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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/7/2008 9:34:17 PM
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prophet
Posts: 526
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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Was Gamaliel inspired? 
Shalom ye all....
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/7/2008 11:12:07 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2752
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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quote:
6. The Ordinances of the Church
Baptism in Water
The ordinance of baptism by immersion is commanded by the Scriptures. All who repent and believe on Christ as Saviour and Lord are to be baptized. Thus they declare to the world that they have died with Christ and that they also have been raised with Him to walk in newness of life.
Matthew 28:19 [KJV/NIV]
Mark 16:16 [KJV/NIV]
Acts 10:47,48 [KJV/NIV]
Romans 6:4 [KJV/NIV]
The above is from the AOG website. Todd made a circus out of a church ordinance.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/7/2008 11:22:01 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2845
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
6. The Ordinances of the Church
Baptism in Water
The ordinance of baptism by immersion is commanded by the Scriptures. All who repent and believe on Christ as Saviour and Lord are to be baptized. Thus they declare to the world that they have died with Christ and that they also have been raised with Him to walk in newness of life.
Matthew 28:19 [KJV/NIV]
Mark 16:16 [KJV/NIV]
Acts 10:47,48 [KJV/NIV]
Romans 6:4 [KJV/NIV]
The above is from the AOG website. Todd made a circus out of a church ordinance.
Hard to justify infant baptism with this Ordinance; If the AOG want to endorse this man's ministry maybe they should change their ordinances to align with his doctrine.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 2:25:12 PM
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mcleod
Posts: 1066
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline
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4ChristLove,
quote:
Can somone tell me what Sheek-a-boomba means?
I believe the phrase came from Flip Wilson on his television show on NBC. As his butt would go around and around and then made a move as to knock the person away.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 2:28:08 PM
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mcleod
Posts: 1066
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline
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Also that phrase was quite popular back then. Which maybe weird -boy Todd is trying to make a come-back with it today.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 3:18:09 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1214
Status: offline
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Re baptism video; while not endorsing the frenetic baptism, my impression on a couple of things pointed out here:
The baby baptism was a remark that followed a baby inadvertently getting wet.
TB didn't baptize in the name of bam but rather interrupted himself before finishing his own sentence, "in the name of the Father the Son and..."
Many point out that emotional appeal, bandwagon appeal, plays into a gathering like Lakeland, yet the detractors, alarm sounding, watchmen etc also use emotional appeal and bandwagon appeal in the effort to discuss TB and company.
It hurts your cause. Stick to facts, pure facts not distorted facts, and scripture. Sure scripture and doctrine have been a part of the discussion, but then they are set aside in order to share the emotional reactions and opinions of Lakeland. The message gets lost and the detractor emotions are a turn off to those that might otherwise understand a point you were trying to make. You know, those people that you think need your perspective.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 3:21:33 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1636
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
TB didn't baptize in the name of bam but rather interrupted himself before finishing his own sentence, "in the name of the Father the Son and..."
That's still really disturbing to me.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Many point out that emotional appeal, bandwagon appeal, plays into a gathering like Lakeland, yet the detractors, alarm sounding, watchmen etc also use emotional appeal and bandwagon appeal in the effort to discuss TB and company.
It hurts your cause. Stick to facts, pure facts not distorted facts, and scripture. Sure scripture and doctrine have been a part of the discussion, but then they are set aside in order to share the emotional reactions and opinions of Lakeland. The message gets lost and the detractor emotions are a turn off to those that might otherwise understand a point you were trying to make. You know, those people that you think need your perspective.
There's been more than ample scriptural and theological discussion here. When it comes down to it, though, what this guy is doing is so far beyond the pale that you just can't help but be emotional about it.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 3:35:15 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 220
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Re baptism video; while not endorsing the frenetic baptism, my impression on a couple of things pointed out here:
The baby baptism was a remark that followed a baby inadvertently getting wet.
TB didn't baptize in the name of bam but rather interrupted himself before finishing his own sentence, "in the name of the Father the Son and..."
Many point out that emotional appeal, bandwagon appeal, plays into a gathering like Lakeland, yet the detractors, alarm sounding, watchmen etc also use emotional appeal and bandwagon appeal in the effort to discuss TB and company.
It hurts your cause. Stick to facts, pure facts not distorted facts, and scripture. Sure scripture and doctrine have been a part of the discussion, but then they are set aside in order to share the emotional reactions and opinions of Lakeland. The message gets lost and the detractor emotions are a turn off to those that might otherwise understand a point you were trying to make. You know, those people that you think need your perspective.
I agree that the manipulative editing and emotional presentations do a disservice to the truth, and actually makes those opposing the truth dig in harder. THere is another video, that shows an unedited "clip" that is just as disturbing, but doesn't present you the worst all back to back. It certainly doesn't show everything.
As to Todd "baptizing' no he didn't say in the name of Bam. But Bam followed all. Sometimes forgot was he was saying adding "bam" sometimes he forgot to include all three persons of the God head. Of what I saw of those being baptized, very few were "new converts." I saw at least three asking for healing and getting none. But there is going to be a mix of responses. I count the emotionally manipulative peaces to be 'works of flesh' which are really unneeded.
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 3:47:29 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2845
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peacebringer
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Re baptism video; while not endorsing the frenetic baptism, my impression on a couple of things pointed out here:
The baby baptism was a remark that followed a baby inadvertently getting wet.
TB didn't baptize in the name of bam but rather interrupted himself before finishing his own sentence, "in the name of the Father the Son and..."
Many point out that emotional appeal, bandwagon appeal, plays into a gathering like Lakeland, yet the detractors, alarm sounding, watchmen etc also use emotional appeal and bandwagon appeal in the effort to discuss TB and company.
It hurts your cause. Stick to facts, pure facts not distorted facts, and scripture. Sure scripture and doctrine have been a part of the discussion, but then they are set aside in order to share the emotional reactions and opinions of Lakeland. The message gets lost and the detractor emotions are a turn off to those that might otherwise understand a point you were trying to make. You know, those people that you think need your perspective.
I agree that the manipulative editing and emotional presentations do a disservice to the truth, and actually makes those opposing the truth dig in harder. THere is another video, that shows an unedited "clip" that is just as disturbing, but doesn't present you the worst all back to back. It certainly doesn't show everything.
As to Todd "baptizing' no he didn't say in the name of Bam. But Bam followed all. Sometimes forgot was he was saying adding "bam" sometimes he forgot to include all three persons of the God head. Of what I saw of those being baptized, very few were "new converts." I saw at least three asking for healing and getting none. But there is going to be a mix of responses. I count the emotionally manipulative peaces to be 'works of flesh' which are really unneeded.
I would also encourage you to look at the unedited videos (there are two that I have been able to find i.e. part 1 and part 2) they are about 10 minutes each, and they are equally disturbing. Many of the same clips shown in the shorter video are seen in the longer ones, and it is clear that the shorter clips are an accurate reflection of what is seen in the longer clips.
As far as the baby just inadvertently getting wet, I suppose that is possible; however, the video clearly shows the baby being removed from the pool, and it didn't appear "inadvertent" to me.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 3:48:02 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3587
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
As to Todd "baptizing' no he didn't say in the name of Bam.
I'm confident that everyone who viewed the clip was aware of it.
Yet, at the same time, bam is used so much by TB that it can be
seen as him baptizing in the name of bam, abstractly.
A few "minor" edging from the straight and narrow perfect path doesn't
let Todd off the hook.
The shoom-beeka-whatever still seems like Todd is proposing he's praying
in tongues. But it's obviously a phrase he just keep saying over and over,
because it "works."
I can overlook "minor" works of the flesh; but cannot over look the works-of-evil.
Jesus said a "wicked" and "adulterous" generation seeks after signs and wonders.
'wicked' comes from a word like the wick of a candle. Twisted, or, twisting.
That's what Todd does. Twists and perverts. Jesus says that is plain "wickedness."
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 3:52:11 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3587
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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To view Todd baptizing again in case we need a refresher.
wet baby
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 4:05:44 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3587
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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Another ten minute version
here
THE WAY IT SHOULD BE DONE!
spa-lash
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 4:20:18 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1809
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Re baptism video; while not endorsing the frenetic baptism, my impression on a couple of things pointed out here:
The baby baptism was a remark that followed a baby inadvertently getting wet.
TB didn't baptize in the name of bam but rather interrupted himself before finishing his own sentence, "in the name of the Father the Son and..."
Many point out that emotional appeal, bandwagon appeal, plays into a gathering like Lakeland, yet the detractors, alarm sounding, watchmen etc also use emotional appeal and bandwagon appeal in the effort to discuss TB and company.
It hurts your cause. Stick to facts, pure facts not distorted facts, and scripture. Sure scripture and doctrine have been a part of the discussion, but then they are set aside in order to share the emotional reactions and opinions of Lakeland. The message gets lost and the detractor emotions are a turn off to those that might otherwise understand a point you were trying to make. You know, those people that you think need your perspective.
Corne, your comments are fine, but the speaker who filled in for Todd Saturday night, Jeff somebody, specifically said that Todd had baptised in the name of bam-bam, and that he was sure they were going to get some comments from that. He even went so far as to say that he thought that one day when they got a translation of bam-bam, it was going to be "Jesus". So the idea that Todd baptised in the name of bam-bam comes from the stage at Lakeland.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 4:28:51 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3587
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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WOW! That's unbelievable wintery.
They know what a translation for bam-bam will be.
What cover-up; what twisting.
But the people like it because they want it so. (Jer.)
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 4:46:08 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6133
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
TB didn't baptize in the name of bam but rather interrupted himself before finishing his own sentence, "in the name of the Father the Son and..."
Todd Bentley saying "BAM/etc" is supposed to be him "speaking in tongues". Which if it is a genuine move of the Holy Spirit, would be Him giving the utterances. Following that logic, why would God interrupt Himself during a baptism or period?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Many point out that emotional appeal, bandwagon appeal, plays into a gathering like Lakeland, yet the detractors, alarm sounding, watchmen etc also use emotional appeal and bandwagon appeal in the effort to discuss TB and company.
As humans that is normal indeed. But the foundation of this entire thread has been the testing of Todd Bentley's teachings, claims and antics in light of Scripture.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
It hurts your cause. Stick to facts, pure facts not distorted facts, and scripture. Sure scripture and doctrine have been a part of the discussion, but then they are set aside in order to share the emotional reactions and opinions of Lakeland. The message gets lost and the detractor emotions are a turn off to those that might otherwise understand a point you were trying to make.
They are more than welcome to focus on the hundreds of posts in this thread alone that have done just that.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
You know, those people that you think need your perspective.
Are you one of them? Are you just playing "Devil's advocate"?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 4:48:04 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6133
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Re baptism video; while not endorsing the frenetic baptism, my impression on a couple of things pointed out here:
The baby baptism was a remark that followed a baby inadvertently getting wet.
TB didn't baptize in the name of bam but rather interrupted himself before finishing his own sentence, "in the name of the Father the Son and..."
Many point out that emotional appeal, bandwagon appeal, plays into a gathering like Lakeland, yet the detractors, alarm sounding, watchmen etc also use emotional appeal and bandwagon appeal in the effort to discuss TB and company.
It hurts your cause. Stick to facts, pure facts not distorted facts, and scripture. Sure scripture and doctrine have been a part of the discussion, but then they are set aside in order to share the emotional reactions and opinions of Lakeland. The message gets lost and the detractor emotions are a turn off to those that might otherwise understand a point you were trying to make. You know, those people that you think need your perspective.
Corne, your comments are fine, but the speaker who filled in for Todd Saturday night, Jeff somebody, specifically said that Todd had baptised in the name of bam-bam, and that he was sure they were going to get some comments from that. He even went so far as to say that he thought that one day when they got a translation of bam-bam, it was going to be "Jesus". So the idea that Todd baptised in the name of bam-bam comes from the stage at Lakeland.
I missed that video - so that more than settles that!
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 4:49:34 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1809
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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Here's the guy I was talking about, Jeff Garvin on Todd's site.
Be sure not to miss Jeff Garvin's heroic cartoon pic on his own site. *(for those who always think I'm a smart aleck, okay, you write the caption for that pic.)
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 6:18:16 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1636
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: online
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quote:
As to Todd "baptizing' no he didn't say in the name of Bam. But Bam followed all. Sometimes forgot was he was saying adding "bam" sometimes he forgot to include all three persons of the God head. Of what I saw of those being baptized, very few were "new converts."
To me, this is still a huge deal. It illustrates quite well where he wants the attention - on HIM! It shows absolutely no respect or reference for the source of his supposed power - anyone moving in the Holy Spirit could and should be 100% deferring to the Holy Spirit in awe and constantly praising God for the work taking place - NOT gathering attention and followers to himself. It makes me sick.
I've seen God move miraculously many times and I know Godly men and women FULL of the Holy Spirit - Todd Bentley's side show is nothing like those times and he is nothing like the mighty men and women of God I've been blessed to know. He's an absolute farce.
Again, I have to thank all of you here who are posting these clips and explaining so well the ridiculous things Bentley says and does. I watched the one night and don't care to see any more but a couple of the clips here I have watched and really, right now, my heart is broken. I've gone from shock to outrage to dissinterest and now it all just makes me sad. The spectacle of those people being "baptized" is absurd. I just have to feel sorry for those people.
When my friend first invited dh to go to this with him, if I hadn't found the info I found coming here (and since), I don't know that I'd have really known any better - I probably wouldn't have taken the time to look into it enough.
Now that Pastor says he's going (I don't know when but I assume he meant some time this week), could you guys - earthless, wintery, etc. just agree with me that he would go with a supernatural discernment and his eyes wide open. It makes me nauseous to think of my Pastor putting himself in the path of this "ministry". I need God's will to be done here because I've struggled so long at our church. This will tell, I think - if my family needs to move on, if Pastor buys into this stuff it will seal the deal.
< Message edited by csl7037 -- 7/8/2008 6:39:00 PM >
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 6:30:10 PM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 230
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Canada (The True North Strong and Free!)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Re baptism video; while not endorsing the frenetic baptism, my impression on a couple of things pointed out here:
The baby baptism was a remark that followed a baby inadvertently getting wet.
TB didn't baptize in the name of bam but rather interrupted himself before finishing his own sentence, "in the name of the Father the Son and..."
Many point out that emotional appeal, bandwagon appeal, plays into a gathering like Lakeland, yet the detractors, alarm sounding, watchmen etc also use emotional appeal and bandwagon appeal in the effort to discuss TB and company.
It hurts your cause. Stick to facts, pure facts not distorted facts, and scripture. Sure scripture and doctrine have been a part of the discussion, but then they are set aside in order to share the emotional reactions and opinions of Lakeland. The message gets lost and the detractor emotions are a turn off to those that might otherwise understand a point you were trying to make. You know, those people that you think need your perspective.
Corne,
Thanks for this post... I agree with you 100% and felt the same thing when I watched that video... Todd was not endorsing or suggesting that infants can or should be baptised, the baby just inadvertently got wet. It's unfortunate that a lot of (especially on youtube) the stuff attacking what's happening in Lakeland is the shock and awe emotionalism type appeals, rather than just relying on defending the truth of God's Word and pointing out the error from the Scriptures. Note - this is a general statement, and it is true that there are good solid believers in this forum who are raising valid, intelligent Biblical issues to do with Lakeland.
This forum is a great place where people can bring forth their concerns - in light of Scripture - and defend the truth of God's Word, and expose that which is false. As we do that, let's be careful to not be found guilty of twisting things or taking things out of context ourselves. Amen?
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 6:48:03 PM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 230
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Canada (The True North Strong and Free!)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Another ten minute version
here
THE WAY IT SHOULD BE DONE!
spa-lash
Lapidoth,
Here's another baptismal video I really liked... click HERE.
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 7:09:44 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1214
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
TB didn't baptize in the name of bam but rather interrupted himself before finishing his own sentence, "in the name of the Father the Son and..."
Todd Bentley saying "BAM/etc" is supposed to be him "speaking in tongues". Which if it is a genuine move of the Holy Spirit, would be Him giving the utterances. Following that logic, why would God interrupt Himself during a baptism or period?
An odd statement from you as you have quoted many times the; "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets"
quote:
Are you one of them? Are you just playing "Devil's advocate"?
Whoever "them" are.
I think a devil's advocate is often good for a discussion.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 7:17:00 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6133
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
An odd statement from you as you have quoted many times the; "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets"
I have shared that passage perhaps, yes. But that does not do away with my point. How do you reconcile the problem that if someone is supposedly speaking in tongues that God would interrupt Himself and cause confusion?
And as to the passage - Todd is documented false prophet. So no dice.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Whoever "them" are.
Self-professing Christians who believe Todd Bentley is a true teacher of God's Word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
I think a devil's advocate is often good for a discussion.
It is, but I am asking you direct questions about a very serious and current subject matter.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 7:25:56 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1214
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
An odd statement from you as you have quoted many times the; "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets"
I have shared that passage perhaps, yes. But that does not do away with my point. How do you reconcile the problem that if someone is supposedly speaking in tongues that God would interrupt Himself and cause confusion?
And as to the passage - Todd is documented false prophet. So no dice.
You are playing two angles here. If a person was legitimately speaking in tongues, and in control of the experience then it would be possible for the person to break to stop, or to be distracted etc. To say that God would not interrupt and cause confusion does not fit this scenario. You are offering a contradiction. Bentley being a false prophet/true prophet has no bearing on whether or not your question is legit.
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