is-- right there. "God bless me. I don't care."
That's the problem.

That's not what I said.

Of the list above, I actually do almost all of them. (Yes, some are impossible.) I am a good steward of the part of the earth that I can affect. Anyone who knows me will vouch for that. That is as much as anyone can do, and I refuse to jump onto some alarmist bandwagon because Al Gore or anyone else tells me I should.

It's not "God bless me." It's faith that I have done/am doing as much as I can and no matter how much money I throw at the Polar Bear Foundation or whatever, He is in charge. I don't care beyond that.



StephK -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 11:41:52 AM)

When the environmentalist mouthpieces do as they say first then maybe the plebeians will follow suit. [;)]



stellaluna -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 11:47:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

When the environmentalist mouthpieces do as they say first then maybe the plebeians will follow suit. [;)]

Yeah!



freakofnature -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 1:55:59 PM)

Comedy Gold...

"Is the hot air emitted by celebrities when they spout ecological platitudes a greenhouse gas?"

Following article poses the above question:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=564215



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 3:35:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna
That's not what I said.

Actually, you did.

quote:

That is as much as anyone can do, and I refuse to jump onto some alarmist bandwagon because Al Gore or anyone else tells me I should.

I said nothing about jumping onto "some alarmist bandwagon." Recognizing a problem can be done rationally, sanely, and without any degree of hysteria.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK
When the environmentalist mouthpieces do as they say first then maybe the plebeians will follow suit.

They already do, to the abject scorn and disapproval of your ilk.

So much for your cop-out.

quote:

"Is the hot air emitted by celebrities when they spout ecological platitudes a greenhouse gas?"

Although I appreciate the humor of this, it highlights a major, major misconception by right wingers who believe that global warming is nothing more than the invention of some hyped-out Hollywood celebrities.

Folks, it is a scientific fact even if it lacks the acknowledgement of so much as one Hollywood celebrity.



freakofnature -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 3:40:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna
That's not what I said.

Actually, you did.

quote:

That is as much as anyone can do, and I refuse to jump onto some alarmist bandwagon because Al Gore or anyone else tells me I should.

I said nothing about jumping onto "some alarmist bandwagon." Recognizing a problem can be done rationally, sanely, and without any degree of hysteria.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK
When the environmentalist mouthpieces do as they say first then maybe the plebeians will follow suit.

They already do, to the abject scorn and disapproval of your ilk.

So much for your cop-out.

quote:

"Is the hot air emitted by celebrities when they spout ecological platitudes a greenhouse gas?"

Although I appreciate the humor of this, it highlights a major, major misconception by right wingers who believe that global warming is nothing more than the invention of some hyped-out Hollywood celebrities.

Folks, it is a scientific fact even if it lacks the acknowledgement of so much as one Hollywood celebrity.



I am not reading the entire group of posts... I don't disagree that the earth may or may not be warming up? You and I probably disagree on the reasons why. But HEY! Blame America first, try and change our laws and policies and throw us all back to the ice age if wish. Pun completely intended!!!!



StephK -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 3:41:07 PM)

Most of us understand that the climate will change because throughout history it has without being caused by mankind.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 4:12:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freakofnature
I don't disagree that the earth may or may not be warming up? You and I probably disagree on the reasons why. But HEY! Blame America first, try and change our laws and policies and throw us all back to the ice age if wish. Pun completely intended!!!!

This makes no sense at all. Somewhere in your reactionary response there may reside a point, but I can't see it through all of the huff 'n' puff.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK
Most of us understand that the climate will change because throughout history it has without being caused by mankind.

At no time throughout history has there been 6.7 billion people (and climbing) residing on this planet until now. Only for the last 500 years has there been a worldwide import/export market, and the industrial age has been around only half as long as that.
And yet you can't imagine how humans can possibly be affecting the weather patterns of our planet because . . . why?
Refresh me, please . . .



stellaluna -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 4:40:03 PM)

I understood her post perfectly. Throughout time there has been global climate change absent the 6.7 billion you just mentioned.



mapachito13 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 4:53:35 PM)

The past twelve monthes have seen a drop in global temperatures.

Read Here

Here

Boston Globe

Now if CO2 is very responsible for this phenomenom and the levels have spiked to neverbefore seen levels, then there should be no drop in temperatures but a continuation of gradual warming since there is more CO2 to retain the heat. In other words, the average global temperatures should have increased by approximately 0.6-0.75 degrees centigrade not decreased like the data has shown.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 5:01:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I understood her post perfectly. Throughout time there has been global climate change absent the 6.7 billion you just mentioned.

Well, sure. For that matter there have been major natural calamities that threatened all life on the planet long before mankind ever existed. This has nothing to do with what has been monitored for the last 150 years.
In the last 150 years there have been no major shifts in the planetary balance due to natural circumstances. However, there has been a major spike in atmospheric CO2 coinciding with a major spike in human population, and major pollution due to industrial activity worldwide.

And yet you contend that there is no logical connection between humans and global warming? By what logic should I agree with your conclusion?



stellaluna -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 5:05:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
And yet you contend that there is no logical connection between humans and global warming? By what logic should I agree with your conclusion?

I never said that either.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 5:09:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13
The past twelve monthes have seen a drop in global temperatures.

Twelve months out of one hundred fifty three years is a very miniscule ratio.

quote:

Now if CO2 is very responsible for this phenomenom and the levels have spiked to neverbefore seen levels, then there should be no drop in temperatures but a continuation of gradual warming since there is more CO2 to retain the heat.

Funny how you have already forgotten that last summer was a record-breaker for hot temperatures across the nation. This doesn't mean that colder temperatures are no longer possible, but only that a steady, nonexponential, long-range increase with no retrogrades whatsoever is not likely. This is hardly surprising.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 5:10:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I never said that either.

Well, perhaps you could end the guesswork for me and tell me plainly what you are saying.



colliefan -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 5:16:13 PM)

So when did trees stop taking up CO2

Let's take a look at some quotes from some evironmentals and see true agenda of global warming

quote:


I get the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds, I should go out and shoot the kids who shoot the birds.
Greenpeace co-founder
Paul Watson
Access to Energy
Vol. 10.4
12/82


and from our non-baised media (cough, cough)

quote:

Us homo sapiens are turning out to be as destructive as an asteroid. Earth's intricite system of ecosystems survived for millions pf years as natural paradises before we came along.....The stark reality is that there are too many of us, And we consume way too much. Especially here at home...The solutions are not secret; control population , recycle, reduce consumption

Matt Lauer
MSNBC
Countdown to Doomsday
6/06


Man is bad Capitalism is bad, Earth is to be worshiped above God



stellaluna -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 5:20:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I never said that either.

Well, perhaps you could end the guesswork for me and tell me plainly what you are saying.

I restated StephK's post because it seemed you didn't understand it.

What I'm saying, plainly, is that over the years there have been reliable sources (in my estimation) stating both sides of this argument: humans cause global warming v. no they don't.

What I'm saying, plainly, is that I used to worry about climate change and now I don't.

What I'm saying, plainly, is that I don't believe anything we do at this point is going to make a bit of difference. As I stated earlier, I do what I can where I live. The rest I leave up to God. (And if everyone did what they could where they live, we wouldn't have all these problems in the first place.)



its_GO_time -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 5:31:47 PM)

quote:

Man is bad Capitalism is bad, Earth is to be worshiped above God


Unless you're Al Gore(he's good) and you're milking cash from American corporations(that's good capitalisim). The only thing warming up on earth, is the Gore's bank account, and it's probably smokin'(eco-friendly smoke I'm sure)



StephK -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 5:39:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

quote:

ORIGINAL: freakofnature
I don't disagree that the earth may or may not be warming up? You and I probably disagree on the reasons why. But HEY! Blame America first, try and change our laws and policies and throw us all back to the ice age if wish. Pun completely intended!!!!

This makes no sense at all. Somewhere in your reactionary response there may reside a point, but I can't see it through all of the huff 'n' puff.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK
Most of us understand that the climate will change because throughout history it has without being caused by mankind.

At no time throughout history has there been 6.7 billion people (and climbing) residing on this planet until now. Only for the last 500 years has there been a worldwide import/export market, and the industrial age has been around only half as long as that.
And yet you can't imagine how humans can possibly be affecting the weather patterns of our planet because . . . why?
Refresh me, please . . .


It's going to change regardless of the population. It's done it before and it will do it again without man's help or interference. If one of the super volcanoes blows, life as we know it could very well be nonexistant. Volcanic activity along with the ocean current patterns determine weather change more than man. Granted people should not go out and trash the place and no one here has advocated that either. For the record, I do know what it's like to live where a major hurricane hit. It's part of what helps me see that we humans are mere specs in comparison to the weather.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 5:51:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan
So when did trees stop taking up CO2

When they got cut down and/or burned. How many times do I have to spell it out for you?:
d-e-f-o-r-e-s-t-a-t-i-o-n: worldwide, man-made phenomenon, especially in South America, Central America, Africa, and Southeast Asia wherein millions of acres of forest are leveled and/or burned daily to convert to pasture land, farm land, or to accomodate urban/industrial growth.

quote:

Let's take a look at some quotes from some evironmentals and see true agenda of global warming

Let's . . .

quote:


I get the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds, I should go out and shoot the kids who shoot the birds.
Greenpeace co-founder
Paul Watson
Access to Energy
Vol. 10.4
12/82

You should quote-mine more carefully. This one does not address global warming at all.

quote:

The stark reality is that there are too many of us, And we consume way too much. Especially here at home...The solutions are not secret; control population , recycle, reduce consumption
Matt Lauer
MSNBC
Countdown to Doomsday
6/06

This is absolutely correct. I have been saying this all along.

quote:

Man is bad

Man is overpopulous.

quote:

Capitalism is bad

Only to the degree that it involves unbridled industrial waste.

quote:

Earth is to be worshiped above God

Is survival and personal responsibility the same as worship? Get real.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I restated StephK's post because it seemed you didn't understand it

I understood, but the logic of it was faulty.

quote:

What I'm saying, plainly, is that over the years there have been reliable sources (in my estimation) stating both sides of this argument: humans cause global warming v. no they don't.

. . . But few that deny global warming entirely, like so many right wingers do.

quote:

What I'm saying, plainly, is that I used to worry about climate change and now I don't.

Well, fine. It won't do any good to lose sleep over it.

quote:

What I'm saying, plainly, is that I don't believe anything we do at this point is going to make a bit of difference.

This is where I disagree. We could make a heck of a difference if we wanted to; we (the whole world) just don't want to because we let abject consumerism and greed determine our course.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 5:57:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK
It's going to change regardless of the population.

By what scientific criteria do you proffer this opinion? This is a unique moment in earth's history. Comparing it to past conditions is comparing incongruous circumstances.

quote:

If one of the super volcanoes blows, life as we know it could very well be nonexistant. Volcanic activity along with the ocean current patterns determine weather change more than man.

This does not explain the changes in the past 150 years.

quote:

Granted people should not go out and trash the place and no one here has advocated that either.

Not true. People are advocating this very thing when they justify it with sarcastic adages like: "Man is bad Capitalism is bad, Earth is to be worshiped above God"

quote:

For the record, I do know what it's like to live where a major hurricane hit. It's part of what helps me see that we humans are mere specs in comparison to the weather.

How fitting: the increase in the North Atlantic's hurricane activity is attributable to global warming.
Now do you see that we are not "mere specks" if we, in effect, are opening Pandora's Box?



GroupW -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 6:02:54 PM)

quote:


Do you recycle?

Yes, and it's amazing how much it's reduced what gets thrown away.

quote:


Drive a hybrid,

No but am saving money for a diesel for my next car

quote:


use non aresol,

Whenever possible.

quote:


green products only?

When I see them

quote:


eat organic foods only?

When I can. The best store for organics is a bit of a drive. Kind of defeats the purpose.

quote:


carpool,

Moved my office closer to the house so I don't have to anymore.

quote:


use the swirly lights only?

Yes. Helps keep the house cooler in the summer also since we don't and won't have A/C.

quote:


Send money to save the Polar Bear foundation?

Sierra Club gets a donation every year.

I live up in the mountains so there are tradeoffs. I need four wheel drive if I'm to get anywhere at all in winter, so that's a negative. I work very close to my house however so I don't burn that much gas and can bike to work in good weather. That helps offset the 4wd. We don't need A/C up here very often, so we don't have it. It's colder up here so we burn more energy in the winter time. Getting good sun minimizes that.

We do what you can. Some things aren't possible or practical but each little bit helps.



GroupW -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 6:07:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

The past twelve monthes have seen a drop in global temperatures.

Now if CO2 is very responsible for this phenomenom and the levels have spiked to neverbefore seen levels, then there should be no drop in temperatures but a continuation of gradual warming since there is more CO2 to retain the heat. In other words, the average global temperatures should have increased by approximately 0.6-0.75 degrees centigrade not decreased like the data has shown.


Actually not true. In addition to a warming trend, it's also reasonable to expect increased temperature volatility along with it. There will be cooler years and warmer years. The theory only predicts a trend toward higher temps not that the trend will be smooth and uniform. Uniform trends are only very rarely seen in nature and not to be expected. It's a bit like saying that if I habitually get B's but get an A in one class that I've successfully turned my academic career around.



StephK -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 6:48:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK
It's going to change regardless of the population.

By what scientific criteria do you proffer this opinion? This is a unique moment in earth's history. Comparing it to past conditions is comparing incongruous circumstances.

quote:

If one of the super volcanoes blows, life as we know it could very well be nonexistant. Volcanic activity along with the ocean current patterns determine weather change more than man.

This does not explain the changes in the past 150 years.

quote:

Granted people should not go out and trash the place and no one here has advocated that either.

Not true. People are advocating this very thing when they justify it with sarcastic adages like: "Man is bad Capitalism is bad, Earth is to be worshiped above God"

quote:

For the record, I do know what it's like to live where a major hurricane hit. It's part of what helps me see that we humans are mere specs in comparison to the weather.

How fitting: the increase in the North Atlantic's hurricane activity is attributable to global warming.
Now do you see that we are not "mere specks" if we, in effect, are opening Pandora's Box?



I'm watching the History channel right now and it's on the Little Ice Age. Part of the reason they are stating caused it was diminished solar activity and major volcanic activity. Of course they are covering all bases in stating that global warming will cause another little ice age.



mapachito13 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 7:33:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13
The past twelve monthes have seen a drop in global temperatures.

Twelve months out of one hundred fifty three years is a very miniscule ratio.


How miniscule then is 150 years to say 2 Billion years?

And out of 150 years we only have 30 years of direct global temperature mesurement that doesn't resort to inferential analysis.



colliefan -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 7:45:58 PM)

quote:

burned daily to convert to pasture land, farm land,


need to do it to get corn for bio-fuels

quote:


To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world's population problem
Eizabeth Whelan
Toxic Terror



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