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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "False Teacher Forum"?
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 10:57:59 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1973
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quote:
My comment was for those who are basically demanding that we stop discussing false teachers, false doctrine, and everything else false in the church folder.
When the bulk of the discussions in the so-called "Church Forum" are focused on false teachers and their teachings, it is time to sit up and ask ourselves some hard questions.
If 80% of your church meetings were devoted to exposing false teachers and their teachings, you would get fed up fairly soon. Well, frankly I am fed up with seeing the majority of posts in the Church Forum discussing false teachers and their teachings ad nauseum, and I generally just ignore them.
There is in Scripture a very significant portion devoted to "Church Truth" dealing with both the Body of Christ at large and local assemblies, and how they should be consituted, what should be their function and ministry, how should their leadership be constituted, how they can be multiplied, and the role of every believer in the local assembly. This is the Doctrine of the Church. And there is not a whole lot of to be found here in relation to that.
Furthermore, by having a separate folder devoted to False Teachers & Heresies, those who wish to investigate them may do so to their hearts content, knowing that this is where discussions on deceptions are to be found.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/3/2008 1:02:49 AM
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lw9
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Ezra:
quote:
lw9: My comment was for those who are basically demanding that we stop discussing false teachers, false doctrine, and everything else false in the church folder.
quote:
Ezra: When the bulk of the discussions in the so-called "Church Forum" are focused on false teachers and their teachings, it is time to sit up and ask ourselves some hard questions.
Just so you know, I wasn't referring to you in my comment above. I took your posts to be questions rather than 'How dare you even discuss these things' type comments.
Crankius brought up an excellent point. There are 9 folders under Theology. Only one of those folders is earmarked as the place to discuss religion, denoms, and false teachers. 1 out of 9 doesn't equal 80%, nor does it equal an unbalanced Theology section. It's up to the administrator, of course, but I don't see the problem here. Why branch this off to yet another folder when the church folder *is* the place to discuss these things. If someone doesn't like discussing church issues such as false teachers or religion, there are 45 other folders to choose from, ya know? And if there are other topics you want to discuss, well, start a thread! Problem solved.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/3/2008 10:31:59 AM
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earthless
Posts: 4044
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From: where thawing pigeons reside...
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SD,
I personally know many of the Word of Faith people I constantly speak about - based on your own words, does that mean you don't have a problem with me testing their teachings in light of Scripture?
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/3/2008 7:34:44 PM
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wintery
Posts: 596
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
So then, I guess we shall just have to wait for the gross hidden sins that Joyner, Bickle, Meyers, Copeland, etc etc, have done to be revealed or have yet to do but surely will some day because they are 'evil' and have seared consciences. Ok.
No, we don't have to wait. If you were getting me, there's enough going on now that is visible in their lives and teaching that we should not be surprised if we learn of "gross hidden sins".
You asked me if I believed some had hidden sin and I plainly told you my answer. I'm slightly disappointed that you would try to expound upon it to the point that it is almost a ridicule of my honest answer. You are a talented writer and that is a waste of your ability.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
They are 'fair game'? I suppose you could call looking at their teachings as fair game for all to judge for themselves. But I wouldn't consider bashing and mocking not only their characters but those brethren who listen to them, as being in the 'fair game' arena. I just don't think Jesus would agree with that. Especially when you guys never hold up the scriptures that actually list the character traits in false teachers and objectively say, "Ok, does so and so truly show this trait in their private and public lives?" You guys completely ignore scripture in that arena.
I can't help but notice you refer to those who buy into the alleged false teachers as "brethren", while those you disagree with on this forum are "you guys".
As I indicated earlier the only "moral problem", which is not what it is, is the refusal to accept the alleged false teachers. One should not choose to align themselves or identify themselves so much with a teacher or teachers that the only result of seeing their teaching examined is a determination to find fault with those who point out that teacher's errors. It begins to approach what I was taught in Sociology was the "I'm okay, you are not okay" mindset.
Consider that the Church folder has the disclaimer "alleged false teacher" in the description. I've always considered that we were under that umbrella, and it isn't possible to examine if something is false if it cannot be "alleged". Ezra, in preferring there be a "False Teacher discussion" folder has not indicated that he thinks otherwise on the "alleged false teachers" but prefers not to discuss them as "Church".
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"There is no work better than to please God; to pour water, to wash dishes, to be a cobbler, or an apostle, all are one as touching the deed, to please God."-William Tyndale
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/3/2008 10:06:40 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1502
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
SD,
I personally know many of the Word of Faith people I constantly speak about - based on your own words, does that mean you don't have a problem with me testing their teachings in light of Scripture?
I've never had a problem with people testing things against scripture. What I have a problem with is the name call and denigration that goes along with it. And I have a problem with not using ALL of scripture to test the character of said 'false' teachers.
I believe there is also a problem when people disagree with the conclusions that some of you come to and some of you make remarks that those people just, 'refuse to see the truth,' or are just 'gullible' like so many others, etc etc. There are far worse things that you guys say. There is a possibility that mature christians shall come to different conclusions than you even when reading the exact same verses.
But even you are unable to talk about teachings without making denigrading remarks - bozos, pimps, hucksters, liars, etc, the name calling from everyone is ridiculous and in no way allows me to respect your opinions as I know you would desire others to do. I know I desire that others would respect my opinion even though they heartily would disagree with it.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/3/2008 10:17:04 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1502
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Wintery
As I indicated earlier the only "moral problem", which is not what it is, is the refusal to accept the alleged false teachers. One should not choose to align themselves or identify themselves so much with a teacher or teachers that the only result of seeing their teaching examined is a determination to find fault with those who point out that teacher's errors.
You have missed completely everything that I said. I find no fault with people wanting to look at teachings with scripture and converse together about it. I find fault with the denigration of character and name-calling. There is a HUGE problem with that. Something that I don't believe most of you are able to stop doing, as you have proved it over and over. That behavior has absolutely nothing to do with finding 'error' in some teaching.
There is no problem at all if you wish to not accept a person's teachings. I have never said that there is. And I've definately never said there is a 'moral problem' in regards to someone not accepting a teacher. We all have the right to not listen to someone if we choose.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/3/2008 11:06:46 PM
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wintery
Posts: 596
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From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
You have missed completely everything that I said. I find no fault with people wanting to look at teachings with scripture and converse together about it. I find fault with the denigration of character and name-calling. There is a HUGE problem with that. Something that I don't believe most of you are able to stop doing, as you have proved it over and over. That behavior has absolutely nothing to do with finding 'error' in some teaching.
There is no problem at all if you wish to not accept a person's teachings. I have never said that there is. And I've definately never said there is a 'moral problem' in regards to someone not accepting a teacher. We all have the right to not listen to someone if we choose.
Sorry, but I just can't fit into the Henry Gibson style of prophecying. Rebukes don't come with candy and flowers. Since you haven't given me any examples of what you're talking about, that crosses the line, then I have to believe it's either a preference of style or just a last-ditch attempt to stop the criticism of teachers you follow.
I'm still listening, though.
_____________________________
"There is no work better than to please God; to pour water, to wash dishes, to be a cobbler, or an apostle, all are one as touching the deed, to please God."-William Tyndale
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/3/2008 11:18:19 PM
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Kath
Posts: 16233
Joined: 2/28/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I find fault with the denigration of character and name-calling. There is a HUGE problem with that. Something that I don't believe most of you are able to stop doing, as you have proved it over and over.
You need to stop making such remarks, it's a TOS 6 violation.
Here are just a few examples from this thread...
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
No, you guys go FAR beyond just warning people. You guys actually play judge and jury and condemn people. And you do it right and left.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I think some of you guys mis-use scripture quite a bit also. You tend to really push the envelope with the verse in 2 Tim 4:3 about people who have itching ears. You have a tendency to use that verse for EVERYONE who disagrees with your conclusions and for ALL christians who are ministered to by the leaders you don't like.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
If you can actually start a thread where none of you mock, name call, denigrate, attempt to humiliate the people, but rather stick to the teachings of that teacher or church, than I'd be up for it. It'll be pretty hard for you. You won't be able to say anything negative about that person's character, only speak about their teaching. I bet it can't be done. quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
Oh, well, I though I'd try. Never mind. The point is taken. It is an impossibility to do as you guys in 4 posts and 3 dings have so very well proven. quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
Never mind, though. You guys have proved my point and I do not wish to argue with people who continually bash other people's character and motives in an attempt to 'prove' that they are right. That makes you NOT right IMO.
Sincerely
Kath
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< Message edited by Kath -- 5/3/2008 11:39:00 PM >
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/4/2008 9:06:38 AM
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earthless
Posts: 4044
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where thawing pigeons reside...
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
SD,
I personally know many of the Word of Faith people I constantly speak about - based on your own words, does that mean you don't have a problem with me testing their teachings in light of Scripture?
I've never had a problem with people testing things against scripture. What I have a problem with is the name call and denigration that goes along with it. And I have a problem with not using ALL of scripture to test the character of said 'false' teachers.
I believe there is also a problem when people disagree with the conclusions that some of you come to and some of you make remarks that those people just, 'refuse to see the truth,' or are just 'gullible' like so many others, etc etc. There are far worse things that you guys say. There is a possibility that mature christians shall come to different conclusions than you even when reading the exact same verses.
But even you are unable to talk about teachings without making denigrading remarks - bozos, pimps, hucksters, liars, etc, the name calling from everyone is ridiculous and in no way allows me to respect your opinions as I know you would desire others to do. I know I desire that others would respect my opinion even though they heartily would disagree with it.
We could argue the point someone made earlier that Jesus and the disciples/apostles used much harsher language when dealing with the same.
BUT...
Fair enough - in that do you also feel this same way about Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, etc that have used much harsher language, cursed with death, cursed our families with sickness and death, said we should die of a gun shot wound? All because we dare question their teachings?
Why don't I see you being bothered by that?
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/4/2008 3:44:23 PM
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Kath
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You know, we already have threads to discuss the topic of WOF, Hagin, Copeland, etc. This thread is to discuss Ezra's question. In case you all forgot I have reposted his questions below...
Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "False Teacher Forum"? Or just a "Gossip Forum"? Examine and analyse all the thread titles. According to Scripture "church" is for edification (building up the saints).
Perhaps a "False Teachers & Heresies Forum" is overdue?
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/4/2008 4:54:17 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4044
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where thawing pigeons reside...
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Yes, but one of SD's complaints is that we speak against those she likes. My question is why isn't she bothered by their death curses and such towards us?
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/5/2008 1:19:14 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7463
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I'll start a new thread in the Church forum. It'll be about the Word of Faith doctrine and the rules of the game will be in the OP.
We already have one. Don't need another one.
Here's the link: Click Here
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/5/2008 1:20:31 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7463
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I just realized that if it's just about Word of Faith doctrine that it would go into the doctrine folder. So let's talk about something that would go in the Church forum. How about Joyce Meyer. Let's talk about her teachings and the rules will be posted.
We've got one of those too:
Click Here
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/5/2008 1:24:33 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7463
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From: New Jersey
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Ezra,
Thank you for taking the time to raise your concerns.
The issue will be reviewed.
I'm closing this thread because it is turning into yet another thread about the topic of various false teachers.
We have a thread for discussing those topics and we don't need this one devoted to that.
Thanks again, thread closed.
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