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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "False Teacher Forum"?
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 2:05:16 PM
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earthless
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Answering a question about why naming names is indeed biblical is grounds of "taking things out of context, etc"?
AOI -sorry but this is now the second time you have claimed this whenever I bother to respond to something you have posted. It seems a bit odd...
All I can tell is you the following:
1) False teachers and false prophets are indeed alive and well in our church circles
2) Sincere and unknowing believers and non-believers pay heed to what they say
3) The brethren are made merchandise by those above
4) It's a mandate by God to believers that all be tested in light of Scripture
5) To warn others of false teachers, wolves in sheep's clothing
6) To always have an answer for the faith you proclaim
So on and so forth..
If someone is bothered by the fact some Christians do this is beyond me.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 2:06:39 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
If I bake a batch of brownies, use milk, eggs, real chocolate, etc.
BUT first I go out in the street and get a thimble full of dog poop and mix it in, will you eat the brownies?
Full of good stuff, with just a very small amount of bad stuff mixed in.
Of course not. Unless I did not tell you . Then you would happily munch the poop brownies in ignorance.
False teachings are the same way. Bits of poop floating in otherwise great churches. Someone needs to explain the recipe, SO PEOPLE WILL KNOW.
But how dare another person who knows there is poop in them warn others of such.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 2:10:35 PM
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earthless
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False teachers are free to spread their poisonous doctrines today because there is a conspiracy of silence among many Bible believers. Wolves in sheep's clothing are thus enabled to ravage the flock, thereby destroying many.
John the Baptist called the Pharisees and Sadducee's (the religious leaders of his day) "a generation of vipers" (snakes) (Matthew 3:7). Today, he would be accused of being unloving, unkind, and unchristian.
In our day these false teachers have come into the churches with their books, literature, movies, psychology, and seminars, and have turned the Father's house into a den of thieves. It is time that men of God stand up and expose their errors for all to see.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 2:15:50 PM
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bluestone
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I agree with Earthless. It hasa invaded many churches, and if you dare to question a pastor about it after a sermon, you are labeled "Someone who causes problems".
People don't want to rock the boat. Even when holes are being drilled in it.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 2:39:28 PM
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Soxfan
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Rick Warren instructs pastors to "weed out" anyone in their church that objects to his Purpose Drivel model.
Defenders of these "pulpit pimps" love to mis-use "Touch not God's anointed"
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 2:39:31 PM
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crankius
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AoibhinnGrainne
PS: Mathew 18. It starts with Matthew 18, you'all. Or am I missing something again???
Aoi.
Is this what you are referring to?
Matt 18:15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Surely if my brother sins against me I will follow Matt 18.
If a person is teaching publicly, they must expect that their teaching will be weighed against scripture. If false teaching is found, that false teaching should be exposed in the exact manner the false teaching was exposed by Paul in the NT--in a public manner, so that all may be made aware of the false teaching.
quote:
In our day these false teachers have come into the churches with their books, literature, movies, psychology, and seminars, and have turned the Father's house into a den of thieves. It is time that men of God stand up and expose their errors for all to see.
I agree, Earthless.
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 2:45:03 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
Defenders of these "pulpit pimps" love to mis-use "Touch not God's anointed"
I wrote a perspective on that a few years back... I probably have shared it here when this topic comes up. But you're right that is used incorrectly by those that want to defend their idols at all costs.
It was a classic one liner from Benny Hinn.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 3:04:26 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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Moving this to the feedback folder.
From the TheChurch folder description:
quote:
Discuss issues and questions about denominations, religions, or alleged false teachers.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 4:10:26 PM
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lw9
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quote:
AoibhinnGrainne: Thank you for correcting me, in bold face and in colour, no less...
I honestly do not understand what you expect from this forum. You made a statement that was not correct, so I provided the scriptural answer. Simple stuff. Was I just supposed to nod my head up and down in agreement with you??
I have always used blue to quote scriptures, and I have always bolded the applicable parts when I felt it was important to do so. My use of the color blue was not some sort of secret hidden agenda against you personally. From your many posts so far, you seem to actively look for reasons to take offense at anyone who does not agree with you.
quote:
Because, golly gee, Christians can and are brainwashed!!!
Yes, Christians can be deceived and brainwashed, and deception can be very subtle. That's how it works. Why do you think thousands upon thousands flock to TBN, GodTV, Latter Rain ministries, false teachers, false apostles, false prophets, false signs and wonders, and every other false movement out there. It is not an exaggeration to say that false teachers and false movements are infiltrating at an alarming rate, and a great part of the responsibility lies right on the shoulders of those who support and defend them. If it wasn't possible for Christians to be deceived, why on earth do you think the Bible spends so much time warning us about deception, false teachers, and apostasy?
2 Thess 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [day of the Lord] will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.
2 Tim 3:12 And indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. 13 But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
Acts 20:29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.
Rom 16:17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naïve people.
Matt 24:4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.”
2 Pet 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them – bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up.
1 Tim 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
It's important to note that the Bible doesn't say Christians *might* be deceived by false teachers. It says many *WILL* be deceived by false teachers. That is why we must guard ourselves with the truth and help others to do the same.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 5/1/2008 8:55:26 PM >
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 6:25:53 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
Or just a "Gossip Forum"? Examine and analyse all the thread titles. According to Scripture "church" is for edification (building up the saints).
Perhaps a "False Teachers & Heresies Forum" is overdue?
Your observations will be beneficial.
Yes, I think it's definately a gossip and slander forum and it's not a forum that the young faith should ever come visit. There young faith would have a difficult time surviving the unbelief that is rampant.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 6:31:37 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: AoibhinnGrainne
Frankly, it's gossip and very close to slander. Would we be as publicly strident in our opinions if we weren't behind the curtain of our internet anonymity???
It's not gossip to warn fellow Christians about wolves in sheep clothing. Nor is it slander to call a wolf a wolf.
And, in fact, many of us are bold outside the realm of the internet. This afternoon I am giving a presentation in class (I go to a Bible school) which mentions people like Osteen and Jakes.
quote:
So, yes, an apologetics/polemics thread might be nice. Then The Church can get back to fellowshipping and edifying one another...
Truth is always edifying, even if it makes one uncomfortable. Edification does not mean feeling good. . .
So making people 'feel' bad is then the badge of truth? And tearing people's faith down with arguing is a guise for edification?
Wow, I hope you're correct in going around and pointing out brothers and sisters on and off the internet as false brethren. I'd hate to be in your shoes if you were incorrect on even one point.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 9:27:32 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
So making people 'feel' bad is then the badge of truth? And tearing people's faith down with arguing is a guise for edification?
Wow, I hope you're correct in going around and pointing out brothers and sisters on and off the internet as false brethren. I'd hate to be in your shoes if you were incorrect on even one point.
Did I say that?
I said truth can be uncomfortable and unpleasant, even when spoken in love.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 10:32:17 PM
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AoibhinnGrainne
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And now let's read, the rest of the Scriptures...
~ 2 Thessalonians 2:1- 7 But in connection with the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah and our gathering together to meet him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be easily shaken in your thinking or anxious because of a spirit or a spoken message or a letter supposedly from us claiming that the Day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way. For the Day will not come until after the Apostasy has come and the man who separates himself from Torah has been revealed, the one destined for doom. 4 He will oppose himself to everything that people call a god or make an object of worship; he will put himself above them all, so that he will sit in the Temple of God and proclaim that he himself is God. 5 Don't you remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, so that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For already this separating from Torah is at work secretly, but it will be secretly only until he who is restraining is out of the way.
~ 2 Timothy 3 Moreover, understand this: in the acharit-hayamim will come trying times. 2 People will be self-loving, money-loving, proud, arrogant, insulting, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, uncontrolled, brutal, hateful of good, 4 traitorous, headstrong, swollen with conceit, loving pleasure rather than God, 5 as they retain the outer form of religion but deny its power. Stay away from these people! 6 For some of them worm their way into homes and get control of weak-willed women who are heaped with sins and swayed by various impulses, 7 who are always learning but never able to come to full knowledge of the truth. 8 In the same way as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moshe, so also these people oppose the truth. They are people with corrupted minds, whose trust cannot pass the test. 9 However, they won't get very far; because everyone will see how stupid they are, just as happened with those two.
10 But you, you have closely followed my teaching, conduct, purpose in life, trust, steadfastness, love and perseverance - 11 as well as the persecutions and sufferings that came my way in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra. What persecutions I endured! Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12 And indeed, all who want to live a godly life united with the Messiah Yeshua will be persecuted, 13 while evil people and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving others and being deceived themselves. 14 But you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, recalling the people from whom you learned it; 15 and recalling too how from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which can give you the wisdom that leads to deliverance through trusting in Yeshua the Messiah. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is valuable for teaching the truth, convicting of sin, correcting faults and training in right living; 17 thus anyone who belongs to God may be fully equipped for every good work.
~ Acts 20:25-35 "Now, listen! I know that none of you people among whom I have gone about proclaiming the Kingdom will ever see me again. 26 Therefore, I testify on this day that I am innocent of the blood of all. 27 For I did not shrink from proclaiming to you the whole plan of God. 28 "Watch out for yourselves, and for all the flock in which the Ruach HaKodesh has placed you as leaders, to shepherd God's Messianic community, which he won for himself at the cost of his own Son's blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you; and they won't spare the flock. 30 Even from among your own number, men will arise and teach perversions of the truth, in order to drag away the talmidim after themselves. 31 So stay alert! Remember that for three years, night and day, with tears in my eyes, I never stopped warning you! 32 "And now I entrust you to the care of the Lord and to the message of his love and kindness, for it can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who have been set apart for God. 33 "I have not wanted for myself anyone's silver or gold or clothing. 34 You yourselves know that these hands of mine have provided not only for my own needs, but for the needs of my co-workers as well. 35 In everything I have given you an example of how, by working hard like this, you must help the weak, remembering the words of the Lord Yeshua himself, 'There is more happiness in giving than in receiving.'"
~ Romans 16:17-20 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put snares alongside the teaching in which you have been trained - keep away from them. 18 For men like these are not serving our Lord the Messiah but their own belly; by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the innocent. 19 For everyone has heard about your obedience; therefore I rejoice over you. However, I want you to be wise concerning good, but innocent concerning evil. 20 And God, the source of shalom, will soon crush the Adversary under your feet. The grace of our Lord Yeshua be with you.
~Matthew 24:1-14 As Yeshua left the Temple and was going away, his talmidim came and called his attention to its buildings. 2 But he answered them, "You see all these? Yes! I tell you, they will be totally destroyed -- not a single stone will be left standing!" 3 When he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the talmidim came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that you are coming, and that the `olam hazeh is ending?"
4 Yeshua replied: "Watch out! Don't let anyone fool you! 5 For many will come in my name, saying, `I am the Messiah!' and they will lead many astray. 6 You will hear the noise of wars nearby and the news of wars far off; see to it that you don't become frightened. Such things must happen, but the end is yet to come. 7 For peoples will fight each other, nations will fight each other, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various parts of the world; 8 all this is but the beginning of the `birth pains.' 9 At that time you will be arrested and handed over to be punished and put to death, and all peoples will hate you because of me. 10 At that time many will be trapped into betraying and hating each other, 11 many false prophets will appear and fool many people; 12 and many people's love will grow cold because of increased distance from Torah. 13 But whoever holds out till the end will be delivered. 14 And this Good News about the Kingdom will be announced throughout the whole world as a witness to all the Goyim. It is then that the end will come.
~2Peter 1:19-2:11 Yes, we have the prophetic Word made very certain. You will do well to pay attention to it as to a light shining in a dark, murky place, until the Day dawns and the Morning Star rises in your hearts. 20 First of all, understand this: no prophecy of Scripture is to be interpreted by an individual on his own; 21 for never has a prophecy come as a result of human willing - on the contrary, people moved by the Ruach HaKodesh spoke a message from God.
1 But among the people there were also false prophets, just as there will be false teachers among you. Under false pretenses they will introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and thus bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 Many will follow their debaucheries; and because of them, the true Way will be maligned.
3 In their greed they will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their punishment, decreed long ago, is not idle; their destruction is not asleep! 4 For God did not spare the angels who sinned; on the contrary, he put them in gloomy dungeons lower than Sh'ol to be held for judgment. 5 And he did not spare the ancient world; on the contrary, he preserved Noach, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, and brought the Flood upon a world of ungodly people. 6 And he condemned the cities of S'dom and 'Amora, reducing them to ashes and ruin, as a warning to those in the future who would live ungodly lives; 7 but he rescued Lot, a righteous man who was distressed by the debauchery of those unprincipled people; 8 for the wicked deeds which that righteous man saw and heard, as he lived among them, tormented his righteous heart day after day. 9 So the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and how to hold the wicked until the Day of Judgment while continuing to punish them, 10 especially those who follow their old natures in lust for filth and who despise authority. Presumptuous and self-willed, these false teachers do not tremble at insulting angelic beings; 11 whereas angels, though stronger and more powerful, do not bring before the Lord an insulting charge against them.
~1Timothy 4:1-10 The Spirit expressly states that in the acharit-hayamim some people will apostatize from the faith by paying attention to deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come from the hypocrisy of liars whose own consciences have been burned, as if with a red-hot branding iron. 3 They forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods which God created to be eaten with thanksgiving by those who have come to trust and to know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing received with thanksgiving needs to be rejected, 5 because the word of God and prayer make it holy.
6 If you present all this to the brothers, you will be serving the Messiah Yeshua well; it will show that you have digested the words of the faith and of the good teaching which you have followed. 7 But refuse godless bubbe-meises, and exercise yourself in godliness. 8 For although physical exercise does have some value, godliness is valuable for everything, since it holds promise both for the present life and for the life to come. 9 Here is a statement you can trust, one that fully deserves to be accepted 10 (indeed, it is for this that we toil and strive): we have our hope set on a living God who is the deliverer of all humanity, especially of those who trust.
~2Timothy 4:1-8 I solemnly charge you before God and the Messiah Yeshua, who will judge the living and the dead when he appears and establishes his Kingdom: 2 proclaim the Word! Be on hand with it whether the time seems right or not. Convict, censure and exhort with unfailing patience and with teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not have patience for sound teaching, but will cater to their passions and gather around themselves teachers who say whatever their ears itch to hear. 4 Yes, they will stop listening to the truth, but will turn aside to follow myths. 5 But you, remain steady in every situation, endure suffering, do the work that a proclaimer of the Good News should, and do everything your service to God requires. 6 For as for me, I am already being poured out on the altar; yes, the time for my departure has arrived. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 All that awaits me now is the crown of righteousness which the Lord, "the Righteous Judge," will award to me on that Day - and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for him to appear.
I am NOT disagreeing with the need to be on guard against false teachers. I am disagreeing with the METHOD of doing so. I am disagreeing with folk making their LIVING from doing so.
Capisce?
One more bit of Scripture (more than a slice-and-dice):
~ Mark 13:14-23 "Now when you see the abomination that causes devastation standing where it ought not to be" (let the reader understand the allusion), "that will be the time for those in Y'hudah to escape to the hills. 15 If someone is on the roof, he must not go down and enter his house to take any of his belongings; 16 if someone is in the field, he must not turn back to get his coat. 17 What a terrible time it will be for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 18 Pray that it may not happen in winter. 19 For there will be worse trouble at that time than there has ever been from the very beginning, when God created the universe, until now; and there will be nothing like it again. 20 Indeed, if God had not limited the duration of the trouble, no one would survive; but for the sake of the elect, those whom he has chosen, he has limited it. 21 "At that time, if anyone says to you, `Look! Here's the Messiah!' or, `See, there he is!' -- don't believe him! 22 There will appear false Messiahs and false prophets performing signs and wonders for the purpose, if possible, of misleading the chosen. 23 But you, watch out! I have told you everything in advance!
In other words, the chosen (elect) of God cannot be mislead. 'Tain't possible. Regardless of what it looks like to you'all, and I certainly admire your due diligence in weeding out the heresies and the heretics, God's elect are safe.
Election...irresistible Grace...perseverance of the saints...
The elect cannot be mislead by false Messiahs and false prophets regardless of the signs and wonders they "perform". Satan can come as an angel of light and do whatever "magic" tricks he so chooses. The elect are safe.
So I, for one, am not going to run around like Chicken Little shouting about how the sky has fallen. This was prophesied; fore-ordained. God is sovereign. He is in control.
~Matthew 6:25-34 ~ "Therefore, I tell you, don't worry about your life -- what you will eat or drink; or about your body -- what you will wear. Isn't life more than food and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds flying about! They neither plant nor harvest, nor do they gather food into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Aren't you worth more than they are? Can any of you by worrying add a single hour to his life? "And why be anxious about clothing? Think about the fields of wild irises, and how they grow. They neither work nor spin thread, yet I tell you that not even Shlomo in all his glory was clothed as beautifully as one of these. If this is how God clothes grass in the field -- which is here today and gone tomorrow, thrown in an oven -- won't he much more clothe you? What little trust you have! "So don't be anxious, asking, `What will we eat?,' `What will we drink?' or `How will we be clothed?' For it is the pagans who set their hearts on all these things. Your heavenly Father knows you need them all. But seek first his Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Don't worry about tomorrow -- tomorrow will worry about itself! Today has enough tsuris already!"
Aoi.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/1/2008 10:39:09 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 1778
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quote:
Matthew 18 leading to Church discipline and an Ecumenical Council, if/when necessary.
These wolves aren't under the authority of any group so how would church disipline be applied. But isn't this issue which doctrines we will go to the cross for and which are window dressing?
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One hundred religious persons knit into a unity by careful organization do not constitute a church any more than eleven dead men make a football team.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 12:10:51 AM
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crankius
Posts: 4952
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quote:
I am NOT disagreeing with the need to be on guard against false teachers. I am disagreeing with the METHOD of doing so. I am disagreeing with folk making their LIVING from doing so.
You mean I can get paid for making posts about false teachers???
FRITZ, sign me up!
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
"One Another" Commands
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 12:26:31 AM
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lw9
Posts: 1281
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quote:
AoibhinnGrainne: The elect cannot be mislead by false Messiahs and false prophets regardless of the signs and wonders they "perform". Satan can come as an angel of light and do whatever "magic" tricks he so chooses. The elect are safe.
Based on the plethora of scriptures that debunk OSAS, I disagree but this is not the proper thread to discuss this issue.
quote:
So I, for one, am not going to run around like Chicken Little shouting about how the sky has fallen. This was prophesied; fore-ordained. God is sovereign. He is in control.
I don't see folks running around like Chicken Little and worrying that God is out of control. I see people engaged in discussions and comparisons of scripture in the interest of warning others against dangerous doctrines.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 12:42:14 AM
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map4
Posts: 52
Joined: 3/14/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
Rick Warren instructs pastors to "weed out" anyone in their church that objects to his Purpose Drivel model.
Defenders of these "pulpit pimps" love to mis-use "Touch not God's anointed"
I think some of you guys mis-use scripture quite a bit also. You tend to really push the envelope with the verse in 2 Tim 4:3 about people who have itching ears. You have a tendency to use that verse for EVERYONE who disagrees with your conclusions and for ALL christians who are ministered to by the leaders you don't like. You throw it around constantly, "Oh, yeah, they just have 'itching ears' and basically don't think for themselves, etc etc".
May I ask you guys a question? Do the teachers you listen to make you feel bad? Do they make you feel like a miserable worm who must grovel around every day constantly repenting? Or do they teach things that help to make you ultimately stronger and happier in your walk with Christ? How do you know you don't just have 'itching ears' and aren't listening to these guys for the wrong reasons?
It really goes both ways. You want people to respect the things you say yet you don't respect anyone else's opinion that is different from your own.
Very well said.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 12:52:32 AM
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sue244
Posts: 332
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Colorado
Status: online
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quote:
May I ask you guys a question? Do the teachers you listen to make you feel bad? Do they make you feel like a miserable worm who must grovel around every day constantly repenting? Or do they teach things that help to make you ultimately stronger and happier in your walk with Christ? How do you know you don't just have 'itching ears' and aren't listening to these guys for the wrong reasons?
I listen to teachers that focus on the Holiness of God. And let me tellyou the more I realize how Holy God is, the more I realize how wreched and sinful I am. The more I realize how sinful I am the more meaning I find in Romans 5:6-8
6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
It just blows my mind that Christ would die for such a wrech as I. And I love Him more and more because of that.
Frankly if I don't feel bad, and realize I have something to work on when I walk out of church then something is wrong.
_____________________________
"It is a remarkable fact that all the heresies which have arisen in the Christian Church have had a decided tendency to 'dishonor God and to flatter man.'"
Spurgen
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 12:53:43 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1980
Status: offline
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The proper way to evaluate the content of the "Church Forum" is to compare it with the content of the Epistles (which were written to churches).
I would guess that probably no more than 20% of the content of the epistles was devoted to False Teachers and their teachings, while 80% of their content was to teach God's truth to the saints (the famous 80/20 rule).
The "Church Forum" as it now stands is the reverse, and Church truth has gone by the boards. Therefore it would be best to devote a separate forum to "False Teachers" and retain the "Church Forum" for Church truth (and there is much to be learned).
Furthermore, as some have pointed out, in the "False Teachers" forum the focus should be primarily on the false teachings, not necessarily on the individual false teachers and their quirks (as gossipy as that is). Christ did not pick on individual Pharisees but on the errors of Pharasaism. We can learn a lesson from Him in this regard.
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 1:21:41 AM
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SD456
Posts: 1502
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sue
Frankly if I don't feel bad and realize I have something to work on when I walk out of church then something is wrong.
That's very interesting. I've not heard anyone in my christian walk who judges the correctness of teaching their receiving by how bad it makes them feel. You are the first.
So I'm supposing that's one of the things you feel that makes you safe from the 'itching ears' syndrome?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
Christ did not pick on individual Pharisees but on the errors of Pharasaism. We can learn a lesson from Him in this regard.
That is a very good point and one with which I agree and wish it could be that way.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 5/2/2008 1:28:01 AM >
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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