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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/14/2008 8:07:40 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6523
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
it is not the testing that I have a problem with it is the use of words against the person/people ....saying things like they deserve such and such etc...see what I mean...
we ARE to test and see what is GOD and what is not of GOD
but we are not to Slam the person...we need to have discernment who is of GOD and who is not and if they are not pray for them to see Truth and receive Salvation...
see my point
So you're problem with is with less than 5% of this threads posts? Gotcha.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/14/2008 8:46:12 PM
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UnknownPreacher
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Charismatics have waited a long time for something like this. There was no time for discernment. Once the fire was lit, it took the movement by storm.
Many good people started to throw their logs on the blaze, while others started to complain of the noxious fumes.
Many good people were (and still are) in denial that anything was wrong.
The testimonies of people being healed were enough to drown out the heresy hunters and the naysayers who started to uncover questionable doctrines, teachings and behaviours.
But then came the hype. The hyperbole. The spin doctoring.
Everything had to be BIGGER, BETTER, MORE AWESOME than before!!!!!
Resurrections were on the rise! A dead man comes back to life WHILE IN HIS CASKET AT THE FUNERAL HOME WITH HIS FAMILY PRESENT! Dead roses in peoples living rooms are said to came back to life!
What could be next!?!?
Then it came. The next level of the 'revival'. It was prophesied that Jesus himself was going to visit the outpouring! That he was going to step foot on the platform on a Saturday night!
Even Todd knew this was too much. He took the mic from GODTV's Wendy Alec and said it was a 'prophetic' visitation' not a literal one.
That's when it began to unravel.
Where was Jesus the whole time? Everyone thought he was there already...healing people, touching people...now he's going to come and visit? Huh?
It didn't work prophetically or physically.
Then came the media. They were egged on by Bentley himself. They came. They found nothing. Not one testimony could be verified. Not even one.
I told some folks I knew who said they knew of people who were actually healed at the meetings to come forward. They didn't.
Then Todd left.
Now the faith of many has suffered a blow similar to the one given to the Titanic. In the midst of the pride, the hype and the arrogance, the iceberg of selfishness has ripped an unseen gash through the untempered, brittle steel of charismatic immaturity.
Now the clean up begins.
Just like the RMS Carpathia did on that fateful night the Titanic was lost, pastors, the preachers, deacons and ministers must reach out to the fallen as fast as they can, in the hopes they can save some from drowning in the icy depths of bitterness and dissallusionment.
Charismatics may have waited a long time for something like this, but to qoute Charisma magazine editor J Lee Grady, "It wasn't supposed to end like this..."
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RE: A Discussion of Lakeland Florida and Todd Bentley - 8/14/2008 9:00:43 PM
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ChristopherJ007
Posts: 158
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From: Canada
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Unknown Preacher,
I read the article you reffered to from the charismamag forum, and wanted to share a quote from it for people here to ponder...
quote:
Can anything good come out of this?
That depends on how people respond. If the men assigned to oversee Bentley offer loving but firm correction, and if Bentley responds humbly to the process by stepping out of ministry for a season of rehabilitation, we could witness a healthy case of church discipline play out the way it is supposed to. If all those who were so eager to promote Bentley now rush just as fast to repent for their errors in judgment, then the rest of us could breathe a huge sigh of relief—and the credibility of our movement could be restored.
Selah...
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: A Discussion of Lakeland Florida and Todd Bentley - 8/14/2008 11:40:55 PM
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AlohaJoe
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While I believe that Bentley is essentially a fraud, I do agree with Teclils that we should be mindful to excercise love and kindness in all things, even while discussing societal predators (not that I’m necessarily suggesting people have done otherwise). The command to love our enemies is not an empty one, and we, no less than Bentley, are in desperate need of God’s restoring Love. It is certainly proper to exercise discernment and even fervently warn brothers and sisters of the wolves abroad, but even those words should be tempered with the gentle love of Christ. My own capacity for snark is gargantuan, so this is something of which I myself must be mindful. And forgive me, I can’t guarantee a complete absence of zingers myself :) .
That being said:
Though I’m not a psychologist, I do intend the following as a dispassionate psychological assessment, and not as hyperbolic rhetoric or as a moral indictment: I’m inclined to believe that Todd Bentley may be psychopathic, in the clinical/pathological sense of the term, or at the very least, malignantly narcissistic. Of course, as I’m not a psychologist, everything I say should be taken with some grains of salt. I have, however, done a fair amount of study on psychopathy.
Many psychologists believe malignant narcissism and psychopathy to be a part of the same spectrum of pathological narcissism, with pyschopathy being its most extreme manifestation. Robert Hare, arguably the leading authority on psychopathy, describes psychopaths as “intraspecies predators who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, sex and violence to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs. Lacking in conscience and empathy, they take what they want as do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without guilt or remorse”.
Psychopathy should not be confused with psychosis—psychopaths, unlike psychotics, are fully in touch with reality and can interact with it rationally and intelligently. Current psychology estimates that about one percent of the population is psychopathic. Despite portrayals in popular fiction, the majority of psychopaths are not criminals, or even violent, and many succeed in fast-paced and high-power careers (which reward psychopaths’ general fearlessness and lack of conscience). No small number of lawyers, high-finance professionals, media professionals, politicians and CEOs are psychopaths, according to experts. Psychopaths are also more highly represented in careers which give them power and control over others—sadly, for example, law enforcement tends to attract a relatively high number of psychopaths. Notably, Dr. Hare lists also religious leadership as represented by relatively high numbers of psychopaths.
Psychopaths, particularly those high in social cognition, can be devastatingly good manipulators, and are very often possessed of a deceptive (but usually superficial) charm. They essentially have no conscience, empathy or compassion, but can be very good at faking it (this is called shallow affect). They are often quick to make outrageous claims (often self-aggrandizing), because they do not recognize the risk of being disbelieved or caught for their fraudulence. An audience with a tendency to believe and hunger for the extraordinary (read: Christians) can be prime fodder for a psychopathic con man. Many a debunked evangelist/healer have shown this exceedingly. (see also: Peter Popoff and Marjoe Gortner)
The following is a list of symptoms which identify psychopaths and malignant narcissists. People who know about Todd Bentley, his history, and his “ministerial techniques” may draw some correlations:
• Grandiose sense of self-worth
• Superficial charm
• Criminal versatility
• Reckless disregard for the safety of self or others
• Impulse control problems
• Irresponsibility
• Inability to tolerate boredom
• Pathological narcissism
• Pathological lying
• Shallow affect (a display of emotion without emotions being felt)
• Deceitfulness/manipulativeness for personal gain or simple amusement
• Aggressive or violent tendencies, repeated physical fights or assaults on others
• Lack of empathy
• Lack of remorse, indifferent to or rationalizes having hurt or mistreated others
• A sense of extreme entitlement
• Lack of or diminished levels of anxiety/nervousness and other emotions
• Promiscuous sexual behavior, sexual deviancy
• Drug and alcohol abuse
We as Christians love a good redemption story, and are often quicker than many to give someone the benefit of the doubt when it comes to claims of repentance, even from horrific acts (and often quicker to condemn the unrepentant). Realistically, though, one has to be discerning, and while past behavior might not be enough in and of itself to discern a person’s present state, it is reasonable to take it into account, especially if that past behavior was particularly destructive. This is not a matter of moral judgment, but of practical discernment.
Todd Bentley, as many know, was convicted at age 15 of raping a 7-year old boy as part of a child-rape ring (investigative reports suggest there were more victims for which he wasn’t tried). We as Christians should of course forgive this sin and desire God’s love, mercy and compassion for him no less than we do for ourselves. This does not mean, though, that we can automatically assume Bentley hasn’t redirected that predatory nature in other ways. We can forgive someone who’s stolen from us seven times seventy times, but that doesn’t mean we’re obligated to believe that they won’t do it again—especially if the present behavior and the whole of the evidence leads us to be suspicious.
Psychologists such as Dr. Hare believe that punishment, therapy and behavior modification techniques only make psychopaths more cunning and effective at deception and manipulation, at hiding their true nature. They become much more savvy at understanding what behavior is “expected” of them by society, in terms of remorse, repentance, etc. Therapy is essentially a university and fitness center for psychopathic manipulators. Robert Hare himself confesses to having been fooled by psychopaths—for a while, at least. Bentley himself underwent three years of therapy.
In an interview posted by Bentley on his ministry website, he recalls a “demonic assault” on his mother which resulted in her broken arm (this is after he’d supposedly become a Christian). He admits that his own family, to this day, insists that it was he who assaulted her. It’s noteworthy that by his own admission, his relationship with his parents was a rather bumpy one. His mother is no longer living, so we can’t get her version of events. Todd’s casually violent tendencies continue, as he gets Christians to applaud, laugh at, and defend his assaults on innocent people in the name of God.
Besides his impulsive violent tendencies, I think his overall behavior and demeanor are consistent with psychopathy (or some degree of pathological, malignant narcissism). Notable to me is his relative lack of “compassionate” behavioral displays. He seems emotionally unmoved, for the most part, by many of the heartbreaking cases presented to him, treating them (in my humble assessment) as little more than unsuspecting players in his show. The examples are countless, but in one instance for example (at the 3:20 mark), after "slaying in the spirit" a girl who asks for healing prayer for her father's cancer, Bentley says mischievously, "you know, could we pick her back up again? I'm not done messing around with her yet" (this girl happened to clearly be in deep hypnosis, which Bentley almost certainly identified and decided to exploit). Absent in Bentley's behavior is any display of concern or empathy for her plight. Also, "Holy Ghost Laughter" gives Bentley a perfect out when it becomes too exhausting having to feign concern for extended periods. Conceivably, though, some might argue that he has no reason to be moved or saddened if he truly believes that God will heal a person.
In his Dateline interview, I find notable the nonchalance with which Bentley glosses over his sexual crime. Certainly it wouldn’t be something on which anyone would want to dwell, but one might think that true remorse would be rooted in, and express, some sadness for the profound harm inflicted upon the crime’s victim. A psychopath, who lacks empathy for others, might not understand this enough to know to express sadness for his victim’s pain. Bentley seems also rather evasive about his past, which is of course understandable (there are certainly things in my life and past which I’d much rather know one ever knew)—but beyond evasion, he tends to alter the details of his story, presumably to mitigate his complicity in the crime. In one interview he states that he committed the crime at 13 and was sentenced at 14. In the Dateline interview he states that he committed the crime at 13 and was sentenced at 15 (he was actually 14 when he committed the crime).
Interestingly, one of the things that gave me pause regarding Bentley's possible narcissistic pathology was the fact that he was apparently maintaining a marriage with children (though psychopaths get married all the time)--so I don't find the separation announcement surprising in the least.
I won’t prattle much more except to say that I feel Bentley’s case evidence, past and present, seems to display most of the above list of symptoms for psychopathy or malignant narcissism (we’ve all seen the Youtube clips, or in my case, guiltily watched the circus on GodTV). And again, I say none of this as any sort of moral indictment—we are all horribly depraved apart from God—but as an attemptedly dispassionate assessment which informs Bentley’s psychological state, sincerity and legitimacy (or lack thereof) as an evangelist and healer. As saddened as I am that intelligent, sophisticated, normally-discerning, God-loving friends of mine have traveled to Lakeland themselves and now endorse Bentley’s ministry, I truly say that I bear no anger or ill-will toward Todd Bentley, but rather a thankfulness that God’s grace has preserved me from any number of terrible paths. Who among us, if we had both Bentley’s exact same DNA (the truth is that genetics does impact behavioral tendencies) and childhood/upbringing, can confidently say that we wouldn’t have followed a similar path? Let us be thankful to God, and pray for His healing mercy upon Bentley (and his victims).
I also humbly confess the distinct possibility that I'm completely off-base in these assessments.
A couple links possibly worth checking out:
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/robert_hare/5.html (pages 5 and 10 being the most relevant)
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s1158704.htm
And while I generally prefer not to refer to Wikipedia as an authority, here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#cite_note-handbook-61
My previous post in this thread regarding the hypnotic techniques employed by many evangelists and faith healers:
http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_3378409/mpage_120/key_/tm.htm#3611105
edited for minor typos
< Message edited by AlohaJoe -- 8/15/2008 12:01:35 AM >
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RE: A Discussion of Lakeland Florida and Todd Bentley - 8/15/2008 8:05:29 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6523
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From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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Boy.... that's one mighty comprehensive post if I ever saw one around here. Whew.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: A Discussion of Lakeland Florida and Todd Bentley - 8/15/2008 8:54:00 AM
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dwtramm
Posts: 404
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I'm currently listening to Patricia King and what she has to say about Todd Bentley and the situation.
All I can say, she has no business speaking for the church.
It seemed to me that she basically threw Todd, and those who recognized this ministry as not really from God or God honoring, under the bus as it were.
She didn't say anything about inspecting the fruit of revivalistic fervour to see perhaps with the hype comes a lack of respect for the person and the holiness of God.
No, when people, using the Word to rightly judge the fruit of the movement, stand up and declare something is wrong, she calls it curses and basically said it was because of this, that help precipitate Todd's failure.
I do agree with her about one thing, we should pray for Todd and Shonnah. But I would also add, we should also pray for those who like them are into this hyped up type of movements that God would open their eyes to His truth, and they would repent.
And yes, that includes Patricia King.
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RE: A Discussion of Lakeland Florida and Todd Bentley - 8/16/2008 9:57:22 AM
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dwtramm
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A little more information has been given out concerning Todd and his separation from his wife from Fresh Fire ministries.
quote:
We wish to thank all of our friends and partners for the overwhelming flood of support and compassion we have received as a ministry on behalf of Todd and Shonnah Bentley. The many phone calls and emails of concern from people who genuinely love the Bentleys and Fresh Fire Ministries have been a great encouragement to all of us here during these past few days. In particular, the rallying of support and prayer for Todd and Shonnah by prominent leaders within the Body of Christ has been a beautiful indicator of the maturity and grace the Lord is bringing to his Bride.
We wish to acknowledge, however, that since our last statement from the Fresh Fire Board of Directors, we have discovered new information revealing that Todd Bentley has entered into an unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff. In light of this new information and in consultation with his leaders and advisors, Todd Bentley has agreed to step down from his position on the Board of Directors and to refrain from all public ministry for a season to receive counsel in his personal life.
On behalf of the Fresh Fire leadership and the Board of Directors we wish to apologize to our friends and partners and to the larger body of Christ and to ask for your forgiveness. We are truly sorry for the pain many of you must feel and so regret that in the midst of great revival, the enemy has found a way into our camp. To those who have stood by us, we wish to thank you for what in many cases has been years of support. Thank you for your financial giving towards the vision of this ministry, and thank you especially for your prayers. For those of our partners, friends and supporters who may be struggling with the recent disclosures and finding continued support of this ministry in conflict with either conscience or conviction, we release and bless you with all our hearts and trust that God will redeem in your hearts the good that He has accomplished in your lives through this ministry. It is our sincerest hope and prayer that the Lord bless you and bring you into your fullest destiny in Him.
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RE: A Discussion of Lakeland Florida and Todd Bentley - 8/16/2008 1:43:44 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2646
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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another leader that was full of himself rather than the Holy Spirit,
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/16/2008 2:18:37 PM
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OldSchoolBeliever
Posts: 18
Joined: 7/21/2008
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Let's be honest. This is yet another negative perception on the general public's and non evangelical Churchworld's view on Pentecostal Christians. What I say may sound harsh but the charasmatics have hurt the Pentecostal movement. When the general public thinks Pentecostal they automatically think charasmatic. And frankly I'm weary of that notion. Real Pentecostals live according to Biblical truths and statndards. Charasmatics want to have the gifts of the Spirit but they are not willing to pay the price by denying themselves and living a clean Godly sanctified life. When I saw videos of Bentleys revival this theme kept appearing in my thoughts. You had hundreds and hundreds of young people who were nieve or ignorant to the Biblical truth that in order to have the real genuine power of God that you have to be living a Godly life. And it made me sad watching the Lakeland videos to realize that these young people were being led astray. As far as Bentley, what a testimony it would be if he repented and started preaching the true Gospel. Folks, there is a mighty annointing and power of the Holy Ghost as you all know. And God can definately raise the dead and heal the sick and lame and halt. But it takes living Holy lives until the Lord. And this Bentley revival is just another example of the fact that one cannot bypass sanctification or living in adherance to the Bible if they genuinely want to see a real move of God. I know the Lakeland revival did a lot of harm but I hope Bentley repents and I wish him well but not his apostate ministry.
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/16/2008 3:32:05 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 1719
Joined: 6/16/2008
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quote:
Let's be honest. This is yet another negative perception on the general public's and non evangelical Churchworld's view on Pentecostal Christians. What I say may sound harsh but the charasmatics have hurt the Pentecostal movement. When the general public thinks Pentecostal they automatically think charasmatic. And frankly I'm weary of that notion. Real Pentecostals live according to Biblical truths and statndards. Charasmatics want to have the gifts of the Spirit but they are not willing to pay the price by denying themselves and living a clean Godly sanctified life.
Yes, I'm sure that is exactly how God sees it.
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/16/2008 3:48:49 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 744
Status: offline
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yes, we all know that methodists, presbyterians, baptists ETC are never guilty of moral failure. 
REAL christians are never guilty of moral failure? that's not biblical. we are to correct our brother's in sin remembering that we too are capable of falling.
negative generalizations of whole groups of christians are harmful to the body of Christ, not helpful.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/16/2008 3:51:51 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 529
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OldSchoolBeliever
Let's be honest. This is yet another negative perception on the general public's and non evangelical Churchworld's view on Pentecostal Christians. What I say may sound harsh but the charismatics have hurt the Pentecostal movement. When the general public thinks Pentecostal they automatically think charismatic. And frankly I'm weary of that notion. Real Pentecostals live according to Biblical truths and standards. Charismatics want to have the gifts of the Spirit but they are not willing to pay the price by denying themselves and living a clean Godly sanctified life. When I saw videos of Bentleys revival this theme kept appearing in my thoughts. You had hundreds and hundreds of young people who were naive or ignorant to the Biblical truth that in order to have the real genuine power of God that you have to be living a Godly life. And it made me sad watching the Lakeland videos to realize that these young people were being led astray. As far as Bentley, what a testimony it would be if he repented and started preaching the true Gospel. Folks, there is a mighty anointing and power of the Holy Ghost as you all know. And God can definitely raise the dead and heal the sick and lame and halt. But it takes living Holy lives until the Lord. And this Bentley revival is just another example of the fact that one cannot bypass sanctification or living in adherence to the Bible if they genuinely want to see a real move of God. I know the Lakeland revival did a lot of harm but I hope Bentley repents and I wish him well but not his apostate ministry.
I'm sorry but I think this is a bit of an over-generalization. I for one would consider myself charismatic but I am not like you describe above.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/16/2008 3:52:12 PM
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lw9
Posts: 962
Joined: 7/22/2005
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I haven't seen this news posted yet, so here goes:
quote:
http://www.freshfire.ca/
August 15, 2008
From the Board of Directors
We wish to acknowledge, however, that since our last statement from the Fresh Fire Board of Directors, we have discovered new information revealing that Todd Bentley has entered into an unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff. In light of this new information and in consultation with his leaders and advisors, Todd Bentley has agreed to step down from his position on the Board of Directors and to refrain from all public ministry for a season to receive counsel in his personal life.
On behalf of the Fresh Fire leadership and the Board of Directors we wish to apologize to our friends and partners and to the larger body of Christ and to ask for your forgiveness. We are truly sorry for the pain many of you must feel and so regret that in the midst of great revival, the enemy has found a way into our camp. To those who have stood by us, we wish to thank you for what in many cases has been years of support. Thank you for your financial giving towards the vision of this ministry, and thank you especially for your prayers. For those of our partners, friends and supporters who may be struggling with the recent disclosures and finding continued support of this ministry in conflict with either conscience or conviction, we release and bless you with all our hearts and trust that God will redeem in your hearts the good that He has accomplished in your lives through this ministry. It is our sincerest hope and prayer that the Lord bless you and bring you into your fullest destiny in Him.
While Todd and Shonnah each go through the necessary steps towards restoration and wholeness, we are compelled, with the resources with which God has entrusted us, to continue to spread God’s love and power all over the world.
If those who willingly partnered with and supported Todd Bentley at FFM had cared about God's word more than they cared about the excitement, the 'signs and wonders', the power trips to heaven, and the attention, they would not be in their current position of having to apologize and smooth things over. As it stands, they STILL do not have a clue as to who Todd *really* is and just how biblically unsound and in error their ministry is. Instead, they want to restore 'Brother Todd' to his self-glorified position and prop him right back up.
DISGUSTING.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 8/16/2008 3:58:59 PM >
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/16/2008 4:32:09 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6523
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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That is indeed very troublesome - they want to restore false teachings, false claims and practices once only seen in the occult.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/16/2008 5:11:14 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 529
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
That is indeed very troublesome - they want to restore false teachings, false claims and practices once only seen in the occult.
Well we would hope that they want to restore him if he repents and turns to God.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/16/2008 6:00:16 PM
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OldSchoolBeliever
Posts: 18
Joined: 7/21/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
I haven't seen this news posted yet, so here goes:
quote:
http://www.freshfire.ca/
August 15, 2008
From the Board of Directors
We wish to acknowledge, however, that since our last statement from the Fresh Fire Board of Directors, we have discovered new information revealing that Todd Bentley has entered into an unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff. In light of this new information and in consultation with his leaders and advisors, Todd Bentley has agreed to step down from his position on the Board of Directors and to refrain from all public ministry for a season to receive counsel in his personal life.
On behalf of the Fresh Fire leadership and the Board of Directors we wish to apologize to our friends and partners and to the larger body of Christ and to ask for your forgiveness. We are truly sorry for the pain many of you must feel and so regret that in the midst of great revival, the enemy has found a way into our camp. To those who have stood by us, we wish to thank you for what in many cases has been years of support. Thank you for your financial giving towards the vision of this ministry, and thank you especially for your prayers. For those of our partners, friends and supporters who may be struggling with the recent disclosures and finding continued support of this ministry in conflict with either conscience or conviction, we release and bless you with all our hearts and trust that God will redeem in your hearts the good that He has accomplished in your lives through this ministry. It is our sincerest hope and prayer that the Lord bless you and bring you into your fullest destiny in Him.
While Todd and Shonnah each go through the necessary steps towards restoration and wholeness, we are compelled, with the resources with which God has entrusted us, to continue to spread God’s love and power all over the world.
If those who willingly partnered with and supported Todd Bentley at FFM had cared about God's word more than they cared about the excitement, the 'signs and wonders', the power trips to heaven, and the attention, they would not be in their current position of having to apologize and smooth things over. As it stands, they STILL do not have a clue as to who Todd *really* is and just how biblically unsound and in error their ministry is. Instead, they want to restore 'Brother Todd' to his self-glorified position and prop him right back up.
DISGUSTING.
Agreed very much . We live in a day and age of apostacy where people as a whole believe that anything that has the name of Jesus connected to it must be allright in so many minds of these false preachers. Either they are reprobate concerning God's Holy Word, lack discernment or just plain don't care as long as multitudes flock to their events. Frankly, I think it is a combination that they can no longer discern because they are reprobate concerning the Kingdom of God and huge multitudes must mean that it is a move or sign that it is of of God to them.
Unfortunately New Age beliefs have infiltrated Pentecost and the devil is sitting back laughing. The devil is a master of counterfeit and he probably likes nothing better than to make a mockery of Pentecost and the videos of Lakeland show that.
Jesus alluded to that an evil and adulterous generation seekth after a sign and Lakeland was a perfect example of that. Lakeland was all about supposed signs and wonders instead of about preaching God's Holy Word. It is not that miracles and healings are in of themselves bad because miracles and healings are very much part of God's Holy Word. The problem is that miracles and healings come as a result of fasting, prayerful and sanctified lives.
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/16/2008 7:04:17 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6523
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
That is indeed very troublesome - they want to restore false teachings, false claims and practices once only seen in the occult.
Well we would hope that they want to restore him if he repents and turns to God.
That wouldn't really be restoring - but I understand what you're saying.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/17/2008 4:46:43 PM
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vja4Him
Posts: 49
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
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I've had thet same concern .... that Todd Bentley may simply come back with the same force, and proclaiming the same false teachings ....
-- vja4Him
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
I haven't seen this news posted yet, so here goes:
quote:
http://www.freshfire.ca/
August 15, 2008
From the Board of Directors
We wish to acknowledge, however, that since our last statement from the Fresh Fire Board of Directors, we have discovered new information revealing that Todd Bentley has entered into an unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff. In light of this new information and in consultation with his leaders and advisors, Todd Bentley has agreed to step down from his position on the Board of Directors and to refrain from all public ministry for a season to receive counsel in his personal life.
On behalf of the Fresh Fire leadership and the Board of Directors we wish to apologize to our friends and partners and to the larger body of Christ and to ask for your forgiveness. We are truly sorry for the pain many of you must feel and so regret that in the midst of great revival, the enemy has found a way into our camp. To those who have stood by us, we wish to thank you for what in many cases has been years of support. Thank you for your financial giving towards the vision of this ministry, and thank you especially for your prayers. For those of our partners, friends and supporters who may be struggling with the recent disclosures and finding continued support of this ministry in conflict with either conscience or conviction, we release and bless you with all our hearts and trust that God will redeem in your hearts the good that He has accomplished in your lives through this ministry. It is our sincerest hope and prayer that the Lord bless you and bring you into your fullest destiny in Him.
While Todd and Shonnah each go through the necessary steps towards restoration and wholeness, we are compelled, with the resources with which God has entrusted us, to continue to spread God’s love and power all over the world.
If those who willingly partnered with and supported Todd Bentley at FFM had cared about God's word more than they cared about the excitement, the 'signs and wonders', the power trips to heaven, and the attention, they would not be in their current position of having to apologize and smooth things over. As it stands, they STILL do not have a clue as to who Todd *really* is and just how biblically unsound and in error their ministry is. Instead, they want to restore 'Brother Todd' to his self-glorified position and prop him right back up.
DISGUSTING.
_____________________________
-- vja4Him
-- http://www.vjandrews.com/index.html
-- http://www.vjandrews.com/andrewsblog.html
-- http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/VernAndrews/Creation01.html
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/17/2008 8:56:16 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1435
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
If those who willingly partnered with and supported Todd Bentley at FFM had cared about God's word more than they cared about the excitement, the 'signs and wonders', the power trips to heaven, and the attention, they would not be in their current position of having to apologize and smooth things over. As it stands, they STILL do not have a clue as to who Todd *really* is and just how biblically unsound and in error their ministry is. Instead, they want to restore 'Brother Todd' to his self-glorified position and prop him right back up.
DISGUSTING.
lw9...You have to remember something. Those that supported, promoted, and appeared with him (Wagner, Ahn, King, Cain, Joyner, Sheets, etc) are just as biblically unsound. So they'll have no problem, once he gets over the marital issues, pushing him out there to biblically ignorant Christians again.
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/17/2008 9:02:28 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1435
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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There was an article in Charisma the other day from J. Lee Grady. One paragraph in it really struck me as compelling:
"A prominent Pentecostal evangelist called me this week after Bentley’s news hit the fan. He said to me: “I’m now convinced that a large segment of the charismatic church will follow the anti-Christ when he shows up because they have no discernment.” Ouch. Hopefully we’ll learn our lesson this time and apply the necessary caution when an imposter shows up."
As long as those in the Charismatic movement continue to follow the latest signs and wonders and experiences, rather than the Word of God, they will be ripe for frauds like Todd Bentley. Hey, they fell for Toronto, they fell for Brownsville, and now Lakeland.
How many more phony revivals will it take before someone gets a clue!
Remember...Those who stand for nothing, will fall for anything."
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/17/2008 9:08:29 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 529
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
There was an article in Charisma the other day from J. Lee Grady. One paragraph in it really struck me as compelling:
"A prominent Pentecostal evangelist called me this week after Bentley’s news hit the fan. He said to me: “I’m now convinced that a large segment of the charismatic church will follow the anti-Christ when he shows up because they have no discernment.” Ouch. Hopefully we’ll learn our lesson this time and apply the necessary caution when an imposter shows up."
As long as those in the Charismatic movement continue to follow the latest signs and wonders and experiences, rather than the Word of God, they will be ripe for frauds like Todd Bentley. Hey, they fell for Toronto, they fell for Brownsville, and now Lakeland.
How many more phony revivals will it take before someone gets a clue!
Remember...Those who stand for nothing, will fall for anything."
I have some close friends that kept saying watch Godtv some awesome stuff is on there. Talking about the Lakeland stuff. They seem to have no problem with that stuff. It's all about the signs, wonders, experiences, etc.
Also they have the apostle stuff going on too.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/17/2008 10:55:18 PM
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lw9
Posts: 962
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Soxfan: You have to remember something. Those that supported, promoted, and appeared with him (Wagner, Ahn, King, Cain, Joyner, Sheets, etc) are just as biblically unsound. So they'll have no problem, once he gets over the marital issues, pushing him out there to biblically ignorant Christians again.
Very true, but just for clarification I wasn't talking about Wagner and company. I was making an observation about the utterly useless and empty apology given specifically by the staff at Fresh Fire Ministries. They've proven that they have learned absolutely nothing from this lesson.
quote:
A prominent Pentecostal evangelist called me this week after Bentley’s news hit the fan. He said to me: “I’m now convinced that a large segment of the charismatic church will follow the anti-Christ when he shows up because they have no discernment.”
After observing the thousands upon thousands who flocked to Lakeland, I certainly can't disagree with that statment. Soxfan, do you have a link to that particular article??
< Message edited by lw9 -- 8/17/2008 11:03:54 PM >
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/17/2008 11:26:18 PM
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lw9
Posts: 962
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
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We can expect more Lakelands soon, I think. Here's Chuck Pierces' comments and excuses on the whole thing:
quote:
The thing we must remember is that God chose to use Todd to stir up the hunger in the Body of Christ. Therefore, as I prayed, the Lord took me to the life of Samson. He is a mystery. He had a Nazarite vow on his life, yet he had many character flaws. His character flaws did not stop God from using him. I think this is the biggest misunderstanding that the Body has when it comes to the anointing. That is why you see anointed men and women being used so mightily by the Lord, and then falling into sexual sin or monetary impropriety.
Again, Todd’s ministry allowed us all to see the hunger in the Body of Christ for miracles, healing and just a touch from God. Todd had flaws going into the time in which God chose to initiate his call and had not dealt with some of his problems. But God still chose to use him. Not only did his ministry reveal this hunger, but many have gotten saved. Now, hopefully, Todd will enter in the phase of being disciplined and establish his life in a new way so he can be qualified for use in the future.
It is indeed a hunger stirred up that desparately needs to be fed. Is it a righteous godly hunger? Don't ask, don't question, just FEED IT. And who is going to satiate the crowds? More Todd Bentleys, of course.
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/18/2008 12:00:03 AM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 529
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9We can expect more Lakelands soon, I think. Here's Chuck Pierces' comments and excuses on the whole thing:
quote:
The thing we must remember is that God chose to use Todd to stir up the hunger in the Body of Christ. Therefore, as I prayed, the Lord took me to the life of Samson. He is a mystery. He had a Nazarite vow on his life, yet he had many character flaws. His character flaws did not stop God from using him. I think this is the biggest misunderstanding that the Body has when it comes to the anointing. That is why you see anointed men and women being used so mightily by the Lord, and then falling into sexual sin or monetary impropriety.
Again, Todd’s ministry allowed us all to see the hunger in the Body of Christ for miracles, healing and just a touch from God. Todd had flaws going into the time in which God chose to initiate his call and had not dealt with some of his problems. But God still chose to use him. Not only did his ministry reveal this hunger, but many have gotten saved. Now, hopefully, Todd will enter in the phase of being disciplined and establish his life in a new way so he can be qualified for use in the future.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
It is indeed a hunger stirred up that desperately needs to be fed. Is it a righteous godly hunger? Don't ask, don't question, just FEED IT. And who is going to satiate the crowds? More Todd Bentleys, of course.
The fact of the matter is that the hunger isn't for God but for stuff. People want God to do stuff for them and perform like a stage magician. It sickens me to tell you the truth. Lw9 I agree with you so much. Is it a righteous godly hunger?
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Todd Bentely Perverted Messenger of Satan ... - 8/18/2008 1:03:28 AM
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peacebringer
Posts: 216
Joined: 5/20/2006
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Do we not have the Bread of Life that we should hunger no more? Why should any of us have a hunger for God?
No more hunger, no more thirst. Now we do have times where perhaps we are hungry or thirsty. Times of this we have gotten off the path and seeking our own kingdom, operating in sin. We perhaps have been led to the wilderness to be tested. Yet, we should always be aware that we need not hunger and thirst and when we do need to examine why.
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
http://www.peacebringer.net/phpBB3
True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
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