RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (Full Version)

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FurGodWurLivin -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/27/2009 6:43:02 PM)

And this is what I was referring to. All of this stuff is a powder keg that is waiting to explode with the slightest touch. In the real world, they move on from a topic eventually...
quote:

True, also, we really weren't arguing. We were just letting each other know what has happening in the world of Christendom.
So it was back-slapping and self-righteousness? Hoorah...
quote:

I can't recall ever really being combative in this thread; except in the case of someone coming in to say that Todd is some great preacher or something.
Which is horrible discussion etiquette. "We weren't combative until someone disagreed with us!" It would be pretty useless to be combative when everyone agrees, no? Thus, my point is proven.
quote:

So I suppose being accountable and warning unsuspecting people of false teachers is a waste of time in your theology..?

Sad...
Thus, the topic has shifted to me and is entirely a forgoing of the point. In debate that is called surrendering the point. (A) Is Todd Bently accountable to you? (B) Who says that those who have agreed with him are "unsuspecting" people in need of warning? I have problems with some of the things he says... I can't say that I fully agree with anybody else either. Se la vie...
quote:

Besides, where is the arguing? That would imply that someone here actually endorsed and supported this tool of satan and the frauds that are "restoring" him.
I thought we weren't being combative, sir......
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BTW, do you consider Paul, Peter, and the rest of the disciples "Ivory Tower theologians", for defending the Word of God by exposing false teachers?
What, men who physically walked with Jesus for 3.5 years and related all of their theology to everyday life after having (A) learned it directly from Jesus and (B) having lived through most of what they talked about? Absolutely not. However, I see a world of difference between those men and the people who love to discuss people like Todd Bently and rip them to shreds.
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Oh here we go.....Ivory Tower...no actually you have to get down and dirty to expose Satan.....
Solar, abstract philosophical discussion is what evangelicalism majors on. Hence the reference to being removed from the real people.
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I can ask the same question of the defenders of the lie. Remember, they are the ones who make it necessary for the defenders of the Truth to be involved in threads like this...so that others will not be led astray.
... because you have sat back and judged thoroughly objectively and have found that everything you disagree with is empirically a lie? Come on...
quote:

I vaguely remember you wasting a great deal of your time "arguing and getting bent out of shape" while you defended another false teacher/prophet in this folder.
And that is relevant how? I haven't been back to these forums for a year specifically because I was sick of all the arguing.

Adam



ironsharpensiron -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/27/2009 10:23:44 PM)

quote:

I haven't been back to these forums for a year specifically because I was sick of all the arguing.


And now you are starting one...how...fascinating...

I'm going to climb back into my 'Ivory Tower' now, and see what unfolds...[;)]

Matthew



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/28/2009 4:05:22 AM)

I started an argument? I asked if people realized/were disturbed by the fact that they have spent a year on this topic. At what point do we say, "you know, this horse has been beat into the ground and we need to find a new neck to sink our fangs into?" Feel smug if you like, but if nothing else, I'm learning just how futile these discussions really are.



stellaluna -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/28/2009 8:59:53 AM)

Well, it seemed like you were stirring the pot because this topic has pretty much been dead for awhile. There are tons of other threads that have been going on for years.



Soxfan -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/28/2009 9:09:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin

I started an argument? I asked if people realized/were disturbed by the fact that they have spent a year on this topic.


That's because the Todd Bentley story has been around that long

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At what point do we say, "you know, this horse has been beat into the ground


When Todd Bentley TRULY repents, denounces his false teaching and preaches the true and correct Word of God. Same goes for Joyner, Wagner, Cain and the rest of the false apostles and prophets that have supported him

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and we need to find a new neck to sink our fangs into?"


Very good! I like the "Twilight" reference. So timely. If Wagner and his NAR minions decide to release another sham on the Church, we WILL be ready

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Feel smug if you like, but if nothing else, I'm learning just how futile these discussions really are.


Is that becuase defending enemies of the cross and tools of satan is tough work?



sirwintery -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/28/2009 10:00:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin

Thus, the topic has shifted to me and is entirely a forgoing of the point. In debate that is called surrendering the point. (A) Is Todd Bently accountable to you? (B) Who says that those who have agreed with him are "unsuspecting" people in need of warning? I have problems with some of the things he says... I can't say that I fully agree with anybody else either. Se la vie...


You know, it's just about time for another "angel" to show up.

That's a good starting place to disagree with "the things he says". I wonder if the "restored" Bentley 2.0 will rely on William Branham's "angel" or if we'll hear a whole new spiel.



Lapidoth -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/28/2009 3:28:41 PM)

Wonder why there are 37 videos to Todd Bentley Restoration?

LINK

Comparing Todd to King David?

David repented, has Todd?

South Carolina



laura... -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/28/2009 3:33:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

Wonder why there are 37 videos to Todd Bentley Restoration?

LINK

Comparing Todd to King David?

David repented, has Todd?


It's a way to have Todd teaching under the guise of "restoration". There are 3 videos on "angelic assistance".



Lapidoth -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/28/2009 3:50:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laura...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

Wonder why there are 37 videos to Todd Bentley Restoration?

LINK

Comparing Todd to King David?

David repented, has Todd?


It's a way to have Todd teaching under the guise of "restoration". There are 3 videos on "angelic assistance".



I've always heard the snake can grow a new head...................

I pray God protect the unsuspecting of the new dangers.



ironsharpensiron -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/28/2009 5:01:52 PM)

quote:

I pray God protect the unsuspecting of the new dangers.


I'll second that for sure...Amen!!

Matthew



solarflare -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/28/2009 8:14:57 PM)

quote:

Solar, abstract philosophical discussion is what evangelicalism majors on. Hence the reference to being removed from the real people.



I don't do drugs.



sirwintery -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/29/2009 10:23:34 AM)

Yesterday I watched the video where Jessa tells her story.

Rick Joyner said some ministers would say not to use the example of David and Bathsheba. I guess what he was attempting to say was that a godly man in the Bible committed adultery and that God restored him. Todd's interjection was that he knows that he and Jessa will have something to deal with because of this, as David and Bathsheba lost a son.

However...

These issues came about after months of "angel" messages and phony healings and resurrections being claimed and all the other goofy stuff.

Is Todd being restored to _that_???

Todd and Jessa don't have to wait for something bad to happen because of the sin.

Something bad has already happened.

"Sheek-a-boom-ba".



Lapidoth -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/29/2009 11:41:38 AM)

I realize David had many short comings, but he was
"a man after God's own heart." I interpret that as
David searching for God's heart, not that God approved
of his actions.

David was quick to run to the tabernacle and repent.

None of this is in Todd's character.
And a lip repentance after the fact because you're caught
is not that same.

But as a false teacher, it doesn't matter how examples and
scripture itself is twisted to suit the event.



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/31/2009 1:04:45 AM)

quote:

That's because the Todd Bentley story has been around that long
Yeah, so has September 11, 2001, but have you noticed Michael Moore getting a ton of air-time to talk about how it was a Government conspiracy lately? Just like the debates over Christmas, Easter, and Halloween, we talk about it because we like to feel important, and not because the conversation actually accomplishes anything.
quote:

When Todd Bentley TRULY repents, denounces his false teaching and preaches the true and correct Word of God.
And you, sir, are the empirical judge of repentance and what is the true Word of God? And then claim that people like Todd Bentley have delusions of grandeur?
quote:

Very good! I like the "Twilight" reference. So timely. If Wagner and his NAR minions decide to release another sham on the Church, we WILL be ready
Actually, that wasn't intended to be a Twilight reference. But it shows just how much you are willing to allow your assumption rule your tongue... and for that I thank you. Have fun with the militarism... they say it adds to your blood pressure.
quote:

Is that because(sp) defending enemies of the cross and tools of Satan(sp) is tough work?
No, it is futile because nothing ever changes. Preacher (A) says something that the masses don't like, and the masses stand up to crucify the preacher. The ancient Hebrews did it to Rehoboam, the Romans did it to Caeser, the "Second Temple" Jews did it to Jesus, the Irish Protestants did it to the Catholics, the Lutherans did it to the Anabaptists, and modern Evangelicals do it to Charismatic preachers.
quote:

You know, it's just about time for another "angel" to show up.

That's a good starting place to disagree with "the things he says". I wonder if the "restored" Bentley 2.0 will rely on William Branham's "angel" or if we'll hear a whole new spiel.
Except here you aren't disagreeing with the things he says. Here, you are disagreeing with an incident that was delivered by self-report. Logically, unless you were there, you have no basis on which to reject the experience because it is a self-report of a contained incident. Not to be a wet-blanket, but you are arguing with something that you actually can't logically argue with. The doctrine that came from it? Sure... argue with that till you are blue in the face. But you cannot actually argue about the experience.

Like I say, I disagree with the man on a number of things. But I don't agree with anyone 100% that hasn't been dead for at least 1800 years.
quote:

I don't do drugs.
...and I never claimed that you did. Which makes me wonder why you thought that was a clever/appropriate clarification to make.

Adam



sirwintery -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (10/31/2009 3:06:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:

You know, it's just about time for another "angel" to show up.

That's a good starting place to disagree with "the things he says". I wonder if the "restored" Bentley 2.0 will rely on William Branham's "angel" or if we'll hear a whole new spiel.
Except here you aren't disagreeing with the things he says. Here, you are disagreeing with an incident that was delivered by self-report. Logically, unless you were there, you have no basis on which to reject the experience because it is a self-report of a contained incident. Not to be a wet-blanket, but you are arguing with something that you actually can't logically argue with. The doctrine that came from it? Sure... argue with that till you are blue in the face. But you cannot actually argue about the experience.



He didn't use sign language. That would be the "things he says" which I am disagreeing with. "Emma", etcetera.

What happened to your friend that you said was healed, if I am remembering that correctly?



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (11/2/2009 12:55:04 AM)

quote:

He didn't use sign language. That would be the "things he says" which I am disagreeing with. "Emma", etcetera.
Sign language... I am not connecting the dots with the reference.

My statement was that you cannot logically argue that the event in question didn't happen. You can argue with the doctrine or "revelation" that came from it. When someone like a Todd Bentley tells the story of the experience, you cannot validly question the existence of the experience because you have no logical platform to do so. On the other hand, the doctrine that is being propped up by the experience is fair game. As I have said, I disagree with Todd Bentley about a good many things as well... However, the disagreement does not warrant the amount of time, emotion, stress, and hatred that questions such as this bring up. The beautiful thing about topics such as this is that everyone is absolutely wrong, and almost everyone is a little bit right. However, that is a different discussion for a different time.

quote:

What happened to your friend that you said was healed, if I am remembering that correctly?
What do you mean, "what happened to" her? She went to the doctors after they came back from Florida, and all the doctors could do was scratch their heads and say that she wasn't sick any more. Their family is incredibly busy, so I haven't been able to keep up with them as much as I wish. But... that is also off-topic.

Adam



ironsharpensiron -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (11/2/2009 1:15:57 AM)

quote:

However, the disagreement does not warrant the amount of time, emotion, stress, and hatred that questions such as this bring up.


Hmmm, interesting statement; I do not suffer from a lot of emotion, stress, hatred by this thread...it would seem you do though. Anyone else suffer from these ailments while discussing on this particular thread..? And time...well, we're obviousely bored and have nothing too important to do if we are on these forums anyway, right..?

Through the course of this thread I have not seen any hatred, so not sure where you get that from; only concern for him, and the people that get sucked into his false teachings. Not sure what 'stress' you are talking about either; when I leave this thread I certainly don't lose any sleep over it by continually thinking about it. It does seem that you do thoug, which is sad.

And c'mon, really what you are saying here is that you can have your opinion(s) about ole Todd, but we cannot, right..? [;)]

Matthew



rawr.ben -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (11/2/2009 7:01:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin


My statement was that you cannot logically argue that the event in question didn't happen. You can argue with the doctrine or "revelation" that came from it. When someone like a Todd Bentley tells the story of the experience, you cannot validly question the existence of the experience because you have no logical platform to do so.


Well, we have the Word of God, and if his experiences are something that contradict the Scriptures, we can assume, then, that the experiences were not from God.



sirwintery -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (11/2/2009 9:46:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawr.ben

quote:

ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin


My statement was that you cannot logically argue that the event in question didn't happen. You can argue with the doctrine or "revelation" that came from it. When someone like a Todd Bentley tells the story of the experience, you cannot validly question the existence of the experience because you have no logical platform to do so.


Well, we have the Word of God, and if his experiences are something that contradict the Scriptures, we can assume, then, that the experiences were not from God.


Right, .ben.

Hey, especially when they try to draw credibility by associating themselves with a previous false teacher like William "I'm Elijah" Branham.



sirwintery -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (11/3/2009 11:37:43 AM)

Bentley became associated with the Joyner/Bickle/NAR crowd and Rick Joyner has been overseeing his "restoration".

Looking at previous Kansas City Prophets who fell into different types of sexual sin, Bob Jones and Paul Cain, we see that they are "back" and there can be little doubt that Todd will be, too. No need to ride the edge of your seat in suspense.

Here's a quote from J. Lee Grady, Charisma editor, from the article "Holding Paul Cain's Feet To The Fire" (LINK)...
quote:

Cain obviously needs our prayers, and I commend any leader who offers him help. But I have some advice for everyone involved: Love must be tough. Although we must have mercy for a broken individual, we must face the fact that Cain deceived the body of Christ, broke a trust and brought great shame on the ministry. Restoration in this case does not mean returning him to the pulpit.


A check of Paul Cain's website will show that he has returned and that he ministers "the first Wednesday of every month at Jubilee Church in Camarillo, CA", and has speaking engagements lined up for January.

So before we can ask, "What's different about Bentley's situation that he should return to a pulpit?", we can look at Jones and Cain and see that it doesn't matter anyway.

The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof? Jeremiah 5:31



Lapidoth -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (11/3/2009 12:19:55 PM)

An understanding or the writings of Jeremiah is very
beneficial in recognizing the modern false prophets/preachers.

We all knew it would just be a matter of time before Bentley
as those before him return to the same methods and messages.
When they get caught, they use christianese to deceive even the
elect.



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (11/5/2009 11:01:39 AM)

quote:

Hmmm, interesting statement; I do not suffer from a lot of emotion, stress, hatred by this thread...it would seem you do though. Anyone else suffer from these ailments while discussing on this particular thread..? And time...well, we're obviousely bored and have nothing too important to do if we are on these forums anyway, right..?

Through the course of this thread I have not seen any hatred, so not sure where you get that from; only concern for him, and the people that get sucked into his false teachings. Not sure what 'stress' you are talking about either; when I leave this thread I certainly don't lose any sleep over it by continually thinking about it. It does seem that you do thoug, which is sad.

And c'mon, really what you are saying here is that you can have your opinion(s) about ole Todd, but we cannot, right..?
First, worry is an emotion. There is no such thing as objective "concern" because human beings are not objective creatures.

Secondly, I lose no sleep over discussions like this. I do however, feel the groan that the church is thus far incapable of treating one another in love. Too cap it off, that groan is just as much emotional as it is spiritual, and I don't care.

Thirdly, hatred takes a good many forms, and one of the greatest is rejection. I have seen people on this thread (and others like it) referred to as "tools of satan", "deceived", and a host of other titles like them. If the people declaring those titles truly believe them, it is because they have rejected the person whom they are ascribing that title to. So yes, the term "hatred" does, in fact, apply.

Fourthly, the notion of spending free time discussing this topic for months on end "because we are bored" is exactly why I made the "ivory tower" reference earlier that made people so huffy. When you are sitting far removed from the situation and making broad, philosophical conclusions about it, that is the definition of an ideological "ivory tower"

Lastly, I care not if people have opinions about Todd Bentley. As I have said numerous times, I have my share of them. However, people take their opinions and postulate them as the opinion of God (hence, "false" teachers/prophets, tool(s) of Satan)... and that is where the real problem in these discussions lies. That is also why when I have a disagreement with someone like Todd Bentley, I take pains to say that I disagree with them for such and such a reason, and refrain from ascribing titles such as those already mentioned.
quote:

Well, we have the Word of God, and if his experiences are something that contradict the Scriptures, we can assume, then, that the experiences were not from God.
As true as that statement is, it does not address the statement that you quoted. I said that the experiences themselves cannot logically be contradicted, but the revelation or doctrine can be. That is why when discussions such as this come up, I find it so grievously disheartening that the modern minds of Evangelicalism are incapable of keeping the discussion centered on doctrines and ideas, and must necessarily jump into deciding who is and is not part of the body of Christ. As is shown heartily in statements such as:
quote:

An understanding or the writings of Jeremiah is very
beneficial in recognizing the modern false prophets/preachers.

We all knew it would just be a matter of time before Bentley
as those before him return to the same methods and messages.
When they get caught, they use christianese to deceive even the
elect.
I rest my case.

Adam



lw9 -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (11/7/2009 12:45:48 PM)

quote:

ironsharpensiron: I do not suffer from a lot of emotion, stress, hatred by this thread...it would seem you do though. Anyone else suffer from these ailments while discussing on this particular thread..?


Nope.



rawr.ben -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (11/7/2009 1:09:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lw9

quote:

ironsharpensiron: I do not suffer from a lot of emotion, stress, hatred by this thread...it would seem you do though. Anyone else suffer from these ailments while discussing on this particular thread..?


Nope.


I suffer heartbreak at times.



rlj -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (11/7/2009 1:18:48 PM)

I'm sure Shonnah is teaching her kids to "follow dad like he follows Christ". [8|]

I am thoroughly amazed but shouldn't be at how these "restorations" never seem to involve the spouse who got trampled under other than to get her word that "he's ready to go!".



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